Post Game Observations (Florida State '14)

[blackirish]

We lost! Have all your excuses you can but at the end of the day ND lost to FSU! Let's move on to hoping we win out because honestly, that is not 100%. Let's talk when ND goes 11-1....

I agree. At this point I don't care what Winston has done off the field and we can call him all the names that we can come up with but I'm going to give the young man credit were credit is do their CS when in at 1/2 time an made adjustments and In the 2nd half he lit us up and their running game got stronger during the course of the game, was it a bad call, well.....no because no matter how we feel it was the correct call made at a bad time, but at the same time we got away with it a couple of times but as one poster stated.... We got caught.

 

[Lepresean]

If we ran down all the obviously bad non-'calls' we would be whiny little b's. Rather stick with the fact!

I completely agree with you, the whining makes us look petty. I was just making sure I wasn't wrong about what I saw. I am upset about the loss, but as long as we finish out the season without losing and we make the playoff then I am okay. If it costs us the playoff then I will be mad.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

That 4th and 18 to Corey though... Not ever going to forget that play.

 

[kmoose]

Aside from the blown coverage (which it was).

Can someone fill me in on this rule.

When a wr is jammed at the line, aren't they allowed 5 yards to make contact and fight for their route?

This is the rule:

7-3-8-b



Offensive pass interference by a team a player beyond the neutral zone during a legal forward pass play in which a forward pass crosses the neutral zone is contact that interferes with a team b eligible player. It is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents. It is not offensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-IV, V, X, XV and XVI):
1.When, after the snap, a team a ineligible player immediately charges and contacts an opponent at a point not more than one yard beyond the neutral zone and does not continue the contact more than three yards beyond the neutral zone.
2.When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bona fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of either team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-IX).
3.When the pass is in flight and two or more eligible players are in the area where they might receive or intercept the pass and an offensive player in that area impedes an opponent, and the pass is not catchable.

 

[pkt77242]

*I* am trolling? I think you better go back and see who has been attacking whom, in this thread.

I made an observation that you can't blame the loss on the officials, because there were questionable calls on both sides of the line. If you look at the Observer Vine video, it sure looks like Fuller's right elbow comes up, just after contact, in an attempt to keep the defender inside of him. That's a block. And that's PI... I'm not trolling, I am defending my view from people who have called me a dick, a troll, and who have continually tried to hyperbolize my words to make it look like they are obviously right.

So the refs are suppose to see Fuller leverage his arm but not the hold. That is your defense?

 

[NDALA]

Hoping like hell this loss puts a chip on our shoulder and we go on a tear to finish the season.

Me too! That's our best case scenario from here on.

 

[blackirish]

The other thing here is, who was it called on? I was listening to the audio and it sounds like it was on 7, not 20. Fuller isn't the block everyone is discussing.

When your conference keeps winning the NC year after year ( with the exception of last year ) then in some circles the Bias is what it is and the only way to take care of it is to start beating them when and if you get to the NC but if you don't .... the bias will remain

 

[Rhode Irish]

The other thing here is, who was it called on? I was listening to the audio and it sounds like it was on 7, not 20. Fuller isn't the block everyone is discussing.

When your conference keeps winning the NC year after year ( with the exception of last year ) then in some circles the Bias is what it is and the only way to take care of it is to start beating them when and if you get to the NC but if you don't .... the bias will remain

What the what? Why did you quote a seemingly random post from many pages earlier only to reply to it with something totally unrelated (to anything)?

 

[kmoose]

So the refs are suppose to see Fuller leverage his arm but not the hold. That is your defense?

My defense of what?

 

[Me2SouthBend]

And now the mother ship has Keyshawn (yes a U$C enrollee) providing analysis. How could that possibly be jaded?

 

[blackirish]

Sorry man. I vehemently reject that its a legit call and I've stated why.

I respect that and as I stated we got away with it twice . Now if the reciever's hands were up ala the " swim move that reciever's are taught then it proably would not have been called because their hands would have been up, but both of them kept their hands down which made them appear to be blocking which is basically a pick.... Which is a no no.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

I don't know about you guys but I have basically been on suicide watch all day.

This sucks.

 

[PapaIrish37]

*I* am trolling? I think you better go back and see who has been attacking whom, in this thread.

I made an observation that you can't blame the loss on the officials, because there were questionable calls on both sides of the line. If you look at the Observer Vine video, it sure looks like Fuller's right elbow comes up, just after contact, in an attempt to keep the defender inside of him. That's a block. And that's PI... I'm not trolling, I am defending my view from people who have called me a dick, a troll, and who have continually tried to hyperbolize my words to make it look like they are obviously right.

KMoose, I rarely post anymore because of these kind of back and forth, never ending arguments and the personal attacks that seem to occur. You are also one of the posters who I think is most even-handed and knowledgeable.

However, I really can't agree with your interpretation here. (No, I don't think you are trolling at all and I appreciate your expertise). Even if they called this on Fuller (which it now seems they did), I really don't see the elbow that you do. I am not going back to other plays in the game (I am in Latvia on business and was watching by replays only on espn). In this case though, I have spent most of today watching all of the replays of this play several times. My thoughts:

1. WF's elbow comes up as he is trying to turn and get by Darby. Call it OPI if you want but that is a stretch (WF's head is looking at Golson and doesn't turn to CR until the ball is in the air and obviously not coming his way).
2. CJ is almost pulled to ground with the defender's arm wrapped around his outside shoulder and grabbing his jersey on the field (not boundary) side. Defensive holding.
3. These penalties should offset if you call WF. Play over (again).

These kids were robbed.

I could care less about all of us fans.

EG's postgame comments are just amazing: class, composure, calm and resolve. Hopefully we win out.

The official who threw the flag should be investigated by the ACC if for no other reason that this sort of reaction by that official should not occur again - how did he get so open, gee Coach X said they were running a pick and there seemed to be contact, I better throw a flag. It could even be BK calling for something next time (I haven't seen the replays of the UNC snapper penalty so maybe it already occurred).

I am not whining. As fast as the play occurred he had to be responding to the result (too open, etc.) and not something he actually saw. ND had other chances and no game ever is completely decided by one play but when you take points off the board with a call like that, these kids were robbed.

Go Irish!

 

[pkt77242]

My defense of what?

Of why it is a penalty. You keep saying that Fuller leverages his arm which is about as hard to notice as the fact that CJ was being held by the DB. Either both are hard to notice or neither are but you keep using one to argue your point and when people bring the other one up you tell them that it is too difficult to see (and it is plain from any of the replays that CJ was held not just the one).

 

[PapaIrish37]

Also, was it the side judge who threw the flag? From where he is in the corner, he can't possibly see all the action occurring between WF and the defender. Most of it is happening to the inside. Also, CJ's arms are down because he is trying to prevent himself from falling and in no way is WF holding his arms in a blocking posture or is he pushing out with them as WR's almost always block.

 

[Irishman77]

Also, was it the side judge who threw the flag? From where he is in the corner, he can't possibly see all the action occurring between WF and the defender. Most of it is happening to the inside.

No the two refs on that side (goaline and back corner) both signaled td. It was the back middle who could only see the backs of the db's and not them holding our guys..fucking bogus!

 

[yankeehater]

Not sure if it has been discussed, but I just read Kelly's comments on ESPN. One of the FSU defenders immediately removed his helmet which is a penalty. The penalties, I believe, offset. ND has another shot from the 3 which makes the play calls more diverse and opportunity to score more realistic. Hell, Golson could just run around and scramble in then!!!

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

This is the rule:

Darby blew the coverage. He was supposed to go with the receiver that ran the outside pattern..Robinson. The inside FSU CB Williams was going to cover the inside route..Fuller. The switch was to mitigate the effect of the rub. Instead he inexpicably jumped Fuller's slant route, leaving the outside route wide open. After the play, Ramsey immediately screams at Darby. Ramsey did his job of holding up Prosise. Williams was waiting for inside route.

Great formation. Poor execution by the FSU DB Darby. Touchdown ND.

No penalty should have been called.

You can't possibly argue otherwise.

 

[kmoose]

Darby blew the coverage. He was supposed to go with the receiver that ran the outside pattern..Robinson. The inside FSU CB Williams was going to cover the inside route..Fuller. The switch was to mitigate the effect of the rub. Instead he inexpicably jumped Fuller's slant route, leaving the outside route wide open. After the play, Ramsey immediately screams at Darby. Ramsey did his job of holding up Prosise. Williams was waiting for inside route.

Great formation. Poor execution by the FSU DB Darby. Touchdown ND.

No penalty should have been called.

You can't possibly argue otherwise.

So your argument is that because the Florida State Defensive backs got confused, then any blocking that ND's receivers might have done, with the ball in the air, is not Pass Interference?

 

[texbender]

In the end, it's like BK says...to beat the champ you gotta knock him out. Had our chances down to the last play. Needed a stop in the 2nd half to force a FG instead of a TD.
Likes D in 1st half, leaky secondary 2nd half. Run game was great. Golson looks hesitatnt at times, wish they would throw to the backs every now and then.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Replay up anywhere?

 

[BobD]

I like the argument "yes it was a penalty, but they hardly ever call it!"

I speed in my car a lot and rarely get caught. Next time I do, I'm gonna try the argument " oh sure officer, you catch me now at this inconvenient time and not all the other times. You should let this slide because I was going much faster last week"

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

So your argument is that because the Florida State Defensive backs got confused, then any blocking that ND's receivers might have done, with the ball in the air, is not Pass Interference?

No, my argument explains the reason why Robinson is open. It had nothing to do with Fuller or Promise impending anyone. They ran their routes accordingly. It was the FSU defender that put himself out of position. The penalty was assumed by the ref...possibly because of Fisher complaining during the game. After reviewing the play, the ref, if he had any integrity, would admit the mistake. You have watched the replay and yet you cling to your contention that it was the right call. Why?

 

[BGIF]

Replay up anywhere?

Google lists a couple for free. I didn't try any as I have it on dvr.

 

[BGIF]

I believe it is 3 yards in college.

You're correct, Syria posted the rule last night. kmoose and I both reposted that rule in other posts in this thread. The LOS was at the 2-1/2 yd line so a half step into the end zone makes the 3 yds.

 

[kmoose]

No, my argument explains the reason why Robinson is open. It had nothing to do with Fuller or Promise impending anyone. They ran their routes accordingly. It was the FSU defender that put himself out of position. The penalty was assumed by the ref...possibly because of Fisher complaining during the game. After reviewing the play, the ref, if he had any integrity, would admit the mistake. You have watched the replay and yet you cling to your contention that it was the right call. Why?

That is your guess, or he said so, somewhere?

 

[GBdomer]

This worth the 14 page read? Anybody meltdown last night? Cliffs please

 

[Riddickulous]

This worth the 14 page read? Anybody meltdown last night? Cliffs please

14 pages of debate over whether there was offensive PI or not. That's about it.

 

[BGIF]

14 pages of debate over whether there was offensive PI or not. That's about it.

There were quite a few comments about the quality of play by Golson, Folston, Robby, The OLine, the Defense, Brindza, BVG's D and Kelly's play calling ... and there were a couple that weren't happy with eithre BVG's or Kelly's play calling.

 

[Green Goblin]

No the two refs on that side (goaline and back corner) both signaled td. It was the back middle who could only see the backs of the db's and not them holding our guys..fucking bogus!

Exactly.

The guy with the worst vantage point made the call....think about that for a minute.