Rumored Violations

[Cali_domer]

Can't believe we're almost at 8,000 post with no news yet.

 

[JughedJones]

We know what the suspicions were. We do not know what the evidence is, or whether additional complications arose in the course of investigation. We're really quite blind here. A speedy resolution would have been fantastic. I'm reserving pissed-off-alum-with-a-pitchfork status for when I hear what's been discovered, what's been decided, and the timeframe along which things went. If those don't align with my expectations of fair treatment for current students, I will let the administration know that I am disappointed, as I am sure many other alums will.

Fair enough.

Sometimes I have to remember that I'm only Subway. It's easy to forget sometimes.

 

[luckathe1]

Just spit ballin here, looking for the silver lining.
Is it possible that the delay was the NCAA and not ND. I remember there being a question about the paid student assistant/tutor, whether that was an extra benefit, or some such thing. Could the delay have been getting an answer back from the NCAA. Talk about a bureaucratic nightmare.

 

[Cali_domer]

Just spit ballin here, looking for the silver lining.
Is it possible that the delay was the NCAA and not ND. I remember there being a question about the paid student assistant/tutor, whether that was an extra benefit, or some such thing. Could the delay have been getting an answer back from the NCAA. Talk about a bureaucratic nightmare.

I think that was spit balled 68 pages ago(Understand why you may have missed it. lol).

Could be I guess.

 

[JughedJones]

Just spit ballin here, looking for the silver lining.
Is it possible that the delay was the NCAA and not ND. I remember there being a question about the paid student assistant/tutor, whether that was an extra benefit, or some such thing. Could the delay have been getting an answer back from the NCAA. Talk about a bureaucratic nightmare.

That's a good guess. It would explain a lot.

It's still not a good excuse though. If it were the case, it should have been communicated.
Not for our sake mind you, but for theirs.

 

[Cali_domer]

 

[kmoose]

That's a good guess. It would explain a lot.

It's still not a good excuse though. If it were the case, it should have been communicated.
Not for our sake mind you, but for theirs.

But we don't know that it WASN'T communicated to them. I still have serious reservations about the fact that, of the 5 athletes and their families, only ONE group is publicly complaining. If they are so in the dark, then why isn't at least one of the other 4 athletes/families complaining about it? Not a peep from them.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

But we don't know that it WASN'T communicated to them. I still have serious reservations about the fact that, of the 5 athletes and their families, only ONE group is publicly complaining. If they are so in the dark, then why isn't at least one of the other 4 athletes/families complaining about it? Not a peep from them.

Tact?

 

[JughedJones]

Because only one of the students in that group has an NFL veteran as a father and the rest are shutting up while he sounds off?

If they're telling everyone else but Davaris what's happening whilst keeping him in the dark... does that make this better somehow?



I don't know, man.

 

[JughedJones]

Tact?

fear?

 

[kmoose]

Because only one of the students in that group has an NFL veteran as a father and the rest are shutting up while he sounds off?

If they're telling everyone else but Davaris what's happening whilst keeping him in the dark... does that make this better somehow?



I don't know, man.

That's not what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is that maybe the families DO know what is happening, and Daniels' dad is just pissed off that his kid is not getting special treatment, so he is sounding off, and trying to make the University look bad? We see parents acting like this, all of the time, with High School athletes. "You can't discipline my son!! He may lose his scholarship offer if you hold him accountable for his poor behavior!!!!" What makes us automatically assume that Philip Daniels is NOT just making excuses for his kid, and trying to deflect the attention back to the University?

 

[johnnycando]

fear?

Hoping for the nod in their favor if the pendulum is nearly balanced come decision time.

 

[koonja]

195 pages...

And Michigan still sucks!

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[JughedJones]

That's not what I was trying to say. What I was trying to say is that maybe the families DO know what is happening, and Daniels' dad is just pissed off that his kid is not getting special treatment, so he is sounding off, and trying to make the University look bad? We see parents acting like this, all of the time, with High School athletes. "You can't discipline my son!! He may lose his scholarship offer if you hold him accountable for his poor behavior!!!!" What makes us automatically assume that Philip Daniels is NOT just making excuses for his kid, and trying to deflect the attention back to the University?

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I was getting angry at and questioning the University for how stupidly long this is dragging out.

You are, with no evidence at all mind you, impugning the character of an individual you don't know based on the actions of strangers unrelated to this incident.

I think that's a little much, don't you?

 

[kmoose]

I don't even know how to respond to this.

I was getting angry at and questioning the University for how stupidly long this is dragging out.

You are, with no evidence at all mind you, impugning the character of an individual you don't know based on the actions of strangers unrelated to this incident.

I think that's a little much, don't you?

I am not impugning anyone. I'm merely saying that it is POSSIBLE. I'm not making any direct accusations of ANYTHING. Everyone seems so eager to jump on the University as the bad guy, it seems like they have already concluded that there is no possibility that the Danielses might actually be crying wolf.


But no one seemed to care about the character of Jack Swarbrick, Father Jenkins, Coach Kelly, or anyone else in the chain of command at the University, when people here were flat out accusing them of incompetence and/or maliciously screwing these kids over.

 

[JughedJones]

I am not impugning anyone. I'm merely saying that it is POSSIBLE. I'm not making any direct accusations of ANYTHING. Everyone seems so eager to jump on the University as the bad guy, it seems like they have already concluded that there is no possibility that the Danielses might actually be crying wolf.


But no one seemed to care about the character of Jack Swarbrick, Father Jenkins, Coach Kelly, or anyone else in the chain of command at the University, when people here were flat out accusing them of incompetence and/or maliciously screwing these kids over.

Good God, man.

They are the accusers. They have stopped 5 kids lives in their tracks and given no word on what is going to happen.

After ND held the presser, named these kids as cheaters, and stopped their football careers, they were left holding the burden of proof.

I'm really weirded out by the fact that you think it's strange we question the idiocy and lethargy of this process while you think it right to cast blame on the accused's parents.

Jenkins, the Admin, et al., are paid to do their job... and this is part of it. Sorry if I accuse them of doing it poorly. I think that a much more reasonable accusation than calling a kid's parents liars and cheats.

 

[pkt77242]

I am not impugning anyone. I'm merely saying that it is POSSIBLE. I'm not making any direct accusations of ANYTHING. Everyone seems so eager to jump on the University as the bad guy, it seems like they have already concluded that there is no possibility that the Danielses might actually be crying wolf.


But no one seemed to care about the character of Jack Swarbrick, Father Jenkins, Coach Kelly, or anyone else in the chain of command at the University, when people here were flat out accusing them of incompetence and/or maliciously screwing these kids over.

I gave ND the benefit of the doubt in the beginning but now it is either incompetence or malicious (or shitty ass rules). This has nothing to do with Swarbrick, Jenkins or Kelly, it has to do with the University taking this long to even appoint people to the committee. Daniels could definitely be crying wolf and I wouldn't discount that. Even if they are guilty it is unfair to them (or any student) for it to take this long. The options are the rules are archaic and let the process drag on, the University is incompetent (or at least certain members of the administration are) or it is malicious. None of them are flattering to the ND.

 

[NCND]

195 pages...

And Michigan still sucks!

[/URL][/IMG]

Only major program with a score board from the 1980's.

 

[JughedJones]

I gave ND the benefit of the doubt in the beginning but now it is either incompetence or malicious (or shitty ass rules). This has nothing to do with Swarbrick, Jenkins or Kelly, it has to do with the University taking this long to even appoint people to the committee. Daniels could definitely be crying wolf and I wouldn't discount that. Even if they are guilty it is unfair to them (or any student) for it to take this long. The options are the rules are archaic and let the process drag on, the University is incompetent (or at least certain members of the administration are) or it is malicious. None of them are flattering to the ND.

I was about to bold part of this as the bit I agreed with, then I realized I had highlighted the whole thing.

(Although Jenkins has culpability here, he's the President... where the buck stops and all that sort of thing.)

 

[koonja]

I don't think there's a scenario where the University didn't F-over the students.

If you're paying $50,000 a year to go to school at ND, and you don't find out until the semester's half over that none of your work counts because you're getting expelled? Unacceptable IMO.

 

[Irish8248]

Good God, man.

They are the accusers. They have stopped 5 kids lives in their tracks and given no word on what is going to happen.

After ND held the presser, named these kids as cheaters, and stopped their football careers, they were left holding the burden of proof.

I'm really weirded out by the fact that you think it's strange we question the idiocy and lethargy of this process while you think it right to cast blame on the accused's parents.

Jenkins, the Admin, et al., are paid to do their job... and this is part of it. Sorry if I accuse them of doing it poorly. I think that a much more reasonable accusation than calling a kid's parents liars and cheats.

Aren't you criticizing and ripping the reputation of the university and those in command for a "stupidly long process" based on zero insight into that process, it's history, any precedents and zero evidence to judge it against? In fact the only thing we have been given is the criticism from one of the defendants and his parent (not really reliable or detailed)

Yes the committee was just formed, but we don't know who, what, or even why the delay. Everything - literally everything - is based on our assumptions and inferences

 

[JughedJones]

Aren't you criticizing and ripping the reputation of the university and those in command for a "stupidly long process" based on zero insight into that process, it's history, any precedents and zero evidence to judge it against? In fact the only thing we have been given is the criticism from one of the defendants and his parent (not really reliable or detailed)

Yes the committee was just formed, but we don't know who, what, or even why the delay. Everything - literally everything - is based on our assumptions and inferences

No. I'm not.

They are paid to do this correctly. It is an objective reality that they have not done that.

They're paid to do a job. They made promises to families.

Even if the kids in their care make mistakes, they aren't supposed to be treated like this. If they're criminals, call the cops, if they're not... mete out judgment.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I don't think there's a scenario where the University didn't F-over the students.

If you're paying $50,000 a year to go to school at ND, and you don't find out until the semester's half over that none of your work counts because you're getting expelled? Unacceptable IMO.

This I agree with.


Sent via tapatalk

 

[Irish8248]

I don't think there's a scenario where the University didn't F-over the students.

If you're paying $50,000 a year to go to school at ND, and you don't find out until the semester's half over that none of your work counts because you're getting expelled? Unacceptable IMO.

How about the fact that they're not paying 50k a year and that they are still attending classes. Again, there was zero chance of transfer so it was either hold out and lose any chance for credit in classes or remain in class so when found innocent they don't lose a semester worth of credits

 

[koonja]

How about the fact that they're not paying 50k a year and that they are still attending classes. Again, there was zero chance of transfer so it was either hold out and lose any chance for credit in classes or remain in class so when found innocent they don't lose a semester worth of credits

There ARE regular students being investigated, no?

Zero chance for a transfer? That's news to me.

 

[JughedJones]

How about the fact that they're not paying 50k a year and that they are still attending classes. Again, there was zero chance of transfer so it was either hold out and lose any chance for credit in classes or remain in class so when found innocent they don't lose a semester worth of credits

I'm not sure what this means, but it sounds remarkably like an argument for why these kids are getting f-d in the A.

 

[Irish8248]

No. I'm not.

They are paid to do this correctly. It is an objective reality that they have not done that.

They're paid to do a job. They made promises to families.

Even if the kids in their care make mistakes, they aren't supposed to be treated like this. If they're criminals, call the cops, if they're not... mete out judgment.

Again, you have no evidence to suggest they're not doing it right. That's my point. You criticized others for baseless claims but turn around and Kay blame on a university without a shred of evidence or insight into the process... I don't mean that in an argumentative way, rather just pointing out the similar flaw.

We have no scale to base criticism on other than "it's taking forever therefore it's wrong" were missing a lot of pieces to the puzzle

 

[Irish8248]

There ARE regular students being investigated, no?

Zero chance for a transfer? That's news to me.

We have no idea! That's the point. Maybe the regular kids are in scholarship for band or something.

There is zero chance of transferring when the investigation launched. You can't transfer because you're not in good standing, no school will take you until a resolution. You can't transfer in to another school beyond the first week anyways. The timing of this investigation made it impossible for any transfer

 

[Irish Insanity]

I don't think there's a scenario where the University didn't F-over the students.

If you're paying $50,000 a year to go to school at ND, and you don't find out until the semester's half over that none of your work counts because you're getting expelled? Unacceptable IMO.

Good point. So does them still attending the University point to a possible end scenario? I mean would ND really kick them to the curb after allowing them to continue their education for half the semester?

 

[Irish8248]

I'm not sure what this means, but it sounds remarkably like an argument for why these kids are getting f-d in the A.

I fail to see how they're getting fucked in the ass.. they are getting a free education versus being removed from school entirely. They are receiving value every day by being permitted to pursue and.continue their education for that 40 year degree decision ... If they are guilty then they have not lost anything via this delay. Had they dropped out of school they couldn't attend classes elsewhere until next semester anyways