Rioting in St Louis

[wizards8507]

It's some tear gas at night in a well lit area and it makes for a neat photo. It comes nowhere close to Israel unless you're extremely uninformed.

I might be wrong, but I think he was making the point that the militarization of local police is a tragedy, something that I happen to agree with and I'm surprised you don't as well.

 

[BobD]

I might be wrong, but I think he was making the point that the militarization of local police is a tragedy, something that I happen to agree with and I'm surprised you don't as well.

They are responding with a strong show of force to hopefully save lives, not take them. Nobody knows better than them how far out of hand this could really get if that mob mentality takes control.

 

[BobD]

Don't get me wrong, things have been done wrong here, but nothing worth taking the side of the mob and being incited by the press. If I have my choice...I'll support my community police officers who put their lives on the line for me daily.

 

[Woneone]

Faithful servant mocking the protesters

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>One cop seems to be mocking the protestors ---> <a href="http://t.co/81WsXyvpy3">pic.twitter.com/81WsXyvpy3</a></p>— Henry Bailey (@BenryHailey) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenryHailey/statuses/499773128911097856">August 14, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Maybe I'm missing something, but where is the mocking? The guy with his hands in the air?

"Photographer seems to be spinning what appears to be nothing to incite even more anger in Ferguson".

There's plenty to be pissed about, a guy in full swat with his hands in the air is pretty far down the list, not matter what scenario they throw out there to incite the crowd.

 

[wizards8507]

Don't get me wrong, things have been done wrong here, but nothing worth taking the side of the mob and being incited by the press. If I have my choice...I'll support my community police officers who put their lives on the line for me daily.

I agree within the context of this incident. However, there's no reason local police should have tanks and armored vehicles in the first place. This is something that people agree on from across the political spectrum, from the ACLU to Glenn Beck.

https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing

Conservatives, libertarians and liberals should all worry about the militarization of police | Fox News

FSP Demands Apology for "Domestic Terrorism" Claims in Tank Grant Application | Free State Project

The militarization of police? Cops raid Iowa home of suspected credit card fraudsters – Glenn Beck

 

[connect the dots]

Faithful servant mocking the protesters

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>One cop seems to be mocking the protestors ---> <a href="http://t.co/81WsXyvpy3">pic.twitter.com/81WsXyvpy3</a></p>— Henry Bailey (@BenryHailey) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenryHailey/statuses/499773128911097856">August 14, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Conversely, this photograph could very well be mistaken for Chicago police enforcing the 11pm curfew in Lincoln Park - an ordinance posted during the 1968 Democratic National Convention. Smoke gets in your eyes!

 

[Grahambo]

I agree within the context of this incident. However, there's no reason local police should have tanks and armored vehicles in the first place. This is something that people agree on from across the political spectrum, from the ACLU to Glenn Beck.

https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing



Conservatives, libertarians and liberals should all worry about the militarization of police | Fox News



FSP Demands Apology for "Domestic Terrorism" Claims in Tank Grant Application | Free State Project



The militarization of police? Cops raid Iowa home of suspected credit card fraudsters – Glenn Beck

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it started with the LA bank robbery in the 90's?

Cops realized they needed the weapons to deal with those that have body armor and weapons such as AK-47's.

It's not so much as having those items as they are about deploying them properly. I'm not in Ferguson so I can't speak about the situation but it does appear the police force isn't going about this correctly. I've dealt with plenty of protests/demos. The flip side is, what are the people doing in that town that's NOT being reported? Two sides to a story; no?

If people want to be walking around with AR-15's, M-4's, etc as they claim it's their right, then I sure as hell want to be armed properly myself and since I'm on the streets everyday, I think I know what I need, not those who haven't dealt with what I have or other officers.

It's a touchy situation. Once again, the cops are being painted as the bad guy because it's easy to do so. There are plenty of times officers have been killed without warning but it doesn't make headlines except locally. I know a cop who was killed while sitting in his cruiser; no warning. He's not the first nor the last. Just two days ago, two D.C. cops were shot with no warning. One was struck 4 times without getting to fire back. Did anyone else know about it? Did it make headlines?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/01/lakewood_police_office_chris_m.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25f74e-22cb-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

 

[Ndaccountant]

I agree within the context of this incident. However, there's no reason local police should have tanks and armored vehicles in the first place. This is something that people agree on from across the political spectrum, from the ACLU to Glenn Beck.

https://www.aclu.org/war-comes-home-excessive-militarization-american-policing

Conservatives, libertarians and liberals should all worry about the militarization of police | Fox News

FSP Demands Apology for "Domestic Terrorism" Claims in Tank Grant Application | Free State Project

The militarization of police? Cops raid Iowa home of suspected credit card fraudsters – Glenn Beck

I think both sides of the debate are correct in this case. First, it is alarming the way they are equipping themselves. It is certainly intimidating and make a tense situation worse, as what is being demonstrated.

But in fairness to the police, they are in a no win situation here. In the event something terrible happens, whether it be a mass shooting, terrorist event or riot, the police would be chastised if they did not effectively and efficiently deal with the situation. None of us want to see this again.

The problem I have with this whole thing is that we are blaming the cops. Sure, there are bad seeds that are hateful in law enforcement. But that isn't unique to the job. That exists everywhere. I am more concerned with the DHS giving billions away to local law enforcement for weapons, vehicles and surveillance technology under the UASI program. Below is a link to SDSU report of facial recognition technology being used locally via a grant from DHS. There have been concerns that the output of the technology being deployed by these local agencies are able to be tapped into by the FBI, DHS and NSA. To his credit, Tom Coburn has been all over this for years. The irony is that if they are trying to keep peace (which is not entirely clear), the UASI program is leading to more suspicion of government and law enforcement.

The Daily Aztec : SDSUPD tests facial recognition software
Terrorism Fear button and funding: Ridiculous DHS spending | Network World

 

[dublinirish]

What I Saw in Ferguson

 

[Booslum31]

Faithful servant mocking the protesters

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>One cop seems to be mocking the protestors ---> <a href="http://t.co/81WsXyvpy3">pic.twitter.com/81WsXyvpy3</a></p>— Henry Bailey (@BenryHailey) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenryHailey/statuses/499773128911097856">August 14, 2014</a></blockquote>
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One "media guy" seems to be exaggerating...

 

[wizards8507]

What I Saw in Ferguson

Oh give me a break. Seriously. I understand that there are two sides to what's going on down there, but that article makes it seem like the protesters were simply reading aloud from their Bibles, not smashing windows, robbing liquor stores, and BURNING BUILDINGS TO THE GROUND.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

<iframe width="480" height="373" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" id="nyt_video_player" title="New York Times Video - Embed Player" src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/bcvideo/1.0/iframe/embed.html?videoId=100000003055806&playerType=embed"></iframe>

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

What about the cops that get gunned down by thugs for no reason? I know of one personally.

The Ferguson situation is out of control. I have no clue what they are doing and nor do they. I deal with protests every day and it never gets outta control.

Number of cops killed by gunfire in 2013 dips to 33, lowest since 1887 | Fox News

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Oh give me a break. Seriously. I understand that there are two sides to what's going on down there, but that article makes it seem like the protesters were simply reading aloud from their Bibles, not smashing windows, robbing liquor stores, and BURNING BUILDINGS TO THE GROUND.

A minority looted after cops showed up armed to the teeth. Most has been peaceful. The only death was a cop shooting an unarmed man with his hands in the air.

 

[kmoose]

They might be the minority, but there is still police brutality daily in this country, especially against the poorest and most disenfranchised people in the country. I've worked with cops and I know that some are very normal people while others are hateful and bigoted. It is probably the minority, but it's enough that people like Michael Brown are getting gunned down with their hands up in the air because he didn't treat the cop like a god. One killing is too many, and we do not need to be funding these armies.

You see, 2114........... this is where you lose people. EVERYONE is entitled to due process: even the cops that you clearly have no respect for. You have so little respect for them, that you have already decided what happened.... and WHY it happened.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

In Ferguson, Washington Post reporter Wesley Lowery gives account of his arrest - The Washington Post

FERGUSON, Mo. — For the past week in Ferguson, reporters have been using the McDonald’s a few blocks from the scene of Michael Brown’s shooting as a staging area. Demonstrations have blown up each night nearby. But inside there’s WiFi and outlets, so it’s common for reporters to gather there.

That was the case Wednesday. My phone was just about to die, so as I charged it, I used the time to respond to people on Twitter and do a little bit of a Q&A since I wasn’t out there covering the protests.

As I sat there, many armed officers came in — some who were dressed as normal officers, others who were dressed with more gear.

Initially, both Ryan Reilly of the Huffington Post and I were asked for identification. I was wearing my lanyard, but Ryan asked why he had to show his ID. They didn’t press the point, but one added that if we called 911, no one would answer.

Then they walked away. Moments later, the police reemerged, telling us that we had to leave. I pulled my phone out and began recording video.

An officer with a large weapon came up to me and said, “Stop recording.”

I said, “Officer, do I not have the right to record you?”

He backed off but told me to hurry up. So I gathered my notebook and pens with one hand while recording him with the other hand.

As I exited, I saw Ryan to my left, having a similar argument with two officers. I recorded him, too, and that angered the officer. As I made my way toward the door, the officers gave me conflicting information.

One instructed me to exit to my left. As I turned left, another officer emerged, blocking my path.

“Go another way,” he said.

As I turned, my backpack, which was slung over one shoulder, began to slip. I said, “Officers, let me just gather my bag.” As I did, one of them said, “Okay, let’s take him.”

Multiple officers grabbed me. I tried to turn my back to them to assist them in arresting me. I dropped the things from my hands.

“My hands are behind my back,” I said. “I’m not resisting. I’m not resisting.” At which point one officer said: “You’re resisting. Stop resisting.”

That was when I was most afraid — more afraid than of the tear gas and rubber bullets.

As they took me into custody, the officers slammed me into a soda machine, at one point setting off the Coke dispenser. They put plastic cuffs on me, then they led me out the door.

I could see Ryan still talking to an officer. I said: “Ryan, tweet that they’re arresting me, tweet that they’re arresting me.”

He didn’t have an opportunity, because he was arrested as well.

The officers led us outside to a police van. Inside, there was a large man sitting on the floor between the two benches. He began screaming: “I can’t breathe! Call a paramedic! Call a paramedic!”

Ryan and I asked the officers if they intended to help the man. They said he was fine. The screaming went on for the 10 to 15 minutes we stood outside the van.

“I’m going to die!” he screamed. “I’m going to die! I can’t breathe! I’m going to die!”

Eventually a police car arrived. A woman — with a collar identifying her as a member of the clergy — sat in the back. Ryan and I crammed in next to her, and we took the three-minute ride to the Ferguson Police Department. The woman sang hymns throughout the ride.

During this time, we asked the officers for badge numbers. We asked to speak to a supervising officer. We asked why we were being detained. We were told: trespassing in a McDonald’s.

“I hope you’re happy with yourself,” one officer told me. And I responded: “This story’s going to get out there. It’s going to be on the front page of The Washington Post tomorrow.”

And he said, “Yeah, well, you’re going to be in my jail cell tonight.”

Once at the station, we were processed, our pockets emptied. No mug shots. They removed our restraints and put us in a holding cell. Ryan was able to get ahold of his dad. I called my mom, but I couldn’t get through. I couldn’t remember any phone numbers.

We were in there for what felt like 10 or 15 minutes. Then the processing officer came in.

“Who’s media?” he asked.

We said we were. And the officer said we were both free to go. We asked to speak to a commanding officer. We asked to see an arrest report. No report, the officer told us, and no, they wouldn’t provide any names.

I asked if there would ever be a report. He came back with a case number and said a report would be available in a week or two.

“The chief thought he was doing you two a favor,” he said.

The Ferguson Police Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Lowery’s detention.

The following is a statement on the incident from Washington Post Executive Editor Martin D. Baron:

Wesley has briefed us on what occurred, and there was absolutely no justification for his arrest.

He was illegally instructed to stop taking video of officers. Then he followed officers’ instructions to leave a McDonald’s — and after contradictory instructions on how to exit, he was slammed against a soda machine and then handcuffed. That behavior was wholly unwarranted and an assault on the freedom of the press to cover the news. The physical risk to Wesley himself is obvious and outrageous.

After being placed in a holding cell, he was released with no charges and no explanation. He was denied information about the names and badge numbers of those who arrested him.

We are relieved that Wesley is going to be OK. We are appalled by the conduct of police officers involved.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

You see, 2114........... this is where you lose people. EVERYONE is entitled to due process: even the cops that you clearly have no respect for. You have so little respect for them, that you have already decided what happened.... and WHY it happened.

There was a bit of an assumption. What witnesses say though backs up that he had his hand in the air, was grabbed by the cop, was shot at multiple times before being killed away from the car as he tried to leave the scene of the scuffle, and the officer initiated the contact. All Brown did was say he was about at his destination and would get out of the street then, and the officer flung his car door open and hit Brown which bounced the door off of him and onto the officer. That has been stated by multiple witnesses.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

When cops use tear gas and force on a peaceful protest, riots break out. People get confused and angry and take it out on something. It's disrespectful to use that kind of force on people who weren't doing anything. It's what happened when Ruben Salazar was murdered, and it's what happened here. People want to focus on the riots while the cops are doing all of this to protect someone who killed another person.

 

[kmoose]

There was a bit of an assumption. What witnesses say though backs up that he had his hand in the air, was grabbed by the cop, was shot at multiple times before being killed away from the car as he tried to leave the scene of the scuffle, and the officer initiated the contact. All Brown did was say he was about at his destination and would get out of the street then, and the officer flung his car door open and hit Brown which bounced the door off of him and onto the officer. That has been stated by multiple witnesses.

Multiple witnesses have also said that the cop grabbed the kid by the throat, while still in the car, and tried to drag him into the car. Tell me this: How does someone reach the throat of a 6'4" man, while seated in a car and reaching through the window? Wait, that's it!! I've identified the cop: It was Patrolman Stretch Armstrong!! I'm not saying that it didn't happen the way that the eyewitnesses have said it did, but there is certainly a lot of room for doubt in what they have reported seeing. And IF they are lying about the cop grabbing the kid by the throat; what else might they be lying about?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Because he was up by the car window probably. If he was close enough to where the car door could hit him, he could probably have his shirt grabbed by the cop. The cops' story is that Brown somehow dove through the window, hit the cop, tried to grab his gun, and then he was killed 35 feet away. Considering that no witnesses back that up and it's not like those witnesses were talking to make sure they had the same story, I feel like I'll believe the multiple people instead of the guys firing tear gas and pointing sniper rifles at people holding signs.

 

[kmoose]

Because he was up by the car window probably. If he was close enough to where the car door could hit him, he could probably have his shirt grabbed by the cop. The cops' story is that Brown somehow dove through the window, hit the cop, tried to grab his gun, and then he was killed 35 feet away. Considering that no witnesses back that up and it's not like those witnesses were talking to make sure they had the same story, I feel like I'll believe the multiple people instead of the guys firing tear gas and pointing sniper rifles at people holding signs.

Yes, lets believe looters and rioters, and those who burn down buildings, over the guys who are trying to keep that from happening again.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yes, lets believe looters and rioters, and those who burn down buildings, over the guys who are trying to keep that from happening again.

Saying all the witnesses were looters iw like saying all the cops shot this kid in the back.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Yes, lets believe looters and rioters, and those who burn down buildings, over the guys who are trying to keep that from happening again.

Yeah because you know all of these people are looting and rioting. Why do you think all the protesters are looting and rioting?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

There hasn't been any real rioting or looting since Sunday night/Monday morning. But everyone in Ferguson is a "thug" rioter and looter.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Trying to see how tear gassing reporters and taking their equipment down while arresting other reporters is protecting and serving.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The highway patrol captain guy is giving a good interview and it sounds like it'll really diffuse the situation. No riot gear or armored vehicles, the captain marched with the people. Protesters are being treated like people again.

https://twitter.com/WesleyLowery

 

[Domina Nostra]

It's a tough situation. IMO:

- A lot of kids are out of control and lawless and have a lot of people, including police, acting paranoid for very understandable reasons.

- The police seem to resort to deadly force way too quickly and circle the wagons whenever they do anything wrong for as long as they possibly can.

- While outrage at a wrongful killing is justified, and lack of patience is understandable, rioting and looting BEFORE THE FACTS ARE IN seems so, so opportunistic and lawless. It reinforces the paranoia.

- While the police officer may be guilty of murder/unnecessary force, and while the police in general may be overly-militarized, if you don't crack down when riots occur, all hell will break loose.

 

[Grahambo]

...but all cops are bad...and they harass people for no reason...and their gear...

Kansas City cop has dance-off with kids

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

...but all cops are bad...and they harass people for no reason...and their gear...

Kansas City cop has dance-off with kids

ok

 

[kmoose]

Yeah because you know all of these people are looting and rioting.

You're absolutely right. It's almost as ridiculous as saying that all of the cops are tossing tear gas and pointing sniper rifles at people.

I feel like I'll believe the multiple people instead of the guys firing tear gas and pointing sniper rifles at people holding signs.