Should BVG Be Fired?

[Blazers46]

Somebody voted NO?

 

[Grahambo]

I would do my best to go after Luke Fickell but hey, what do I know?

 

[arahop]

hack saw jim duggan and Longo can kick rocks

 

[gkautz10]

We can all argue scheme this and that until we are all blue in the face. But when you really break it down into the fundamentals of the game on the defensive side of the ball, notre dame has consistently struggled or flat out failed. Tackling, getting nasty and getting a stop when needed, and just plain coming out and performing on a consistent basis at a high level. I completely understand and agree that some players turn out to be not as good as advertised or they struggle in some other aspect of the transition into college which hinders their development on the field. And in that aspect is where I think notre dame fails and always will. However it seems that the defensive players since bvg came to notre dame, seem to be failing or not developing more frequently. That is bvg's fault and he should be held accountable. The same shit that Weis said "we are going to be far superior with the X's and O's than any team out here" is the same damn thing van gorder is doing and it just isn't true! Bvg is not doing his job, he is not developing these student athletes into good football players. It isn't his job to make sure these kids go to class, that falls ultimately on bk. His sole focus is developing a strong defensive scheme and teaching it to the players.

Notre dame will continue to not develop players on the football field like other schools because they want the players to focus on academics first. If the freshman are struggling to adapt to college life and class, then their football suffers, as it should. Other schools say, screw the academics, we will get that worked out for you, focus on football. That is the ultimate problem.

 

[ginman]

I don't pretend to know enough to answer this, but I do have some questions in general for those who do:

How complex can a college defense be when there is limited practice time due to competing demands of classes (for some schools)?

Is this defensive scheme more complex than what is used in the schools with the generally best defenses?

If we are playing a scheme that players were not recruited for 3-4 v. 4-3 seems like we would want to get them as much playing time as possible unless scheme is prohibitive I would think?

What is a reasonable amount of time to transition a defense given all the changes?
thanks

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

One thing I'd like to suggest before talking about the defense is running back next year. If Folston and Proise both come back that leaves limitied carries for Adams. Why not cross train Adams at running back and LB? Also with Brent, I don't see him getting reps at RB next year so either move him back to slot or move him to safety.

A few things I question this year. Why weren't guys like Nick Watkins, Trembetti, Bonner, Nyles Morgan, Martini playing a lot more than they did? Nyles Morgan played well last year when called upon. Look at Trembetti and Bonner yesterday they both had quite a few nice plays.

D-Line. We should have tons of young talent and overall pretty good depth and leadership. I see the starters being Trembetti, Rochell, Jarron Jones, and Tillery. Cage will fill in backing up Jones and Tillery. Guys like Hayes, Bonner, Blanekship, Randolph, and some of the young guys like Kareem, Hayes, Okwara, Elijah Tayor, Treadway, Tissasum, should all provide plenty of depth.

LB- you got Onuwala coming back filling his position. Anyone who replaces Joe Schmidt is an upgrade I think. You need a quick athletic guy who is going to make plays, not miss tackles. Whether that's Bilal, or someone else who knows. You'll have Onuwala, Bilal, Coney, martini, Morgan, Barajas. Depth is pretty thin with a lot of unkowns.

DB- I like where we will be at next year for DBs. it will be smart if Russell did come back but whether he does or not I like where we stand. Luke will start at One spot at Corner Back. The other spot you have butler, Watkins, or Colemon. Peronsally I'd like to see Butler moved to Safety. Have your CB depth be Luke, Colemon, Watkins and 2-3 of the Freshman coming in. Which I personally think this Freshman DB class coming is is loaded. At Safety. Crawford comes back from injury he can be your nickle back which I think he is going to shine for us. Have Redfield at one of the other safety spots along with Butler. You also and Tranquil for depth and Williams who I think could end up starting next year. Throw in some of those stud freshman for added depth and it looks a lot better.

 

[Senoj13]

Here is my question. For a good defensive team, how many points should the offense score and be expected to win? They needed to score over 30 to beat both Pitt and USC. They needed a last minute miracle to beat UVA. 36 points was not enough to beat Stanford and 28 wasn't even close enough to beat Ohio State.

Mike Sanford appears to be a great hire on the offensive side of the ball that no one saw coming. There has to be other candidates out there who can step in here on defense. I don't buy the idea that no one would want to come to ND and coach.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You realize they were without 7 defensive starters today, right? Let's cut off 7 of your fingers and see how well you enjoy jerking yourself silly.

Forget the OSU game. BVG has NFL talent and produced an average defense. Many teams with inferior talent have better defenses.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Forget the OSU game. BVG has NFL talent and produced an average defense. Many teams with inferior talent have better defenses.

100% agree. NDs backups were rated a ton higher than most of the teams on its schedule's starters.

Honestly, BVG was gone to me when he let NW run all over ND. That was humiliating.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Yep, and there have been several humiliating performances by this defense under BVG. I'll be much more disappointed in BK if he keeps BVG because they've been buddies for 20 some years.

 

[kmoose]

They needed a last minute miracle to beat UVA.

You really think that a Sluggo route to Will Fuller is a "miracle"? Have you seen Fuller play this year? Kelly said in his post Virginia game presser that the corner on that side had been jumping the slant route for most of the game, and they knew that he was going to be vulnerable to the sluggo route.

But to answer your question: From my point of view, and only mine: An outstanding offense will average 30+ points per game. And I would expect my defense to give up less than 20 points a game. That may seem a little high, but college football is an offensive playground, and it's really HARD to defend against every system out there.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Yep, and there have been several humiliating performances by this defense under BVG. I'll be much more disappointed in BK if he keeps BVG because they've been buddies for 20 some years.

Which you have to believe had an impact on BK hiring him in the first place. Sure wasnt BVGs shinning defensive coaching success

 

[Grahambo]

Yep, and there have been several humiliating performances by this defense under BVG. I'll be much more disappointed in BK if he keeps BVG because they've been buddies for 20 some years.

This is pretty much what ISD has said in the past. To not expect a change because BK doesn't fire anybody and the best hope we have, at least as of right now is for BVG to up and leave on his own.

 

[Irish8248]

You see? Every time I read this fallacy, I am tempted to completely dismiss anything else the person has to say about the scheme. Because they obviously don't understand the zone blitz scheme. In the zone blitz scheme, the dropping Linemen are NOT "covering" anyone. They are simply occupying space so that there is not an open throwing lane for the QB to exploit. They may move around a little, as they read the QB's eyes, but they are not covering anyone. So I wish people would stop saying they are.

Not true. You drop in zone first then cover any man in that zone. So. While you're right in that they're not responsible for A man, they are however responsible for ANY man who ruins in that zone

 

[IrishLion]

I voted as "undecided" because I really value continuity, and the defense was actually okay except for the turnovers and sacks categories.

The defense should take a [big] step forward next year because:
-another year in the system will be good in general
-the unit should be healthier than it was this year
-there will be better athletes at nearly every open position, with the exception of Jaylon's spot
-the three above should result in improvement in terms of generating turnovers
-the defense may need to be "dumbed down" due to the loss of Joe Schmidt, which should help let these guys fly around more efficiently

The reason I'm undecided, though, is because of the way Trumbetti straight balled out when he got an extended look. He was one of maybe three defenders that looked like they belonged on the field against OSU. Dude kept our defense alive nearly on his own late in the game, when ND was still within relative striking defense. WHY IN THE HELL HASN'T HE BEEN PLAYING MORE? And for that matter, it just provided more evidence that things might be *okay* if BVG would quit being such a twat about his system and let some young guys get reps in a rotation, rather than sticking with the anti-rotation policy.

It is mind-bottling.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I voted as "undecided" because I really value continuity, and the defense was actually okay except for the turnovers and sacks categories.

The defense should take a [big] step forward next year because:
-another year in the system will be good in general
-the unit should be healthier than it was this year
-there will be better athletes at nearly every open position, with the exception of Jaylon's spot
-the three above should result in improvement in terms of generating turnovers
-the defense may need to be "dumbed down" due to the loss of Joe Schmidt, which should help let these guys fly around more efficiently

The reason I'm undecided, though, is because of the way Trumbetti straight balled out when he got an extended look. He was one of maybe three defenders that looked like they belonged on the field against OSU. Dude kept our defense alive nearly on his own late in the game, when ND was still within relative striking defense. WHY IN THE HELL HASN'T HE BEEN PLAYING MORE? And for that matter, it just provided more evidence that things might be *okay* if BVG would quit being such a twat about his system and let some young guys get reps in a rotation, rather than sticking with the anti-rotation policy.

It is mind-bottling.

I thought that Andrew has been nursing injuries most of the sesson?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

This is pretty much what ISD has said in the past. To not expect a change because BK doesn't fire anybody and the best hope we have, at least as of right now is for BVG to up and leave on his own.

And I don't see that happening because BVG believes in his system and his son is on the team for another few years. My guess is the guy wants to stay there long enough to be with his son.

 

[Senoj13]

You really think that a Sluggo route to Will Fuller is a "miracle"? Have you seen Fuller play this year? Kelly said in his post Virginia game presser that the corner on that side had been jumping the slant route for most of the game, and they knew that he was going to be vulnerable to the sluggo route.

But to answer your question: From my point of view, and only mine: An outstanding offense will average 30+ points per game. And I would expect my defense to give up less than 20 points a game. That may seem a little high, but college football is an offensive playground, and it's really HARD to defend against every system out there.

I thought it was a miracle more from the standpoint that he was single covered and covered so tightly. I never expected them to allow Fuller to get that open with the game on the line. Was thinking more play off and keep it to a FG try.

 

[kmoose]

The reason I'm undecided, though, is because of the way Trumbetti straight balled out when he got an extended look. He was one of maybe three defenders that looked like they belonged on the field against OSU. Dude kept our defense alive nearly on his own late in the game, when ND was still within relative striking defense. WHY IN THE HELL HASN'T HE BEEN PLAYING MORE? And for that matter, it just provided more evidence that things might be *okay* if BVG would quit being such a twat about his system and let some young guys get reps in a rotation, rather than sticking with the anti-rotation policy.

It is mind-bottling.

But who were you going to take reps away from, to give them to Trumbetti? He played in every game except Georgia Tech. And Rochelle and Okwara actually played pretty well. I don't think Trumbetti's playing time is anything to be up in arms about, personally.

Did you mean mind-boggling?

 

[IrishLion]

But who were you going to take reps away from, to give them to Trumbetti? He played in every game except Georgia Tech. And Rochelle and Okwara actually played pretty well. I don't think Trumbetti's playing time is anything to be up in arms about, personally.

Did you mean mind-boggling?

Trumbetti should have been on the field for every third-and-more-than-four, all year long.

And no. I meant what I typed. Bottling.

Also, my main point was that it was further evidence that avoiding any semblance of a rotational system is laughably bad for a defense like ND's.

 

[GATTACA!]

Trumbetti should have been on the field for every third-and-more-than-four, all year long.

And no. I meant what I typed. Bottling.

Also, my main point was that it was further evidence that avoiding any semblance of a rotational system is laughably bad for a defense like ND's.

No exaggeration, I could not love a human baby more then I love this post.

 

[kmoose]

Trumbetti should have been on the field for every third-and-more-than-four, all year long.

And no. I meant what I typed. Bottling.

Also, my main point was that it was further evidence that avoiding any semblance of a rotational system is laughably bad for a defense like ND's.

Trumbetti played in 12 games this year. I would call that at least a semblance of a rotational system.

 

[IrishLion]

Trumbetti played in 12 games this year. I would call that at least a semblance of a rotational system.

Nyles Morgan and Greer Martini each played in 12 games. Did they play enough? Nope. And that's my point. Trumbetti showed against OSU that he should have been given more PT. And getting athletes enough PT is a failure of BVG's system.

 

[kmoose]

Nyles Morgan and Greer Martini each played in 12 games. Did they play enough? Nope. And that's my point. Trumbetti showed against OSU that he should have been given more PT. And getting athletes enough PT is a failure of BVG's system.

Trumbetti had 4 tackles against OSU, including one sack and 2 QB hurries. Rochelle moved inside and played out of position and still had more tackles. So let's not pretend like Trumbetti looked like Alan Page out there.

 

[NDRock]

Trumbetti had 4 tackles against OSU, including one sack and 2 QB hurries. Rochelle moved inside and played out of position and still had more tackles. So let's not pretend like Trumbetti looked like Alan Page out there.

Those are pretty damn good numbers. I would take that kind of production for a whole season. Would end up with 12 sacks and almost as many tackles per game as our starting ML.

 

[kmoose]

Those are pretty damn good numbers. I would take that kind of production for a whole season. Would end up with 12 sacks and almost as many tackles per game as our starting ML.

Those are good numbers, yes. I didn't mean to insinuate that he did NOT have a good game. But his performance in this one game was supposed to convince us that VanGorder not playing him more during the rest of the season is a sign of VanGorder's incompetence. And I don't think those numbers are THAT good....

 

[koonja]

1 sack and 2 QB hurries is pretty damn good against that OL, considering they were a running team that when did pass, had 3 step drops and quick passes. Stats are meaningless wit out context.

 

[GoldenDomer]

BK just needs to sit down with BVG and tell him to fix the scheme or go. We need a defense that allows guys to fly around and make plays without having to know a million different things.

 

[NDRock]

Those are good numbers, yes. I didn't mean to insinuate that he did NOT have a good game. But his performance in this one game was supposed to convince us that VanGorder not playing him more during the rest of the season is a sign of VanGorder's incompetence. And I don't think those numbers are THAT good....

I do think his unwillingness to get younger guys more PT is a fair criticism. I was fine with guys like Schmidt starting and getting a majority of reps but you've got to find at least a couple of series a game for the younger guys. We're not talking about taking out Our All-Americans at crucial times. It may also help with some of the injuries we have seen at the end of the year the last couple of years. Guys may be getting worn down.

 

[kmoose]

1 sack and 2 QB hurries is pretty damn good against that OL, considering they were a running team that when did pass, had 3 step drops and quick passes. Stats are meaningless wit out context.

How about the context that the Buckeyes gave up 1.5 sacks per game this season?

So tell me again how 1 sack is such a great stat?