Rioting in St Louis

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Watching Fruitvale Station right now. Surprisingly I haven't seen it yet.

 

[IrishLax]

Watching Fruitvale Station right now. Surprisingly I haven't seen it yet.

I'm shocked you haven't seen that before. Absurd incident. Can't believe the cop didn't get more time.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I'm shocked you haven't seen that before. Absurd incident. Can't believe the cop didn't get more time.

I don't watch a lot of movies. I recorded it on U-Verse's free HBO weekend that's going on. I'm pretty familiar with the case, and it is absurd that someone would only get 11 months for it. The taser being confused as a gun is negligent at best and a lie to get away with murder at worst.

The movie was absolutely incredible though. Even taking away from the story and aftermath and everything that surrounded it, it was a great story of a man. Good characters, good development, well shot, great acting, good conflict.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't watch a lot of movies. I recorded it on U-Verse's free HBO weekend that's going on. I'm pretty familiar with the case, and it is absurd that someone would only get 11 months for it. The taser being confused as a gun is negligent at best and a lie to get away with murder at worst.

The movie was absolutely incredible though. Even taking away from the story and aftermath and everything that surrounded it, it was a great story of a man. Good characters, good development, well shot, great acting, good conflict.

Great movie, I've watched it twice. What befuddles me is that "I thought it was a taser" has an equal chance of just being an outright lie for "I murdered this guy because I felt like it"... either way, how does someone get such little time for a crime like that when a non-violent criminal gets "3 strikes" for dealing crack and gets an exponentially longer sentence? Absurd. Absurd on every level.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Really just a tragedy all around, like so many of these killings. Young men shot down before they have a chance to live. The police in that whole scenario were across the board completely and dangerously inept. It ended up with one death, and with how bad they were, there seriously could have been more. The cop who had to repeat "bitch ass nigga" really messed up terribly. What was that going to do other than escalate the situation? I get that cops are human and prone to the same antagonizing mistakes that we all have, but that was really bad. I feel for his family and especially his daughter.

 

[GoIrish41]

You still understand you are talking about less then 2% of police are dirty.

The 08 census says there are 461k local police officers in the country. If 2% are dirty there are more than 9000 and dirty cops roamimg our streets who have a licence to impose their will on the communities the serve. That is not counting state and federal law enforcemt officers which would probably make that 9000 number much bigger. Thats a lot of bad eggs with a lot of power ... too many for my taste.

 

[GATTACA!]

The 08 census says there are 461k local police officers in the country. If 2% are dirty there are more than 9000 and dirty cops roamimg our streets who have a licence to impose their will on the communities the serve. That is not counting state and federal law enforcemt officers which would probably make that 9000 number much bigger. Thats a lot of bad eggs with a lot of power ... too many for my taste.

Or if its....

.002 = 900 cops
.0002 = 90 cops
.00002 = 9 cops

All are equally as useless since we have zero idea what the real % is. But all it takes is one person reading your post and not realizing that you pulled that % from nowhere to start reciting it as fact.

 

[irishff1014]

The 08 census says there are 461k local police officers in the country. If 2% are dirty there are more than 9000 and dirty cops roamimg our streets who have a licence to impose their will on the communities the serve. That is not counting state and federal law enforcemt officers which would probably make that 9000 number much bigger. Thats a lot of bad eggs with a lot of power ... too many for my taste.

I was just throwing out a number. It could be .03% I don't really know.

 

[Irish#1]

Most of us on here have had substantive dialogue. Some of us spent a few posts pointing out how inaccurate you were in so many posts and how outlandish your philosophies were on life. Many tuned you out a few days ago because everyone and everything is racist, and if you're not on board with that, you're wrong.

There's no point.

I've given up. NJNP have his own beliefs and isn't going to be swayed one iota. Show him facts and he'll tell you they were made up or coerced if they don't meet his needs. Ask him about the police who've been killed and he won't acknowledge that the killer was in the wrong. According to him drugs aren't the problem, the war on drugs is part of the problem. I could go on, but..........

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I didn't think that I had to say it was bad to kill people. That's my thing. The difference is that there have been cops who get off completely or get a far lesser punishment than what regular people get. The cop killers are probably going to spend the rest of their lives in a cell. Cops who kill citizens don't.

Drugs can be a problem like anything can be a problem. Locking people up for selling weed and pills isn't doing them a favor, especially with the prison system right now. The war on drugs completely changed crime in the 80s in the inner cities. Drugs will cause problems with addiction and overdosing, but locking people up instead of giving them treatment and making sure people are protected from gang violence around drugs is causing just as much harm, in my opinion.

 

[dad4aa]

I've given up. NJNP have his own beliefs and isn't going to be swayed one iota. Show him facts and he'll tell you they were made up or coerced if they don't meet his needs. Ask him about the police who've been killed and he won't acknowledge that the killer was in the wrong. According to him drugs aren't the problem, the war on drugs is part of the problem. I could go on, but..........

...you would be wasting your breath. A leopard doesn't change it's spots.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Yep I'm just not easily swayed like y'all.

 

[dad4aa]

Yep I'm just not easily swayed like y'all.

As much rhetoric as you have been spewing, if we were easily swayed we would all be out burning cop cars.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I guess that made sense.

 

[Irishman77]

Pants up don't loot

 

[DogDaysIrish]

...you would be wasting your breath. A leopard doesn't change it's spots.

Just screen names...

 

[dad4aa]

Just screen names...

That is hilarious!! Reps to you good sir.

 

[GDomer09]

I didn't think that I had to say it was bad to kill people. That's my thing. The difference is that there have been cops who get off completely or get a far lesser punishment than what regular people get. The cop killers are probably going to spend the rest of their lives in a cell. Cops who kill citizens don't.

All of this aside. Do you really think these very tiny % of incidents are worthy of the amount of riots, looting, hate, chaos and most importantly divide it has and is creating?

Imo these types of things are setting race relations back far more than the few police cases. Unless the long time racists from both sides are just speaking out more.

Holy Shit! Finally something I can 100% agree with you on. Something has to be done about this. Mixing low level drug offenders with violent criminals is wrong no matter how you look at it.

 

[kmoose]

Locking people up for selling weed and pills isn't doing them a favor, especially with the prison system right now.

Good! We shouldn't be doing favors for people who intentionally and continuously break the laws of our country.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

There are really bad laws, and dealing and using drugs is a hard cycle to break. Locking up non-violent offenders only creates violence. The USA has an absolutely absurd rate of prisoners. Too many Americans are in prison for victimless crimes.

 

[kmoose]

There are really bad laws, and dealing and using drugs is a hard cycle to break. Locking up non-violent offenders only creates violence. The USA has an absolutely absurd rate of prisoners. Too many Americans are in prison for victimless crimes.

I really don't give a fvck! LOTS of things in life are hard, but we are expected to do them every day. I'm tired of all of the excuses! Quit dealing drugs and you will not go to fvcking prison for dealing drugs! It's really that simple!!

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Such compassion. Dealing and using drugs doesn't directly impact others. Why should people go to prison for dealing marijuana or LSD or shrooms when they are less harmful than tobacco or alcohol? It's ridiculous that they are illegal in the first place. The prisons are overcrowded, and our crappy prison system just breeds violent criminals. People are looking for money and deal drugs. It's out of desperation for most people, or that's what they know. Or it's the only way they've seen someone become successful. Get rid of the drug war, and I guarantee that overdoses on heroin/cocaine and drug-related violence will go down. You can't complain about drug-related violence or drug dealing if that's your take. "Stop it, just stop it." Look for solutions instead of just saying no.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I guess Americans must just be worse people than other countries...

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Portugal essentially decriminalized the personal use of drugs, and it has paid dividends for the country. HIV among drug users is down, more people get treatment for addiction, drug related deaths are down, and drug use among adolescents went down. A switch to that will also make cops start focusing on stuff that matters instead of minor drug offenses.

 

[kmoose]

Such compassion. Dealing and using drugs doesn't directly impact others. Why should people go to prison for dealing marijuana or LSD or shrooms when they are less harmful than tobacco or alcohol? It's ridiculous that they are illegal in the first place. The prisons are overcrowded, and our crappy prison system just breeds violent criminals. People are looking for money and deal drugs. It's out of desperation for most people, or that's what they know. Or it's the only way they've seen someone become successful. Get rid of the drug war, and I guarantee that overdoses on heroin/cocaine and drug-related violence will go down. You can't complain about drug-related violence or drug dealing if that's your take. "Stop it, just stop it." Look for solutions instead of just saying no.

I have compassion for people who WANT to better their lives, but not for people who want others to better their lives for them. I'm all for pumping money into helping people get rehab, as long as they put honest effort into it, and as long as they show some initiative and ask for help. Making excuses for people just makes them victims. There's no compassion in that. It makes people weak, not strong.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

And decriminalization does make people want to get better. People are afraid of being locked up, afraid of the stigma socially. Right now rehab is for rich people and jail is for poor people. Rehab should be for everybody. Needing to rely on people for help doesn't make people weak. People in this thread have a warped view of excuses, like there is absolutely never an excuse for anything.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Why does this country have a disproportionate amount of criminals in prison? Are Americans worse people than the English or Germans or Swedes? Or are we locking people up for reasons that are not necessary.

The private prison industry is the most dangerous thing in the country right now.

 

[kmoose]

And decriminalization does make people want to get better. People are afraid of being locked up, afraid of the stigma socially. Right now rehab is for rich people and jail is for poor people. Rehab should be for everybody. Needing to rely on people for help doesn't make people weak. People in this thread have a warped view of excuses, like there is absolutely never an excuse for anything.

People don't get locked up for being poor! They get locked up for breaking the law. Being poor is no excuse to break the law, or to not be punished for breaking the law. Not sure why that is such a hard concept for you to comprehend.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I didn't think that I had to say it was bad to kill people. That's my thing. The difference is that there have been cops who get off completely or get a far lesser punishment than what regular people get. The cop killers are probably going to spend the rest of their lives in a cell. Cops who kill citizens don't.

I mean, I'm right there with you on a lot of your posts, but you see how the bolded isn't exactly a paradox, right? The state monopolizes the right to use force; that's not a bug in the system, it's arguably the defining feature of the system.

While I do not enjoy reading the stories of people gunned down by cops, they do not worry me on a moral level. In a nation of 300 million with serious problems with crime and firearms, the efficient number of innocents killed by police is probably >0. There are at least 120,000 full time law enforcement officers in the US, some error is inevitable.

What worries me is that both perceived and real patterns of discrimination by our police force is eroding the trust large swaths of our country has in it. Obviously, this process has been going on for a while now (arguably forever) but these shootings and the publicity they have received have only served to accelerate that break down in trust. In fact, that broken trust is evident in the events surrounding a lot of these incidents. People here question why Brown and others showed such a reckless disregard for the authority of the law enforcement officers who ended up killing them, and I think a lack of trust is a big reason.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Poor people are more likely to get locked up while rich people get away with it. Jim Irsay got away with what would put most people in prison. Affluenza is real.