Russia Invades Ukraine

[TracyGraham]

Yeah dumbo America ran an election during the friggin Civil War. He’s had three yrs to destroy his country. Enough is enough. Now midget Z is suppressing free speech wonder why.

So, am I right to conclude the new spin/narrative to justify removing support for Ukraine's war of resistance is that Ukrainians don't really want the war and they are only fighting Russia because they are basically conscripted and their western liberal corrupt plant leader has made himself dictator so they cant vote him out and end the war?

I get wanting to paint this picture because it helps to reconcile completely abandoning Ukraine. Otherwise, If Ukrainians are staunchly defending their country, it seems more fucked up to just abandon them to the invaders.
I'm pretty much fine with everything else Trump is doing, but this situation is really hard to accept. Feels like the opposite of 911. I argued nonstop with the everyone against the merits of going into Iraq. In this case, I feel like supporting Ukraine is 100% the no brainer on so many levels. But I guess everyone is really on board with giving it to Russia, so wtf do I know??

No matter what the truth is, this really feels like 1984 where the facts are dictated by the narrative. Either the Ukraine supporters or the people wanting to abandon them seem to be practicing doublespeak.

 

[Irish#1]

Biden: Maintained relationships with allies.
Trump: Zelensky only has a 4% approval rating, he started the war!
IE MAGA: You see, this is a very complex issue! Ukraine should just hand its land over! But, like I think Biden is to blame! Anyways, DavidDukeSuperFan1488 shared a tweet that helped me come to this conclusion.

Who are you talking/posting to?
1. Did anyone say Biden didn't maintain relationships with Allies?
2. When Trump posted that, the general consensus was, WTH?
3. No one is saying they should just hand over their land.
4. I'm not saying Biden is to blame, but tell me why he wasn't pushing for a settlement like he did with Israel and Hamas?

 

[Irish#1]

Donald Trump Just Cut All Foreign Aid to Ukraine and Most of the World

Only Israel and Egypt received waivers.

newrepublic.com

Suuuuuuuuure. Lol

Your google friend shows Biden was in office when this started, so there's that. I don't have a problem with the aid that we've sent to Ukraine (Russia bad), yet Biden could have also pushed for peace talks. Pretty sure you can do both at the same time.

A 90 day freeze, not a permanent cut. Probably has to do with Trump wanting to get a handle on spending.

Trump has threatened sanctions if his efforts at diplomacy fail.

Reading the article this is directed towards Putin.

 

[drayer54]

Who are you talking/posting to?
1. Did anyone say Biden didn't maintain relationships with Allies?
2. When Trump posted that, the general consensus was, WTH?
3. No one is saying they should just hand over their land.
4. I'm not saying Biden is to blame, but tell me why he wasn't pushing for a settlement like he did with Israel and Hamas?

Biden wanted Israel to let it go and stop on October 8th. I think there should be a big asterisk on that maintained relationship with allies, particularly Israel.

Who would think they would be rely on a guy calling Zelinsky a dictator, saying Ukraine started the war, and only wants to meet with Russia for peace talks??

Shocking people would think that.

Clearly talks with the Ukranians aren't going well. Rubio accused them of double talk. He's pushing Zelensky to a decision. We won't want to run an endless spigot of cash to Ukraine.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I think this part of Rubio's interview with Catherine Herridge explains a lot of Trumps response. It doesn't justify his response. But it's typical of Trump's response whenever anyone crosses him. Anyone that left the Trump administration and said anything even close to questioning Trump's decisions or anything remotely critical, Trump immediately flips the switch into "destroy mode".

Trump and Rubio are pissed at Zelensky because they thought that they were working towards an agreement on mineral rights and then Zelensky just blew it all up publicly.

 

[TorontoGold]

There comes a time when you need to be pragmatic. I think we've reached that point. Ukraine has some eastern territory that was pro Russia. Give that to Russia and lets move on.

Who are you talking/posting to?
1. Did anyone say Biden didn't maintain relationships with Allies?
2. When Trump posted that, the general consensus was, WTH?
3. No one is saying they should just hand over their land.
4. I'm not saying Biden is to blame, but tell me why he wasn't pushing for a settlement like he did with Israel and Hamas?

So who maintains relationships better, Biden or Trump? Because you seem to be ok with way Trump keeps his “enemies” close.

Was it? I don’t see a general consensus from IE MAGA on that. Plenty of posters here are pushing those same points.

YOU you literally said they should hand it over and be done with it.

You’re seriously asking why he didn’t push the same as he did with Israel and Hamas? lol you think Ukraine is pushing into Moscow into killing civilians?

 

[calvegas04]

I don't blame him for not signing if we only gave him one hour to sign.

 

[RDU Irish]

Russia took it - US didn't "give it" to them.

Bully took your lunch money - you Pollyanna simps think you can just ask for it back, nay DEMAND it back and stomp your feet hard enough and he will have to give it back. Right? Oh - shit here he comes for my lunch money again! Maybe you should happy to settle for him to stop taking your lunch money and accept you ain't ever getting yesterday's money back.

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[ab2cmiller]

I don't blame Zelensky for not signing if it didn't contain security guarantees.

On the flip side, the US would argue, if we are partners, we will want to protect those interests and that should be enough of assurance.

 

[GowerND11]

Yeah dumbo America ran an election during the friggin Civil War. He’s had three yrs to destroy his country. Enough is enough. Now midget Z is suppressing free speech wonder why.

Spewing the same nonsense again... If you can't see the difference between both you can't be helped...

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[TracyGraham]

I don't get this shit at all. Why do political parties operate as such a monolith. You don't have to agree with every damn thing on the left or right. Why are we agreeing with abandoning Ukraine? Just like I don't understand why liberals agree with every damn goofy ass thing they are doing these days. Clearly if no one is standing up to the worlds bullies we just might be creating a slippery slope. Are we really cool with just allowing might to be right 100%? Now to justify we are trying to ignore what we see and act like Ukraine is at fault??!! WTF, please don't just toe the line. You don't have to convince yourself of every Trump policy.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[GATTACA!]

Why do people think he’s on Russia’s side? I just can’t figure it out!?

 

[Irish#1]

So who maintains relationships better, Biden or Trump? Because you seem to be ok with way Trump keeps his “enemies” close.

Was it? I don’t see a general consensus from IE MAGA on that. Plenty of posters here are pushing those same points.

YOU you literally said they should hand it over and be done with it.

You’re seriously asking why he didn’t push the same as he did with Israel and Hamas? lol you think Ukraine is pushing into Moscow into killing civilians?

I don't think either are particularly good at it. The difference is Trump doesn't want to keep carrying the burden and expense for all of the other countries and isn't shy about getting their attention. Joe on the other hand was afraid to rock the boat. His vast foreign policy experience he claimed to have was a joke.

No, I said there are a few areas (not Ukraine in its entirety) that are and always have been pro-Russian. They have fought to undermine Zelensky for a long time. Why not turn over that small area and be done with it if it's going to save lives?

Your logic doesn't make sense. Regardless of who the aggressor is, why wouldn't you try to negotiate a peace settlement? You the lib backing war?

 

[Irish#1]

I don't get this shit at all. Why do political parties operate as such a monolith. You don't have to agree with every damn thing on the left or right. Why are we agreeing with abandoning Ukraine? Just like I don't understand why liberals agree with every damn goofy ass thing they are doing these days. Clearly if no one is standing up to the worlds bullies we just might be creating a slippery slope. Are we really cool with just allowing might to be right 100%? Now to justify we are trying to ignore what we see and act like Ukraine is at fault??!! WTF, please don't just toe the line. You don't have to convince yourself of every Trump policy.

I don't get why Trump thinks Ukraine is at fault. His statements don't make any sense. I do see why he was asking for mineral rights. Rather than continuing to spend money on a war that has no end in sight and get nothing in return. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Still curious as to what gets proposed and presented to Zelensky.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

I don't get why Trump thinks Ukraine is at fault.

Well he's an idiot, a Russian stooge, and a fascist...so..I mean...I get why he does.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Well he's an idiot, a Russian stooge, and a fascist...so..I mean...I get why he does.

You left off dictator and Nazi.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

You left off dictator and Nazi.

He's more of a wannabe dictator/nazi at this point. Arrow is trending that way though.........I'm trying to be accurate as to his current status.

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[TracyGraham]

I don't get why Trump thinks Ukraine is at fault. His statements don't make any sense. I do see why he was asking for mineral rights. Rather than continuing to spend money on a war that has no end in sight and get nothing in return. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Still curious as to what gets proposed and presented to Zelensky.

Yeah, the mineral thing seems a little sketchy on the surface, but I can understand it, because its not really fair for the US to spend the majority especially while it appears the other European powers are doing less even though they are closer in proximity to Russia. Plus its not like the US didn't reap countless monetary benefits from other wars like WW2. I'm not naive, and am fine asking for some sort of financial incentive. But not sure why we are spinning this to blame Ukraine like you said.

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[TorontoGold]

I don't think either are particularly good at it. The difference is Trump doesn't want to keep carrying the burden and expense for all of the other countries and isn't shy about getting their attention. Joe on the other hand was afraid to rock the boat. His vast foreign policy experience he claimed to have was a joke.

No, I said there are a few areas (not Ukraine in its entirety) that are and always have been pro-Russian. They have fought to undermine Zelensky for a long time. Why not turn over that small area and be done with it if it's going to save lives?

Your logic doesn't make sense. Regardless of who the aggressor is, why wouldn't you try to negotiate a peace settlement? You the lib backing war?

So who's better? Simple question.

Really which areas? What proof? There are numerous studies and polls that show the opposite. Please share the sources for this claim.

lol doesn't make sense who the aggressor is?? That is the KEY issue! You negotiate a peace settlement by having Russia GTFO and leave, you have a peace settlement with Hamas by returning all the hostages. This isn't a hard concept.

I'm not a lib lmao, huge difference between progressive and a lib. Kind of like the difference between MAGA and conservativism, Cal is a conservative and IE MAGA is constantly at odds with him.

 

[calvegas04]

Yeah, the mineral thing seems a little sketchy on the surface, but I can understand it, because its not really fair for the US to spend the majority especially while it appears the other European powers are doing less even though they are closer in proximity to Russia. Plus its not like the US didn't reap countless monetary benefits from other wars like WW2. I'm not naive, and am fine asking for some sort of financial incentive. But not sure why we are spinning this to blame Ukraine like you said.

 

[RDU Irish]

Is there a way for AI to search IE for banned users that don't know how to spell boa? Something smells funny here.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Never be suspicious of a graphic that shows spending from a date that starts with the very common 1/24/22. LMAO

 

[TracyGraham]

View attachment 3058298

Appreciate the data/clarification

 

[ChunkyParrot]

Never be suspicious of a graphic that shows spending from a date that starts with the very common 1/24/22. LMAO

I always appreciate skepticism of convenient graphics, but https://www.google.com/search?q=when+did+russia+invade+ukraine

 

[Sea Turtle]

It seems that Europe is dead and that the U.S. and Russia are redrawing the maps.