Politics

[IrishinSyria]

Keyboard diarreah. Tell me one country with a huge government that has centralized power, controls everything, and is successful.

China?
North Korea?
Russia?
Greece?
Italy?
Spain?
France?
UK?
Ireland?
Cuba?
Venezuela?

Big government fails over and over, yet here we are in past decades using the same formula and saying, "we can do it better." What a joke.

America

 

[RallySonsOfND]

The Scandanavian countries.

Each about the size of a single state.

 

[Buster Bluth]

1) If you're more worried about people "overreacting" from a terrorist attack on American soil, I don't know what else to tell you. The Red Army or China isn't going to show up on the eastern seaboard any time in the next century. Any Islamic nutjob screaming "alluha akbar" can jump on a train in NYC or LA and kill hundreds of people tomorrow.

To be in a state of perpetual worry because a nutjob can kill is a recipe for bad news as a country.

Again, the military-industrial complex can't even give you protection from that. And in an ironic twist, if one checks what the CIA/intelligence people write, these "Islamic nutjobs" are doing it in retaliation for our Middle Eastern presence. So the gigantic spending to put out this fire is, if the intelligence community is to be believed, sorta causing the fire.

2) I'm sure there can be some cuts to our huge military, but I know neither you nor I have the knowledge or experience to determine where or how much.

3) I don't feel bad for the 1% at all. Not the least. But before we start raising taxes on business and middle class Americans (where all the money is), let's look inward first.

That's a fine way to look at it. However I feel looking towards the military is, at worst, equal in importance to looking at domestic spending. We spend a stupid amount on our military.

 

[DonnieNarco]

Each about the size of a single state.

Okay, but we're the third-largest country so there aren't going to be very many good comparisons throughout the world with this. They still fulfill the requirements in the question asked.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

To be in a state of perpetual worry because a nutjob can kill is a recipe for bad news as a country.

Again, the military-industrial complex can't even give you protection from that. And in an ironic twist, if one checks what the CIA/intelligence people write, these "Islamic nutjobs" are doing it in retaliation for our Middle Eastern presence. So the gigantic spending to put out this fire is, if the intelligence community is to be believed, sorta causing the fire.



That's a fine way to look at it. However I feel looking towards the military is, at worst, equal in importance to looking at domestic spending. We spend a stupid amount on our military.

A state of perpetual worry? Nah. Just aware of the world we live in. "Islamists were responsible for 80 percent of 17,958 deaths from terrorism worldwide in 2013, according to the Global Terrorism Index of the Institute for Economics and Peace, an Australian think tank." --- Pittsburgh Post Gazette

In regards to our defense budget, you and I can't sit here and determine the perfect number for it. All I've proposed thus far is that at least it belongs at the top of our priority list. The others I listed (EPA, Dept of Energy, Dept of Edu, Dept of Homeland Security) are mostly useless and take up billions. That's a start.

 

[palinurus]

That's a silly way of phrasing it. I don't think closing corporate loopholes so that they actually contribute to the upkeep of the country is a bad thing. When General Electric pays $0 in taxes, there's a problem.

I don't a progressive tax on capital gains, so the billionaires of the country don't get to sidestep income taxes the rest of us pay, is a crazy idea.



Such as?

Right, it's silly. That's why I wish the Democrats and the media (and people who agree with them) would stop putting it that way. That's essentially what the "fairness" argument is saying: the folks actually paying taxes are greedy and aren't paying enough (they're unfair) and the people (or the number of people) who receive, or should receive, the benefits of the tax (i.e., the recipients of government spending) should get more (they're the victims of this unfairness). And the "monied" parties are greedy and even unpatriotic. Biden told us that. This is implicit (or even explicit oftentimes) in all the "fairness" arguments.

It's also incorrect, btw, to say GE paid "$0 in taxes". It comes from a discredited NY Times article from a few years ago. I remember looking at it because it didn't sound right. GE has paid taxes in the years claimed.

The problem, of course, is that you could tax GE at 100% and it wouldn't resolve the problem. The debt is, what, $14 trillion? And the deficit is growing, not shrinking. And removing capital from corporations is going to close that gap how? I think you and I agree: we can't tax our way out of this. Corporate growth is how you foster a flourishing economy, not increasing corporate taxes.

As to permanent "temporary" taxes, is your point you don't think there have been any, meaning, we haven't had taxes that started as temporary that became permanent? Google it. You'll find plenty.

 

[DonnieNarco]

Worrying about a terrorist attack is useless. It won't end, and the best thing we can do is focus on Americans, not a foreign terror that has resulted in relatively few American deaths in America. We spend trillions on unwinnable wars, that actually are great for the Islamic fundamentalist movement, while we have so many problems here.

 

[DonnieNarco]

The EPA is useless if you don't want clean water and air or a liveable environment.

 

[DonnieNarco]

Keystone pipeline firm files for eminent domain against Nebraska landowners - LA Times

Canadian company files to steal the land of Americans.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Corporate growth doesnt necessarily mean a flourishing economy though, americans wages have been stagnant for the last decade while top executives pay has continually risen at an insane rate. If anything we've seen lately is indicative of the future is that most the profits just get pocketed by the owners and executives. Workers keep seing their benefits and and vacation/sick days dimish with no increase in pay. Its important to find a way for the wealth to "trickle down" otherwise there eventually wont be a middle class.

 

[GoIrish41]

Corporate growth doesnt necessarily mean a flourishing economy though, americans wages have been stagnant for the last decade while top executives pay has continually risen at an insane rate. If anything we've seen lately is indicative of the future is that most the profits just get pocketed by the owners and executives. Workers keep seing their benefits and and vacation/sick days dimish with no increase in pay. Its important to find a way for the wealth to "trickle down" otherwise there eventually wont be a middle class.

What is in fact happening is 180 degrees out from what the GOP has insisted would happen for the past 30 plus years Yet the still cling to a philosophy that has been disproven. We should return the tax rates to the level of the 1960s and rebuild the middle class.

 

[palinurus]

Corporate growth doesnt necessarily mean a flourishing economy though, americans wages have been stagnant for the last decade while top executives pay has continually risen at an insane rate. If anything we've seen lately is indicative of the future is that most the profits just get pocketed by the owners and executives. Workers keep seing their benefits and and vacation/sick days dimish with no increase in pay. Its important to find a way for the wealth to "trickle down" otherwise there eventually wont be a middle class.

This is true (in bold). But I'm not sure you can have a long term, sustained flourishing economy without it. But it's true, corporate growth doesn't guarantee it.

 

[RDU Irish]

A state of perpetual worry? Nah. Just aware of the world we live in. "Islamists were responsible for 80 percent of 17,958 deaths from terrorism worldwide in 2013, according to the Global Terrorism Index of the Institute for Economics and Peace, an Australian think tank." --- Pittsburgh Post Gazette

In regards to our defense budget, you and I can't sit here and determine the perfect number for it. All I've proposed thus far is that at least it belongs at the top of our priority list. The others I listed (EPA, Dept of Energy, Dept of Edu, Dept of Homeland Security) are mostly useless and take up billions. That's a start.

So one in 335,000 people in the world died from terrorism last year. A similar amount are estimated to die from lightning strikes annually. Boil it down further, I bet golfers are more likely to be struck by lightning than die from a terrorist attack, yet what are we encouraged to wring our hands over?

Military is treated like education, no amount of money is enough! Completely ridiculous.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Worrying about a terrorist attack is useless. It won't end, and the best thing we can do is focus on Americans, not a foreign terror that has resulted in relatively few American deaths in America. We spend trillions on unwinnable wars, that actually are great for the Islamic fundamentalist movement, while we have so many problems here.

Unlike you, I believe most Americans would rather not sit around and wait for the next attack. I want every asset we have (humans and tech) being as proactive as possible in preventing any attack on Americans.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The EPA is useless if you don't want clean water and air or a liveable environment.

So before the EPA we were all drinking dirty water? Where do you get this stuff?

 

[dshans]

So before the EPA we were all drinking dirty water? Where do you get this stuff?

Some, but not all. Too many, in fact.

There were burning rivers.

Acid rain destroying fish, trees and pipes.

Smog alerts left and right.

Love Canal.

Toxic dumps from sea to shining sea.

Asbestos floating free.

Oil spills that resulted in little more than a shrug.

Feel free to chime in ...

 

[RDU Irish]

Unlike you, I believe most Americans would rather not sit around and wait for the next attack. I want every asset we have (humans and tech) being as proactive as possible in preventing any attack on Americans.

Spare no expense but don't infringe on my liberty or raise my taxes. Probably think death panels are bad but don't want everyone to have unlimited access to healthcare. Lines have to be drawn and the downfall of "great" civilizations tend to hinge on being unable to say "no".

Had we given each victim family $10 million dollars and focused on rebuilding NYC ASAP we would be about $1 trillion ahead of the game plus a reduced economic burden of the walking wounded which is drastically more than the cost of lost lives that are even more tragic.

It shouldn't cost trillions to blow up huts and caves in the third world. Massive military operations to do so seem incredibly counter productive to me. On top of that, we get hung up on "profiling" so that our resources are retardedly inefficient at flushing out bad actors.

 

[DonnieNarco]

Unlike you, I believe most Americans would rather not sit around and wait for the next attack. I want every asset we have (humans and tech) being as proactive as possible in preventing any attack on Americans.

Do so at a reasonable price for Americans that doesn't involve invading foreign countries and killing even more Americans and people. Trillions wasted on the "War on Terrorism", which was about as successful as the "War on Drugs"

 

[Buster Bluth]

Unlike you, I believe most Americans would rather not sit around and wait for the next attack. I want every asset we have (humans and tech) being as proactive as possible in preventing any attack on Americans.

In regards to our defense budget, you and I can't sit here and determine the perfect number for it. All I've proposed thus far is that at least it belongs at the top of our priority list. The others I listed (EPA, Dept of Energy, Dept of Edu, Dept of Homeland Security) are mostly useless and take up billions. That's a start.

Interesting.

For what it's worth, the EPA (0.2%), Departments of Energy (0.9%), Education (1.9%), are 3% of the federal budget.

The Defense Department (17.7%), Veterans Affairs (3.7%), and Homeland Security (1.5%) are 22.9% of the budget. By it's very nature you could reduce the budgets by the same percentage and save 7x more.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Interesting.

Billions spent blowing up foreigners overseas is good. Billions spent inconveniencing me in line at the airport is bad.

 

[DonnieNarco]

Why get rid of the EPA? So big business can rape and pillage the Earth and poison people in the name of profit?

 

[DonnieNarco]

We could save money by getting rid of the FDA too and go back to having rats in our meat.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Why get rid of the EPA? So big business can rape and pillage the Earth and poison people in the name of profit?

lol

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Interesting.

For what it's worth, the EPA (0.2%), Departments of Energy (0.9%), Education (1.9%), are 3% of the federal budget.

The Defense Department (17.7%), Veterans Affairs (3.7%), and Homeland Security (1.5%) are 22.9% of the budget. By it's very nature you could reduce the budgets by the same percentage and save 7x more.

Fair enough. It's a start, like I said.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Some, but not all. Too many, in fact.

There were burning rivers.

Acid rain destroying fish, trees and pipes.

Smog alerts left and right.

Love Canal.

Toxic dumps from sea to shining sea.

Asbestos floating free.

Oil spills that resulted in little more than a shrug.

Feel free to chime in ...

Sounds like rapture day. I just don't believe that...

1) Without the EPA we'd all be killing ourselves and businesses would be "pillaging the earth" for profits

2) Without the federal government kids won't be able to read, write, and do math

3) We would have no energy if it weren't for the dept of energy

4) The Dept of Homeland Security is worth the money and takes a back seat to FBI, CIA, etc.

5) Our growers and those in the food community will be helpless without the dept of agriculture

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Spare no expense but don't infringe on my liberty or raise my taxes. Probably think death panels are bad but don't want everyone to have unlimited access to healthcare. Lines have to be drawn and the downfall of "great" civilizations tend to hinge on being unable to say "no".

Had we given each victim family $10 million dollars and focused on rebuilding NYC ASAP we would be about $1 trillion ahead of the game plus a reduced economic burden of the walking wounded which is drastically more than the cost of lost lives that are even more tragic.

It shouldn't cost trillions to blow up huts and caves in the third world. Massive military operations to do so seem incredibly counter productive to me. On top of that, we get hung up on "profiling" so that our resources are retardedly inefficient at flushing out bad actors.

The defense budget should be our top priority every year, perhaps now more than ever. Could we trim some fat? Sure. What exactly that magic number should be? I'll be the first to say I don't have a clue, and neither do you.

At the very least, I can point to the Dept of Education and say that 1) it's found nowhere in the Constitution and 2) it's up to the states, so the Feds need not be involved 3) since its founding, we've spent more and more money on Edu yet our rankings have dropped consistently

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

ummmmm....no. Obama has carried the largest debt of all time( over 6 trillion) Bushy is second (around 5.8)

Debt is not deficit. Bush left us with a $1.8T DEFICIT in a single year. When you cut taxes drastically and increase spending the way he did you unbalance the fiscal equation to the point of no return.

THESE TWO HUGE ONES COMES TO MIND
Medicare-D
The dramatic increases in Military spending

None were paid for and we are STILL racking up debt on them. So, which do we cut drastically? Or which taxes do you think we should raise to pay for them?

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Depends on your age. I'm 32. I'd be a fool to assume SS will be there to fund, or partially fund, my retirement.

My point still stands - if I invested that small percentage of my earnings over the next thirty years, I'd produce enough income to retire. Instead, I'll keep my fingers crossed that Congress can fix the problems they've created.

Small percentage better mean 20%. If you put away less than that, you are screwed.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

American families may pay less to the government now than they have in the past, but that doesn't mean the percentages I listed are inaccurate. I can show you a paycheck of mine with commission: normal paychecks about 30% goes to the gov, and with commission it goes up to about 40%. And yes I am middle class. So what am I wrong about?

withholding is not taxes paid...

My family is in the Top5% and we pay nowhere near 20% actual taxes paid. But when I get a bonus, it is withheld at 39.6%...but you get it back.

The only way you could actually be paying 30% to the Feds is if you clear over 200k. (since the first 189,000 is taxed below 30%)

That would put you firmly in the upper-middle class

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Second, tax increases are usually permanent;

You missed the last 25 years of tax changes didn't you? They've only been going down