The Shirt

[ndftbl]

Follow Leprechaun Legion, unify “The Shirt” color - Viewpoint - The Observer - University of Notre Dame and Saint Mary's College

 

[IrishinSyria]

Makes sense.

 

[gkIrish]

im biased because my girlfriend designed The Shirt a couple of years ago (the Kelly Green one), but I believe the purpose of changing the color is to make more money for charity. They are afraid that significantly less people will buy it every year if they can recycle old ones instead

 

[Domina Nostra]

im biased because my girlfriend designed The Shirt a couple of years ago (the Kelly Green one), but I believe the purpose of changing the color is to make more money for charity. They are afraid that significantly less people will buy it every year if they can recycle old ones instead

I am usually open-minded to bigger picture stuff, but that is a classic non-football decision that actually does impact the game. If the shirt were the same every year, the alumni would also be more likely to wear that color, regardless of whether they were wearing the shirt.

The Shirt people need to do a better marketing job rather than forcing obsolescence. ND people are plenty charitable.

 

[irishtrinity]

im biased because my girlfriend designed The Shirt a couple of years ago (the Kelly Green one), but I believe the purpose of changing the color is to make more money for charity. They are afraid that significantly less people will buy it every year if they can recycle old ones instead

True... On the other hand we have a loyal fanbase. I know i would buy the new ones and keep the old ones for yardwork etc.. I agree fully with green as the shirt color..Even if the few that for some reason don't buy one they can wear the older ones to add the the sea of green...

 

[kmoose]

im biased because my girlfriend designed The Shirt a couple of years ago (the Kelly Green one), but I believe the purpose of changing the color is to make more money for charity. They are afraid that significantly less people will buy it every year if they can recycle old ones instead

In deference to you and your girlfriend, I will refrain from mentioning that they would sell a lot more shirts (thereby raising a lot more money) by having better designs. I became aware of The Shirt, around 2002. I have purchased one every year since, except this past year. The color was hideous. Instead of changing colors, they need to come up with a great design from year to year. I loved the 2006 shirt, with the 2007 shirt being a close second. I'm going to refrain from saying that my least favorite was the one that had the cartoonish scene on the back. I think it used the Onward to Victory slogan. I hope that's not the one that your g/f designed, gk. If it is, then I'm sorry to bring it up, but it really is my least favorite one by far.

 

[gkIrish]

I am usually open-minded to bigger picture stuff, but that is a classic non-football decision that actually does impact the game. If the shirt were the same every year, the alumni would also be more likely to wear that color, regardless of whether they were wearing the shirt.

The Shirt people need to do a better marketing job rather than forcing obsolescence. ND people are plenty charitable.

(I agree with all of you that the shirt should be the same color every year but don't tell my g/f). I just wanted to play devil's advocate as to why it isn't necessarily the best idea. I can tell you that while I was a student from 2006-2010 that the 2008 and 2009 shirts were overwhelmingly the least popular.

 

[gkIrish]

In deference to you and your girlfriend, I will refrain from mentioning that they would sell a lot more shirts (thereby raising a lot more money) by having better designs. I became aware of The Shirt, around 2002. I have purchased one every year since, except this past year. The color was hideous. Instead of changing colors, they need to come up with a great design from year to year. I loved the 2006 shirt, with the 2007 shirt being a close second. I'm going to refrain from saying that my least favorite was the one that had the cartoonish scene on the back. I think it used the Onward to Victory slogan. I hope that's not the one that your g/f designed, gk. If it is, then I'm sorry to bring it up, but it really is my least favorite one by far.

Yeah that was hers, but luckily very few people agree with you that I've spoken to.

A bit more insider knowledge, the designers are highly restricted as to what they can use on the shirts. For example, no current players can be used. The designers also have nothing to do with the actual phrase used as the slogan. There's a rather large committee responsible for that.

 

[ndftbl]

The Shirt

im biased because my girlfriend designed The Shirt a couple of years ago (the Kelly Green one), but I believe the purpose of changing the color is to make more money for charity. They are afraid that significantly less people will buy it every year if they can recycle old ones instead

The author of the article addressed this point, head on. Came up with a pretty good solution, I think.

 

[ndftbl]

Here is what the author wrote:

"If the moderators sincerely feel they need to keep their income level the same, here is an idea: place the same "Shirt" lettering and design on green sweatshirts, jackets and coats, which they can then sell to students, fans and alumni to wear at the colder weather games.

Who knows, The Shirt Committee may even end up netting more money if they proceed down this path, thus killing two birds (and maybe even a wolverine or Trojan) with one stone."

 

[kmoose]

Yeah that was hers, but luckily very few people agree with you that I've spoken to.

A bit more insider knowledge, the designers are highly restricted as to what they can use on the shirts. For example, no current players can be used. The designers also have nothing to do with the actual phrase used as the slogan. There's a rather large committee responsible for that.

Doesn't it almost always turn out that way? You think to yourself, "Why in God's name would anyone pick that?", and it turns out that "that" was, by far, the best of the options. Is she still involved at all? I'd be inclined to buy one of hers, in the future, just to support a fellow IE poster.

 

[gkIrish]

The author of the article addressed this point, head on. Came up with a pretty good solution, I think.

Unfortunately the author assumes the main purpose is to support the team. In reality, it is to raise money for charity. And the committees have done extensive research about whether people would buy the same color every year with negative results. I agree with the premise that our stadium should wear the same color, but I don't believe the Shirt would make more money doing so.

 

[gkIrish]

Doesn't it almost always turn out that way? You think to yourself, "Why in God's name would anyone pick that?", and it turns out that "that" was, by far, the best of the options. Is she still involved at all? I'd be inclined to buy one of hers, in the future, just to support a fellow IE poster.

Appreciate the support but a different student designs it every year. We have since graduated. I don't advocate buying the Shirt just for the heck of it, unless your inclined to donate to charity. I usually wear a jersey to games.

 

[kmoose]

Appreciate the support but a different student designs it every year. We have since graduated. I don't advocate buying the Shirt just for the heck of it, unless your inclined to donate to charity. I usually wear a jersey to games.

So you're saying that trying to support a fellow IE poster by making a very small contribution to his girlfriend's happiness, thereby increasing his happiness, wouldn't be considered "a donation to charity"?

 

[ndftbl]

Not how I read the article

Not how I read the article

Unfortunately the author assumes the main purpose is to support the team. In reality, it is to raise money for charity. And the committees have done extensive research about whether people would buy the same color every year with negative results. I agree with the premise that our stadium should wear the same color, but I don't believe the Shirt would make more money doing so.

He said a "primary" purpose should also be to support the team, as the green shirt does for the basketball team.

And then he suggested other ways for the Shirt Committee to raise money for charity, which ideas seem to make a lot of sense.

The problem with the Shirt is that half the games it is too cold to wear it, so the author suggests that the Shirt Committee could make more money for charity by including the Shirt lettering and design on green sweatshirts, jackets and coats, so that we still have a sea of green in the stands during the colder weather games in October and November.

Not sure why we can't have our cake and eat it too, as this author (and the one on herloyalsons.com) suggests.

Here is the herloyalsons.com article: Time for “The Shirt” To Do Job #1: Support the Team | Her Loyal Sons

 

[condoms SUCk]

I say keep "The Shirt'’ the same color from year to year, as this will help to create a uniformed stadium fan base, but I think that a brighter color is more "effective". Having a mass of dark colors tend to make the fans look and act more subdued, where as a brighter color make people more excited.

 

[BGIF]

Unfortunately the author assumes the main purpose is to support the team. In reality, it is to raise money for charity. And the committees have done extensive research about whether people would buy the same color every year with negative results. I agree with the premise that our stadium should wear the same color, but I don't believe the Shirt would make more money doing so.

I've got a bunch of THE SHIRT in my closet but you've convinced me. I've bought my last. THEY don't want to support the team, I chose not to support them. Let them add that into their extensive but myopic research.

On a side note, Alabama and a number of other schools fill their stadiums for their spring games because admission is FREE. ND plays to 10-30K fans because they charge admissions for the St Joe's Club Fundraiser. Here's a hint, make the game FREE, collect donations at the gate. More fans = more money spent into the economy, bookstore, dorm barbecues, and any other charities participating. But it's somebody's turf already, and people don't like to share turf, natural or synthetic.

 

[ndftbl]

TOTALLY agree

TOTALLY agree

I say keep "The Shirt'’ the same color from year to year, as this will help to create a uniformed stadium fan base, but I think that a brighter color is more "effective". Having a mass of dark colors tend to make the fans look and act more subdued, where as a brighter color make people more excited.

I completely agree with this comment.

Dark colors do not stand out. Michigan's "maize," Nebraska's red, Tennessee's orange, etc., bright colors definitely do - as would Kelly green.

You couldn't miss the students, during the Syracuse game.

 

[Rocket89]

In deference to you and your girlfriend, I will refrain from mentioning that they would sell a lot more shirts (thereby raising a lot more money) by having better designs. I became aware of The Shirt, around 2002. I have purchased one every year since, except this past year. The color was hideous. Instead of changing colors, they need to come up with a great design from year to year. I loved the 2006 shirt, with the 2007 shirt being a close second. I'm going to refrain from saying that my least favorite was the one that had the cartoonish scene on the back. I think it used the Onward to Victory slogan. I hope that's not the one that your g/f designed, gk. If it is, then I'm sorry to bring it up, but it really is my least favorite one by far.

In deference to your opinion kmoose, I'm going to call BS.

The biggest problem isn't the color of the shirt, nor the design, but that there are too many fans cheering for Notre Dame who take fickle to an entirely new level.

The designs are the problem?

For years the designs have followed the same basic template. "Notre Dame Football Year X" on the front with a picture, and a saying on the back with another picture.

I just don't understand how people can look at these shirts and be so opposed to them when they all have basic Notre Dame logos, quotes, and players on them---especially given their purpose as a fundraiser and opportunity to color-coordinate the crowd. It's not like you're being asked to wear the tee-shirt every day for the rest of your life or to a wedding, or something like that.

So they need to come up with a great design every year, is that it then? How exactly do they do that?

For example, you didn't like this years version when it had your damn avatar picture on the front of it and a picture of Samardzija and Grimes celebrating a touchdown on the back. That's not good enough?

So you didn't like the color...

I get it that some people aren't going to love certain colors and that some of The Shirt's will be better than others. But we're talking about a somewhat bright blue colored shirt here---a color that is fairly normal in this world, a color that is worn by millions of people every day. Yet, oh my god the color is so hideous!! You mean to tell me you've never purchased an article of clothing this color before?

You said they need to have better designs and instead of changing the colors come up with better designs. Yet, you didn't buy the 2011 Shirt because of the color.

Okay then. I certainly didn't like the sandstorm color from a few years back, but it wouldn't have stopped me from buying one and helping out the cause while color coordinating the stadium if that ever became a reality on gameday.

And as far as your critique of the designs, the Onward to Victory shirt was last years and was kelly green.

Guess what? There's no cartoonish scene on the back. It's a picture of Jim Flanagan from the 1993 FSU game, and a picture of the crowd in the background. The front says We are the Fighting Irish with a shamrock denoting the year (2010).

Perhaps you mixed one of the shirt's up (I can't recall any cartoonish scenes on any in recent years), but if you haven't---I don't see how Notre Dame is going to really win you over here.

EDIT: I see you meant the 2004 version, no?

And that brings me back to my original point. People are always going to complain. The color sucks, the designs need to be better, etc. It's just so depressing.

Side note: Was it the 2005 Shirt that was yellow? Dear lord how many people complained about that color? The color yellow.....oh what an abomination to our senses!! How could anyone be caught in public with such a hideous color!?!? How dare the university make a Shirt that is not an official school color!! I shall boycott this!!

Meanwhile, Michigan is able to yellow-out their entire stadium when we played there this year. I wonder how many of their fans refused to wear yellow or wave their pom pom's because the color was so hideous? But those are their school colors so they should like them!!

Oh, this year's shirt was Florida's color or Air Force's color. Burn it.

Why doesn't anyone complain when the shirt looks just like it was made for Navy or Georgia Tech?

I'm sorry to pick on you kmoose, but your post pointed out perfectly why Notre Dame will have problems coordinating the stadium, selling more of the shirts, etc.

It's just called being fickle. And it's taken to the extreme with The Shirt.

 

[ndftbl]

Great points:

"Meanwhile, Michigan is able to yellow-out their entire stadium when we played there this year. I wonder how many of their fans refused to wear yellow or wave their pom pom's because the color was so hideous? But those are their school colors so they should like them!!

Oh, this year's shirt was Florida's color or Air Force's color. Burn it.

Why doesn't anyone complain when the shirt looks just like it was made for Navy or Georgia Tech?

I'm sorry to pick on you kmoose, but your post pointed out perfectly why Notre Dame will have problems coordinating the stadium, selling more of the shirts, etc.

It's just called being fickle. And it's taken to the extreme with The Shirt."

 

[military_irish]

Just so everyone can have a reference point here are all The Shirt's, of the past.

The Shirt Past and Present

I would like the stadium to be all one color and one way to obtain that would be for the Shirt to stay one color year in and year out.

But I really don't have a say, I will probably end up with The Shirt one way or another every year. Either by a gift or by my own purchase.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I am usually open-minded to bigger picture stuff, but that is a classic non-football decision that actually does impact the game. If the shirt were the same every year, the alumni would also be more likely to wear that color, regardless of whether they were wearing the shirt.

Agreed. There are innumerable ways for ND students to raise money for charity. That's no justification for negatively impacting stadium atmosphere.

 

[gkIrish]

This will be the last I say about the topic (if I can help it).

Notre Dame's unique "problem" is that we have 3 colors (blue, gold, green) that the fan base strongly identifies with. I'm not including white because nearly every school has white uniforms. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any BCS school with 3 like us, and few have 2 (i.e. Michigan, West Virginia, Auburn), although I'm sure you folks can come up with exceptions. I'm not talking about a random black stripe on a uniform, just the primary school colors that fans like to wear.

Fans at other schools wear some variation of their one or two colors, while ND fans usually wear blue, gold, or green. Our stadium never looks like people are wearing the same thing for that reason precisely. It's not like Alabama/Oklahoma State fans are saying "Let's wear red/orange at our game today." They don't have a choice because it's the only color they have (besides white).

The Shirt can't solve that problem, and never will. I don't think anything can fix that problem. And I'll say that the design is meaningless when it comes to game time. You can't make out a design when you watch on tv. While I theoretically support everyone wearing green, it's just not feasible.

 

[gkIrish]

Agreed. There are innumerable ways for ND students to raise money for charity. That's no justification for negatively impacting stadium atmosphere.

Ok I lied I have poster's fever.

There are definitely not many ways that students can raise over 100,000 for charity. There just aren't.

 

[ndftbl]

"The Shirt can't solve that problem, and never will."

And my last comment is that I think it can.

Michigan's colors are maize and blue, yet all you see in the stadium is the bright colored maize.

Intimidating, to see so many wearing the same primary color, cheering at the same time.

As the Observer author suggests, over time the stadium color will change - it's not going to happen overnight.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The Shirt can't solve that problem, and never will. I don't think anything can fix that problem. And I'll say that the design is meaningless when it comes to game time. You can't make out a design when you watch on tv. While I theoretically support everyone wearing green, it's just not feasible.

During my 7 years in South Bend, I bought "The Shirt" primarily: (1) to support the football team; and (2) to fit in. I'd imagine that's why most alumni purchase it as well. If the committee decided to always make it Kelly green, some people would undoubtedly stop buying it every year because of (2), but most would continue to purchase it because of (1).

There are definitely not many ways that students can raise over 100,000 for charity. There just aren't.

Shirt sales wouldn't suddenly plunge to zero if they standardized the color. They'd simply drop a bit. The difference could easily be made up in other places.

 

[BGIF]

Ok I lied I have poster's fever.

There are definitely not many ways that students can raise over 100,000 for charity. There just aren't.

They could sell "THE HAT" for $2.00 over cost and make well over 100K.

They could sell "THE HOODIE"

They could sell "THE TOWEL"

They could sell ...

ND has the best business school and a lot of bright minds. Did the thinking stop with the creation of "THE SHIRT"?

 

[ndftbl]

Agree

Agree

They could sell "THE HAT" for $2.00 over cost and make well over 100K.

They could sell "THE HOODIE"

They could sell "THE TOWEL"

They could sell ...

ND has the best business school and a lot of bright minds. Did the thinking stop with the creation of "THE SHIRT"?

What bothers me is that, just because there is one negative pointed out (i.e., less sales) to keeping the shirt the same color every year, we just punt.

I thought Brian Kelly said "get used to it."

If we can change the 100-year old tradition and pipe music into the stadium, we can surely change the Shirt policy, as you suggest.

Let's just use our No. 1 ranked business school minds a little bit!

 

[gkIrish]

"The Shirt can't solve that problem, and never will."

And my last comment is that I think it can.

Michigan's colors are maize and blue, yet all you see in the stadium is the bright colored maize.

Intimidating, to see so many wearing the same primary color, cheering at the same time.

As the Observer author suggests, over time the stadium color will change - it's not going to happen overnight.

You clearly didn't read my post carefully. That third option makes a HUGE difference. I've been to the Big House twice and they don't all wear only maize. Most wear primary maize with blue lettering or vice versa. It just so happens that maize is a very bright color and stands out. Also, if you are basing your comment on what you saw for the "Under the Lights" game I don't believe they do that for every game. It was the first night game ever and they wanted to do something special. I asked a scuM fan while I was there if the stadium usually looks that great and they said it was because of the night game

I'm beginning to think you wrote the article you like quoting it so much

 

[gkIrish]

They could sell "THE HAT" for $2.00 over cost and make well over 100K.

They could sell "THE HOODIE"

They could sell "THE TOWEL"

They could sell ...

ND has the best business school and a lot of bright minds. Did the thinking stop with the creation of "THE SHIRT"?

No, they can't. the bookstore/Adidas refuse to sacrifice sales on their regularly marked up hats and hoodies for more charity work. The Shirt committee has tried.

Edit: Hopefully this changes soon