'Suicide by Cop' in Idaho - Video

[Fbolt]

Tueller Drill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Tueller Drill
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Tueller Drill is a self-defense training exercise to prepare against a short-range knife attack when armed only with a holstered handgun.

Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department wondered how quickly an attacker with a knife could cover 21 feet (6.4 m), so he timed volunteers as they raced to stab the target. He determined that it could be done in 1.5 seconds. These results were first published as an article in SWAT magazine in 1983 and in a police training video by the same title, "How Close is Too Close?"[1]

A defender with a gun has a dilemma. If he shoots too early, he risks being charged with murder. If he waits until the attacker is definitely within striking range so there is no question about motives, he risks injury and even death. The Tueller experiments quantified a "danger zone" where an attacker presented a clear threat.[2]

The Tueller Drill combines both parts of the original time trials by Tueller. There are several ways it can be conducted:[3]

The "attacker and shooter are positioned back-to-back. At the signal, the attacker sprints away from the shooter, and the shooter unholsters his gun and shoots at the target 21 feet (6.4 m) in front of him. The attacker stops as soon as the shot is fired. The shooter is successful only if his shot is good and if the runner did not cover 21 feet (6.4 m).
A more stressful arrangement is to have the attacker begin 21 feet (6.4 m) behind the shooter and run towards the shooter. The shooter is successful only if he was able take a good shot before he is tapped on the back by the attacker.
If the shooter is armed with only a training replica gun, a full-contact drill may be done with the attacker running towards the shooter. In this variation, the shooter should practice side-stepping the attacker while he is drawing the gun.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wmZj6dYrNzk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Fbolt]

The video above is obviously training and I wonder how accurate it is to the Tueller Drill. BTW, I agree with the officer's actions.



Waiting for ideas on how birth control is going to solve deer overpopulation problems in suburban areas from some members.

 

[Fbolt]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9igSoJHEdUo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[BobD]

Trained shoot to kill. If it's me or him, it's going to be him, sadly.

Getting shot by Mr. McGibblets would be bizarre. I could see Rafi or Dirty Randy, but not McGibblets.

 

[D-BOE34]

Fight or Flight...

Personally, I hate guns because I am scared of my reaction if I carried. Being that I can't trust myself, I take my chances. Instead, I have placed knives throughout my place for an intruder. I know, if you come in my home and pose a threat, I can do what is necessary to save my life.

Why can't a cop protect himself if he gives more than enough commands/action for you to surrender? State of mind is off? Then how is he to determine what you are capable of? What can he do less of to protect himself and you without losing his life?

Bring in his back up? In a small space, it seems like an easier opportunity to connect with the hand weapon than if there was one cop. He asked about back doors and entry ways for a reason. I assume not just for exit but entry for his men.

I side with the cop. Hope he doesn't lose years of life over this. Also pray for the family. Sad all around.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

The cop didnt barge his way into the house and make the guy uncomfortable. He easily could have ran into the house, turned the corner and put the gun on the guy. But he tried to talk him down, no response. So he turned the corner is a passive/calm way. Tried to talk him down again. Then the man with a weapon paid to no attention to anything the cop said and came at him with a knife. Im not sure what else the cop was supposed to do. Like someone said, its not a movie and and things arent scripted out. Its a situation where both partys lifes were at stake.

If you take the kids out of the equation, I think the public sees this differently to be honest. Tough situation all the way around, but its a damn shame what happened, but both people made a decision, and the one doing his job is forced to deal with a backlash.

 

[irishtrooper]

The cop didnt barge his way into the house and make the guy uncomfortable. He easily could have ran into the house, turned the corner and put the gun on the guy. But he tried to talk him down, no response. So he turned the corner is a passive/calm way. Tried to talk him down again. Then the man with a weapon paid to no attention to anything the cop said and came at him with a knife. Im not sure what else the cop was supposed to do. Like someone said, its not a movie and and things arent scripted out. Its a situation where both partys lifes were at stake.

If you take the kids out of the equation, I think the public sees this differently to be honest. Tough situation all the way around, but its a damn shame what happened, but both people made a decision, and the one doing his job is forced to deal with a backlash.

Well stated and completely accurate. If you realize that ALL officers are trained to shoot to kill and not to shoot people in the knee or foot, then you realize this officer had no other option. I love that people here mention that the officer should just retreat outside. Let me tell you why that is a bad choice. How does that same person react when the suspect arms himself with a gun and kills innocent people or commits suicide? Then this same guy says" well the officer was already in there and he did nothing, just left him in there by himself." The point is that the officer handled this situation EXACTLY as he was trained and as he should have. The outcome is tragic and believe me, not one officer enjoys even having to draw their weapon let alone fire it. There is no chance this officer is indicted. He will be on paid leave until the legal process runs its due and go through counseling to deal with having had to take another person's life. Let's consider the facts here:
#1 the officer was sent there to deal with a mentally unstable person
#2 he tried calmly to get the person to come out and when that failed approached cautiously
#3 the guy clearly had a DEADLY weapon in close proximty(anybody watch the knife video?)
#4 the guy was moving toward the officer, even at a slow speed the gap was shrinking
#5 the officer did what he should have and what he was trained to do

When you consider that at any moment this mentally unstable person could have made a move and killed the officer within seconds, I do not believe you could come to a conclusion other than he did what was necessary. Police are trained to protect ALL life, good guys, bad guys and their own. He had no other way out of this. Once you decide to taze him (if equipped) , that is your choice and if it is the wrong choice, you die. You have to hope for a good connection and he already had his gun drawn. He would have had to holster, then draw, then target and then fire all before this guy HOPEFULLY doesn't decide to kill him. All other less lethal options are not available at this type of scene and are usually only utilized with approval from a commisioned officer LT or above. Not really feasible to get that set up here. If he tried pepper spray, we would be reading about how that officer was stabbed to death. So happy for the officer that this was all recorded so he isn't wrongly imprisoned because the situation is reacted to as it should have been.

 

[pumpdog20]

The fact that the gun was already drawn in the very beginning leads me to believe that the guy meant harm, or was preceived to be dangerous by his friend who called the cops.

 

[jerboski]

How can anyone say he didn't have an itchy trigger finger? He may have his training to back him up, but the demeanor I saw from the dead individual didn't show aggression at all, IMO even with him approaching the officer. The officer commanded he come into the room. He didn't comply. Then when the officer came around, and made eye contact he complied.
His mom couldn't get him to drop the knives, as she knew he was going to hurt himself. So she called a police officer hoping his authoritative stance would cause compliance. The cop then started to get weird. Even with the woman. If he was sketched out, why didn't he call for back-up that was sitting outside the house?

If I was on the jury, I would need serious consideration as to whether or not the officer could have avoided the situation. I would also like to know why other officers weren't inside with him. Those are all interesting portions to draw a conclusion.

He never complied, the officer told him to drop the knife several times and refused. The cop continued to back up while the individual continued to advance, although not quickly he was still not complying to any lawful orders being given by the officer. The officer even yelled at him that he would shoot him if he did not drop the knife!

The officer did call for backup and even said I need you in the house right away, backup could have been still arriving or not on scene yet, most police departments don't ride with partners, you are assigned a district and a district partner however that partner isn't riding with you or always on scene with you as is the case on this call.

The other thing most if not all police departments train to shoot center mass, no leg shots or any of that business, they shoot to stop the threat which is what happened here. Lastly, officers are trained not to use tasers in deadly force situations unless they have a backup officer with lethal force equipped hence the reason the officer elected to use deadly force.

 

[pumpdog20]

At least in Iowa, you are not allowed "warning" shots. If you shoot, you shoot to kill. Shooting purposely at a leg or other extremity could be considered a warning shot.

 

[jerboski]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SU_ZROHCk4

here is the video that a few have brought up, its very violent and disturbing so watch with caution. I will never forget seeing this video in the Academy

I posted as a link due to the nature of the video