Quarter Season Analysis - State of ND!?!

[theclassickiller]

Dsotm,
I will not look at one single call and blame our coach that we are 1-2. I was in agreement with the call to go for it at UM. It would have been a brilliant call if it was completed. The UM game was lost due to the loss of Crist for almost the entire half.

As for the MSU fake FG, there is not one person on this board who would have even suspected that play. I watched the replay and our D was knocked down in trying to play the coverage.

I am going to watch our team for the body of work, which so far I am seeing progress.

As for those saying that our front 4 will play on Sunday's, I will take that bet. Maybe one of the four will make a team and play some back-up. They are just not overally talented.

Still an Irish and Kelly supporter!!!

Actually I did suspect a trick play and told my brother-in-law it was coming sometime because MSU can only beat us if they use trick plays (and if you go back and watch the last 10 years of ND/MSU games, they always run some kind of stupid trick play(s) against us). At the end when the holder stood up I just wished I could have been sitting next to Diaco saying "told you so."

Not that I would have because he probably felt like the biggest piece of crap in the world right then and that would have probably made him jump out the window.

But I'm with you as a supporter still. Kelly's got some learning to do for sure and I think the magnitude of his position has finally punched him in the face. This isn't the Big East. This is Notre Dame football baby.

 

[irishtrain]

You currently have the number six recruiting class on Rivals, you had poor coaching don't look for other excuses.

14
21
02
08

By the way those are not lottery numbers either, that would be your last four class rankings.

Sir, I think you are a mich guy so whats the point. Recruiting numbers are just that numbers. Of course you want highly regarded players but player development is the real game within the game. Anyone on this planet knows Notre Dame has not recruited a large amount highly regarded defensive guys for a few years. The ones who are highly regarded are playing and playing well. They will catch up and the development of the lesser guys will be the key. Dont throw it in the face of people on this site that we get highly regarded guys and dont use it. The culture will change and just enjoy your victory this year-will see you in Ann Arbor in '11.

 

[RDU Irish]

Dsotm,
I will not look at one single call and blame our coach that we are 1-2. I was in agreement with the call to go for it at UM. It would have been a brilliant call if it was completed. The UM game was lost due to the loss of Crist for almost the entire half.

As for the MSU fake FG, there is not one person on this board who would have even suspected that play. I watched the replay and our D was knocked down in trying to play the coverage.

I am going to watch our team for the body of work, which so far I am seeing progress.

As for those saying that our front 4 will play on Sunday's, I will take that bet. Maybe one of the four will make a team and play some back-up. They are just not overally talented.

Still an Irish and Kelly supporter!!!

I was wondering how good their kicker was and if a 46 yard attempt had a prayer. Even an above average kicker may be 50/50 from that distance if you are lucky. Given that, I was worried about the fake. Not saying I called it but rather surprised we weren't more prepared for it. FG wouldn't beat us and a good chance we win even with no pressure.

By the same token, our players did not execute and got owned off the line and then fell down for a wide open play. Maybe they were coached up for it but did not execute?

I dunno but I still see us moving in the right direction. GO IRISH!!!

 

[irish4ever]

Actually I did suspect a trick play and told my brother-in-law it was coming sometime because MSU can only beat us if they use trick plays (and if you go back and watch the last 10 years of ND/MSU games, they always run some kind of stupid trick play(s) against us). At the end when the holder stood up I just wished I could have been sitting next to Diaco saying "told you so."

Not that I would have because he probably felt like the biggest piece of crap in the world right then and that would have probably made him jump out the window.

But I'm with you as a supporter still. Kelly's got some learning to do for sure and I think the magnitude of his position has finally punched him in the face. This isn't the Big East. This is Notre Dame football baby.

I too suspected something. I told my son while watching that ND needs to play against a fake/trick play and at worst they would go to a 2nd OT. Sure enough ....

I tool am still a big supporter of this team and the coaching staff. This group (and future teams) are going to be just fine w/ these coaches!

 

[theclassickiller]

You currently have the number six recruiting class on Rivals, you had poor coaching don't look for other excuses.

14
21
02
08

By the way those are not lottery numbers either, that would be your last four class rankings.

I'm not positive what you mean by poor coaching here. Do you mean Kelly coached poorly? Or Weis coached poorly?

First of all, Weis didn't coach PERIOD so I'm going to assume you meant this year's game with Kelly.

If that's the case then we could argue that Kelly outcoached Rodriguez by a mile sans a few bad decisions (like the TD call at the end of the half).

When it was first team vs. first team Kelly took RichRod to school. It wasn't even a contest. And the only reason RichRod looks any good coaching right now is because he only has to make two calls: "Denard, go do something" or "Punt."

Michigan is going to get figured out real fast (actually they have been figured out).

"Wait you mean when Robinson pumps like he's going to throw the ball, he's actually going to run up the middle?" I'm so tired of seeing the same plays for Michigan the entire game. I'll give it to you, they were exciting to watch at first. Now it's same old same old. I assure you the UMass coaches watched the second half ND/MICH game tape 100 times, because Saturday Robinson looked ordinary against a miserable team.

But if you weren't talking about Kelly, sorry, nothing against you as a person. I just spew hate for Michigan from every pore.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

I was wondering how good their kicker was and if a 46 yard attempt had a prayer. Even an above average kicker may be 50/50 from that distance if you are lucky. Given that, I was worried about the fake. Not saying I called it but rather surprised we weren't more prepared for it. FG wouldn't beat us and a good chance we win even with no pressure.

By the same token, our players did not execute and got owned off the line and then fell down for a wide open play. Maybe they were coached up for it but did not execute?

I dunno but I still see us moving in the right direction. GO IRISH!!!

I to was worried about a fake. But every time a team lines up for a punt or field goal I am paranoid. Like others have said, it looked like ND had it covered...but did anyone else notice that it looked like the MSU guys just ran over the defenders when they were jammed at the line? I think the contact can occur up to five yards, it was close. They just need to hold their ground and they didn't.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Kelly expected a fake. Holtz expected a fake. Holtz' expectation is proven by the fact that he explained what Diaco did to counter the exact sort of thing Dantonio ran. AND Holtz said that the defensive design was excellent---it, as is usual with all these things that people are [ignorantly in my opinion] screaming at Kelly about, was a failure not of schematic design strategy but of player execution [plus a little illegal plowing into the defender by the tight end ;what would in normal, legal circumstances be called offensive pass interference. --- This is a thing pointed out to me, by the way, by persons who are not primarily ND fans]. Holtz analyzed the alignment precisely to cover the fake receiver possibilities. Their tight end bulldozed the Safety [I believe it was] and ran free.

 

[RDU Irish]

What Mike said. I didn't catch any of the post game so thanks for sharing.

 

[Jo Jo the Dog Faced Boy]

Definately offensive pass interference.....

Definately offensive pass interference.....

Like others have said, it looked like ND had it covered...but did anyone else notice that it looked like the MSU guys just ran over the defenders when they were jammed at the line? I think the contact can occur up to five yards, it was close. They just need to hold their ground and they didn't.

An eligible receiver isn't allowed to make contact anywhere downfield one yard is down field, not five yards. That was clearly offensive pass interference, but no way in hell was one of those refs gonna drop that flag. Still not an excuse though, we should of been in a base defense with a deep zone, no way that guy's kicking that field goal. Should have at least called a time out before that play, what was it fourth and 22?

I agree no one should be panicking. Dayne Crist is playing unbelievable for a first time starter. Clausen's stats for his third start (also against MSU)....7 for 16 for 43 yards, no td, no int. Still didn't throw a td on the year yet. Crist threw for 369 and four td in his first road start!

Just need the defense to wake up at the critical times in games and we'll be fine. I don't buy into that a few breaks and we'd be 3-0 crap however. We are also a few breaks for Purdue away from being 0-3, works both ways.

 

[Riddickulous]

Although the initial panic has subsided, it comes down to this: This is still very much a Charlie Weis team.

Not only was Charlie's player development bad, it was downright horrid. Highly rated players showed up on campus and then simply disappeared into obscurity, enough to evoke this statement from Colin Cowherd: "Notre Dame is the Bermuda Triangle of college football, where five-star recruits disappear without a trace." There's a long, long list of players that bombed here.

Knute Rockne couldn't erase all of Weis' mistakes in one offseason. The key here is patience.

 

[lookingdeadred]

good evaluation, on the mark

good evaluation, on the mark

The only thing I would challenge, your WR/TE evaluation:
1. The TE play has been brilliant. Rudolph is a beast, which I am sure you agree.
2. The WR play is a mixed bag, which is pretty darn good at this point in the season. All are learning a new QB and a new system. Riddick, who is learning to be a WR, showed against Sparty that he may become a very good slot receiver. TJones is a true frosh with so much to learn. And then there is Floyd. Yes, he has been disappointing at times, but he has way too much talent for this to continue.

Again, well said, Jason.

Coaching: Frustrating at times, you se areas of improvement but some boneheaded calls the last weeks, its not all on the coaches but they gotta shoulder some of the blaim

QB: Solid improvement each week, Crist will be just fine

RB: Allen is solid, we need to run more. Over 50 pass attempts, are you serious?

WR/TE: Dissapointing, i expect so much more out of this group

OLine: Good, still struggle at times but have played far greater than i expected

DLine: Starters have been great all year, do we have any backups?

LB: Slow on the edges, this is a huge problem

DB: Corners have played solid but injuries have killed us. Motta is clearly not ready and These guiys are REALLY tired

ST: Punting needs to find consitancy

 

[Riddickulous]

Jason lumped TEs and WRs into one group, as in this offense they basically have the same job: Get open and catch the football. The WR play as a whole is seriously lacking.

Michael Floyd has been the biggest disappointment of the season of any player. He should be putting up more than 66 yards on Michigan's secondary.

Before Saturday, Theo Riddick was averaging 26 yards a game. Not good.

TJ had 2 catches for 10 yards on Saturday. Take away his 53 yard touchdown and he has just 83 yards on the year. He needs to be more consistent.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

Sir, I think you are a mich guy so whats the point. Recruiting numbers are just that numbers. Of course you want highly regarded players but player development is the real game within the game. Anyone on this planet knows Notre Dame has not recruited a large amount highly regarded defensive guys for a few years. The ones who are highly regarded are playing and playing well. They will catch up and the development of the lesser guys will be the key. Dont throw it in the face of people on this site that we get highly regarded guys and dont use it. The culture will change and just enjoy your victory this year-will see you in Ann Arbor in '11.

Sir you are correct, I am a Michigan Man. But the point of my post was because of an ND fan on this board saying that they couldn't recruit talent. I was pointing out that you could, and that it was poor coaching that didn't help them. I will enjoy this years victory as much as I did last years, and I will be there for the night game.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Sir you are correct, I am a Michigan Man. But the point of my post was because of an ND fan on this board saying that they couldn't recruit talent. I was pointing out that you could, and that it was poor coaching that didn't help them. I will enjoy this years victory as much as I did last years, and I will be there for the night game.

If you're a "Michigan Man" what are you doing posting 185 times on IrishEnvy?

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

I'm not positive what you mean by poor coaching here. Do you mean Kelly coached poorly? Or Weis coached poorly?

First of all, Weis didn't coach PERIOD so I'm going to assume you meant this year's game with Kelly.

If that's the case then we could argue that Kelly outcoached Rodriguez by a mile sans a few bad decisions (like the TD call at the end of the half).

When it was first team vs. first team Kelly took RichRod to school. It wasn't even a contest. And the only reason RichRod looks any good coaching right now is because he only has to make two calls: "Denard, go do something" or "Punt."

Michigan is going to get figured out real fast (actually they have been figured out).

"Wait you mean when Robinson pumps like he's going to throw the ball, he's actually going to run up the middle?" I'm so tired of seeing the same plays for Michigan the entire game. I'll give it to you, they were exciting to watch at first. Now it's same old same old. I assure you the UMass coaches watched the second half ND/MICH game tape 100 times, because Saturday Robinson looked ordinary against a miserable team.

But if you weren't talking about Kelly, sorry, nothing against you as a person. I just spew hate for Michigan from every pore.

No, I was talking about Weis. And if Michigan is so easy to figure out, why did we win? I'm sorry but if it's so easy that your average forum poster could figure out then we wouldn't be #10 in total offence. But this thread isn't the place for this discussion.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

If you're a "Michigan Man" what are you doing posting 185 times on IrishEnvy?

Trying to bring light to the darkness

 

[Old Man Mike]

To GO BLUE: when you began posting I thought that this was a gentlemanly exchange and generally good for all of us. Your team has won the football game, an event of apparently great importance to you---well, fine, and I am happy for you. You have begun to demonstrate that you are a very bad winner, however, which surprises me, given your claims at the beginnings of your postings. Being a bad winner is far worse than being a bad loser, and much detracts from the reputation of your university, which you allegedly revere. None of my Michigan friends would hang around a Notre Dame site telling everyone how much they are savoring the wins. Each of these true Michigan men have a generosity which has somehow escaped you. I can only hope that you are in fact NOT a Michigan graduate as you seem to have missed what the school as an academic institution stands for. If there is any of that value system and maturity in you, say some nice things about your honorable opponent and leave it like that. Yes, I'd absolutely have done the same to you, and have done in other instances with my friends. If you however are actually a jerk, and I don't know, only you know, you will of course protest your innocence and continue to strut about your victory without any care about the institution that your nickname represents. Any comments such as "well, they did it to me" merely shows that egocentrism trumps values and the fact that it is you that won and thereby should be more gracious. Very distressing. What did you learn as to being a civilized citizen over in Ann Arbor.? I've mentioned this to some of my adult Michigan friends and they just shake their heads.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Trying to bring light to the darkness

:swordfigh

Bring it on.

 

[irishtrain]

Hey guys let me post this as I think it gets to the core of an Irish backer. There is no reason to go back and forth with some guy from another team. I made my point about 'D' talent and I believe Kelly will get this done. Almost to the point where I am relaxed about it because this team is 'game'. They are playing the right way and have been beaten because they were just not good enough- yet. Strange as it may sound this waiting and the journey will be fun because this guy will win and win alot. To me it feels like Holtz's first year, they were game and gave big effort but just were not good enough that year. What I want to see is the continued big effort with discipline that they are showing. Look at the penalty difference already and Kelly will want and will get that even better. My eyes tell me this team is better, are the good yet - maybe not but by seasons end they will be. This turnaround is being done correctly. As for me I'm not enjoying this and would like to be 3-0 but there will be a time when 3-0 will be a given. They need key defensive players and when they get that they will win. The new guys are just that new guys and they will get better, bigger, and blooded. When that happens and the 'D' catches up to Kelly's ease of putting up points are you kidding me that they wont win. These other teams know this is true or they wouldnt be on this board getting in a few licks. Notre Dame will be OK.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

***

 

[phork]

Ahh Mr. Blue is ok. A rational UM fan, if ever there was one...

 

[RDU Irish]

Sorry OMM, you lost me on Michigan being a bastion for educational excellence. I have to give reps to Harbaugh for calling Michigan out for their abysmal graduation rate for African American football players. I remember looking up their team twenty years ago and seeing virtually the entire roster majoring in Kinesiology.

Stanford is one of the few programs that I will give credit for commitment to the student-athlete. Yes you can get a wonderful education at just about any school, but that is the exception rather than the rule at most D-1 programs.

 

[theclassickiller]

No, I was talking about Weis. And if Michigan is so easy to figure out, why did we win? I'm sorry but if it's so easy that your average forum poster could figure out then we wouldn't be #10 in total offence. But this thread isn't the place for this discussion.

Because we were without Crist for an entire half. Do you honestly think after seeing the second half that you could have won that game with him in?

Do you mean you're #10 in offences committed by players? I wouldn't argue that, although I don't know the exact rankings.

But if you mean #10 in total offense then that is pretty easy to explain. You've played a DIVII school (who almost beat you and is #60 in total defense in DIVII), a team who got blown out by Temple (#94 in total offense), and were on the field for 35 minutes against Notre Dame (who outgained you in total offense in only 25 minutes).

 

[irish4ever]

***

WTF is that?

 

[JeremyND07]

I think you were way too nice grading the OLB! They are slow, not athletic, and get caught out of position time and time again. I know I have said it before but can we PLEASE put some beef on our safeties/corner and move to OLB. I would much rather have a quick 220 OLB then the 250 pound wanna be DE at OLB!

 

[Riddickulous]

WTF is that?

I think it's a word that rhymes with sass.

I think you were way too nice grading the OLB! They are slow, not athletic, and get caught out of position time and time again. I know I have said it before but can we PLEASE put some beef on our safeties/corner and move to OLB. I would much rather have a quick 220 OLB then the 250 pound wanna be DE at OLB!

We tried putting a faster, smaller, quicker, out-of-position guy at OLB once. His name was Travis Thomas. Needless to say he pretty much sucked.

Oh, and Hayseed. He was decent. But with our woeful safety depth, we can't move him anywhere.

 

[theclassickiller]

I think it's a word that rhymes with sass.



We tried putting a faster, smaller, quicker, out-of-position guy at OLB once. His name was Travis Thomas. Needless to say he pretty much sucked.

Oh, and Hayseed. He was decent. But with our woeful safety depth, we can't move him anywhere.

Yeeeaaaaaah... but he kinda sucked period.

 

[jason_h537]

We tried putting a faster, smaller, quicker, out-of-position guy at OLB once.

I cant believe thats how thin we were at LB. Guys are complaining now about ourd D but at leats Robert Hughes and Jonas Gray arent getting PT on D

 

[lookingdeadred]

UM is a great public university

UM is a great public university

usually ranked near the top of the nation's public universities, despite problems with "student athletes".

Sorry OMM, you lost me on Michigan being a bastion for educational excellence. I have to give reps to Harbaugh for calling Michigan out for their abysmal graduation rate for African American football players. I remember looking up their team twenty years ago and seeing virtually the entire roster majoring in Kinesiology.

Stanford is one of the few programs that I will give credit for commitment to the student-athlete. Yes you can get a wonderful education at just about any school, but that is the exception rather than the rule at most D-1 programs.

 

[IrishinSyria]

usually ranked near the top of the nation's public universities, despite problems with "student athletes".

There's no doubt UM can be a great place to get educated. The issue is that all too often it's not for football players and other big-time athletes. Rich Rod was forcing guys to change their majors if they conflicted with his (illegal) practice schedule. At ND, things work the other way around: you WILL receive a world-class education and you can play a sport at a top level. But you will be a student first.