The Ultimate Hypocrite- John Edwards

Sureal

Ambassador of Good Will
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
316
Totally agree, it was all of the above because none of them were prepared for a disaster of unprecedented proportions. Hope they all learned their lessons, but the cynic in me is telling me that is doubtful.

I just believe they can care less about what happened or is happening in New Orleans. What disturbs me is the fact that he is making an issue about all of this after the fact it happened. Do something about preventing this to happen again. Show me that you are being preemptive about it now, if not he needs to shut up about it. His lip service ain't finding people secure homes down there. His lip service ain't reducing the wave of crime down there. Just to get a couple of votes he'll touch a couple of nerves with the sentimental stuff and do nothing when he gets elected. Politicians make me sick, they all are a bunch of salesmen/women
 
I

IrishCalves

Guest
Its pretty ironic that the more selfless politicians get the least support within a government of, by, and for the people. Not to say his policies or leadership capabilities would've made him the best candidate, but did Ralph Nader look at the White House as a business opportunity for his cronies? No. To stereotype, his "cronies" were poor college students and people that drive Volvos. So how to the people repay a politician who doesn't have a personal agenda that reads a mile long? Bupkis, in the way of support.
 

Irish52

New member
Messages
554
Reaction score
22
Politics again on this Board. You are all entitled to your opinions but this is not the forum to express them....suggest you read the purpose of IrishEnvy.
 

kjones

Zahm Hall Football Coach
Messages
981
Reaction score
105
Politics again on this Board. You are all entitled to your opinions but this is not the forum to express them....suggest you read the purpose of IrishEnvy.

Man, we went through this debate before. It's a SOCIAL community of people who love Irish football. There are forums for pretty much ALL respectful discourse between peers and people who enjoy the exchanging of ideas. You are also mistaken, the Lep Lounge is indeed the very forum to express views such as politics.

And I quote
Grab a green beer and pull up your chair, It's happy hour at the Leprechaun Lounge. Got something on your mind? Share it. Everythings fair game here.
(emphasis added)

Please simply exercise your right and ability to ignore all threads in the Leprechaun Lounge, the Pro Teams Forums, and much of the News forum, and you then you should be quite alright in your desire to keep all topics on Notre Dame football. Some people on the board are merely interested in becoming friends and talking about things of common interest outside of the Irish, and this is indeed the place to do it.

(If this was in another forum, or hijacking say, a recruiting thread, your post would be quite in order, but as it is, I respectfully ask you to refrain from posting such comments in the futre.)
 

stonebreakerwasgod

LMI steals vbucks
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
623
Bush and Cheney "punked" the citizens of this country. Iraq was not a threat and had nothing to do with 9-11.

Nobody ever said that Saddam did have anything to do with 9-11. That has NEVER been stated by the administration. The CIA, Russians, English, France, and others believed he had WMD's, not just Bush. In fact...Kerry said "if you don't think that Saddam is a grave national threat, then don't vote for me in '04". Bill Clinton thought he had WMD's.

Iraq violated 16 UN resolutions and would NOT allow weapon inspectors inside. By enforcing those resolutions, and going after terror camps inside Iraq...is that PUNKING America????

You can disagree with the war, or the strategy...but to assail the motives of Bush is not far, in my mind.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

old timer
Messages
5,125
Reaction score
409
Politics again on this Board. You are all entitled to your opinions but this is not the forum to express them....suggest you read the purpose of IrishEnvy.


The Lep Lounge description
"Grab a green beer and pull up your chair, It's happy hour at the Leprechaun Lounge. Got something on your mind? Share it. Everythings fair game here."
 
I

IrishCalves

Guest
Nobody ever said that Saddam did have anything to do with 9-11. That has NEVER been stated by the administration. The CIA, Russians, English, France, and others believed he had WMD's, not just Bush. In fact...Kerry said "if you don't think that Saddam is a grave national threat, then don't vote for me in '04". Bill Clinton thought he had WMD's.

Iraq violated 16 UN resolutions and would NOT allow weapon inspectors inside. By enforcing those resolutions, and going after terror camps inside Iraq...is that PUNKING America????

You can disagree with the war, or the strategy...but to assail the motives of Bush is not far, in my mind.

What you do say is true, that he never said Sadaam was linked to 9/11 specifically. However, there are multiple articles like this one, that paint a more complicated picture than just that factoid would have you believe:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/140133_bushiraq18.html

The quote from this article that stands out most is as follows:

Critics have said the steady drumbeat of that message has tied Saddam to the attacks in the mind of the public. A recent poll by The Washington Post found that nearly seven Americans out of 10 believe Saddam played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks, a notion the administration has done little to tamp down.

That piece is from roughly four years ago, so I understand it's perspective is more dated than today, but the point remains. While Bush never said he was in on 9/11, he hardly tried to defeat the notion amongst the public that he was. I can't say it's black, and I can't say it's white, but their handling of the case to go to war looks pretty gray.

When Richard Clarke and George Tenet say that within days of the attacks, they were told by the higher ups from the the executive branch to find some link/dirt on Sadaam and Iraq... that's confusing to say the least. When we should be focusing on the guys who committed this atrocious act, why is it that the executive branch is worrying about pinning the tale on their own donkey, rather than the more informed one the CIA had in Al Qaeda?

The flow of intelligence should be from CIA to the Executive branch, not the other way around, which is the story these guys are telling. My point being, I tend to think that the motives for military action in Iraq are fair game. I certainly wasn't convinced of the threat they posed then, and by now, we all know that suspicions like mine were pretty well founded.

But that's my take on it, and you're entitled to yours as well.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

LMI steals vbucks
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
623
Believe what you want. There were a hell of a lot of reasons for the US to go into Iraq. Why are the Bush haters focused only on one (that everyone believed) that turned out not to be true. The Iraq war first went through the UN process, congress, and our allies....what more do ya want? Pile on Bush if you must, but that guy thumbed his noses at the inspectors, and harbored terrorists. Fair game!
 

stonebreakerwasgod

LMI steals vbucks
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
623
Bush lied about 9-11 too, it was a secret govt plot so that we could go to Afghanistanland and Iraq and waste lives and our money, not to mention give the left power in '06. Yep, couldn't have been the terrorists themselves.
 

GoshenGipper

Rest In Peace
Messages
7,946
Reaction score
394
Nobody ever said that Saddam did have anything to do with 9-11. That has NEVER been stated by the administration. The CIA, Russians, English, France, and others believed he had WMD's, not just Bush. In fact...Kerry said "if you don't think that Saddam is a grave national threat, then don't vote for me in '04". Bill Clinton thought he had WMD's.

Iraq violated 16 UN resolutions and would NOT allow weapon inspectors inside. By enforcing those resolutions, and going after terror camps inside Iraq...is that PUNKING America????

You can disagree with the war, or the strategy...but to assail the motives of Bush is not far, in my mind.

Bush lied about 9-11 too, it was a secret govt plot so that we could go to Afghanistanland and Iraq and waste lives and our money, not to mention give the left power in '06. Yep, couldn't have been the terrorists themselves.

LOL, well put Stoney.
 

IRISHDODGER

Blue Chip Recruit
Messages
8,037
Reaction score
6,102
Bush lied about 9-11 too, it was a secret govt plot so that we could go to Afghanistanland and Iraq and waste lives and our money, not to mention give the left power in '06. Yep, couldn't have been the terrorists themselves.

Don't blame those poor terrorists...that would be politically incorrect. We don't want to hurt their feelings...Islamofacists have feelings, too. :upset:
 
S

ShivaIrish

Guest
Believe what you want. There were a hell of a lot of reasons for the US to go into Iraq. Why are the Bush haters focused only on one (that everyone believed) that turned out not to be true. The Iraq war first went through the UN process, congress, and our allies....what more do ya want? Pile on Bush if you must, but that guy thumbed his noses at the inspectors, and harbored terrorists. Fair game!

WMD--no go
harboring terrorists--are we talking about Al Qaeda, the supposed ties between Iraq and the Islamic group? no dice, intelligence wasn't there, and it wasn't consistent with Hussein's approach to Islam (remember, the Bath party is/was a secular party).

It's fairly clear the administration tried to push the connection between Iraq and the Islamicists and/or 9/11. Why else would Cheney try to make the connection between Iraq and Mohammed Atta, even after briefed by the CIA and FBI discounting the possibility of the meeting?

Not everybody did believe in the WMD's. Politicians did (or made it seem like they did), but this thread already has articulated what kind of credibility they (regardless of Dem or Rep) generally have.

Believe what you want indeed!
 
Messages
11,214
Reaction score
377
We need to start securing our own borders. Afghanistan is where the real fight should have been occurring. Bush wanted a fight with Iraq. Members of his own cabinet have come out recently and said that. Bush and Cheney ducked out on Vietnam, but want to send others to Iraq. How about their friends in saudi Arabia, where most of the 9-11 terrorists were from?
 

notredomer23

Staph Member
Messages
17,633
Reaction score
17,557
Bush wanted a fight with Iraq.QUOTE]


that was a UN sanctions led attack. plus if we didnt, we wouldnt just have 2 problems now(iran and north korea) we'd have three.

note: didnt read any other posts
 
Last edited:

IRISHDODGER

Blue Chip Recruit
Messages
8,037
Reaction score
6,102
We need to start securing our own borders. Afghanistan is where the real fight should have been occurring. Bush wanted a fight with Iraq. Members of his own cabinet have come out recently and said that. Bush and Cheney ducked out on Vietnam, but want to send others to Iraq. How about their friends in saudi Arabia, where most of the 9-11 terrorists were from?

I wouldn't go playing the Bush/Cheney dodged VietNam card b/c your boy, Clinton, did the same thing & eventually put our boys in harm's way in Bosnia & Somalia. You do remember the massacre at Mogadishu & the U.S. tucking it's tail & running home, don't you? After that incident, bin Laden was reported to have been convinced that the U.S. is truly a paper tiger.

Now where I agree w/ you 100% is the fact you state about we should secure our own borders. In light of the news today, I'm am very upset w/ Reps & Dems alike, especially Bush & McCain, who supported this immigration legislation. Of course they want to run it through Congress before the general public gets a chance to digest it & see it for what it is.

You think Social Security is broke now, wait til 40,000,000 or so illegals are eligible for retirement benefits after paying a few bucks in. Another point, what if the 3 terrorists who were illegal aliens were apprehended after this legislation is passed?

We better all start becoming multi-lingual b/c America will soon be like the libs have desired for so long: another socialistic Western-European type nation bent on pushing PC laws on anyone & everyone including Draconian tax laws, wealth re-distribution & the gov't seizure of property from the rich & given to the poor. And France wonders why we think of them as the equivaltent of the female sexual organ located in the lower abdominal area who raise white flags quicker than a hybrid automobile goes zero to sixty.
 
S

ShivaIrish

Guest
And France wonders why we think of them as the equivaltent of the female sexual organ located in the lower abdominal area who raise white flags quicker than a hybrid automobile goes zero to sixty.

I guess we know where you stand in reference to feminism.
 

IRISHDODGER

Blue Chip Recruit
Messages
8,037
Reaction score
6,102
I guess we know where you stand in reference to feminism.

No, you really don't. That was just a politically correct way of calling them a word that is similar to "wussy". If is wasn't for America, France would be speaking German while Nazi stormtroopers goose-stepped down the Champs Elyses.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

LMI steals vbucks
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
623
WMD--no go
harboring terrorists--are we talking about Al Qaeda, the supposed ties between Iraq and the Islamic group? no dice, intelligence wasn't there, and it wasn't consistent with Hussein's approach to Islam (remember, the Bath party is/was a secular party).

It's fairly clear the administration tried to push the connection between Iraq and the Islamicists and/or 9/11. Why else would Cheney try to make the connection between Iraq and Mohammed Atta, even after briefed by the CIA and FBI discounting the possibility of the meeting?

Not everybody did believe in the WMD's. Politicians did (or made it seem like they did), but this thread already has articulated what kind of credibility they (regardless of Dem or Rep) generally have.

Believe what you want indeed!

There were terror camps in Iraq, and zarkawi (or however you spell that f....rs name). Sorry, buy that fact is unequivacal.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

LMI steals vbucks
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
623
I guess we know where you stand in reference to feminism.

LOL Feminism is just one more way to make victims out of people, so that they can swope in and save us from ourselves. Feminists don't support women, and black activists don't support blacks. Agenda driven, not people oriented.
 
Messages
11,214
Reaction score
377
"My boy Clinton" had a Rhodes Scholarship. Thats why he didn't go to Vietnam. If you have that offer, you take it. Bush was pulling C's at Yale and then disappeared from the Alabama Air National Guard. Cheney was pulling deferment after deferment so as to stay away from Vietnam. Big Difference.
 

GoshenGipper

Rest In Peace
Messages
7,946
Reaction score
394
Don't forget about Clinton's "great" AIDS prevention methods too. I mean who doesn't love the idea of using our tax dollars to buy condoms for Brazillian prostitutes under the guise of helping to stop the spread of AIDS.
 
S

ShivaIrish

Guest
No, you really don't. That was just a politically correct way of calling them a word that is similar to "wussy". If is wasn't for America, France would be speaking German while Nazi stormtroopers goose-stepped down the Champs Elyses.


And perhaps without France, the U.S. would have been a British colony for much longer.
And if it were just for a simple matter of geography, the U.S. may have needed help in WWII.
 
S

ShivaIrish

Guest
LOL Feminism is just one more way to make victims out of people, so that they can swope in and save us from ourselves. Feminists don't support women, and black activists don't support blacks. Agenda driven, not people oriented.

Stoney, I'm pretty sure you don't know much about feminism, no offence. I'm assuming you might your clues from people such as Jerry Fallwell (rip) and Fox News opinionists. I'm certainly not claiming all forms of feminism is feasible or truthful. But as long as you support equality for women, you are a feminist without necessarily acknowledging it.

Agenda driven---like Iraq?
 

GoshenGipper

Rest In Peace
Messages
7,946
Reaction score
394
We bailed them out in WWI and Vietnam as well. The French haven't fought a war they couldn't lose. :frenchy:

The only French that could ever win anything were the Normans and the Saxons, and they all went to Britain.
 
S

ShivaIrish

Guest
Don't forget about Clinton's "great" AIDS prevention methods too. I mean who doesn't love the idea of using our tax dollars to buy condoms for Brazillian prostitutes under the guise of helping to stop the spread of AIDS.

It's quite simplistic to simply dismiss someone for contracting AIDS. It's their fault, right? I suppose it's just a coincidence, then, that the biggest infestation of AIDS is in some of the poorest parts of the world. Not having many options put many people in desperate situations.

Condoms is a good thing compared to some of the alternatives. People who are against the education and the increased access to those forms of protection may be driven by a Christian-influenced agenda. Personally, I don't think having Christian morals is a bad thing, but don't force it on others.
 
S

ShivaIrish

Guest
We bailed them out in WWI and Vietnam as well. The French haven't fought a war they couldn't lose. :frenchy:

The only French that could ever win anything were the Normans and the Saxons, and they all went to Britain.

And Napoleon. It eventually gets confusing who you would consider "French," though.
Anyway, I don't think one's ability to fight should be the only (or the greatest) measurement of a nation.

Genghis Khan could kick butt--I wouldn't praise him though as leading a great nation/tribe/people at that time.
 

GoshenGipper

Rest In Peace
Messages
7,946
Reaction score
394
And Napoleon.

You might want to check your history. That whole Russian and Egyptian campaign thing didn't work out real well for him. And then there's that whole Waterloo mess that was partially caused from his impatience and stubbornness to learn from his mistakes.

Genghis Khan could kick butt--I wouldn't praise him though as leading a great nation/tribe/people at that time.

Genghis Khan was able to maintain his empire because of his great leadership, and a willingness to learn, eliminate threats, and meld cultures.
 
S

ShivaIrish

Guest
There were terror camps in Iraq, and zarkawi (or however you spell that f....rs name). Sorry, buy that fact is unequivacal.

It does seem that they ran/harbored/were involved with terror camps. Part of my problem is that we don't really know the nature of their involvement. There's been so many lies and mistakes made, what really was the case? Reportedly, Sadaam tried to capture Zarqawi himself. According to a CIA assessment in 2005: the Iraqi government under Sadaam's control "did not have a relationship, harbor, or turn a blind eye toward Zarqawi and his associates." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/08/AR2006090800777.html) I wouldn't deny Iraq being involved with some bad stuff, but this seems far from unequivocal. The lies have been rampant, and blatant. It's so bad it's almost like beating a dead horse, because the evidence is there. For those who keep defending this administration, at least on this point, there may not be anything to convince them otherwise.

Of course, that has to do with originally invading Iraq. The current situation in Iraq is a different thing, and dare I say, more complicated.
 
Top