Russia Invades Ukraine

[ab2cmiller]

Interesting counter argument that basically says that Trump knows what he's doing. Don't know if I agree. We will see.

 

[drayer54]

Interesting counter argument that basically says that Trump knows what he's doing. Don't know if I agree. We will see.

Must be baloney as he doesn't blame Trump, call him a dictator, and remind us that the fall of Kabul and Biden cuts to Ukraine may have triggered the invasion.

 

[calvegas04]

The attack on Ukraine continues from the trump admin

 

[NDVirginia19]

Looks like we have a deal on billions of mineral rights… Ukraine is not some historical ally and they need us more than we need them. I don’t really care if Trump’s brand of Realpolitik offends your sensibilities, it is better for the American people and their interests than blowing American taxpayers dollars for made up moralism

 

[BuaConstrictor]

made up moralism

Made up moralism? When Ukraine willingly gave up their nukes post Soviet collapse we gave them security and defense assurances. It's not "made up moralism" to stand by our word on that when they are invaded by a country that violated that very agreement.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Looks like we have a deal on billions of mineral rights… Ukraine is not some historical ally and they need us more than we need them. I don’t really care if Trump’s brand of Realpolitik offends your sensibilities, it is better for the American people and their interests than blowing American taxpayers dollars for made up moralism

I'm glad they were able to make a deal. Good for everyone.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Made up moralism? When Ukraine willingly gave up their nukes post Soviet collapse we gave them security and defense assurances. It's not "made up moralism" to stand by our word on that when they are invaded by a country that violated that very agreement.

To be fair, giving up nuclear weapons that you aren’t actually able to employ is not really equivalent to unilateral disarmament. The security assurances of the Budapest Memorandum were entirely non binding and effectively said that we would “bring it up to the UN”. We have given billions of aid.

 

[Irish#1]

 

[Irish#1]

So who's better? Simple question.

Really which areas? What proof? There are numerous studies and polls that show the opposite. Please share the sources for this claim.

lol doesn't make sense who the aggressor is?? That is the KEY issue! You negotiate a peace settlement by having Russia GTFO and leave, you have a peace settlement with Hamas by returning all the hostages. This isn't a hard concept.

I'm not a lib lmao, huge difference between progressive and a lib. Kind of like the difference between MAGA and conservativism, Cal is a conservative and IE MAGA is constantly at odds with him.

Areas that were pro Russia? Go back and read your friend CNN. They mentioned this several times when Russia first invaded.

What Next for Ukraine’s Formerly Pro-Russian Regions?

No matter how the war in Ukraine ends, it’s very difficult to imagine the reemergence of pro-Russian political parties there, leaving a political void in the country’s southeast.

carnegieendowment.org

What are the Ukraine 'separatist' regions at the crux of the Russian invasion

Explaining the "separatist" regions in Ukraine that have been the crux of a Russian invasion.

abcnews.go.com

Russia was wrong and the aggressor. I’ve said from the beginning that I would love for Ukraine to kick their ass and I would love for things to be restored to what they were pre-war.

Once again we’ve reached a point where it doesn’t matter who the aggressor was. This war has no end in sight without a massive escalation that nobody wants. There comes a time where you need to step back and look at everything and be pragmatic. You get the sides together and work towards a deal to save lives.

Progressive is just a term libs like to hide behind.

 

[GATTACA!]

Trump admits Russia attacked Ukraine

"Russia attacked, but they shouldn't have let him attack," U.S. President Donald Trump said on Feb. 21, after previously blaming Ukraine for starting the war.

kyivindependent.com

Oh guys, duh! Ukraine should have just not let Russia attack them!

 

[NDVirginia19]

I highly recommend everybody watch that full Rubio interview. It was great.

 

[TorontoGold]

Areas that were pro Russia? Go back and read your friend CNN. They mentioned this several times when Russia first invaded.

What Next for Ukraine’s Formerly Pro-Russian Regions?

No matter how the war in Ukraine ends, it’s very difficult to imagine the reemergence of pro-Russian political parties there, leaving a political void in the country’s southeast.

carnegieendowment.org

What are the Ukraine 'separatist' regions at the crux of the Russian invasion

Explaining the "separatist" regions in Ukraine that have been the crux of a Russian invasion.

abcnews.go.com

Russia was wrong and the aggressor. I’ve said from the beginning that I would love for Ukraine to kick their ass and I would love for things to be restored to what they were pre-war.

Once again we’ve reached a point where it doesn’t matter who the aggressor was. This war has no end in sight without a massive escalation that nobody wants. There comes a time where you need to step back and look at everything and be pragmatic. You get the sides together and work towards a deal to save lives.

Progressive is just a term libs like to hide behind.

lol in your first link only 22% of the people supported unification with Russia. I don't know about you, but 22% is not a majority from where I'm from. It's like saying Canadian's are overwhelmingly pro-USA, this is true we do generally love the US, but you'll see the majority like our sovereignty.

What do you mean it doesn't matter who the aggressor is? Remember, it was you, not me who first brought up the Israel/Hamas conflict. You would say that Hamas has to be willing to come to the table and release all the hostages, correct? I don't think it would make sense for Israel to just say "You know, we've lost so many people already, fine you can keep the hostages just promise to be nice, ok?". So, why do you suddenly change your tune with it comes to Ukraine?

lmao tell me you know nothing of the other side without telling me. Progressive to Liberalism is like Libertarian to Conservativism.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

giving up nuclear weapons that you aren’t actually able to employ is not really equivalent to unilateral disarmament.

First off, no one made that equivalency. Secondly, they could not have deployed them at the time, no...but the purpose was to make sure they couldn't in the future or they didn't fall into the wrong hands during the instability post USSR(and ironically they are now in the hands of the country that invaded them). It was more than a deployment capability question.

Budapest Memorandum were entirely non binding and effectively said that we would “bring it up to the UN”. We have given billions of aid.

..and it was brought to the UN and with Russia, the invader, on the Security Council, it's not exactly a fair evaluation by them. If it weren't for Russia, the UN would be intervening.

We should continue to give them aid.

 

[Giddyup]

He's more of a wannabe dictator/nazi at this point. Arrow is trending that way though.........I'm trying to be accurate as to his current status.

King too

 

[Giddyup]

In 2014 it was a coup led by our own CIA that overturned a democratically elected gov and one that wanted to build a relationship with Russia economically instead of the European Union. . Then we installed our puppet gov, got In bed with the Azov Battalion and the puppet gov began shelling the Donbas areas of Ukraine, which are largely the Russian speaking/pro Russia areas of Ukraine. Then they had two peace agreements but Angela Merkel, who I call Droopy, revealed they never intended to abide by those peace accords. It was to buy time to build up the Ukrainian army until Putin had enough and moved In .

So anyone saying Ukraine didn’t start it is both right and wrong. We started it/Ukraine fired the first shots

 

[Irish#1]

lol in your first link only 22% of the people supported unification with Russia. I don't know about you, but 22% is not a majority from where I'm from. It's like saying Canadian's are overwhelmingly pro-USA, this is true we do generally love the US, but you'll see the majority like our sovereignty.

What do you mean it doesn't matter who the aggressor is? Remember, it was you, not me who first brought up the Israel/Hamas conflict. You would say that Hamas has to be willing to come to the table and release all the hostages, correct? I don't think it would make sense for Israel to just say "You know, we've lost so many people already, fine you can keep the hostages just promise to be nice, ok?". So, why do you suddenly change your tune with it comes to Ukraine?

lmao tell me you know nothing of the other side without telling me. Progressive to Liberalism is like Libertarian to Conservativism.

I did bring up Israel and Hamas, but you’re missing the point again so I’ll tell you again. This is about Biden wanting to negotiate a settlement with Israel and Hamas, but he didn’t try with Ukraine and Russia. It’s that simple. I will say it appears to me that it would be easier to get a settlement with two countries warring than it would be for a country fighting a terrorist group.

I didn’t change my opinion about Ukraine. As I’ve already stated a couple of times, I would prefer to have things revert back to before the war, but I can at least step back from being so ingrained in one position and reassess things.

Tell me how many more lives lost and families ruined before a settlement should be reached or are you okay with this dragging out indefinitely?

 

[TorontoGold]

I did bring up Israel and Hamas, but you’re missing the point again so I’ll tell you again. This is about Biden wanting to negotiate a settlement with Israel and Hamas, but he didn’t try with Ukraine and Russia. It’s that simple. I will say it appears to me that it would be easier to get a settlement with two countries warring than it would be for a country fighting a terrorist group.

I didn’t change my opinion about Ukraine. As I’ve already stated a couple of times, I would prefer to have things revert back to before the war, but I can at least step back from being so ingrained in one position and reassess things.

Tell me how many more lives lost and families ruined before a settlement should be reached or are you okay with this dragging out indefinitely?

You're missing the point - you are trying to compare the situations where this is no comparison simply because you don't like the past guy. Of course it looks easier to you, because you don't like the past guy. Me personally, I think it would be easier to get hostages back then capitulating to a dictator.

Read again, I said your tune is different. You've been clear that you want Ukraine to hand over their land.

You pressure aggressor until they capitulate, you had the world united behind them until the election. Since you brought up Israel/Hamas, why don't you hold this same smoke for that? Is that because of, well, you know, their ethnicity?

Don't you think Hamas should hand over the hostages?

 

[calvegas04]

The German conservative CDU party won their election which is good for Ukraine as they want to ramp up German defense spending and continued support for Ukraine.

 

[Irish#1]

You're missing the point - you are trying to compare the situations where this is no comparison simply because you don't like the past guy. Of course it looks easier to you, because you don't like the past guy. Me personally, I think it would be easier to get hostages back then capitulating to a dictator.

Read again, I said your tune is different. You've been clear that you want Ukraine to hand over their land.

You pressure aggressor until they capitulate, you had the world united behind them until the election. Since you brought up Israel/Hamas, why don't you hold this same smoke for that? Is that because of, well, you know, their ethnicity?

Don't you think Hamas should hand over the hostages?

Sure

 

[calvegas04]

Not a good look for the US

 

[TorontoGold]

Not a good look for the US

Ehhh any time you can join Sudan/NK/RUS/Belarus you gotta take it

 

[calvegas04]

 

[calvegas04]

 

[Irish#1]

Joe wanted him to flee? 😳

 

[calvegas04]

Joe wanted him to flee? 😳

The first few days of the war a lot of governments were asking Zelensky to leave the country with his government for their safety. Zelensky said he wouldn't abandon Ukraine, similar to what he is saying now about not signing away Ukraine's future.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I agree, not a good look. I think the Devil's advocate position is something like 1) UN Resolutions are a feel good circle jerk, who really fucking cares what the global community thinks on how we vote on them? 2) If the global community really fucking cared about condemning Russia, why did they wait three years to do it? It seems like a strategic sabotage of the US's peace making process 3) It is in the US's strategic interest to end the war and we are in the process of negotiating to end the war. Why would we piss off the aggressor for a pointless resolution when we can actually make progress on something that benefits American citizens?

Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but I can see that being their side of the argument.

 

[calvegas04]

I agree, not a good look. I think the Devil's advocate position is something like 1) UN Resolutions are a feel good circle jerk, who really fucking cares what the global community thinks on how we vote on them? 2) If the global community really fucking cared about condemning Russia, why did they wait three years to do it? It seems like a strategic sabotage of the US's peace making process 3) It is in the US's strategic interest to end the war and we are in the process of negotiating to end the war. Why would we piss off the aggressor for a pointless resolution when we can actually make progress on something that benefits American citizens?

Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but I can see that being their side of the argument.

1. The UN is complete garbage and doesn't hold any weight outside of a few villages in Africa

2. It's just not great being apart of the group of countries that voted no.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[ab2cmiller]

"Lastly, the draft contains a provision on the development of mining projects in what the text calls territories “temporarily occupied by the Russian Federation, in the event such areas are de-occupied,” which is where much of Ukraine’s mineral wealth is located."

 

[Irish#1]

The first few days of the war a lot of governments were asking Zelensky to leave the country with his government for their safety. Zelensky said he wouldn't abandon Ukraine, similar to what he is saying now about not signing away Ukraine's future.

Didn’t know that. Seems strange to ask him to do that. It’s not like one of those countries where there is a militant coup and he doesn’t have the backing of his military. Doesn’t matter what I think, but I think he did the right thing.