Training Table

[JeremyND07]

It blew my mind when I found out that ND does not have a training table for its athletes!!! No wonder our strength and conditioning have been horrible! This change needs to take place ASAP!

NDNation Features: ND Ups the Performance Ante

"Currently Notre Dame does not have a training table as most schools with high level sports programs do, which many believe hurts Notre Dame's ability to compete during a long football season in a program that has to play athletes earlier in their careers."

 

[BGIF]

It blew my mind when I found out that ND does not have a training table for its athletes!!! No wonder our strength and conditioning have been horrible! This change needs to take place ASAP!

NDNation Features: ND Ups the Performance Ante

"Currently Notre Dame does not have a training table as most schools with high level sports programs do, which many believe hurts Notre Dame's ability to compete during a long football season in a program that has to play athletes earlier in their careers."

This has been written about at least since the first ND internet boards in the mid 90's. I remember Holtz being asked about it and him singing the school song, "Notre Dame isn't like anyplace else. There are no athletic dorms here. The student athletes reside in the same dorms as the other students. They take the same classes and they eat the same meals. It's part of the Notre Dame philosophy that students share the same experiences.

I asked Elizabeth Dalton, who was on the Athletic Dept Staff for Davie dealing with Operations, why no training table. She responded, "We try to coordinate with the dining hall staff but it's a logistical nightmare with the players scattered all across campus. We try to see that eat the right things but you can only do so much.

I've asked some players and while they were students they all sing the Holtz school song.

Among other Father Malloy was oppose to special treatment as not being compatible with "residentiality".

I'm not arguing the benefits of a training table just that several coaching staffs have tried to deal with it but the administration, at least previous administrations, didn't feel it appropriate.

 

[JeremyND07]

I workout a lot and without the right food/supplements you are wasting your time in the weightroom. The right food helps recovery, muscle developement, focus,etc.

I understand the whole athletes are like everyone else but on this point they are not. They get beat up for 3-4 hours a day for the university. I am glad to see the AD finally at least researching this idea!

 

[BGIF]

I workout a lot and without the right food/supplements you are wasting your time in the weightroom. The right food helps recovery, muscle developement, focus,etc.

I understand the whole athletes are like everyone else but on this point they are not. They get beat up for 3-4 hours a day for the university. I am glad to see the AD finally at least researching this idea!

I hear what you're saying. In the mid 90's Melvin Dansby was the weight lifting beast with two bad knees. He benched over 500. With his knees I don't think he did squats. He used to work out off campus. Think about that. Your talking training table and the Star DL was training off campus. He didn't feel comfortable with Weight Coach Woolfolk I believe. Felt he didn't challenge the players. Didn't make them work. They could go through the motions so to speak. Do less reps. So up less often. Leave sooner. Woolfolk also stressed explosive moves if I recall correctly. A couple of lifter really got into detailed discussion and broke it down into terms digestible for the rest of us. They also contrasted ND's program (or lack of one) with OU and Nebraska.

When Marotti came everybody was pumped. He had the players rolling huge truck tires. Lots of team camradarie stuff. Don't know how useful it was to effective body development. Jim Jones was a weight lifting machine. Strongest guy on the team and unfortunately the least limber. He could kill people hitting them except they'd be by him as he was coming out of his stance. Too tight. Overworked in the weight room was a comment I got off the record from a football staff member.

When Mendoza came everybody was pumped. Marotti was gone. The players won't run out of gas in the 4th Q anymore. Marotti goes to work with Urban and his players look fine on the field. They're not gassed. They don't get outmuscled in the 4th Q. But we still do.

As I understand it the weight coach encourages and guides the training supplements as that can all be handled and followed up from the GUG. I think the GUG is as close to a training table as you going to see at ND because of ND's culture.

A couple of year ago the NCAA outlawed athletic dorms due to problems at OU and some other schools. The SEC was the last to comply. They fought the change saying that athletes are special people and have special needs. The NCAA argued that special benefits are no no's.

Bama has them back but they don't call them atheletic dorms now. It's marketing and parsing the word "is" but what they do is say put 50 athletes in a dorm with 10 regular students. "It's not an athletic dorm we allow any kind of student in." However if you're pre-med or pre-law and study you're butt off, you're not going to request being put in the jock dorms. From what I read the non athletes in the dorms have a propensity for a sports medicine major. ND wouldn't do even that.

 

[Riddickulous]

What the hell is a training table? Is it some kind of diet?

 

[notredomer23]

What the hell is a training table? Is it some kind of diet?

diet, supplements, protein. you know

 

[Riddickulous]

I gotta get smarter.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I gotta get smarter.

lol. You are getting smarter.

Training tables may vary by school, but essentially it is when the team sits together for meals, most often at the school dining hall. Meal plans are often more catered to athletes - more carbs, proteins, etc...

 

[tgolden]

lol. You are getting smarter.

Training tables may vary by school, but essentially it is when the team sits together for meals, most often at the school dining hall. Meal plans are often more catered to athletes - more carbs, proteins, etc...

If that's the definition of a training table, then Notre Dame already has one. Walk into the dining hall, football players are eating together most the time anyhow, maybe not everyone on the team at one time, but in groups throughout the dining hall. The dining hall offers plenty of healthy foods with carbs and proteins if that's what they choose to get. They already have (very elaborate) team meals for victory dinners, friday nights before games, game day, all during fall camp and various other times either because practices overlap dining hall hours or just for the heck of it. Protein shakes, etc are already provided at the Gug.

I am all for the team having a nutritionist to help guys plan their diets and maybe give an overview of what they should be eating and what they shouldn't and they already have this, but in the end... if a guy is craving BK, he is going to get his BK if he doesn't have enough self control, regardless of a training table. If a guy gets hungry at 12 at night, he still has to make the choice between eating healthy food or eating a ton of pizza. It can be argued that a training table eliminates the temptations of the not so healthy foods offered at the dining hall, but these are all big boys, they need to choose to be great, not just have it forced upon them because in the end, there are plenty of other places for them to get food. I don't think there is a need to segregate the team for every meal in their own private dining hall with someone standing over their shoulder telling them exactly how much to take of each dish.

I think there is a thin line between helping athletes with their diets and creating an "athletic dorm" type affect for even more of campus life. I would agree with what has been said above and say the Gug and the team meals that do exist are about as much as ND is going to get.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I'm not sure what your point is, but O.K.

One thing I said is that "training table" might vary from school to school.

One thing I read also is that "training table" may be a cause for discussion within each school.

My experience is that "training table" means that a team, more or less, eats together after a hard workout.

I don't know how to "define" training table.

 

[JeremyND07]

Basically, it helps the strength & conditioning coach monitor what the players are eating. They can suggest what they want but 350 pound dudes love french fries and cheeseburgers.

 

[tgolden]

I'm not sure what your point is, but O.K.

One thing I said is that "training table" might vary from school to school.

One thing I read also is that "training table" may be a cause for discussion within each school.

My experience is that "training table" means that a team, more or less, eats together after a hard workout.

I don't know how to "define" training table.

I wasn't criticizing your definition. I was saying that I think ND already has as much of a "training table" as it will or should have. Like Jeremy said, you can tell a guy what to eat, but if he wants his burger and fries, he's still going to find a way to get his burger and fries without internal self control.

 

[BGIF]

... I was saying that I think ND already has as much of a "training table" as it will or should have.

No, ND feeds athlete like it feeds it students. That's consistent with ND's philosophy on the student experience. If we talking average sports no problem. If you're talking competing on a world class level which in college football equates to the BCS. You take your training to a higher level.

From 15 years of conversation on this topic with ND staff and players as well as coaches and players from other programs. ND does a great job on the student level. They do a mediocre job at the athlete level although they proclaim to want to play at the highest level.

I don't think ND will provide a training table which is a hell of a lot more than supplements. It's a regimine.

... Like Jeremy said, you can tell a guy what to eat, but if he wants his burger and fries, he's still going to find a way to get his burger and fries without internal self control.

Which is exactly why coaches want a training table. They want the intake monitored. On most linemen they don't care. On somebody with weight control issues like Chris Stewart they want to duct tape their mouth. No you can't control the midnight pizzas. But when the kid is eating 3 meals a day that were prepared for his specific diet, they know who's been cheating and who hasn't. It's a lot easier to control an athletes diet when you monitor 90% of the intake rather than 0%.

About 10 years ago Joe Getherall and I brought a bunch of In and Out Burgers to Joey's and a couple of players in Joey's hotel room the night before the USC game. When David Givens took his second burger, Tony Drive was all over him. "You know Coach (Urban Meyer) is gonna be all over your butt if you're one pound over your weight. One or two burgers more and Coach Mattison is gonna have you playin' at LB like he wants."

BTW, the players had eaten dinner about a half hour earlier before wolfing down two burgers and fries each. I would have blamed the 10-0 loss on those greasy burgers had Chappell, Battle, or any other QB had one that night.

Elite programs utilize the training table concept as do elite athletes in other sports (cyclists, tennis players, etc). College gymnastics programs and swimming programs all look for that little edge. And the training table is one of them. You still have to be able to block and tackle but that's a topic for another thread.

Keep in mind the training table is also one more feature coaches use to sell their programs. "At XYZ University you'll get mess hall food but here at State we cater to building your body the correct way. Meals prepared specifically for the type of athlete you are. We will develop your body and your technique to get you to the NFL."

 

[Stalking_Eagle]

If they aren't going to provide a table for the athletes then lets get a table for the entire student body. This eliminates the issues of athletes treated different.

 

[tgolden]

BTW, the players had eaten dinner about a half hour earlier before wolfing down two burgers and fries each.

And that is my point... guys would eat at the training table and then go get burger king or mcdonalds a few hours later if they didn't have the self control. and I saw some of Chris Stewart's struggles first hand. A training table would have minimal impact on that because he was still going to be pretty hungry many hours throughout the day when they didn't want him eating. I'd say he's done a pretty good job getting in better shape though.

You would be surprised how many meals the team already has together for not having an official training table as well as by the amount of food, protein shakes, etc available at the Gug. I also think you'd be surprised if you aren't already aware by how much healthy variety is available in the dining halls. It's not just some mess hall. I would agree that there should be a nutritionist (which there is) to help guys figure out what they should eat, but I think these are all big boys and in the end, they have to make the choice if they want to be great or not. And really, a big thing for me is that I do feel ND is different from other schools with the athletes being more a part of the student body, and I think having separate dining facilities for every meal would really hurt that. I hate seeing football players chowing down on Sbarros and Burger King in LaFortune too, but I just don't think separate dining would change that much.

The Givens story is funny though. Although despite all those burgers, he was pretty ripped and had a nice NFL career. Maybe he changed his habits later in his college career as 98 was his freshman year.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I wasn't criticizing your definition...

Not to worry my friend. I didn't take it as a criticism. I know I was a bit vague about the "definition" because, like I said, it varies from school to school. I think other posters on here have done a nice job explaining.

Here's something: training table@Everything2.com

An old article but Steaks and shakes help round out football players' diet

 

[leahy's lads]

beef baby!!!!!!!!

 

[BGIF]

If they aren't going to provide a table for the athletes then lets get a table for the entire student body. This eliminates the issues of athletes treated different.

Athletes are treated differently. How many students get their ankles, or knees taped before going to class?

How many get to sit in a the whirlpool after calculus?

It's a question of what's appropriate. And for years in the judgement of the ND administration (Hesburgh, Monk), it wasn't. Under Jenkins and Swarbrick maybe there's a perspective that it can be incorporated into ND's student culture. Will see.

 

[leahy's lads]

each student is a human being, each student deserves respect and certain benefits. But most students don't do anything other than going to class, studying their tails off, and drinking copious amounts of beer on Fridays.


now, athletes have greater responsibilities.......practice, films, weights, classes, team meetings, study hall......not to mention being expected to perform on the field in front of 80,000 folks on Saturdays in the Fall, or baseball players ect......

just my .02

 

[WabashFalcon]

each student is a human being, each student deserves respect and certain benefits. But most students don't do anything other than going to class, studying their tails off, and drinking copious amounts of beer on Fridays.


now, athletes have greater responsibilities.......practice, films, weights, classes, team meetings, study hall......not to mention being expected to perform on the field in front of 80,000 folks on Saturdays in the Fall, or baseball players ect......

just my .02

Xbox. Don't forget Xbox. For both. God I love COD.

 

[BGIF]

Xbox. Don't forget Xbox. For both. God I love COD.

Xbox.

That's a 3 credit course at Tennessee, isn't it?

 

[jason_h537]

Its a Major at USC

 

[Bubba]

Its a Major at USC

Double major -- XBox & PS3, with a minor in Wii. When you graduate, you can live in your parent's basement and enjoy the weed potential agents supply you now that you are of no use to them.

 

[DirtySecret]

Notre Dame Has A training Table

Notre Dame Has A training Table

NDNation Features: ND Ups the Performance Ante

Football players used to eat what ever food the rest of the students ate in the dining hall. The new AD Swarbrick has assigned a person to create a training table with special diets for all football players developed by sports nutrionist to concied with their physical training to address and enhance physical performance issues.

Good move, and about time. Other teams have been doing this for years. Another screw up by ousted former AD Kevin White. Thank God he's gone, he's been the root of ND footballs ills since boob davie!!!

 

[ND Rottie]

The article does not say they have a training table, it says they are coming a tad closer to the day when they will have one. big difference.

 

[DirtySecret]

The article does not say they have a training table, it says they are coming a tad closer to the day when they will have one. big difference.

Which means most likely going to happen either at the end of this season or starting next season..

 

[BGIF]

... Good move, and about time. Other teams have been doing this for years. Another screw up by ousted former AD Kevin White.

Thank God he's gone, he's been the root of ND footballs ills since boob davie!!!

Other teams have been doing it for decades. And no, it doesn't go on Kevin White's list of gaffes.

The concept of a training table was felt by ND Adminstrations as least through Father Hesburgh as being contrary to the ND student culture. That's why ND didn't have Athletic Dorms like OU, BAMA, and the rest of the big boys. ND wanted the athletes integrated with the rest of the student body. They lived in the same dorms and ate the same dining halls.

It's a concept that been lobbied for through the decades by many head coaches and not just in football. When the President says "you coach 'em, we house 'em, feed 'em, and teach 'em" the coach gets the message. Fight the battles you can win.

Davie was Malloy's hire as was White 3 years later. Damn good thing Malloy was not President in 1985 or Faust might still be coaching here. And Holtz most likely would not have been hired.

Swarbrick may have taken up the cause on behalf of the coaches but if Father Jenkins had said, "No, it conflicts with our culture." It would have been a dead issue. A dead policy issue.

Weis/Saracino (ND Admissions) have developed a harmonious working relationship that didn't exist during the Holtz/Rooney(ND Admissions) era. That may have been just those two individuals that tore down the adversarial wall but I suspect Father Jenkins had influence in that area just as he has influence in a decision on a training table.

 

[DirtySecret]

Other teams have been doing it for decades. And no, it doesn't go on Kevin White's list of gaffes.

The concept of a training table was felt by ND Adminstrations as least through Father Hesburgh as being contrary to the ND student culture. That's why ND didn't have Athletic Dorms like OU, BAMA, and the rest of the big boys. ND wanted the athletes integrated with the rest of the student body. They lived in the same dorms and ate the same dining halls.

It's a concept that been lobbied for through the decades by many head coaches and not just in football. When the President says "you coach 'em, we house 'em, feed 'em, and teach 'em" the coach gets the message. Fight the battles you can win.

Davie was Malloy's hire as was White 3 years later. Damn good thing Malloy was not President in 1985 or Faust might still be coaching here. And Holtz most likely would not have been hired.

Swarbrick may have taken up the cause on behalf of the coaches but if Father Jenkins had said, "No, it conflicts with our culture." It would have been a dead issue. A dead policy issue.

Weis/Saracino (ND Admissions) have developed a harmonious working relationship that didn't exist during the Holtz/Rooney(ND Admissions) era. That may have been just those two individuals that tore down the adversarial wall but I suspect Father Jenkins had influence in that area just as he has influence in a decision on a training table.

I'm not saying pamper them like they do USC athletes and seperate them from the actual college life, but let them have their own table in the dinning hall with rest of the students while having a specific place that is following up on their diet. That's it! They remain among the faculty and other students..

 

[BGIF]

... They remain among the faculty and other students..

Not in the eyes of Fathers Hesburgh and Malloy. It was still segregation. Your points were made by ND coaches through the ages. The Administration said no. The difference this time is the Administration apparently said yes to the concept now work out the details.

There's a thread on this site probably from about a week or so ago where several of us discussed the pros and cons of training tables. But the bottom line is This IS ND. The staff will have to work out a plan that's consistent with ND's culture as the Administration sees it.

 

[BGIF]

1/16 Mike Hutton Post Tribune

* Training table:Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick told the South Bend Tribune that a football training table, with a choice of nutritious foods, is coming "sooner rather than later" for the Irish.
Notre Dame is one of the very few Division I programs left in the country that doesn't have a separate training table for its players.
The Irish defensive players lost seven pounds per man by the time the season played out, according to Swarbrick.

Longo is enthusiastic about the prospect of a training table.
His goal is for every lineman to have a body fat composition of 18 percent.
"There is a big difference between a guy with 25 percent body fat who weighs 300 and a guy with 18 percent body fat who weighs 300," Longo said.
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