The boys of summer! (Baseball Thread)

[Rogue219]

I'd be a little worried about the Yankees. Unless you're a Chicago fan. White Sox have to be happy if they never see the Yankees again this year.

NL is going to be absolutely crazy. Giants, Dodgers, Brewers. The damn Cardinals are starting to play well.

 

[Irishize]

I'd be a little worried about the Yankees. Unless you're a Chicago fan. White Sox have to be happy if they never see the Yankees again this year.

NL is going to be absolutely crazy. Giants, Dodgers, Brewers. The damn Cardinals are starting to play well.

Padres have imploded. Having a brutal schedule down the stretch hasn’t helped. The Rockies are only 6 games behind them now.

 

[Irish#1]

I'd be a little worried about the Yankees. Unless you're a Chicago fan. White Sox have to be happy if they never see the Yankees again this year.

NL is going to be absolutely crazy. Giants, Dodgers, Brewers. The damn Cardinals are starting to play well.

My pinstripes aren't a threat unless they wake up real quick. They've played like a yo-yo most of the year and right now they're heading down which is the wrong direction given the # of games left.

 

[Rogue219]

Padres have imploded. Having a brutal schedule down the stretch hasn’t helped. The Rockies are only 6 games behind them now.

I though the White Sox and Padres were going to be very interesting. Padres still are but they are clearly in a division that is a little bit better right now, though I am expecting that AL Central to come around in a year or two. I think they'd be in a different place had they gotten Scherzer. Adam Frazier hasn't done much for them, either. Nobody expected the Giants and the Padres had a lot expectations going into the season. It's a young team like Chicago's but they are in a different situation entirely. That Big Blue Shadow looks large to the north of them up the coast.

I think the Tigers should be able to challenge Chicago in short order if they make some moves to bolster their roster. Cleveland should worry more about keeping their good players and actually trying as opposed to whatever they want to call themselves. I clutch my pearls that the Guardians have dealt away Lindor, Hernandez, Carrasco, Clevinger and Kluber in the last two years. Hard to swallow this if you are a loyal part of that fan base.

Bauer....I think trading him looks smart in hindsight for a lot of reasons.

 

[Irishize]

I though the White Sox and Padres were going to be very interesting. Padres still are but they are clearly in a division that is a little bit better right now, though I am expecting that AL Central to come around in a year or two. I think they'd be in a different place had they gotten Scherzer. Adam Frazier hasn't done much for them, either. Nobody expected the Giants and the Padres had a lot expectations going into the season. It's a young team like Chicago's but they are in a different situation entirely. That Big Blue Shadow looks large to the north of them up the coast.

I think the Tigers should be able to challenge Chicago in short order if they make some moves to bolster their roster. Cleveland should worry more about keeping their good players and actually trying as opposed to whatever they want to call themselves. I clutch my pearls that the Guardians have dealt away Lindor, Hernandez, Carrasco, Clevinger and Kluber in the last two years. Hard to swallow this if you are a loyal part of that fan base.

Bauer....I think trading him looks smart in hindsight for a lot of reasons.

Lindor has struggled mightily but we all expect him to return to form sooner or later so I agree with Cleveland fans not wanting to part with him but the rest haven’t done a thing with their new organizations. Carrasco has been underwhelming w/ a gross ERA. Clevinger has been on the shelf with major surgery. Kluber was horrible in Texas, seemed to find a groove in NY but is now injured. It’s obvious his best days are long gone. Agreed about Bauer. The one name you haven’t mentioned who has thrived is Michael Brantley. That dude is a professional hitter.

 

[landrus13]

Welp, my Cardinals won 10 in a row last night. Going for 11 tonight against the Brewers. Cardinals are red hot. Looks like they're gonna run away with that second wild card spot. I'm excited for some playoff baseball. That sweep of the Padres really helped. Padres have been really disappointing this year. Many expected them to contend with the Dodgers and it just hasn't happened. I know their pitching has been hurt and abysmal at the same time. Tatis Jr has missed time which hasn't helped either. I wonder if Tingler is maybe on the hot seat?

 

[GowerND11]

Mariners clinched a winning record this year last night. More than likely this season will be the 19th straight year without playoffs as we sit 3 back in the WC. That said, this team was still supposed to be a year away from even being in the conversation. We have a negative run difference, and the young guys still are developing. However, this has been a fun year watching the growth and potential of this team. I know many expect Seager to walk after this year, and I can't blame either side if he does. However, he seems to really be enjoying this group of guys he's playing with, and would love to finally reward one of our lifers with a playoff berth like what King Felix also deserved.

 

[Rogue219]

Lindor has struggled mightily but we all expect him to return to form sooner or later so I agree with Cleveland fans not wanting to part with him but the rest haven’t done a thing with their new organizations. Carrasco has been underwhelming w/ a gross ERA. Clevinger has been on the shelf with major surgery. Kluber was horrible in Texas, seemed to find a groove in NY but is now injured. It’s obvious his best days are long gone. Agreed about Bauer. The one name you haven’t mentioned who has thrived is Michael Brantley. That dude is a professional hitter.

Forgot about Brantley. Further proves my point.

Their respective performances since leaving Cleveland aren't the issue. There is no telling those guys would have been hurt or bad if they'd remained in Cleveland. The franchise has a very long history going back to the 1990s of finding and developing talent only to maintain to their fans they can't afford to pay these players when time comes. It may have been true a while ago, but it isn't true now. These teams are all flush with money and the majority of them are crying poor. It's bogus.

Their last losing season was 2012. They won three straight Central titles and a pennant. In 2019 they won 93 games. During that time leading up to the present they've gradually sent away talent. It makes it very hard to be a fan of a franchise like this when they are clearly sending signals they're not interested in winning. Take it from a Pirates fan.

 

[Irishize]

Forgot about Brantley. Further proves my point.

Their respective performances since leaving Cleveland aren't the issue. There is no telling those guys would have been hurt or bad if they'd remained in Cleveland. The franchise has a very long history going back to the 1990s of finding and developing talent only to maintain to their fans they can't afford to pay these players when time comes. It may have been true a while ago, but it isn't true now. These teams are all flush with money and the majority of them are crying poor. It's bogus.

Their last losing season was 2012. They won three straight Central titles and a pennant. In 2019 they won 93 games. During that time leading up to the present they've gradually sent away talent. It makes it very hard to be a fan of a franchise like this when they are clearly sending signals they're not interested in winning. Take it from a Pirates fan.

Right but other than Lindor & Brantley, how pissed would their fanbase have been had they invested multi-year deals for the likes of Kluber, Clevinger Bauer & Carrasco. I agree with your sentiment. I just disagree that Cleveland should’ve kept the aforementioned pitchers. In other words, they should’ve used the money freed up by letting those 4 pitchers walk t attract better talent.

 

[Rogue219]

Right but other than Lindor & Brantley, how pissed would their fanbase have been had they invested multi-year deals for the likes of Kluber, Clevinger Bauer & Carrasco. I agree with your sentiment. I just disagree that Cleveland should’ve kept the aforementioned pitchers. In other words, they should’ve used the money freed up by letting those 4 pitchers walk t attract better talent.

They didn't have to necessarily keep all of them, but did they need to get rid of all of them too? Along with the young positional talent. I am inclined to agree as it relates to pitching, but there is zero excuse to trade Lindor whether you are trying or not.

As much as I admire Cleveland as being at the forefront of the analytical movement 20+ years ago, I just have a hard time swallowing the idea that they can't afford to keep some of these guys and go from winning three divisions in a row to not trying. They had a rather nice run and were a stupid rain delay away from possibly ending their own World Series drought and leaving the Cubs high and dry yet again. A couple of months ago they traded a Gold Glove second baseman with 20HR to the team in their division that was in front of them in first. It just sends a bad message to your community for a sport, and city, struggling to attract new fans.

If you are crying poor, things aren't going to get much better for you if you're showing your ass to your fans that you kind of don't care.

 

[Irish#1]

My pinstripes aren't a threat unless they wake up real quick. They've played like a yo-yo most of the year and right now they're heading down which is the wrong direction given the # of games left.

They must have heard me bitching. Two in a row and reclaimed the final WC slot with the BJ's dropping one to TB. Interesting that they night before when the BJ's beat TB, the BJ's walked 11 and still won.

 

[Irishize]

They didn't have to necessarily keep all of them, but did they need to get rid of all of them too? Along with the young positional talent. I am inclined to agree as it relates to pitching, but there is zero excuse to trade Lindor whether you are trying or not.

As much as I admire Cleveland as being at the forefront of the analytical movement 20+ years ago, I just have a hard time swallowing the idea that they can't afford to keep some of these guys and go from winning three divisions in a row to not trying. They had a rather nice run and were a stupid rain delay away from possibly ending their own World Series drought and leaving the Cubs high and dry yet again. A couple of months ago they traded a Gold Glove second baseman with 20HR to the team in their division that was in front of them in first. It just sends a bad message to your community for a sport, and city, struggling to attract new fans.

If you are crying poor, things aren't going to get much better for you if you're showing your ass to your fans that you kind of don't care.

Agree on not spending. The Twins, Brewers, Orioles, Pirates, Indians & Royals have zero excuses to cry poor. Their respective owners or ownership groups are trying to run it like a venture capitalist so they can pocket any revenue & then savings after liquidating the assets. It’s a long term bet. MLB needs to mandate that these teams reinvest their profit sharing back into their rosters. That’s the whole point but some owners simply pocket the money and cry poor while the fans pay the price.

Cleveland definitely should’ve kept Lindor. They got lucky, in hindsight, by dumping those pitchers but if your point is Cleveland should’ve invested in better players, we agree.

 

[Rogue219]

Tampa Rays are in the playoffs. Again. Only the Marlins, Pirates, Orioles and Indians have lower payrolls, none of whom are actually trying.

 

[landrus13]

Rays and Brewers are my original World Series prediction. I may change that after the Brewers are getting owned right now by my Cardinals.

 

[Rogue219]

Rays and Brewers are my original World Series prediction. I may change that after the Brewers are getting owned right now by my Cardinals.

Those games mean nothing to Milwaukee. Stick with your pick.

 

[Dale]

Those games mean nothing to Milwaukee. Stick with your pick.

That’s still a problem though. It’s the age old question with any sport, and is different with different personalities. Does cruising for 2 weeks lose your mojo? Woodruff has not been his Cy Young caliber since being sick/hurt. Can anyone slumping just turn it on right away? Maybe. But not too easy for a lot of guys

 

[Rogue219]

That’s still a problem though. It’s the age old question with any sport, and is different with different personalities. Does cruising for 2 weeks lose your mojo? Woodruff has not been his Cy Young caliber since being sick/hurt. Can anyone slumping just turn it on right away? Maybe. But not too easy for a lot of guys

I have found zero evidence that it does. So have others far smarter than I am: https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/09/14/cleveland-indians-los-angeles-dodgers-playoff-odds

There is no relationship between how a team finishes its season and how it plays in the playoffs. Recency bias didn't stop the 2000 Yankees or 2006 Cardinals.

Take the White Sox, for example. Despite injuries off and on to key players all year, they've had this division wrapped for quite a while. They're fielding different lineups, keeping guys fresh, have gone to a six man rotation and have been slightly meh as of late. They not going all out because why deal with a stupid soft muscle tissue injury going into October? It's stupid.

So Chicago put their varsity lineup out today and were up 7-0 before anyone knew what was happening. It's done, and now they can get guys at bats, work on things, stay fresh and be ready for Houston.

Apart from that, I'm not sure why you'd fall back on a World Series pick you made months ago based on the small sample size of results this week.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I mean don't the Brewers have home field advantage to play for right now? There was an outside shot they could have taken it but not now, I guess. Getting absolutely outclassed by the 2nd team in your division ain't a great look. They'll probably still make it farther than the Cards but I wouldn't put any money on them getting past either NL West team right now.

 

[Dale]

I have found zero evidence that it does. So have others far smarter than I am: https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/09/14/cl...s-playoff-odds

There is no relationship between how a team finishes its season and how it plays in the playoffs. Recency bias didn't stop the 2000 Yankees or 2006 Cardinals.

Take the White Sox, for example. Despite injuries off and on to key players all year, they've had this division wrapped for quite a while. They're fielding different lineups, keeping guys fresh, have gone to a six man rotation and have been slightly meh as of late. They not going all out because why deal with a stupid soft muscle tissue injury going into October? It's stupid.

So Chicago put their varsity lineup out today and were up 7-0 before anyone knew what was happening. It's done, and now they can get guys at bats, work on things, stay fresh and be ready for Houston.

Apart from that, I'm not sure why you'd fall back on a World Series pick you made months ago based on the small sample size of results this week.

I never said the Brewers will struggle in the postseason due to their September play. I said maybe they will, maybe they can turn it on. I love numbers, you can see I reference them all the time. I’m also not going to ignore just playing sports and watching. So again some teams, based on personality can certainly flip a switch. Some cannot. That was my only point.

I’m also not going to go by a lack of context SI correlation model. I would not have referenced the 2006 Cards to a Cardinals fan lol. Cardinals struggled in September of that year without Eckstein and Edmonds. What did Eckstein do when he came back? Well just won the WS MVP. Isringhausen battled through injury before finally OFY near the end, who became closer at the end and was situated come playoff time? Adam Wainwright of course. This topic is really just not something a correlation model I feel is the right place for.

 

[Irish2155]

They must have heard me bitching. Two in a row and reclaimed the final WC slot with the BJ's dropping one to TB. Interesting that they night before when the BJ's beat TB, the BJ's walked 11 and still won.

Jays dropping one to the Twins last night helps.

 

[Rogue219]

I mean don't the Brewers have home field advantage to play for right now? There was an outside shot they could have taken it but not now, I guess. Getting absolutely outclassed by the 2nd team in your division ain't a great look. They'll probably still make it farther than the Cards but I wouldn't put any money on them getting past either NL West team right now.

I don't think there is value in home field like there is in football and basketball. They asked Tony LaRussa about it and he basically said in so many words all that matters is you get in. If you're in, you're good enough to win it. Which I agree with completely.

Wasn't it in 2019 that the WS went seven games and the home team won zero games?

 

[Rogue219]

I never said the Brewers will struggle in the postseason due to their September play. I said maybe they will, maybe they can turn it on. I love numbers, you can see I reference them all the time. I’m also not going to ignore just playing sports and watching. So again some teams, based on personality can certainly flip a switch. Some cannot. That was my only point.

I’m also not going to go by a lack of context SI correlation model. I would not have referenced the 2006 Cards to a Cardinals fan lol. Cardinals struggled in September of that year without Eckstein and Edmonds. What did Eckstein do when he came back? Well just won the WS MVP. Isringhausen battled through injury before finally OFY near the end, who became closer at the end and was situated come playoff time? Adam Wainwright of course. This topic is really just not something a correlation model I feel is the right place for.

I'm a total dumbstick and no longer know what we're even talking about. Cheers.

 

[Rogue219]

It appears the San Diego Padres are going to finish under 500 this year. If they had pulled off that Scherzer deal in July who knows if things could've been different for them.

Machado seems like he's kind of a problem. Maybe Chicago dodged a bullet there considering they're in the playoffs and San Diego is not.

Very interesting to see what their winter looks in San Diego.

 

[ACamp1900]

Sucks,... that city deserves to have SOMETHING... I hope they stay the course but doubt they can chase the Dodgers, who will prob sign every single free agent this offseason (intended to be only slightly hyperbolic).

 

[Dale]

It appears the San Diego Padres are going to finish under 500 this year. If they had pulled off that Scherzer deal in July who knows if things could've been different for them.

Machado seems like he's kind of a problem. Maybe Chicago dodged a bullet there considering they're in the playoffs and San Diego is not.

Very interesting to see what their winter looks in San Diego.

How has Machado been a problem?

 

[Irishize]

It appears the San Diego Padres are going to finish under 500 this year. If they had pulled off that Scherzer deal in July who knows if things could've been different for them.

Machado seems like he's kind of a problem. Maybe Chicago dodged a bullet there considering they're in the playoffs and San Diego is not.

Very interesting to see what their winter looks in San Diego.

I get that Machado can rub fans the wrong way but even as a Dodgers fan I think he’s the best all around 3B in MLB…even better than Arenado when it comes to all five tools.

 

[Irishize]

Sucks,... that city deserves to have SOMETHING... I hope they stay the course but doubt they can chase the Dodgers, who will prob sign every single free agent this offseason (intended to be only slightly hyperbolic).

Maybe if the Angels signed some of those free agents they could field a contender.

The Dodgers drafted Kershaw, Urias, Buehler, Jansen & Dustin May. May had TJ but the others have been contributors this season and two are CY Young candidates. They converted Jansen from a catcher late in his development.

They also drafted & developed Will Smith, Gavin Lux, Corey Seager & Cody Bellinger (who has sunk to Chris Davis levels this season).

Now look at the contributors who were afterthoughts that developed into All-Stars in LA:

Justin Turner was waived by the Mets
Chris Taylor kept getting demoted to AAA by the Mariners before they traded him to LA for a former 1st round pitcher who’s out of baseball now.
Max Muncy was released by the A’s

Maybe the Dodgers uniform is just a good luck charm but how probable is it that all three of them went from the trash heap to multi-million dollar contracts when they arrived in LA?

Betts was obviously signed to a long term contract after being traded by the BoSox…so there’s one FA.

Beating out SD for Scherzer & Trea Turner may end of being one of the best deadline trades ever. LA still has to sign them to keep them long-term so we shall see.

I get you hate the Dodgers. That’s fine. But to suggest they just buy players like their NBA counterpart in LA is ignorant. They’ve always had a fertile farm system which is the lifeblood of any organization. Then you got to have the right GM to turn the right knobs & pull the right levers.

Doesn’t matter this year anyways. If the Giants are not a team of destiny I don’t know what is. I swear they haven’t lost a game in six months & will be lucky to have one player from that roster (Posey?) that ends up in the HOF.

 

[Irish#1]

Looks like the Pinstripes got it righted again. Two game lead with tree left. Watch them start down the roller coaster as soon as the playoffs begin.

Really wish MLB would do something about the schedule so the playoffs start mid-September or tad earlier.

 

[Rogue219]

I get that Machado can rub fans the wrong way but even as a Dodgers fan I think he’s the best all around 3B in MLB…even better than Arenado when it comes to all five tools.

Machado just had his best season as a Padre. By far. He's obviously a talent. There is a narrative surrounding him and much of that is his own doing. I just don't know if giving anyone outside of Mike Trout that kind of money and years is a wise thing. Especially the years. He can opt out after 2023, so we'll see what happens these next two years. Should be interesting. AJ Preller has a knack for not standing pat. I'm sure they're in too deep to stop now.

Chicago missed out on Machado, but if Mr. Moncada find his power and continues to improve his plate discipline and defense, a new sheriff could be coming to town. Chicago just won their division and San Diego is going to finish under 500. Any disappointment Chicago had in missing on Machado is well in the past.

The best third baseman this year has been Jose Ramirez. His best season since his monster 2018. Sadly, Cleveland totally dismantled everything around him so nobody knows. He just turned 29 this past month. Not sure what the future holds for him, but my guess would be he never wears a Guardians uniform and gets traded this winter if the pattern holds.

 

[Rogue219]

Maybe if the Angels signed some of those free agents they could field a contender.

The Dodgers drafted Kershaw, Urias, Buehler, Jansen & Dustin May. May had TJ but the others have been contributors this season and two are CY Young candidates. They converted Jansen from a catcher late in his development.

They also drafted & developed Will Smith, Gavin Lux, Corey Seager & Cody Bellinger (who has sunk to Chris Davis levels this season).

Now look at the contributors who were afterthoughts that developed into All-Stars in LA:

Justin Turner was waived by the Mets
Chris Taylor kept getting demoted to AAA by the Mariners before they traded him to LA for a former 1st round pitcher who’s out of baseball now.
Max Muncy was released by the A’s

Maybe the Dodgers uniform is just a good luck charm but how probable is it that all three of them went from the trash heap to multi-million dollar contracts when they arrived in LA?

Betts was obviously signed to a long term contract after being traded by the BoSox…so there’s one FA.

Beating out SD for Scherzer & Trea Turner may end of being one of the best deadline trades ever. LA still has to sign them to keep them long-term so we shall see.

I get you hate the Dodgers. That’s fine. But to suggest they just buy players like their NBA counterpart in LA is ignorant. They’ve always had a fertile farm system which is the lifeblood of any organization. Then you got to have the right GM to turn the right knobs & pull the right levers.

Doesn’t matter this year anyways. If the Giants are not a team of destiny I don’t know what is. I swear they haven’t lost a game in six months & will be lucky to have one player from that roster (Posey?) that ends up in the HOF.

Which they do.