Trump Presidency Round 2

[ChunkyParrot]

Everyone who is here illegally is involved in criminal behavior. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

"Our government is dumb and slow and wasteful and stupid" - "Why can't these illegals just follow the government's process"

"These are shithole countries" - "Stay in your country, don't try to make a life here"

 

[BuaConstrictor]

It was the previous administration that redefined it.

No. It was two administrations ago that came up with DACA re: to the section I bolded.

We're simply going back to what it has been for over a hundred years.

That's not even correct. Between 1924 and DACA there have been a large number of immigration bills and acts that changed and morphed what illegal and legal immigration was....there we detainment/deportation acts in the 1930s that resulted in legal US citizens being deported.

Why is the re-definition in 1924 any more valid than previous definitions? Immigration in this country has evolved countless times in our history. It's arbitrary as to when we want to define the law as we want it.

Why would legal immigrants feel unsafe?

I posted a link to a story that describes why.....and I literally laid out why people who are legally here now may feel unsafe.

More specifically..
Part of my job has me working with legal immigrants. Here on all kinds of visas, under different acts, etc. While a lot of the big ticket EOs target traditional illegal immigration as most know it, there have been quite a few others that take aim and stricter scrutiny of legal visa holders and post-entry scrutiny of their activities while here. There have been no real guidelines set as far as what that scrutiny looks like and what enforcement targets they are looking at. There are a lot of legal immigrants here who have no idea what to expect from one day to the next in regards to their visa status based on at this point vague and mostly unknown parameters around post-immigration scrutiny/check.

 

[TorontoGold]

Gotta love IE MAGA embracing the sig heil. I want to see if anyone here will upload a video of themselves doing the salute? Surely they'd do it because it's not an issue.

 

[RDU Irish]

Did I say they were not?

Most times when discussing the topic the people that most Americans want deported aren't the illegal immigrants that have come here and are working menial hourly work but they are worried about the illegal immigrants here who are involved in additional illegal activity once here.

Besides that, you have the current government morphing and changing what the term "illegal" even means. People here legally under DACA are being referred to as "illegal" by some on this administration...and they are actively trying to get it overturned so they are illegal.

More broadly, if your position is to deport every illegal immigrant from the US regardless of what they have or haven't done since coming to the US, good luck with that. I think conditional amnesty with a pathway to citizenship(which needs to be overhauled anyways) is a more viable solution and one that would serve to perhaps not crash certain sectors in the economy.

All that being said...my biggest takeaway with the recent conversation is still:
"
the bigger more philosophical thing that we need to be looking at is the tone, tenor, and stance we have taken as a country that makes even legal immigrants not feel welcomed or safe here. Attitude reflects leadership....

"

You directly state the legal immigrants do not feel safe to obfuscate the conversation on people illegally in our country. GTFO if you are not here legally and get in fucking line. I find it horribly disrespectful to those that have navigated the process legally to just throw your hands up and say those that jumped the fence should not just be allowed to stay but BE GRANTED CITIZENSHIP. What the hell is wrong with permanent resident status that folks like you are so quick to jump to full citizenship for people who enter this country illegally?

Our immigration policy sucks and has sucked for a long time - I am all for a big wide door allowing wide ranges of people the opportunities our country provides and it shouldn't take 15 years to navigate it. Easily 5x the current numbers but there should also be a massive focus on work visas. Hand work visas out like candy, not everyone wants or cares to be a US citizen.

DACA is also an abomination of not only failure to enforce our borders but enticing people to break the law for the gift of citizenship. Fixing that isn't going to be pretty. I'd start with allowing permanent residence to the adults and the youth can go home with mom and/or dad. Tough but fair.

 

[ChunkyParrot]

Why would legal immigrants feel unsafe? I have a gentleman that works for me. Born and spent the majority of his life in Mexico. We've talked about this topic. He came through legally and is not afraid of getting deported. He prefers everyone enter through the proper channels.

I'm glad your friend feels safe.

I don't begrudge any immigrant, legal or otherwise, from feeling unsafe in America today both because the current administration seems increasingly capricious, and because all it takes is one unstable person to think "that person looks like one of those rapist migrants" for something to go wrong.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

You directly state the legal immigrants do not feel safe to obfuscate the conversation on people illegally in our country.

Nope. I've been openly discussing both groups. I'm not obfuscating anything.

What the hell is wrong with permanent resident status that folks like you are so quick to jump to full citizenship for people who enter this country illegally?

You do understand that as part of a "pathway to citizenship" permanent resident status is part of that pathway, right? In terms of what is wrong with permanent resident status? Depending on what aspect of it you are looking at...quite a bit. Again, the pathway to citizenship in this country is an absolute mess/nightmare. It has been for a LONG time. The average length of time it took a PR to become a US citizen last year was around 8 years. That's three years past when you are even eligible as a PR.

No one was "jumping" to anything. I'd suggest slowing down and reading

I am all for a big wide door allowing wide ranges of people the opportunities our country provides and it shouldn't take 15 years to navigate it.

Good to know you vehemently disagree with Trump on this topic.

Hand work visas out like candy, not everyone wants or cares to be a US citizen.

The economically smart thing to do would be to make them citizens at that point or put them on an efficient pathway to it....

DACA is also an abomination of not only failure to enforce our borders but enticing people to break the law for the gift of citizenship. Fixing that isn't going to be pretty. I'd start with allowing permanent residence to the adults and the youth can go home with mom and/or dad. Tough but fair.

I'm not sure you fully understand DACA. The parents weren't granted citizenship, in fact..many were deported. Hell, there isn't even a pathway to citizenship right now for DACA recipients themselves. There is no "gift" of citizenship waiting for them. They can't even become PRs.

 

[RDU Irish]

I'm glad your friend feels safe.

I don't begrudge any immigrant, legal or otherwise, from feeling unsafe in America today both because the current administration seems increasingly capricious, and because all it takes is one unstable person to think "that person looks like one of those rapist migrants" for something to go wrong.

Great point - If I look like a rapist migrant I would especially want all the rapist migrants (note migrant being beta for ILLEGAL ALIEN) deported so that people had no valid reason for fearing rapist migrants anymore. Yet again - policy ends up helping the demographic race baiters claim to be oppressed by said policy.

 

[RDU Irish]

Nope. I've been openly discussing both groups. I'm not obfuscating anything.

You do understand that as part of a "pathway to citizenship" permanent resident status is part of that pathway, right? In terms of what is wrong with permanent resident status? Depending on what aspect of it you are looking at...quite a bit. Again, the pathway to citizenship in this country is an absolute mess/nightmare. It has been for a LONG time. The average length of time it took a PR to become a US citizen last year was around 8 years. That's three years past when you are even eligible as a PR.

No one was "jumping" to anything. I'd suggest slowing down and reading

Good to know you vehemently disagree with Trump on this topic.

The economically smart thing to do would be to make them citizens at that point or put them on an efficient pathway to it....


I'm not sure you fully understand DACA. The parents weren't granted citizenship, in fact..many were deported. Hell, there isn't even a pathway to citizenship right now for DACA recipients themselves. There is no "gift" of citizenship waiting for them. They can't even become PRs.

My bad - I thought Daca was kids born here of illegals. In that case - send them back where they came from and they can get in line. Bleeding hearts got us in this mess - maybe they can stop clutching pearls long enough to enact real reform for once if it gets ugly enough.

Pretty much doesn't matter what I think - just happy the odds my daughter is killed while going for a jog have gone down substantially the last three weeks.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

I thought Daca was kids born here of illegals.

....Good to know you have very strong feelings on things you know nothing about.

enact real reform for once if it gets ugly enough.

There was literally a border bill less than a year ago that would have done so. Biden also narrowed asylum opportunities prior to that.

just happy the odds my daughter is killed while going for a jog have gone down substantially the last three weeks.

They really haven't.
1. Biden was deporting illegal immigrants at the highest rate in history last year. He was doing so at a higher rate than any time during Trump's presidency
2. Illegal and legal immigrants have a lower violent crime rate than US Citizens and documented immigrants.
3. If you're referring to the Mollie Tibbits case...her own family would reject your statements...and they have done so publicly and after her daughter's death still chose to house illegal immigrants.

 

[ChunkyParrot]

Great point - If I look like a rapist migrant I would especially want all the rapist migrants (note migrant being beta for ILLEGAL ALIEN) deported so that people had no valid reason for fearing rapist migrants anymore. Yet again - policy ends up helping the demographic race baiters claim to be oppressed by said policy.

Oh wow, glad to see you're operating based on facts and grounded in reality.

My bad - I thought Daca was kids born here of illegals. In that case - send them back where they came from and they can get in line. Bleeding hearts got us in this mess - maybe they can stop clutching pearls long enough to enact real reform for once if it gets ugly enough.

Pretty much doesn't matter what I think - just happy the odds my daughter is killed while going for a jog have gone down substantially the last three weeks.

Did she move into a location with more immigrants? What data we have indicates illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than both legal immigrants and U.S. born citizens.

[Link] Analysis of Texas Dep of Public Safety data

[Link] Meta-analysis and a broader data set

 

[RDU Irish]

Oh wow, glad to see you're operating based on facts and grounded in reality.


Did she move into a location with more immigrants? What data we have indicates illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than both legal immigrants and U.S. born citizens.

[Link] Analysis of Texas Dep of Public Safety data

[Link] Meta-analysis and a broader data set

Just so happens - deporting criminals makes more room in jails for the home grown variety. Just so happens I am anti-violent crime too.

 

[Blazers46]

Gotta love IE MAGA embracing the sig heil. I want to see if anyone here will upload a video of themselves doing the salute? Surely they'd do it because it's not an issue.

I’m glad people like you still exist, the moral superior left that won Trump 2024! Have I thanked you and your idiotic band faux outragers lately? Thanks again for 2024! Keep up the hard work and we take 2028 without breaking a sweat.

 

[Blazers46]

Oh wow, glad to see you're operating based on facts and grounded in reality.


Did she move into a location with more immigrants? What data we have indicates illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than both legal immigrants and U.S. born citizens.

[Link] Analysis of Texas Dep of Public Safety data

[Link] Meta-analysis and a broader data set

To be fair being in the country illegally is a crime… my source is the law and our DHS Secretary. So the rate of crimes committed by illegals i can safely guesstimate to be over 100%

 

[TorontoGold]

I’m glad people like you still exist, the moral superior left that won Trump 2024! Have I thanked you and your idiotic band faux outragers lately? Thanks again for 2024! Keep up the hard work and we take 2028 without breaking a sweat.

lmao I love how that's your response to Steve Bannon doing the sig heil at CPAC.

Idk maybe seeing the sig heil would elicit a strong response. But yeah everyone else is faux outraging, while the mensa society tries to figure out how much they want to hang Obama and Clinton for the 2016 election

 

[Blazers46]

lmao I love how that's your response to Steve Bannon doing the sig heil at CPAC.

Idk maybe seeing the sig heil would elicit a strong response. But yeah everyone else is faux outraging, while the mensa society tries to figure out how much they want to hang Obama and Clinton for the 2016 election

Yes, love your energy. You’re selling it well.

 

[ab2cmiller]

lmao I love how that's your response to Steve Bannon doing the sig heil at CPAC.

Idk maybe seeing the sig heil would elicit a strong response. But yeah everyone else is faux outraging, while the mensa society tries to figure out how much they want to hang Obama and Clinton for the 2016 election

I frankly have no idea what to make of Musk's and Bannon's "salutes". Musk's movements are just a bit odd. I think he is probably on the autism spectrum someplace. I didn't think much of it.

Bannon is just a wacko. He could be a Nazi. He could be someone who's looking for attention or trying to provoke some kind of over reaction. He is always stirring shit up.

 

[Greenore]

A little levity...

One of my left-leaning friends sent me this text this morning. Initially I was a bit reluctant to read it but I'm so happy I did!
______________________________________________________________________
"With all the political discord between the US and Canada, I've been thinking about some of the USA's most egregious errors, like wealth disparity, lack of comprehensive healthcare, propensity to elect self-serving pompous buffoons. But, here is the biggest USA error... leaving Connor McDavid alone in the slot in overtime."
__________________________________________________________________________

I hope you all get as much of a laugh as I did. Great game last night and Boston was far more classy than the previous fans in Montreal. Four great countries and one great game!

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[TorontoGold]

Yes, love your energy. You’re selling it well.

I hope a Trump like figure wins every GOP primary till the end of time. He's not competent enough to do actual meaningfully bad conversative policies. You've got Trump focusing on the dumbest domestic issues for the dumbest people, I'd rather him toss out stupid small wins to yokels than actual conservative policies.

 

[TorontoGold]

I frankly have no idea what to make of Musk's and Bannon's "salutes". Musk's movements are just a bit odd. I think he is probably on the autism spectrum someplace. I didn't think much of it.

Bannon is just a wacko. He could be a Nazi. He could be someone who's looking for attention or trying to provoke some kind of over reaction. He is always stirring shit up.

I don't think Musk is nazi.

Bannon is very much part of the alt right white nationalist movement. I don't think it's very hard to see why he would do it.

 

[drayer54]

Wading through the vast amounts of typos in here...I'll do the best I can.

You don't need to annex Canada and Panama to have security in those places. Frankly, the security bogeyman he has imagined re: China, didn't exist there to begin with. This wasn't something that happened under the "previous" Administration. The Hong King based company had ports in the canal for over two decades. You're not accurate in your assertion.


Boiling the border bill down to simply being about reducing encounters is counterfactual. It was part of a larger comprehensive plan for longer term border security and immigration management that sought to address the root causes of the crisis.

What a crazy novel-
Are you one of the nine staffers fired from The View, because this looks in line with their ideological insane nonsense?

Ethnic cleansing? Tell me you're an insane lib without telling me you're an insane lib. Defense of the NGO complex? Should we keep the USAID waste? Are they immune to accountability? Why don't you send your money to trans sex workers and cut it out for the rest of us?

Good news- the constitutional cleaning-up will continue!


The list goes on. Oh, and complaining about typos while googling about Hong King?

There's no serious discussion to be had on the border if we are going to pretend that the border bill held up securing the border and this is not unemployment numbers being manipulated for an election like the Biden BLS did.

I also wish the Democrats looked like 90s Bill Clinton, but they have moved a mile to the left. That was back when they recognized immigration was a crime, welfare was out of control and had some common sense. Also, quit trying to Daily Show me and assign me political opinions. Are you 12? I love your confidence in this bullshit to the extent that you don't think anyone who understands the issues knows anything. Serious Jen Rubin vibes.

 

[Blazers46]

I don't think Musk is nazi.

Bannon is very much part of the alt right white nationalist movement. I don't think it's very hard to see why he would do it.

And yet you’re the only one noticing and giving it attention. Keep going, you will take us to victory in 2028. Nobody will thank you for giving Bannon air time or a share.

 

[TorontoGold]

And yet you’re the only one noticing and giving it attention. Keep going, you will take us to victory in 2028. Nobody will thank you for giving Bannon air time or a share.

Gulp who's going to tell him that 3 of IE MAGA reacted to it? And he's responding to the conversation, thus giving it more attention.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Ethnic cleansing? Tell me you're an insane lib without telling me you're an insane lib.

Yes. Ethnic cleansing. Moving (forcing) Palestinians out of Gaza and forcing them into countries just so they no longer exist in Gaza is by definition the ethnic cleansing of them out of Gaza.

Should we keep the USAID waste? Are they immune to accountability?

I'm convinced you didn't read a word I wrote because I very specifically addressed both of these things in my post. Read it again. Try again.

There's no serious discussion to be had on the border if we are going to pretend that the border bill held up securing the border

I'm not sure if you're having a psychotic break or not...if you are...seek help. Of course, the lack of a border bill can hold up securing the border. One can secure the border without a bill as well....as Biden did multiple times during his presidency. Twice in 2024. Those tend to be bandaids on bullet wounds..or at the very least..short-term fixes. Any long-term comprehensive plan needs to be done via legislation though given the amount of funding and staffing that is required...which is what I was addressing and talking about...as the border bill wasn't simply about "securing the border". There was more to it.

unemployment numbers being manipulated for an election like the Biden BLS did.

You mean the same number Trump immediately started using when he entered office?..and continues to use to this day?..nice try at deflection from Trump's manipulation though. If Biden's manipulation was bad/wrong, then so is Trump's. I'm fine stipulating to that.

Also, quit trying to Daily Show me and assign me political opinions.

It's pretty easy with your opinions being as transparent as they are.

Are you 12?

No....but you seem to be.

I love your confidence in this bullshit to the extent that you don't think anyone who understands the issues knows anything.

It's pretty clear that you (and most Trump voters) don't know or understand anything at all. Jen Rubin is far more right than she is wrong. Your post pretty much proves it.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

I don't think Musk is nazi.

Bannon is very much part of the alt right white nationalist movement. I don't think it's very hard to see why he would do it.

Bannon is definitely a nazi.

Musk, as best I can tell, is just a white supremacist and opportunist at this point. I don't think he has the capacity for political thought that would make him a nazi.

 

[ulukinatme]

Gotta love IE MAGA embracing the sig heil. I want to see if anyone here will upload a video of themselves doing the salute? Surely they'd do it because it's not an issue.

I can't stand Steve Bannon, but if that was a Nazi salute it was the weakest in the history of Nazi salutes. It was pretty slow and immediately withdrawn, not forceful to illicit power. You guys really have Nazis on the brain. Were you one of the ones that fell for the Elon salute too? I can't remember. Come back to 2025, join us in reality.

It's no more a Nazi salute than these are:

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I can't stand Steve Bannon, but if that was a Nazi salute it was the weakest in the history of Nazi salutes. It was pretty slow and immediately withdrawn, not forceful to illicit power. You guys really have Nazis on the brain. Were you one of the ones that fell for the Elon salute too? I can't remember. Come back to 2025, join us in reality.

It's no more a Nazi salute than these are:

Not saying what's worse or what's not as bad but fresh reminder for everyone that Hillary called half the country deplorable and Obama called for fundamental transformation of our country.

Steve Bannon isn't a gov employee and Musk is one of the smartest guys in the country who was brought in to get rid of wasteful spending. They weren't sitting US presidents or secretary of state.

 

[TorontoGold]

I can't stand Steve Bannon, but if that was a Nazi salute it was the weakest in the history of Nazi salutes. It was pretty slow and immediately withdrawn, not forceful to illicit power. You guys really have Nazis on the brain. Were you one of the ones that fell for the Elon salute too? I can't remember. Come back to 2025, join us in reality.

It's no more a Nazi salute than these are:

Not a Steve Bannon guy, but boy howdy I'm going try to defend him.

lmao I too love incredibly pixelated posts that don't contain the context behind them and that are from already proven screenshots. You got to wonder why these are screenshots and not videos? Why lump Elon in with Bannon? I already stated I don't think he's a Nazi.

Nick Fuentes is saying Bannon is too Nazi for him lmao it's not "da libz" saying he's doing a sig heil the Nazi's are. Oh, and the leader of the alt right party of France backed out because of the salute. Seems to be a big tent of people saying what he did was wrong, but MAGA can't possibly say it was wrong.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Musk is one of the smartest guys in the country

I didn't know this place had stand-up comedy on Friday nights.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

you got to wonder why these are screenshots and not videos?

Weird, right?

the broader point, I don't think Bannon is a nazi because of some arm gestures. I think he's a nazi because other nazi's have said he's a nazi and because of his own publicly espoused views.

 

[ulukinatme]

Not a Steve Bannon guy, but boy howdy I'm going try to defend him.

lmao I too love incredibly pixelated posts that don't contain the context behind them and that are from already proven screenshots. You got to wonder why these are screenshots and not videos? Why lump Elon in with Bannon? I already stated I don't think he's a Nazi.

Nick Fuentes is saying Bannon is too Nazi for him lmao it's not "da libz" saying he's doing a sig heil the Nazi's are. Oh, and the leader of the alt right party of France backed out because of the salute. Seems to be a big tent of people saying what he did was wrong, but MAGA can't possibly say it was wrong.

No, not a Steve Bannon guy, but I love to call out liberal brain damage because the tears are delicious.

I suggest taking a look at this video. I realize it's breaking down Elon Musk's recent "salute," but this unbiased expert makes some excellent points about the body language and psychology of Musk. He also discusses the so called "benefits' of making such a salute. For starters, Neo Nazis are not a powerful group in 2025. They're not traditionally big voters. In the case of Musk, they're not electric car drivers. They're not popular, they're not liked. He goes on and on. Point is, it stands to reason that there's no psychological reason why Musk would have showed support for the group. Many of those same reasons apply to Bannon.

It's worth your time, feel free to skip to about the 5:00 minute mark. The beginning breaks down his entrance and sets the stage for the later analysis.