Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%

  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%

  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%

  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%
  • Total voters
    352
Irish#1

Irish#1

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ColoradoIrish

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drayer54 said:
Let the state decide
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I have a better idea. Let the women decide. If somebody doesn't want an abortion they don't have to get one, but why should healthcare access for someone be decided upon by others?
 
TorontoGold

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ColoradoIrish said:
I have a better idea. Let the women decide. If somebody doesn't want an abortion they don't have to get one, but why should healthcare access for someone be decided upon by others?
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If it's truly murder then their opinion shouldn't to have any sort of time range, it should be outlawed entirely. No such provisions for any rape/incest abortions, if it's murder you don't just arbitrarily murder someone who's a rapist much less an injured party in the rape. They should also outlaw IVF, fertilizing multiple eggs but you're only going to go forward with one? Yeah that should be a murder charge because you've now just killed a human life.

But, we know it's not about saving "human life".
 
sixstar

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ColoradoIrish said:
I have a better idea. Let the women decide. If somebody doesn't want an abortion they don't have to get one, but why should healthcare access for someone be decided upon by others?
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Do you think taxpayers who morally oppose abortions should have to pay taxes that subsidize abortion cost?
 
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ColoradoIrish

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sixstar said:
Do you think taxpayers who morally oppose abortions should have to pay taxes that subsidize abortion cost?
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I think that's a loaded question tbh. Should tax payers have to pay for others Viagra? Because that happens as well. We all pay for things they taxes we didn't necessarily agree with
 
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It's not a loaded question. It's a yes/no question, and I'd like your answer.
 
NDVirginia19

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TorontoGold said:
If it's truly murder then their opinion shouldn't to have any sort of time range, it should be outlawed entirely. No such provisions for any rape/incest abortions, if it's murder you don't just arbitrarily murder someone who's a rapist much less an injured party in the rape. They should also outlaw IVF, fertilizing multiple eggs but you're only going to go forward with one? Yeah that should be a murder charge because you've now just killed a human life.

But, we know it's not about saving "human life".
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Real Pro Lifer’s are in favor of no exceptions. There is certainly a moral sliding scale though and I understand somewhat why people are more moderate on the issue. IVF is a distinct issue to me. IVF is a goal to create a human life, whereas abortion is strictly for the destruction of life. I think the only reasonable exceptions are if the fetus is not viable or the life of the mother is threatened.
 
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ColoradoIrish

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sixstar said:
It's not a loaded question. It's a yes/no question, and I'd like your answer.
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Then yes, I view it as healthcare and I think it's one of the things that should be provided to everyone. It's cheaper for us as a society in the long run and I don't believe we should allow any religious beliefs to be a determining factor when it comes to deciding what kind of healthcare is appropriate.
 
TorontoGold

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NDVirginia19 said:
Real Pro Lifer’s are in favor of no exceptions. There is certainly a moral sliding scale though and I understand somewhat why people are more moderate on the issue. IVF is a distinct issue to me. IVF is a goal to create a human life, whereas abortion is strictly for the destruction of life. I think the only reasonable exceptions are if the fetus is not viable or the life of the mother is threatened.
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For Pro Lifers how can there be a rational sliding scale? If it’s murder then it’s murder. How is IVF not worse than abortion? You have fertilized viable eggs that you are choosing to destroy. With abortion you’re only getting rid of the one, IVF is significantly more.
 
Bishop2b5

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ColoradoIrish said:
I have a better idea. Let the women decide. If somebody doesn't want an abortion they don't have to get one, but why should healthcare access for someone be decided upon by others?
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For the same reason that you can't decide your 6-month-old is too much work or an inconvenience or too expensive and you don't want to be a parent after all, so you engage in infanticide. It's 100% a woman's choice to get pregnant or not, but once a life is started, it's not just about her any longer.
 
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ColoradoIrish

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Bishop2b5 said:
For the same reason that you can't decide your 6-month-old is too much work or an inconvenience or too expensive and you don't want to be a parent after all, so you engage in infanticide. It's 100% a woman's choice to get pregnant or not, but once a life is started, it's not just about her any longer.
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There are plenty of times it's not her fault, condom breaks, girl gets raped, medicine she's taking interacts poorly and makes her birth control not work, guy she is with has a vasectomy that didn't work. I don't agree that life starts at conception but at birth. Hell there's still births where the kid is born dead. If the parents aren't together can the mom get back child support for the previous 9 months? Most women aren't using abortions to have protection free sex. We're allowed to disagree on things. And that's why if the decision was left to women it would impact those that are pro life. You just don't have to get one.
 
Bishop2b5

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ColoradoIrish said:
There are plenty of times it's not her fault, condom breaks, girl gets raped, medicine she's taking interacts poorly and makes her birth control not work, guy she is with has a vasectomy that didn't work. I don't agree that life starts at conception but at birth. Hell there's still births where the kid is born dead. If the parents aren't together can the mom get back child support for the previous 9 months? Most women aren't using abortions to have protection free sex. We're allowed to disagree on things. And that's why if the decision was left to women it would impact those that are pro life. You just don't have to get one.
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And yes, reasonable people can disagree. I understand that accidents happen and unexpected or unwanted pregnancies happen. I also understand that that is a known risk and consequence of having sex. An oopsie doesn't make it OK to kill a baby. If you drive a car, you don't plan on having a wreck, but it's a known risk and consequence of doing so. When and if it happens, you don't get to say, "Well I didn't mean to, so I shouldn't have to be responsible for the wreck." As for the idea that if you're against abortion, just don't have one is like saying, "If you think it's wrong to kill your toddler, then don't, but don't try to stop anyone else from killing theirs."

I'm not opposed to abortion in the case of rape or incest, and certainly not when the mother's life is at risk. I realize that's not an absolute at conception position and all abortion is murder stance, but I'm also trying to take into account the needs of a woman who's life is in the balance or who's not responsible for her pregnancy due to rape or other extenuating circumstances. As for life beginning at birth though, I can't agree with you on that. As a parent, I can assure you that most parents absolutely think of their unborn child as a person, listen to its heartbeat, love it, and etc. long before it's born.
 
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ColoradoIrish

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Bishop2b5 said:
And yes, reasonable people can disagree. I understand that accidents happen and unexpected or unwanted pregnancies happen. I also understand that that is a known risk and consequence of having sex. An oopsie doesn't make it OK to kill a baby. If you drive a car, you don't plan on having a wreck, but it's a known risk and consequence of doing so. When and if it happens, you don't get to say, "Well I didn't mean to, so I shouldn't have to be responsible for the wreck." As for the idea that if you're against abortion, just don't have one is like saying, "If you think it's wrong to kill your toddler, then don't, but don't try to stop anyone else from killing theirs."

I'm not opposed to abortion in the case of rape or incest, and certainly not when the mother's life is at risk. I realize that's not an absolute at conception position and all abortion is murder stance, but I'm also trying to take into account the needs of a woman who's life is in the balance or who's not responsible for her pregnancy due to rape or other extenuating circumstances. As for life beginning at birth though, I can't agree with you on that. As a parent, I can assure you that most parents absolutely think of their unborn child as a person, listen to its heartbeat, love it, and etc. long before it's born.
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I totally get it, my cousin has twins that didn't make it past 5 months in the womb and they had to induce her to force the pregnancy. She was beart broken with it because they were her boys. And that shaped my views on the subject for the longest time. And I do agree there's consequences for everything in life and it's important to teach teenagers the consequences of sex. I guess my views changed over time because of the people I have seen that had kids at a young age and couldn't properly take care of them. They were either too immature, poor or just had other issues and it all directly affected the children in negative ways. My view shifted to "it's not my body, it's not my choice". I personally never would have had an abortion if I found myself in that situation, but that's my life, and I don't feel someone else should have that choice taken from them. I grew into a more libertarian approach I guess, keep the government out of the decision making process, and if it doesn't directly affect me then I don't really care.

Only part I disagree with is the comparison to murder of toddler, that's obviously abhorrent and completely wrong. My view on when the fetus is a kid just shifted and because of that so did my view.
 
RDU Irish

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Abortion up to age 26 - as long as they are financially tied to me I should be able to off them. Let's start there and then full term abortion of viable, healthy babies starts to look quite humane. Why is that burden at 6 months old protected when it is not at 38 weeks pregnant?

I always say - there is a difference from what is between you and God and what is between you and government. Government has no business even trying to outlaw abortion in the first trimester, IMO. That doesn't mean it is a morally acceptable to me - just not the purview of government. Our society is quite broken when we look at babies as nothing but a burden.
 
TorontoGold

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The biggest of LOL's at "society is broken if we look at babies as a burden" but at the same time "social safety nets are bad!" "Immigrants are destroying the country!.
 
RDU Irish

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TorontoGold said:
The biggest of LOL's at "society is broken if we look at babies as a burden" but at the same time "social safety nets are bad!" "Immigrants are destroying the country!.
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Gold medal level mental gymnast says what? You are seriously Simone Biles of mental gymnastics.
 
Irish#1

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do-it-yourself-hammer-hitting-nail-on-the-head.jpg
 
TorontoGold

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ab2cmiller said:
From looking at the comments, I just found out that Barry was a grandson of Hitler.
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Honestly, I actually learned something from seeing that video. I didn't realize he was registered as Barry Soetero in Indonesia when he was a kid from looking at other sources.

I still want to know what #1 thinks about it because on it's face it seems like Pizzagate but maybe he has a take.
 
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