Recruiting PANIC??? Stop the madness!!

[jonesman]

I look around at all the internet sites and all I see is this mass panic regarding our recruiting sliding into the abys. Let's look at the facts. We just had a mediocre season. Fired a coach. Hired a coach who left a school prior to a BCS game. Have not hired a full staff. Had the recruiting dead period.

OK. So, you add all these up and it creates some issues in recruiting. With all that said, we have lost ONE recruit, Toney Hurd. Chris Martin was gone 6 months ago. We have actually added one new recruit, Chris C. Further, we are involved with several kids who could finalize a decent class given this massive transition. Kids like Barr, Jones, Gaston, Ferguson, James. We have now added names like Boone, Lewis, Ponder, Sponds.

2010 recruiting is a matter of surviving the transition and adding some talent. 2011 is when Kelly will be expected to prove he is among the elite. For those of you who are fearing the worst that ND will settle for 2 and 3star talent, I believe you are not being realistic. Kelly realized at UC he was not going to attract those 4-5star kids, so he pursued the best 2-3star he could with an occassional 4star mixed in.

I am sure that Coach Kelly watched how his 2-3star kids could NOT compete with the talent of UF this past week. This educates anyone how you must have a decent amount of the 4 star kids to compete with the elite schools. Have some faith that our new leader will find the right talent for us to be successful. Just remember, CW had not recruited a single kid prior to 2004, but he figured it out fast.

 

[irishtrain]

I never put much into the recruiting thing until Charlie came and I started with the silly season as I have come to call it in college football. Notre Dame will get what it needs under this guy and what he doesnt get he will coach up. For all the great things that guys like me appreciated Charlie Weis for Notre Dame never lived up to the status of the so called ratings. This coach can do it with what he has been given, what he does bring in ( seems pretty good so far ) and what he builds upon left by a tremendous recruiter. We will see on signing day how it plays out. Just remember this Lou had a nice mix of supposed studs and guys you never heard of who turned out to---excellance. For some reason I trust this guy, cant put my finger on why, Charlie will be smiling in 1/2 years. He will be proud of what he started, and what Kelly put his expertise on.

 

[DCirishfan]

Let's worry about having someone that can actually COACH the players we do get before we worry about the players we don't have. All in good time. Build the program back and we will have the pick of the litter.

GO IRISH

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Nice post jonesman. Sorry but...

YouTube - Madness - One Step Beyond

 

[irish4ever]

Let's worry about having someone that can actually COACH the players we do get before we worry about the players we don't have. All in good time. Build the program back and we will have the pick of the litter.

GO IRISH

Agreed! I said it before, some fans are jusst "star gazers" when they look at the potential recruits. A 4 or 5 star recruitc an be a "bust", just like anyone else. Kelly and his staff are going go after and make every effort to land the players THEY want, not the fans, not CW, not Ty and so on. Let him coach a couple of years before making judgement on how good of coach and recruiter he is!

 

[The Polish Irishman]

Not sure if I am correct or not, but was it BK who was the first to take a helicopter to a recruits friday night game.

 

[The Polish Irishman]

Here is the link to the article:

It also mention Hinton.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/sports/ncaafootball/17recruiting.html

 

[TDHeysus]

Let's worry about having someone that can actually COACH the players we do get before we worry about the players we don't have.

i think its more complicated than that. and to be fair, coaching players is not what Notre Dame wants. Notre Dame wants to WIN games NOW, no excuses. In my opinion, coaching up will not work on the elite level if you dont have the talent. you can maybe have some success with coaching up players on 2nd tier programs, but your not gonna beat the big boys on a regular basis. You need to have the horses to compete. Recruiting is critical.

...Let him coach a couple of years before making judgement on how good of coach and recruiter he is!

I've heard that same thing said since Holtz left. thats what they said about davie.....and willingham....and Weis....are we to maintain the status quo, and assume that this is the right situation now?? Maybe Kelly is the man, but I need to see results FIRST.

"this time its gonna be different, trust me."
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davie = win98
willingham = winxp
Weis = vista
Kelly = windows7?

 

[D-BOE34]

well with us giving the coaches a few years to see how they do... we were able to come to the conclusion that they arent good coaches for the most part and we fired them. So I would say yes, we should give it a few to see how well BK turns the Irish around.

 

[iMANTIusc]

Couldn't agree more with the over-worrying of us ND fans. Biggest thing is that although championships arent built on 4 and 5 star recruits, they dont hurt either. The thing Im most impressed with, and what most people dont realize, is that these guys are graded on their HS positions, and not what they might play at ND. Looking at the commits right now, you got Roback who is 6'3, 221, and runs a 4.58. He may be a RB now, but with that size and speed imagine him as a LB or even WR. Badger could play LB also. And same thing with Ioane, Nichols (TE/OT), etc. All IM saying is that the one thing CK has been all about in players AND coaches is versatilty. This guy has been coaching for 20 some odd years, and has won every where he has gone. I dont care if you play cupcakes every year, to win every year is hard in college. Im not saying he is the next holtz, but what I am saying is that he knows how to build a winning program better than any of us. Teams win championships in football, not players. Saying Florida outclassed Cinci in the bowl game, maybe true but its unfair. Florida had just lost an emotional game, literally, and had something to prove before all those guys graduated. Cinci had just lost their head coach and leader and were completely lackluster through out the game. Not saying its untrue that all the players were better, because it mostly is, but that is an unfair game to use as an example.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Couldn't agree more with the over-worrying of us ND fans. Biggest thing is that although championships arent built on 4 and 5 star recruits, they dont hurt either. The thing Im most impressed with, and what most people dont realize, is that these guys are graded on their HS positions, and not what they might play at ND. Looking at the commits right now, you got Roback who is 6'3, 221, and runs a 4.58. He may be a RB now, but with that size and speed imagine him as a LB or even WR. Badger could play LB also. And same thing with Ioane, Nichols (TE/OT), etc. All IM saying is that the one thing CK has been all about in players AND coaches is versatilty. This guy has been coaching for 20 some odd years, and has won every where he has gone. I dont care if you play cupcakes every year, to win every year is hard in college. Im not saying he is the next holtz, but what I am saying is that he knows how to build a winning program better than any of us. Teams win championships in football, not players. Saying Florida outclassed Cinci in the bowl game, maybe true but its unfair. Florida had just lost an emotional game, literally, and had something to prove before all those guys graduated. Cinci had just lost their head coach and leader and were completely lackluster through out the game. Not saying its untrue that all the players were better, because it mostly is, but that is an unfair game to use as an example.

No no no. It's completely fair. That game showed why "coaching em up" (one of my new least favorite terms, right next to drinking the kool-aid) is not a sustainable model if you want to run with the big boys. If the team story lines had been flipped, people would be saying that Florida players had an emotional edge because they wanted to show that their coach made a huge mistake by bailing on the program or whatever. Both teams had a lot to prove, and Cinci looked like boys playing against men.

At the time, this didn't concern me. I said, o, well Kelly did what he could at Cinci and its silly to say that he got outclassed by Florida because he'll be able to recruit better players at ND. All that talk about playing Qbs at linebacker and kickers at kick return is just talk because those were things he did because he needed to. Well, now we're looking at a disapointing recruiting class (it might turn out good with a few key commits but lets be honest, a lot of those are long shots) and a low number of scholies next year. It worrisome. Not worrisome enough to do anything about, mind you, but voicing reasonable concern on a message board is not exactly overreacting.

For me the biggest concern is that I just don't see a focus on the defensive side of the ball. I might be wrong, Kelly has never said anything like "forget d, we'll just outscore them" but it really seems like the best athletes are all getting offered places on O. Maybe its a recruiting trick, put images in young guys heads of being the hero getting fed the ball and jumping into the diagonal stripes samrdizja style before they're sent to work out with the d-backs the first time they drop a ball in pre-season. If it is, it's a dirty trick. And to be fair, players like I-own (you) are exciting so I'll wait and see. Which is all I can do anyways, as I'm not Swarbrick.

 

[lovetheirish]

can anyone give me a better count on how many schollies nd will have to give out next year, i heard a rumor 13-16. i counted 27 jrs and 5 fifth yr srs. ( i believe). not sure if all jrs are on scholly or not. thanks.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I've heard that same thing said since Holtz left. thats what they said about davie.....and willingham....and Weis....are we to maintain the status quo, and assume that this is the right situation now?? Maybe Kelly is the man, but I need to see results FIRST.

davie = win98
willingham = winxp
Weis = vista
Kelly = windows7?

The difference is that Kelly IS getting results this year. Ty had 8 four star guys and 1 five star guy in his first TWO years.

Kelly currently sits at 8 four star guys this year alone. He has turned a year that should have been a total loss into a top 20 class (actually higher right now on Rivals than last year's class). There is certainly some credit to Weis for that. But Kelly has kept the class largely intact.

Looks like Spond and Iaone are good possibilities and James is still on the board. Those are decent results in a normal year and tremendous results in a transition year after a .500 season.

 

[iMANTIusc]

All Im saying is that that coaching does matter more than players, look at our season. Every team we lost too, we had better players than, except possibly USC. I mean not even close, far and away, every one at every position was bigger, faster, and stronger. Despite this, we still lost. Same thing happened last year. We got beat those games not becasue of the oppnents superior players, but to being outcoached and outclassed. One game, like the Cinci game against Florida doesnt convince me, just like the OK BSU game doesnt convince me of coaching only. All Im saying is that coaching players that fit a system is not bad or worrisome. Would a well coached 5* team beat a well coached 3* team, more than likely, but coaching is more important than players. I am neither pro or anti kelly at this point as he has not coached a game at ND. But I am optomistic and am not worried about his class. We wont know for about 2 yrs how this class was. If he wins, no one will be complaing about lack of stars, and if he loses, all blame will be placed on recruiting...only time will tell.

 

[The Polish Irishman]

The commitment of Spond pushed the class ranking on Rivals.com to #15 in the country

 

[jason_h537]

The only issue i have with kelly (besides the spread) is the idea that the best athletes should have the ball in his hands. It appears that defense is secondary to him, telling Barr and Riley to play reciever is an example. We need defense and Spond is a good start. Hopefully he can put my worries at ease with some upsets in the likes of Ego and Jones (that is unless he plans them to play RB)

 

[GoIrish41]

The commitment of Spond pushed the class ranking on Rivals.com to #15 in the country

There are likely to be dramatic shifts on that list in the coming days as some of these top-end guys commit to their respective programs.

 

[DCirishfan]

I am just happy we have Kelly, we should have axed Chuck last year and we would be a year ahead of the game. Yes Weis lovers you can recruit better when you actually don't suck!!

just kidding

not really

bff jill

 

[The Polish Irishman]

There are likely to be dramatic shifts on that list in the coming days as some of these top-end guys commit to their respective programs.

I really don't see too many programs jumping over the Irish in the rankings. Maybe Cal or O$U. Plus we are looking good for 2 4 Stars and 1 3 Star, but you never know what on happen.

 

[irishtrain]

No no no. It's completely fair. That game showed why "coaching em up" (one of my new least favorite terms, right next to drinking the kool-aid) is not a sustainable model if you want to run with the big boys. If the team story lines had been flipped, people would be saying that Florida players had an emotional edge because they wanted to show that their coach made a huge mistake by bailing on the program or whatever. Both teams had a lot to prove, and Cinci looked like boys playing against men.

At the time, this didn't concern me. I said, o, well Kelly did what he could at Cinci and its silly to say that he got outclassed by Florida because he'll be able to recruit better players at ND. All that talk about playing Qbs at linebacker and kickers at kick return is just talk because those were things he did because he needed to. Well, now we're looking at a disapointing recruiting class (it might turn out good with a few key commits but lets be honest, a lot of those are long shots) and a low number of scholies next year. It worrisome. Not worrisome enough to do anything about, mind you, but voicing reasonable concern on a message board is not exactly overreacting.

For me the biggest concern is that I just don't see a focus on the defensive side of the ball. I might be wrong, Kelly has never said anything like "forget d, we'll just outscore them" but it really seems like the best athletes are all getting offered places on O. Maybe its a recruiting trick, put images in young guys heads of being the hero getting fed the ball and jumping into the diagonal stripes samrdizja style before they're sent to work out with the d-backs the first time they drop a ball in pre-season. If it is, it's a dirty trick. And to be fair, players like I-own (you) are exciting so I'll wait and see. Which is all I can do anyways, as I'm not Swarbrick.

I played the star/recruiting game under Charlie (who I liked) because I listened to the recruiting services and their rhetoric, it doesnt matter a hill of beans and I am convinced this coach is doing it right and will win. Man I loved Weis but now there is a head coach not a head recruiter. Relax- this guy wins games.

 

[faithfulfan]

I really don't see too many programs jumping over the Irish in the rankings. Maybe Cal or O$U. Plus we are looking good for 2 4 Stars and 1 3 Star, but you never know what on happen.

Who are you referring to exactly? I have an idea.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Who are you referring to exactly? I have an idea.

James, Schwenke, and Iaone.