The boys of summer! (Baseball Thread)

[Irishize]

I'm glad Andrew Friedman wins one. Deserves credit for winning one, as other smart GMs have won with big bankrolls too and are beloved. He took chicken shit and turned it to chicken salad in Tampa. Great partnership with Farhan Zaidi in LA and guys who have worked for Friedman are landing in other spots now running their own teams, and running them well.

Obviously glad for Kershaw because his winning one, with the 24 other guys, shuts up a narrative that while ignorant has remained persistent.

I'd want Mookie Betts on my team. That's just me, though.

Rays GM Erik Neander is a good one too. $28M payroll. Incredible.

Glad we got to see a season. Now we see what the hell happens next.

Agreed. The fans who cry about money haven’t paid attention to the history of baseball. Does spending more money help? It sure does...if you select the correct players. The Yankees were always hated for “buying” championships but no one bothers to acknowledge that Steinbrenner threw millions at some horrible free agents & trades (Dave Collins, Ken Griffey, Omar Moreno, Tim Foli, Butch Wynegar, Eddie Whitson, Shane Rawley, etc) and had nothing to show for it from 1982-1992. This was before the skyrocketing free agency that existed after this era and today so the Yanks had very few competitions (if any) who were willing to throw money around like he was. You still have to throw the money at the right players. King George failed to do this back then.

Then you have some of the wealthiest owners (Twins, Marlins, Royals for ex) in MLB who refuse to spend the money to build a championship contender & pocket the profit-sharing revenue they receive from the big market teams like the evil Yankees, Dodgers & BoSox. The Twins owner (Carl Pohlad) was one of the wealthiest men in America according to Forbes yet he was always trying to sell his team out to the highest bidder and refused to invest in the team like he could. He passed away in 2009.

Despite Pohlad’s refusal to infuse big money into his team, the Twins won two WS (‘87,’91).

The Royals won in ‘85 & ‘14

The Marlins won in ‘97 & ‘03

The Phillies won in ‘08

The Angels won in ‘02

The ChiSox won in ‘05

None of the above teams had to spend on the level of what the Yanks, BoSox & Dodgers have done yet were able to win it all.

 

[Irishize]

I don’t think anyone hates CK,... the trolls come out every October but that’s just internet bullshit. People hate his team and fan base tho,....

I’m speaking to casual sports fans. Most around me don’t follow baseball closely enough to realize what they’re even talking about. I even have friends that sincerely tell me “Man Kershaw just can’t perform in the post season”. He’s no Koufax but he’s also not as bad as casual fans (and trolls as you say) like to portray. They don’t remember the innings that Torre & Mattingly put on his arm when he was all they had as far as dominant pitching back in his prime. It’s all good. Probably bothered fans more than it did Clayton.

 

[ACamp1900]

Agreed. The fans who cry about money haven’t paid attention to the history of baseball. Does spending more money help? It sure does...if you select the correct players. The Yankees were always hated for “buying” championships but no one bothers to acknowledge that Steinbrenner threw millions at some horrible free agents & trades (Dave Collins, Ken Griffey, Omar Moreno, Tim Foli, Butch Wynegar, Eddie Whitson, Shane Rawley, etc) and had nothing to show for it from 1982-1992. This was before the skyrocketing free agency that existed after this era and today so the Yanks had very few competitions (if any) who were willing to throw money around like he was. You still have to throw the money at the right players. King George failed to do this back then.

Then you have some of the wealthiest owners (Twins, Marlins, Royals for ex) in MLB who refuse to spend the money to build a championship contender & pocket the profit-sharing revenue they receive from the big market teams like the evil Yankees, Dodgers & BoSox. The Twins owner (Carl Pohlad) was one of the wealthiest men in America according to Forbes yet he was always trying to sell his team out to the highest bidder and refused to invest in the team like he could. He passed away in 2009.

Despite Pohlad’s refusal to infuse big money into his team, the Twins won two WS (‘87,’91).

The Royals won in ‘85 & ‘14

The Marlins won in ‘97 & ‘03

The Phillies won in ‘08

The Angels won in ‘02

The ChiSox won in ‘05

None of the above teams had to spend on the level of what the Yanks, BoSox & Dodgers have done yet were able to win it all.

The 97 Marlins were a high payroll team but whatever, none of those teams sustained their success and the Dodgers have been in the NCLS or better how many years running now??? It’s because they out spent everyone not named Yankees (idc if it’s extending home grown or few agents),... the fact they were even in the Mookie trade sweepstakes is reason enough to force a salary cap,... just two cents

 

[Rogue219]

The 97 Marlins were a high payroll team but whatever, none of those teams sustained their success and the Dodgers have been in the NCLS or better how many years running now??? It’s because they out spent everyone not named Yankees (idk it’s it’s extending home grown or few agents),... the fact they were even in the Mookie trade sweepstakes is reason enough to force a salary cap,... just two cents

They also turned Turner, Muncy and Smith into better players by way of analytics and coaching.

For whatever it may be worth: The last three World Series winners have

1. Had a player with a $200 M+ contract
2. Ranked in the top-four in MLB payroll

 

[Rogue219]

It is a slam dunk. Unless there’s going to be a new referendum on current HOFers who struggled in post-season play or just failed to be on a winning championship team. The list would fill this thread. Ted Williams is one that jumps to mind. Horrible WS performance in 1946 and he was embarrassed by it. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t the greatest pure hitter of the modern era.

Just looking at starters:

Don Sutton, Fergie Jenkins, Juan Marichal never won a World Series. Zack Greinke and Jacob deGrom have not won one yet to date.

Clemens was roided up and on the Yankees when he got his. The Braves Trio got one in the 1995 strike shortened season and had additional bites at the apple.

I think the entire discussion is silly. Kershaw is one of the best pitchers of his era regardless of last night.

 

[Rogue219]

I’m speaking to casual sports fans. Most around me don’t follow baseball closely enough to realize what they’re even talking about. I even have friends that sincerely tell me “Man Kershaw just can’t perform in the post season”. He’s no Koufax but he’s also not as bad as casual fans (and trolls as you say) like to portray. They don’t remember the innings that Torre & Mattingly put on his arm when he was all they had as far as dominant pitching back in his prime. It’s all good. Probably bothered fans more than it did Clayton.

You have a lot of people that only watch in October or watch much more closely, so they see the small sample size of playoffs games as the end all be all of a player. You might see a starting pitcher twice in a series and if he's brutal in those appearances, the average goof that paid zero attention from April through September is inclined to think the guy is "overpaid" or he "choked". These water cooler conversations have been going on for decades and even with analytics now dominating the sport, they're never going to stop.

The World Series is a minimum of four games, max of seven. Taking that impression and forming any kind of absolute opinion about a player is pure nonsense.

The war is over and the bozos lost.

 

[ACamp1900]

I don’t think anyone worth anything to the discussion thought CK was anything but a 1st bal HoFer coming into this year. Again the hot takes bullshiters and internet trolls will always find something,... but they’re not important imo

 

[mango4]

Twins will win the world series next season

Yeah, I'm a Twins homer but no way that's happening. They should just try to win a playoff game first.

 

[Rogue219]

I don’t think anyone worth anything to the discussion thought CK was anything but a 1st bal HoFer coming into this year. Again the hot takes bullshiters and internet trolls will always find something,... but they’re not important imo

Winning this World Series cleans some demons out of the haunted attic and while the more vocal critics fo Kershaw are aging and phasing out, they were still present. The HOF was never in question, but I'm sure had he not won a WS there would be that lack of validation on his resume simply because. Too many of these goofs still have audiences far and wide.

Baseball has not quite eradicated all of it's dinosaurs, but each year they seem to get closer and closer to the vaccine so many have longed for.

And with that, the White Sox will hire Tony LaRussa and America can't have nice things.

 

[ACamp1900]

I could use some dinosaurs honestly if the battle is between the old school and this math nerd, launch angle, strike out fest, Monster they are calling baseball currently,... I can’t wait until someone gets bold enough to go full on Whitey Ball and wins a pennant,... ‘but, but, but,... the algorithms say,....’

 

[stpeteirish]

Twins will win the world series next season

you misspelled Braves

 

[Irishize]

Winning this World Series cleans some demons out of the haunted attic and while the more vocal critics fo Kershaw are aging and phasing out, they were still present. The HOF was never in question, but I'm sure had he not won a WS there would be that lack of validation on his resume simply because. Too many of these goofs still have audiences far and wide.

Baseball has not quite eradicated all of it's dinosaurs, but each year they seem to get closer and closer to the vaccine so many have longed for.

And with that, the White Sox will hire Tony LaRussa and America can't have nice things.

I read/heard LaRussa is part of an ownership group looking for a franchise in Charlotte or Nashville. Gotta think that’s more appealing than managing again.

 

[Irishize]

They also turned Turner, Muncy and Smith into better players by way of analytics and coaching.

For whatever it may be worth: The last three World Series winners have

1. Had a player with a $200 M+ contract
2. Ranked in the top-four in MLB payroll

I think you meant Chris Taylor but your point is well taken. All three changed their mechanics when they arrived in LA and it changed their careers for the better. Throw in Kiké Hernandez to that bunch as he wasn’t exactly in high demand when he landed in LA either.

Turner was a journeyman w/ the Orioles/Reds/Mets
Taylor was a no hit/good glove utility-man w/ the Mariners
Muncy had been released by the A’s
Kiké came up through Astros system and then bounced to the Marlins before being a contributor in LA.
Jansen was a catcher who they transitioned to closer b/c of his arm (or what used to be his arm)

 

[Irishize]

Just looking at starters:

Don Sutton, Fergie Jenkins, Juan Marichal never won a World Series. Zack Greinke and Jacob deGrom have not won one yet to date.

Clemens was roided up and on the Yankees when he got his. The Braves Trio got one in the 1995 strike shortened season and had additional bites at the apple.

I think the entire discussion is silly. Kershaw is one of the best pitchers of his era regardless of last night.

Sutton was on the Dodgers ‘88 roster but not on their postseason roster. I suspect they gave him a ring but you’re right he wasn’t truly on a WS winner. His timing was horrible. Rookie season was Koufax’s last season when they got beat by B’more in the WS. Lost to the A’s three-year buzz saw of domination in 1974 and then fell to the Yankees in back-to-back WS in ‘77-‘78.

Dodgers finally win in ‘81 but he was in his first season w/ the Astros. Then makes it back again in 1982 w/ the Brewers who fell to the Cardinals (that was a great WS). Maybe it was karma for being a douchebag to teammates. He was a helluva pitcher though.

 

[Irishize]

The 97 Marlins were a high payroll team but whatever, none of those teams sustained their success and the Dodgers have been in the NCLS or better how many years running now??? It’s because they out spent everyone not named Yankees (idc if it’s extending home grown or few agents),... the fact they were even in the Mookie trade sweepstakes is reason enough to force a salary cap,... just two cents

Money definitely helps and puts a team at an advantage but it’s not guarantee I was just pointing out that some franchises w/ owners just as wealthy or wealthier than winning franchises just refuse to spend.

Of course now it’s more ownership groups vs some old rich white guy. There’s no rules against other teams spending more money. Some can’t and some won’t. There’s already profit sharing and none of the owners are held accountable as to what they do w/ their cut.

I’d be open to a salary cap debate but to say it’s a panacea is a bridge too far for me. I just look at the NBA & NFL and see more repeat winners there than MLB. Plus, the MLBPA is the strongest union in the world; they’d never agree to a cap and would play the “evil, white, billionaire racist owners” card.

 

[Rogue219]

This Dodger team has won how many divisions in a row? Is this era? Money or not, they're doing something right. Most recently I'd say it's hiring the two guys running their front office.

 

[Rogue219]

I could use some dinosaurs honestly if the battle is between the old school and this math nerd, launch angle, strike out fest, Monster they are calling baseball currently,... I can’t wait until someone gets bold enough to go full on Whitey Ball and wins a pennant,... ‘but, but, but,... the algorithms say,....’

There is no battle. War was over a long time ago.

Punch and Judy ball versus today's pitching? Comedy Central.

 

[ACamp1900]

This Dodger team has won how many divisions in a row? Is this era? Money or not, they're doing something right. Most recently I'd say it's hiring the two guys running their front office.

They’re spending like drunken sailors,... that’s what they’re doing right ... lol

 

[zelezo vlk]

Cardinals declined Kolten Wong's option for next year. Bad move

 

[Rogue219]

They’re spending like drunken sailors,... that’s what they’re doing right ... lol

You hadn't mentioned this before. Tell me more.

 

[ACamp1900]

You hadn't mentioned this before. Tell me more.

All the moneys,...

Also, Duck the Fodgers.

Lol. I’m very bitter right now. Living amongst suffering Doyer fans was one of the few things keeping my ND, Browns, Angels fan ass from jumping off a building,... stupid ass Braves

 

[Rogue219]

All the moneys,...

Also, Duck the Fodgers.

Lol. I’m very bitter right now. Living amongst suffering Doyer fans was one of the few things keeping my ND, Browns, Angels fan ass from jumping off a building,... stupid ass Braves

I figured as much.

During their 8 year run, five different teams have won the AL East at least once. Winning this World Series flips the narrative on a lot of people. We'll see if they're here to stay a bit longer. San Diego may have something to say about it soon.

 

[ACamp1900]

They bought it however,... that’s the truth.

Lol

 

[Irishize]

All the moneys,...

Also, Duck the Fodgers.

Lol. I’m very bitter right now. Living amongst suffering Doyer fans was one of the few things keeping my ND, Browns, Angels fan ass from jumping off a building,... stupid ass Braves

I’d be bitter too. I’ve never lived in Cali but outside that state, I can’t imagine the Dodgers being more universally hated than Notre Dame football. I live in SEC country where most follow the Braves, Cubs or Cardinals. Guarantee you they hate ND more than they hate the Dodgers.

 

[Irishize]

There is no battle. War was over a long time ago.

Punch and Judy ball versus today's pitching? Comedy Central.

Jeff Frye disagrees. #SheGone

LOL

 

[Rogue219]

In the spirit of Halloween and the Chicago White Sox, I am going to attempt to raise Earl Weaver from the dead.

 

[Rogue219]

No shocker here, but the Tigers are likely to name AJ Hinch as manager before the end of the day.

Heard the Angels are looking at Jared Porter from the D Backs to interview for GM. This would be a very wise move to have a convo with him. Future GM, just depends on for whom.

Maybe Angels wait for Rick Hahn to quit the White Sox?

 

[Irish2155]

So, the Sox fire Cora just to rehire him back...?? Certainly not upset but surprised.

He's a World Series winning coach already who would probably have his pick of job openings. He must really like Boston a lot to come back given that shit show of a pitching staff...

 

[Irishize]

So, the Sox fire Cora just to rehire him back...?? Certainly not upset but surprised.

He's a World Series winning coach already who would probably have his pick of job openings. He must really like Boston a lot to come back given that shit show of a pitching staff...

Yes, that was brilliantly timed by Boston. Friday news dump at a time when a contentious POTUS election even trumps (no pun intended) a pandemic.

 

[Rogue219]

Boston was never considering anyone else. And the news dump might be one of the most epic in history.

The White Sox hire went from embarrassing to worse.

Meanwhile, the Tigers hired AJ Hinch and have immediately gone to hiring a field staff which includes Michigan pitching coach Chris Fetters.

Let your front office people do their jobs. Simple concept.