Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

chicago51

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Just as I need a photo ID to get a gun permit, each citizen should show a photo ID in exercising their right to vote. Person A and persn B have to go through the same processes to get a gun permit. The same principle needs to be applied to voting. It's not the Republicans' fault that thousands of Democratic voters have no ID. It's also false that every voter without an ID is Democrat or a minority.

Many states adopted plans for FREE voter ID cards. Others offered plans where the ID is actually brought to your house.

The problem is you're stuck in this belief that we still live in 1952.

I'm going to take a pragmatic view on the matter.

You can make a case for voter IDs. I don't think voter fraud is as big of an issue as some make it out to be but I get the logical motive behind having a valid proof of identification.

But.....

Does anyone care to explain how cutting early voting reduces voter fraud?

How about understaffed and underequiped polling places?

How about the lack of polling places for certain communities?

I personally would be more easily sold on having voter IDs if it was not accompanied by all this other crap that does nothing to reduce voter fraud. Cutting early voting just makes it harder for working families particularly with children who can't get off on election Tuesday to vote, it doesn't reduce voter fraud.
 

irishog77

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I'd be fine with eliminating voter ID laws....assuming all voters either owned property, paid taxes, and/or served in the military.

Otherwise, I don't want to hear about how difficult it is for an individual to muster up some sort of identification to go vote.

Further, I wholeheartedly believe it is racist to believe "minorities" are overly burdened to have to provide an identification for the privilege of voting.
 

Wild Bill

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Voter fraud is a red herring. IDs would prevent "in person" voter fraud that is virtually non-existent in any state in this nation. The goal here is to keep minorities away from the polls so that more Republicans have a chance to win elections.

Yes that is my quote. It is a statement of fact. You know how I know its a statement of fact ... that when it was pointed out to the republicans that their policies disproportionally affected minorities, they didn't back away from them to come up with new ideas. They continued to pursue them with more and more fervor. They know that removing a chunk of this voting block will increase their odds.

I`m suggesting that making millions of PEOPLE have a new requirement to fix a nonexistent problem is stupid, expensive and self serving for the GOP.

Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Your last line is a joke that might have been clever if this was actually happening.

Exactly. Rahm would like you.
 

GoIrish41

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I'd be fine with eliminating voter ID laws....assuming all voters either owned property, paid taxes, and/or served in the military.

Otherwise, I don't want to hear about how difficult it is for an individual to muster up some sort of identification to go vote.

Further, I wholeheartedly believe it is racist to believe "minorities" are overly burdened to have to provide an identification for the privilege of voting.

Poll tax?

You believe it is racist for people to believe something that has been been proven to be a fact. Got it.

I assume you mistakenly type privilege when you meant to type right.
 
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RallySonsOfND

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Poll tax?

You believe it is racist for people to believe something that has been been proven to be a fact. Got it.

I assume you mistakenly type privilege when you meant to type right.

How is it a poll tax if the ID is free? Texas has voter ID laws, if you don't have one of the forms of ID already, you can get a free voter ID card.
 

irishog77

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Poll tax?

You believe it is racist for people to believe something that has been been proven to be a fact. Got it.

I assume you mistakenly type privilege when you meant to type right.

Shocker that a guy who believes a free ID is burdensome also believes that owning property, paying taxes (you know, contributing to society), or serving in the military is a poll tax.

I believe anything that further identifies a group of people as "minorities" is racist. I also believe people who suppress others through the chains of welfare are racist. What the hell facts are you talking about? And what the hell does this "You believe it is racist for people to believe something that has been been proven to be a fact" even mean?

No. I didn't mistakenly type anything.
 

GoIrish41

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I am no constitutional scholar but what you are advocating for is banned in the 24th amendment so me and the rest of the country don't think your brilliant original idea is constitutional. A provision to own propwety as a prerequisite to voting is by dedinition a poll tax. So there is that.

And since voting is a constitutional right your use of privilege exposes your ignorance of the topic you are so fevorishly arguing about. You might want to know something about a topic before you argue about it.
 
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irishog77

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I am no constitutional scholar but what you are advocating for is banned in the 24th amendment so me and the rest of the country don't think your brilliant original idea is constitutional. So there is that.

Paying a fee to go vote in a booth is different than owning property, paying taxes, and serving in the military.

So there is that.
 

GoIrish41

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Paying a fee to go vote in a booth is different than owning property, paying taxes, and serving in the military.

So there is that.

Seriously dude, you might want to look it up instead of continuing to argue about something you know nothing about. The 24th Amendment exists specifically to prevent what you are suggesting. You don't have to take my word for it.
 

irishog77

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Seriously dude, you might want to look it up instead of continuing to argue about something you know nothing about. The 24th Amendment exists specifically to prevent what you are suggesting. You don't have to take my word for it.

Seriously dude, I know what the amendment says. And now for like the 4th time, I'm not suggesting a poll tax. You're the one hung up on that.

Again, paying taxes is not the same thing as a fee (tax) to vote. Or do you want to keep arguing that? And the 24th Amendment does not exist to prevent what I'm suggesting.

I guess you don't care that I said "and/or" either in my original statement either. Why don't you do some research on how "and/or" contributes to a statement.

Now, quit pretending to be the smartest guy in the room. You're clearly not.
 

chicago51

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Anyone care to answer how reducing early voting helps with voter fraud?

Like I said I get the ID thing, well I at least get the logic of voter ID.

What about some of the other stuff going on?

Cancelling or reducing early voting?

Understaffed and under equiped polling places?
 

GoIrish41

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Seriously dude, I know what the amendment says. And now for like the 4th time, I'm not suggesting a poll tax. You're the one hung up on that.

Again, paying taxes is not the same thing as a fee (tax) to vote. Or do you want to keep arguing that? And the 24th Amendment does not exist to prevent what I'm suggesting.

I guess you don't care that I said "and/or" either in my original statement either. Why don't you do some research on how "and/or" contributes to a statement.

Now, quit pretending to be the smartest guy in the room. You're clearly not.
Making owning property a prerequisite to voting is a poll tax. When you own property you pay taxes on it. When you have to pay that tax in order to vote that is unconstitutional. You are either just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are an idiot and/or a jackass. Your master plan takes the country back to the early 1960s. And so do these new laws the GOP are pushing.
 
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GoIrish41

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Anyone care to answer how reducing early voting helps with voter fraud?

Like I said I get the ID thing, well I at least get the logic of voter ID.

What about some of the other stuff going on?

Cancelling or reducing early voting?

Understaffed and under equiped polling places?

I think you know the answer already. lol. These laws are indefensible.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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No, I'm saying that he was great at observing what was going on around him and making predictions based on that information. His solutions were as full of problems as they system he was trying to fix. One does not have to fully embrace Marxism to recognize that he was right about some things.

I concur 100%.

He observed, made predictions, and was wrong everywhere.

I'll call bullshit here. You're going to need to elaborate and explain to me how a prediction can be wrong if Marx's main premise was that capitalism wasn't an evil per se but a necessary phase in social/economic evolution, as it doesn't imply an end date.

All his "solutions" caused more problems than they solved and his predictions were pretty wrong.

Where have polices, of which Marx would approve, actually been installed? I'll wait while you compile the list.

Technology took over these jobs and yet, income per person has risen ( and so have living standards, from technology). Technological advance are the best way to fuel growth, dont be so quick to try to downplay its importance.

We all agree that capitalism destroyed classical poverty and increased the standards of living for everyone (when regulated properly). Also no one here is against "technological advances," and I haven't seen anyone downplay their importance or even hint that we should slow down. I think everyone is having a pretty mature conversation about recognizing the social pains that could be ahead of us now that we see what this second automation revolution is capable of doing. It's not even some "one day yadda yadda" talk about what's past the horizon, it's discussing advances that are already being tested in labs and such around the world.

No one here is a Marxist, to my knowledge at least. You don't have to be a Marxist to appreciate his criticisms of the negatives of capitalism (while still pointing out the positives). I don't have to be a backstabbing son of a bitch to respect what Machiavelli wrote either, to give a comparison.
 
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irishog77

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Making owning property a prerequisite to voting is a poll tax. When you own property you pay taxes on it. When you have to pay that tax in order to vote that is unconstitutional. You are either just arguing for the sake of arguing or you are an idiot and/or a jackass. Your mastet plan takes the country back to the early 1960s. And so do these new laws the GOP are pushing.

You can pay taxes without owning property, Einstein. And you don't have to pay "that tax" to vote.

Are you most pissed off that you didn't actually read my original statement, that you didn't actually understand it, or that you're incapable of discussing it...instead trying to bash something you didn't read and/or understand?

The bolded-- probably the dumbest thing I've seen you write...which is saying a lot.
 

GoIrish41

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You can pay taxes without owning property, Einstein. And you don't have to pay "that tax" to vote.

Are you most pissed off that you didn't actually read my original statement, that you didn't actually understand it, or that you're incapable of discussing it...instead trying to bash something you didn't read and/or understand?

The bolded-- probably the dumbest thing I've seen you write...which is saying a lot.

Look genius nobody is saying you have to own property to pay taxes. I'm saying it is unconstitutional to require land ownership as a prerequisite to voting. Incidently military service as a prerequisite is equally unconstitutional. Voting is a right and you are suggesting placing your own personal beliefs as a box to check for people to exercise that right.

The laws that reversed these backward laws happened in the 60s. You suggesting we reverse them takes us back there. How is that stupid. Im sorry if the statement was beyond you comprehension.
 
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IrishLax

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FWIW, and this is pretty ancillary to what's actually being discussing, but voting is a right that has always been and continues to be subject to infringement in certain scenarios. Which is why we've had so many Amendments to remove specific infringements and provide protections of voters' rights.

Currently, the only infringements in place that I'm aware of are:
1. Age. Must be 18, some states allow 17 year olds to vote in primaries/caucuses.
2. Criminal. Cannot be serving a sentence for felony conviction or be on probation (specifics vary by state).
3. Citizenship. Must be a US citizen, not just a permanent resident, to vote in federal election (I think... dunno if there are any exceptions to this).
4. Residency. If you are a US citizen, you must have established residency in one of the 50 states or DC to vote... you cannot have your primary residency somewhere else outside the country, even a US territory.
5. Mental competency. I'm not sure on this, but I believe for most states the law is quite fuzzy on whether someone can be disenfranchised based on their mental faculties. I think there are a handful of states that have added laws to the books protecting rights of the mentally disabled, but I think the others have some grey area. Not sure what the ADA has to say.

In short, voting rights are probably one of the least black and white parts of the Constitution. That is why we have had so much legislation on it throughout history, and that's why things like Voter ID laws fall in such a grey area. The have to explicitly violate a state law, the Constitution, or an Amendment to get struck down.
 

GoIrish41

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NBC News - Breaking News & Top Stories - Latest World, US & Local News

Turns out that Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher who Fox News gushed over as an American who taking a stand against big government, does not recognize the existence of the United States government and is an unapologetic racist who things black people were better off in bondage. Good to know that there are gun-toating morons who will line up to stand behind such a guy if there is the possibility that they can finally get in a gun fight with federal officers.

note: anyone who wants to give me grief about this post, please address your wrath at my wife and daughters as I am going to hide behind them if this argument heats up. I hear that is the manly thing to do.
 

chicago51

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I want to talk about the internet.

I'm going to ignore the fact for now that we have a virtual monopoly in telecom world and we need to break these companies up and get more competition for internet as well as cell phone service.

Obama appointed this guy Tom Wheeler to head the FCC and this guy is a total hack. Turns out he was a lobbyist for the telecom industry prior to being head of the FCC. Now he wants to end equal treatment of legal content on the internet. Basically what he is proposing to me is only a first step but one that could destroy free speech on the internet.

Right they are only talking about rich corporations being able to purchase a super highway in terms of speed. However what isn't taken into account is that search engines use sight speed as part of their criteria.

I also see a possibly down the road of ISPs offering consumers a limited internet access to certain sites in exchange for faster speeds.

We already got a broken corporate media, we got a broken campaign finance system partially thanks to the Supreme Court, so the internet is really all we got left in hopes of achieving the informed educated electorate Jefferson talked about.

I also think President Obama should fire this hack he pick to run the FCC after all he violates what Obama campaigned on. He won't which makes Obama a hack too!

Net Neutrality Will Be Saved Only If Citizens Raise an Outcry | The Nation
When Barack Obama was running for president in 2007, he earned a great deal of credibility with tech-savvy voters by expressing support for net neutrality that was rooted in an understanding that this issue raises essential questions about the future of open, free and democratic communications in America.

Obama “got” that net neutrality represented an Internet-age equivalent of the First Amendment—a guarantee of equal treatment for all content, as opposed to special rights to speed and quality of service for the powerful business and political elites that can buy an advantage.

Asked whether he thought the Federal Communications Commission and Congress needed to preserve the Internet as we know it, the senator from Illinois said, “The answer is ‘yes.’ I am a strong supporter of net neutrality.”

“What you’ve been seeing is some lobbying that says that the servers and the various portals through which you’re getting information over the Internet should be able to be gatekeepers and to charge different rates to different Web sites,” explained Obama, who warned that with such a change in standards “you could get much better quality from the Fox News site and you’d be getting rotten service from the mom and pop sites.”

Obama’s bottom line: “That I think destroys one of the best things about the Internet—which is that there is this incredible equality there.”

Candidate Obama was exactly right.

So was President Obama when, in 2010, the White House declared that “President Obama is strongly committed to net neutrality in order to keep an open Internet that fosters investment, innovation, consumer choice, and free speech.”

And President Obama certainly sounded right in January 2014, when he said, “I have been a strong supporter of net neutrality. The new commissioner of the FCC, Tom Wheeler, whom I appointed, I know is a strong supporter of net neutrality.”

The president expressed that confidence in Wheeler, even as concerns were raised about an appointee who had previously worked as a cable and wireless industry lobbyist.

Now, barely three months after the president identified him as “a strong supporter of net neutrality,” Wheeler has rolled out a proposal that our most digitally engaged newspaper, The Guardian, delicately suggests would “axe-murder Net Neutrality.”

According to Los Angeles Times tech writer Jim Puzzanghera, the plan “would allow Internet service providers to charge companies for faster delivery of their content.”

Gabe Rottman, an American Civil Liberties Union legislative counsel and policy advisor who focuses on First Amendment issues, correctly explains, “If the FCC embraces this reported reversal in its stance toward net neutrality, barriers to innovation will rise, the marketplace of ideas on the Internet will be constrained, and consumers will ultimately pay the price.”

Wheeler tried to soften the blow by claiming that criticisms from public-interest groups, based on initial reports about his plan, were “flat-out wrong.” “There is no ‘turnaround in policy,’” Wheeler announced. “The same rules will apply to all Internet content. As with the original Open Internet rules, and consistent with the court’s decision, behavior that harms consumers or competition will not be permitted.”

But, after reviewing “the outlines of the proposal released by [Wheeler’s] office on Wednesday,” Puzzanghera’s “Tech Now” report explained that:


Although the plan would reinstate the agency’s prohibition against Internet providers from blocking any legal content, it would allow phone and cable companies to charge Netflix and other companies to put their content in a super-fast lane on the information superhighway.

The plan appears to violate a basic principle of net neutrality that all similar content should be treated equally.

Tim Karr, of the media reform group Free Press, says: “All evidence suggests that Wheeler’s proposal is a betrayal of Obama and of the millions of people who have called on the FCC to put in place strong and enforceable net neutrality protections.”

The Future of Music Coalition’s Casey Rae argues that any FCC initiative that establishes a model for speeding up delivery of content for paying customers is “not ‘net neutrality.’”

The risk, says Rae is that, “the Internet in America will now be carved into a fast lane for well-heeled corporations and a dirt road for everyone else.”

“These proposed rules not only don’t go far enough to safeguard consumers, they actively marginalize smaller and independent voices,” explains Rae, who says, “Artists, developers, culture workers, media-makers, nonprofit organizations, community, civic and church groups must tell the FCC that this isn’t good enough. We need real rules of the road for ISPs to guarantee that creative expression and entrepreneurship can thrive in the online ecosystem. FMC and our allies look forward to making this case in the upcoming rulemaking after May 15.”

Rae’s point is an important one. The process is just beginning. It can be influenced by content creators, consumers and citizen activists who understand that in this age of digital communications a broken Internet will lead to a broken democracy. It can even be influenced by the president and members of Congress, who ought to speak up, loudly, in favor of the right approach to net neutrality.

There are two simple steps to take:

1. Recognize that there is a right response to court rulings that have rejected the complex and ill-thought approaches that the FCC has up to now taken with regard to net neutrality. The right response is to reclassify broadband Internet access as a telecommunications service that can be regulated in the public interest.

When the FCC’s clumsy previous attempt at establishing net neutrality protections was rejected in January by the US District Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, the court did not say that the commission lacked regulatory authority—simply that it needed a better approach. As David Sohn, general legal counsel at the Center for Democracy & Technology, notes, the court opinion laid out “exactly how the FCC essentially tied its own hands in the case, and makes it clear that the FCC has the power to fix the problem.”

“The Court upheld the FCC’s general authority to issue rules aimed at spurring broadband deployment, and accepted the basic policy rationale for Internet neutrality as articulated by the FCC,” explains Sohn. “The arguments in favor of Internet neutrality are as strong as ever, but prior FCC decisions on how to treat broadband have painted the agency into a corner. Those decisions are not set in stone, however, and the ball is now back in the FCC’s court. The FCC should reconsider its classification of broadband Internet access and reestablish its authority to enact necessary safeguards for Internet openness.”

The approach that Wheeler is now proposing continues down the wrong course, and actually veers into even more dangerous territory with its outline for a pay-to-play "fast lane" on the Internet. But this proposal can be altered or rejected by the full commission. In other words, the reclassification option can still be pursued.

Please support The Nation. Donate now!

2. Recognize that this is the time to send a clear signal of support for genuine net neutrality. The FCC has listened in the past when a public outcry has been raised, on media ownership issues, diversity issues and Internet access issues. Wheeler is a new chairman. It’s vital to communicate to him, and to the other members of the commission that President Obama was right when he said that establishing “fast lanes” on the Internet “destroys one of the best things about the Internet—which is that there is this incredible equality there.”

Dozens of public interest groups, ranging from the American Civil Liberties Union to the Government Accountability Project to the PEN American Center to Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting and the National Hispanic Media Coalition have urged the FCC to do the right thing. The “Save the Internet” coalition has a track record of rapidly mobilizing Americans to thwart wrongheaded moves by the FCC.

They’re already up and at it, with a petition urging Wheeler and the FCC to “scrap” approaches that won’t work and “restore the principle of online nondiscrimination by reclassifying broadband as a telecommunications service.”

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders says, “Our free and open Internet has made invaluable contributions to democracy both here in the United States and around the world. Whether you are rich, poor, young or old, the Internet allows all people to seek out information and communicate globally. We must not turn over our democracy to the highest bidder.”

Sanders is right about that—especially when he recognizes the vital link between technology and democracy. A free and open Internet is essential to modern democracy. But that freedom and openness will be maintained only if Americans use their great democratic voice to demand it.

There is a way to save net neutrality. And if ever there was a time for citizens to urge the FCC to go the right way, this is it.
 
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C

Cackalacky

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I'll call bullshit here. You're going to need to elaborate and explain to me how a prediction can be wrong if Marx's main premise was that capitalism wasn't an evil per se but a necessary phase in social/economic evolution, as it doesn't imply an end date.



Where have polices, of which Marx would approve, actually been? I'll wait while you compile the list.



We all agree that capitalism destroyed classical poverty and increased the standards of living for everyone (when regulated property). Also no one here is against "technological advances," and I haven't seen anyone downplay their importance or even hint that we should slow down. I think everyone is having a pretty mature conversation about recognizing the social pains that could be ahead of us now that we see what this second automation revolution is capable of doing. It's not even some "of day yadda yadda" talk about what's on the horizon, it's discussing advances that are already being tested in labs and such around the world.

No one here is a Marxist, to my knowledge at least. You don't have to be a Marxist to appreciate his criticisms of the negatives of capitalism (while still pointing out the positives). I don't have to be a backstabbing son of a bitch to respect what Machiavelli wrote either, to give a comparison.

Exactly. I loathe the idea that Capitalism as it is currently practiced today in the US is beyond reproach and any sullying of its name is concurrent to being a socialist or Marxist. Capitalism is not the pinnacle of economic practices and can be and must be improved upon. The trick as I see it is to be magnanimous in all aspects of our life and to move forward together.

FWIW, and this is pretty ancillary to what's actually being discussing, but voting is a right that has always been and continues to be subject to infringement in certain scenarios. Which is why we've had so many Amendments to remove specific infringements and provide protections of voters' rights.

Currently, the only infringements in place that I'm aware of are:
1. Age. Must be 18, some states allow 17 year olds to vote in primaries/caucuses.
2. Criminal. Cannot be serving a sentence for felony conviction or be on probation (specifics vary by state).
3. Citizenship. Must be a US citizen, not just a permanent resident, to vote in federal election (I think... dunno if there are any exceptions to this).
4. Residency. If you are a US citizen, you must have established residency in one of the 50 states or DC to vote... you cannot have your primary residency somewhere else outside the country, even a US territory.
5. Mental competency. I'm not sure on this, but I believe for most states the law is quite fuzzy on whether someone can be disenfranchised based on their mental faculties. I think there are a handful of states that have added laws to the books protecting rights of the mentally disabled, but I think the others have some grey area. Not sure what the ADA has to say.

In short, voting rights are probably one of the least black and white parts of the Constitution. That is why we have had so much legislation on it throughout history, and that's why things like Voter ID laws fall in such a grey area. The have to explicitly violate a state law, the Constitution, or an Amendment to get struck down.

The Voter ID thing is really simple. Register to vote according to the above and a strict set of rules. Get your Voter ID per the rules set up in your state and in accordance with minimum federal laws. Voting for federal positions should be homogeneous across state lines. Take your ID card to the poll and cast your vote. The polls should be open in enough precincts for every one to cast a vote. Early voting and absentee ballots should be allowed but heavily scrutinized before approval.

Politicians who seek to close polling stations, increase wait times, or in general, make it more difficult for ANY PROPERLY REGISTERED VOTER to vote, are assholes.
 
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Polish Leppy 22

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I want to talk about the internet.

I'm going to ignore the fact for now that we have a virtual monopoly in telecom world and we need to break these companies up and get more competition for internet as well as cell phone service.
Obama appointed this guy Tom Wheeler to head the FCC and this guys is a total hack. Turns out he was a lobbyist for the telecom industry prior to being a lobbyist. Now he wants to end equal treatment of legal content on the internet. Basically what he is proposing to me is only a first step but one that could destroy free speech on the internet.

Right they are only talking about rich corporations being able to purchase a super highway in terms of speed. However what isn't taken into account is that search engines use sight speed as part of their criteria.

I also see a possibly down the road of ISPs offering consumers a limited internet access to certain sites in exchange for faster speeds.

We already got a broken corporate media, we got a broken campaign finance system partially thanks to the Supreme Court, so the internet is really all we got left in hopes of achieving the informed educated electorate Jefferson talked about.

I also think President Obama should fire this hack he pick to run the FCC after all he violates what Obama campaigned on. He won't which makes Obama a hack too!

Net Neutrality Will Be Saved Only If Citizens Raise an Outcry | The Nation

Oh really? And how do you propose we do that and stay within the bounds of the Constitution?
 

chicago51

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Oh really? And how do you propose we do that and stay within the bounds of the Constitution?

Our anti trust laws have been justified under the Commerce Clause which I think is overused and abused though not in this instance.

When companies are so large that they can easily crush competitors it is not a competitive market. In telecom market's case they have control of over all the communications infrastructure that at one time was partially tax payer funded so it almost impossible for new ISP, cable, and phone companies to get in the marketplace to begin with.

Isn't a freedom about citizens being able to have options and make choices? No?

We've been breaking up monopolies as recently as Nixon with AT&T in the 1970s.

Breaking up monopolies is nothing new for this country. In fact is only recently we stop doing it.
 
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C

Cackalacky

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Oh really? And how do you propose we do that and stay within the bounds of the Constitution?

It has been justified under the Commerce Clause which I think is overused and abused though not in this instance.

When companies are so large that they can easily crush competitors it is not a competitive market. In telecom market's case they have control of over all the communications infrastructure that at one time was partially tax payer funded so it almost impossible for new ISP, cable, and phone companies to get in the marketplace to begin with.

Isn't a freedom about citizens being able to have options and make choices? No?

We've been breaking up monopolies as recently as Nixon with AT&T in the 1970s.

Breaking up monopolies is nothing new for this country. In fact is only recently we stop doing it.
Sherman Anti-trust act 1890. There are standards which must be met, such as innocent versus coercive monopolies, as well as the definition of markets and such. But there is much precedent for breaking up monopolies that stifle competition in favor of so-called efficiency.
 

chicago51

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Back to net neutrality.

Isn't the internet kind of the great equalizer in terms of getting political information out or starting a business?

So if you get rid of net neutrality and the establishment can purchase a super fast track that average individuals just can't then doesn't that take away that equalizer.

So does that mean that competing with big business is going to be harder if you are a start up because your competition ISP service quality that is out of your reach, and they show up in the search engines and you don't?

What about the political process? If you have a grass roots candidate on the right or the left trying to beat out some corporate back established candidate. The internet is a communication equalizer to big money.

Lets face it the corporate news media is a bunch of corporate shills. So only corporatist on the right and left get mainstream media coverage.

Money today is considered free speech, so a grass roots candidate is not going to get the ad time.

So all a genuine candidate has left is the internet and by creating an elitist style internet that individual is going to be at a disadvantage online as well.

I think net neutrality is actually very important for trying to achieve a functional democracy again.
 
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GoIrish41

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Back to net neutrality.

Isn't the internet kind of the great equalizer in terms of getting political information out or starting a business?

So if you get rid of net neutrality and the establishment can purchase a super fast track that average individuals just can't then doesn't that take away that equalizer.

So does that mean that competing with big business is going to be harder if you are a start up because your competition ISP service quality that is out of your reach, and they show up in the search engines and you don't?

What about the political process. If you have a grass roots candidate on the right or the left trying to beat out some corporate back established candidate. The internet is a communication equalizer to big money.

Lets face the corporate news media is a bunch of corporate shills. So only corporatist on the right and left get mainstream media coverage.

Money today is considered free speech, so a grass roots candidate is not going to get the ad time.

So all a genuine candidate has left is the internet and by creating an elitist style internet that individual is going to be at a disadvantage online as well.

I think net neutrality is actually very important for trying to achieve a functional democracy again.

This. All of it. Good post.
 

chicago51

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Since we where talking about voting I figure I share this shit that Heritage and some these think tanks believe in. Probably the most influential guy in the whole Reagan Revolution talking right here:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8GBAsFwPglw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Make what you will of this.

As for net neutrality, Tom Wheeler, and the FCC. John Nichols in this case sums up how I feel on the matter fairly well in this interview.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/36cfgvC1EYE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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GoIrish41

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Since we where talking about voting I figure I share this shit that Heritage and some these think tanks believe in. Probably the most influential guy in the whole Reagan Revolution talking right here:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8GBAsFwPglw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

At least he acknowledges the truth of the matter. I'll give him credit for that. I think what he says is extraordinarily unAmerican, but at least he's honest about it. That isn't the case today, when many conervatives claim the reason they want to limit voting is to eliminate voter fraud, which doesn't exist in any significant way anywhere in the country. Hiding behind fake outrage of a nonexistent problem is what makes it difficult for the modern GOP to get a foothold in national elections. They are already starting from a baseline of intolerence and elitism (see above video) but lying about it to cover their tracks just makes it worse.
 
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