Politics

[MJ12666]

To answer your first question, yes I am aware about the average life expectancy when SS was established. I'm not sure what you're getting at with that nugget of information or how you think it rebuts anything I said. I am also aware that there was not and is not any sort of means testing for SS. Again, I'm not sure what you are getting at.

As far as how SS equates to an anti-poverty program for the elderly, read the following quote from FDR and pay particular attention to the bolded section.

"We can never insure one-hundred percent of the population against one-hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life. But we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age. This law, too, represents a cornerstone in a structure which is being built, but is by no means complete.... It is...a law that will take care of human needs and at the same time provide for the United States an economic structure of vastly greater soundness."
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt, August 14, 1935

The point I was attempting to make is that given that when SS was enacted individuals would begin to receive benefits at 62 and expect to only collect for three years before they would die, wouldn't the legislation have allowed a little more time between the beginning payment date and the date the of death if the purpose of the legislation is to ensure that the individual did not live old age in poverty?

 

[chicago51]

The point I was attempting to make is that given that when SS was enacted individuals would begin to receive benefits at 62 and expect to only collect for three years before they would die, wouldn't the legislation have allowed a little more time between the beginning payment date and the date the of death if the purpose of the legislation is to ensure that the individual did not live old age in poverty?

Understand even though the life expectancy was obviously lower in 1935 there was still a significant population living into there 70s. Poor (by today's standards) rates of infant mortality, and polio contributed to a large number of deaths at a young sometimes very young age which lowered average life expectancy calculations significantly.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I'm a relatively informed Catholic and I've never heard of this. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that this is news to me. Can you direct me to some sites/books/articles that can flesh out the intellectual history of this? Thanks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism

 

[Rack Em]

This entire thread, from its inception, has been poppycock

 

[Buster Bluth]

This entire thread, from its inception, has been poppycock

I think when you sift through the poppycock there is a surprising amount of good discussion. Stances on public policy should be formed through ferocious interaction with many different viewpoints. I try to act that way in here haha

 

[chicago51]

This age group is heavily affected by minimum wage laws too. Younger workers lack skills and cannot, generally speaking, produce goods or services worth $8 per hour.

Actually workers including minimum wage workers are more productive now than ever before. If the 1968 minimum wage had kept up with worker productivity the minimum wage would be 21.72.

I am not saying by any means we should raise the minimum wage to $20 an hour.

I think the increasing growth of an underclass of low wage workers is really one of the big challenges of our time both economically and morally. I don't by the inflation arguments as never in the history of the US minimum wage has an increase in the minimum wage been shown to be correlated with an increase in the rate of inflation. What I will acknowledge is that minimum wage increases effect on unemployment rate has been mixed. As it does make it less desirable to hire especially for a small business more so than say Walmart but minimum wage increases do increase consumer spending those creating more demand for goods and services. Never the less I am willing to acknowledge a minimum wage increase has mixed economic results.

However the minimum wage is not a living wage. So essentially we either subsidize minimum wage workers with food stamps, Children's Health Insurance, Medicaid, etc or have an underclass of people in this country that probably ends having to resort to criminal activity to survive.

Like said I increasing the minimum to a lift a full time minimum wage worker over the poverty level would have some economic drawbacks but it would decrease government spending on food stamps, Medicaid, etc as most of the population on those programs is low wage workers that actually go to work not lazy "moochers". As tax payers we subsidized Walmart, McDonalds, etc by our taxes paying for the programs that support there workers because they don't make enough money to live. I acknowledge it is a complicated issue but am curious how some posters think that not spending money a poverty safety net and while at the same time not increasing minimum wage won't lead a huge underclass in the population?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

And people also lose their retirements through no fault of their own. That's why we built a social security net.



Thankfully people who continued their education would know to add on "if they aren't reformed using the series of proposed solutions" onto the end of that.



What an excellent way to get a balanced view!

1) If SS is so popular, then make it optional.

2) Cute.

3) I get all my political info from RealClearPolitics - Opinion, News, Analysis, Videos and Polls, and it comes from every which angle on the spectrum. I've noted this on here before. Check it out. It just so happens my philosophy usually falls close in line with the gentlemen I noted above.

 

[Bluto]

Just curious. Have any of you all read any of Noam Chomsky's books? Frankly, I'm surprised he's not more popular among those who espouse libertarian beliefs.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Anyone see the similarities in the top 6 cities listed? Oddly enough, many Americans like to live in warm weather climates that are business friendly and offer a lower cost of living for people.

Penske Truck Rental’s 2013 Top Moving Destinations ListJanuary 22, 2014

Over the last four years, Penske Truck Rental has produced an annual list of its top moving destinations in the United States. Once again, the Atlanta metro area remained No. 1 for the fourth consecutive year.

In the list below, last year’s ranking is noted in parentheses. New to the 2013 list is Las Vegas, coming in at No. 10. Sarasota, Fla., No. 10 in 2012, was combined with the Tampa, Fla., metro area for this year’s list.

1.Atlanta (1)
2.Tampa, Fla./Sarasota, Fla. (new combined entry)
3.Dallas/Fort Worth (2)
4.Orlando, Fla. (4)
5.Phoenix (3)
6.Houston (6)
7.Seattle (8)
8.Chicago (5)
9.Denver (7)
10.Las Vegas (new!)

“We have seen a continued migration of Penske Truck Rental customers from the Northeast and Midwest parts of the U.S. into these areas,” said Don Mikes, Penske senior vice president of rental.

Penske Truck Rental, based in Reading, Pa., has created a series of infographics to complement the list. The main infographic can be seen below. The infographics include popular destination points within each of the markets, additional factoids, and average home listing prices with data courtesy of Trulia.com.

How is the Penske Truck Rental Top 10 Moving Destinations list created? It is procured through an analysis of our one-way consumer truck rental reservations made via PenskeTruckRental.com and through our central reservations call center, 1-800-GO-PENSKE, as well as reservation requests we’ve received for one-way moves.

Penske Truck Rental is a leading provider of consumer moving truck rentals and offers do-it-yourself movers discounts, ranging from AAA to military moves. Click here to view additional services and savings from our moving partners, too.

 

[phgreek]

Anyone see the similarities in the top 6 cities listed? Oddly enough, many Americans like to live in warm weather climates that are business friendly and offer a lower cost of living for people.

Penske Truck Rental’s 2013 Top Moving Destinations ListJanuary 22, 2014

Over the last four years, Penske Truck Rental has produced an annual list of its top moving destinations in the United States. Once again, the Atlanta metro area remained No. 1 for the fourth consecutive year.

In the list below, last year’s ranking is noted in parentheses. New to the 2013 list is Las Vegas, coming in at No. 10. Sarasota, Fla., No. 10 in 2012, was combined with the Tampa, Fla., metro area for this year’s list.

1.Atlanta (1)
2.Tampa, Fla./Sarasota, Fla. (new combined entry)
3.Dallas/Fort Worth (2)
4.Orlando, Fla. (4)
5.Phoenix (3)
6.Houston (6)
7.Seattle (8)
8.Chicago (5)
9.Denver (7)
10.Las Vegas (new!)

“We have seen a continued migration of Penske Truck Rental customers from the Northeast and Midwest parts of the U.S. into these areas,” said Don Mikes, Penske senior vice president of rental.

Penske Truck Rental, based in Reading, Pa., has created a series of infographics to complement the list. The main infographic can be seen below. The infographics include popular destination points within each of the markets, additional factoids, and average home listing prices with data courtesy of Trulia.com.

How is the Penske Truck Rental Top 10 Moving Destinations list created? It is procured through an analysis of our one-way consumer truck rental reservations made via PenskeTruckRental.com and through our central reservations call center, 1-800-GO-PENSKE, as well as reservation requests we’ve received for one-way moves.

Penske Truck Rental is a leading provider of consumer moving truck rentals and offers do-it-yourself movers discounts, ranging from AAA to military moves. Click here to view additional services and savings from our moving partners, too.

Where is NY...Hmmm. Might explain the begging and pleading, and tax holiday "bait" as of late...I honestly would love to do the NE thing...but I need a state Like PA or NJ to do the same beggar routine...fingers crossed...

 

[Buster Bluth]

Anyone see the similarities in the top 6 cities listed? Oddly enough, many Americans like to live in warm weather climates that are business friendly and offer a lower cost of living for people.

1.Atlanta (1)
2.Tampa, Fla./Sarasota, Fla. (new combined entry)
3.Dallas/Fort Worth (2)
4.Orlando, Fla. (4)
5.Phoenix (3)
6.Houston (6)
7.Seattle (8)
8.Chicago (5)
9.Denver (7)
10.Las Vegas (new!)

Atlanta - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Tampa - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Dallas - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Fort Worth - Republican mayor, Romney won the county
Orlando - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Phoenix - Democrat mayor, Romney won the county
Houston - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Seattle - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Chicago - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Denver - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Las Vegas - Independent mayor, Obama won the county

Try again.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Atlanta - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Tampa - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Dallas - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Fort Worth - Republican mayor, Romney won the county
Orlando - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Phoenix - Democrat mayor, Romney won the county
Houston - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Seattle - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Chicago - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Denver - Democrat mayor, Obama won the county
Las Vegas - Independent mayor, Obama won the county

Try again.

You're a clown. Look at the states. GA, FL, TX, AZ...those metro markets happen to be in business friendly, low cost of living states and all have Republican governors. Somehow the liberal utopias of NY, CA, and the entire northeast are nowhere to be found.

Kudos to Seattle and Chicago, both big Democratic cities in Democratic states. And we all know why Las Vegas got it...new porn capital of the world haha

 

[Buster Bluth]

1) If SS is so popular, then make it optional.

You must have missed it:

And you know that the wealthy and educated would opt out much more often than the poor, and the program would fall on its face.

What do you do with the millions of elderly now in poverty? Go.

2) Cute.

Nothing is cute about that or your stubbornness to at least consider that there are proposed reforms. It's a weird willful ignorance to say "No, not my job, but anyone who passed 4th grade math knows those three programs are done come 2030" and not add "UNLESS WE REFORM THE PROGRAM."

3) I get all my political info from RealClearPolitics - Opinion, News, Analysis, Videos and Polls, and it comes from every which angle on the spectrum. I've noted this on here before. Check it out. It just so happens my philosophy usually falls close in line with the gentlemen I noted above.

That's the problem.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Somehow the liberal utopias of NY, CA, and the entire northeast are nowhere to be found.

I like how you exclude Illinois from being a liberal utopia because it doesn't meet your bullshit parameters.

The "liberal utopias" of New York and California have four the America's ten largest cities. All of those cities grew. Hell New York City is booming, gaining 100,000 people per year.

Everyone is fleeing the tyranny of liberalism!! Ahhh!!!!

 

[GoIrish41]

You're a clown. Look at the states. GA, FL, TX, AZ...those metro markets happen to be in business friendly, low cost of living states and all have Republican governors. Somehow the liberal utopias of NY, CA, and the entire northeast are nowhere to be found.

Kudos to Seattle and Chicago, both big Democratic cities in Democratic states. And we all know why Las Vegas got it...new porn capital of the world haha

California has the 8th largest economy in the world -- yeah, that's compared to other nations. New York comes in at around #16. I think they are doing OK.

 

[Bluto]

I like how you exclude Illinois from being a liberal utopia because it doesn't meet your bullshit parameters.

The "liberal utopias" of New York and California have four the America's ten largest cities. All of those cities grew. Hell New York City is booming, gaining 100,000 people per year.

Everyone is fleeing the tyranny of liberalism!! Ahhh!!!!

This is funny. You should see the discussion revolving around the "techie invasion" of San Francisco. The amount of money that is pouring into the Bay Area in general right now is insane. Where I live in Northern Cali high end residential construction is off the charts and the company I'm working for is booked solid through September.

Now this influx of wealth presents its own set of unique problems but all this talk of California being a sinking ship so everyone should move to Waco or someplace is so off base it is laughable.

 

[Black Irish]

The point I was attempting to make is that given that when SS was enacted individuals would begin to receive benefits at 62 and expect to only collect for three years before they would die, wouldn't the legislation have allowed a little more time between the beginning payment date and the date the of death if the purpose of the legislation is to ensure that the individual did not live old age in poverty?

I can only speculate on behalf of the intentions of the framers of SS. I'm guessing that the actuarial tables favored the "start the benefits toward the average end of life." I'm guessing that the feds only planned on cutting checks to the elderly for around 5-7 years, as opposed to the 10-20 years that is more the norm now. If you extrapolate that logic out, the original intent of the creators of SS would be in line with current proposals from conservatives to up the eligibility age of SS recipients. Benefits were originally only intended for those 65 and older. Eligibility at age 62 has only been the case in the last 2 decades or so. However you cut it, SS was created as an anti-poverty program for the elderly. You can debate all day whether or not the eligibility age bar was set too high, but that doesn't change the nature of the program.

 

[ACamp1900]

This is funny. You should see the discussion revolving around the "techie invasion" of San Francisco. The amount of money that is pouring into the Bay Area in general right now is insane. Where I live in Northern Cali high end residential construction is off the charts and the company I'm working for is booked solid through September.

Now this influx of wealth presents its own set of unique problems but all this talk of California being a sinking ship so everyone should move to Waco or someplace is so off base it is laughable.

Come stay down here with me for a week... you won't be laughing quite as much.

 

[Bluto]

Come stay down here with me for a week... you won't be laughing quite as much.

Dude where do you live? Paramount?

I lived in the LA area for four years while going to grad school. I really liked it.

 

[ACamp1900]

I was actually going to ask if we could stay with you for, you know, just a couple of days or so...

 

[irishog77]

Come stay down here with me for a week... you won't be laughing quite as much.

Dude where do you live? Paramount?

I don't think ACamp really wants you to actually come and stay with him for a week.

 

[ACamp1900]

I saw Bluto's pic in the photo thread... I have a rule against long haired hippies in my house....

 

[Bluto]

I was actually going to ask if we could stay with you for, you know, just a couple of days or so...

Not being facetious, if you ever visit the Bay Area you would be more than welcome.

 

[irishog77]

I saw Bluto's pic in the photo thread... I have a rule against long haired hippies in my house....

Aaron and Bluto's love child:

 

[Bluto]

I saw Bluto's pic in the photo thread... I have a rule against long haired hippies in my house....

Lol. That's my brother. He's the furthest thing from a Hippie you're ever going to find. Exhibit A he's a Raiders Fan. Haha.

 

[Bluto]

I don't think ACamp really wants you to actually come and stay with him for a week.

Trust me if he lives in Paramount the visit would be fairly short lived and probably consist of drinking 40's, shooting dice and giving the ghetto bird the finger. Haha.

 

[ACamp1900]

Trust me if he lives in Paramount the visit would be fairly short lived and probably consist of drinking 40's, shooting dice and giving the ghetto bird the finger. Haha.

I don't live in Paramount, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head regardless.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Let me take a guess.

ACamp lives in the ghetto part of Santa Monica? Pico

 

[Bluto]

Aaron and Bluto's love child:

Man, now I'm going to have to post pics of me when I had pink, spiky hair and a leather bomber to dispel this hippie nonsense. Or just throw more fuel on the fire.

 

[potownhero]

Anyone see the similarities in the top 6 cities listed? Oddly enough, many Americans like to live in warm weather climates that are business friendly and offer a lower cost of living for people.

Penske Truck Rental’s 2013 Top Moving Destinations ListJanuary 22, 2014

Over the last four years, Penske Truck Rental has produced an annual list of its top moving destinations in the United States. Once again, the Atlanta metro area remained No. 1 for the fourth consecutive year.

In the list below, last year’s ranking is noted in parentheses. New to the 2013 list is Las Vegas, coming in at No. 10. Sarasota, Fla., No. 10 in 2012, was combined with the Tampa, Fla., metro area for this year’s list.

1.Atlanta (1)
2.Tampa, Fla./Sarasota, Fla. (new combined entry)
3.Dallas/Fort Worth (2)
4.Orlando, Fla. (4)
5.Phoenix (3)
6.Houston (6)
7.Seattle (8)
8.Chicago (5)
9.Denver (7)
10.Las Vegas (new!)

“We have seen a continued migration of Penske Truck Rental customers from the Northeast and Midwest parts of the U.S. into these areas,” said Don Mikes, Penske senior vice president of rental.

Penske Truck Rental, based in Reading, Pa., has created a series of infographics to complement the list. The main infographic can be seen below. The infographics include popular destination points within each of the markets, additional factoids, and average home listing prices with data courtesy of Trulia.com.

How is the Penske Truck Rental Top 10 Moving Destinations list created? It is procured through an analysis of our one-way consumer truck rental reservations made via PenskeTruckRental.com and through our central reservations call center, 1-800-GO-PENSKE, as well as reservation requests we’ve received for one-way moves.

Penske Truck Rental is a leading provider of consumer moving truck rentals and offers do-it-yourself movers discounts, ranging from AAA to military moves. Click here to view additional services and savings from our moving partners, too.

One thing that I noticed is that other than Denver, none of those cities have income taxes.

On a personal note, I moved from NYC to Miami a bit more than a year ago and love the absence of state and city income taxes.

I encourage all who can to do likewise.