Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

Black Irish

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"People will be a lot better off when they realize the government doesn't give a F*ck about them. All government is interested in is growing and expanding their own power." ---- George Carlin

The worst part is that the government isn't that great at using the power it already has. I wouldn't like it, but I could somewhat accept an all powerful government that runs like a Swiss watch. Our government runs more like a bicycle with a rusty chain and low tire pressure.
 

Irish Houstonian

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The worst part is that the government isn't that great at using the power it already has. I wouldn't like it, but I could somewhat accept an all powerful government that runs like a Swiss watch. Our government runs more like a bicycle with a rusty chain and low tire pressure.

Yup. And the real irony is that their own incompetence is always the basis to grab more power -- "if we just passed X, Y and Z law, everyone would have the American Dream and puppies would make a living wage again!!!"
 

Polish Leppy 22

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I've brought this up before. The foundation of family used to be the backbone of America and the central part of a child's life. Not so much anymore. Sad.

New Report: 48 Percent of First Children Born to Unwed MothersMarch 21, 2013

By Penny Starr

Patrick Fagan, senior fellow and director of the Marriage and Religion Research Institute at the Family Research Council, attended an event on Feb. 20, 2013 at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C., for the release of a new report on marriage. (CNSNews.com/Penny Starr)
(CNSNews.com) –

Calling it “The Great Crossover,” a report by academics and social activists shows that for the first time in history the median age of American women having babies is lower than the median age of marriage – 25.7 and 26.5, respectively.

These “dramatic changes in childbearing,” the report states, results in dramatic statistics about American children. Among them, 48 percent of first births are by unwed mothers, and by age 30 two-thirds of American women have had a child, typically out of wedlock.

Kay Hymowitz, an author of the report and a William E. Simon Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, said at an event to release the report on Wednesday at the Brookings Institution, that it reflects how the view of what marriage is about has changed.

This includes young adults who say marriage and children “are two separate things,” Hymowitz said.

The overall consensus of the report, with data in part gleaned from the U.S. Census Bureau is that Americans are postponing marriage to their late 20s and 30s, putting that separation in place.

“Culturally, young adults have increasingly come to see marriage as a ‘capstone’ rather than a ‘cornerstone’ – that is, something they do after they have all their ducks in a row, rather than a foundation for launching into adulthood and parenthood,” the report states.

The report cites two reasons – middle class American men having difficulty finding stable employment that allows them to support a family and “a less understood” reason about the disconnect between marriage and childbearing.

The report states that the “good news” of delayed marriage is that women can more easily have successful careers, and research shows that divorce rates are lower for later marriages.

The “troubling” new trend, the report states, is “The Great Crossover” where delayed marriage does not necessarily mean delayed motherhood.

The report, compiled by The National Marriage Project at University of Virginia, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy and The Relate Institute, also examines why the “private” decision to become a parent ahead of a marriage commitment – when done by such a large a portion of the population – has consequences for society at large.

“Researchers now view family instability as one of the greatest risks to children’s well being,” the report states. “Yet unmarried adults, including single 20-somethings who make up about half of unmarried parents, are by definition unsettled.

Further, the report states: “Most researchers agree that on average, whether because of instability or absent fathers or both, children of unmarried mothers have poorer outcomes than children growing up with their married parents.”

While a panel discussion on the report included some commentary on how religious beliefs have influenced the institution of marriage and Americans’ view of it, the report is void of any connection between morality and marriage trends and does not mention religion, churches or God.

Patrick Fagan, senior fellow and director of the Marriage and Religion Research Institute at the Family Research Council, told CNSNews.com that the prevailing social ethos in today’s culture that “anything goes” results in a disconnect between this kind of data and its moral implications.

“The social science data reflects the reality,” Fagan said. “So we have a contrast between the reality and the moral discourse about the reality.

“We can look at the numbers, but we can’t discuss the principles behind them,” Fagan said. “Even though they may be glaring at us, we cannot talk about them.”

The report concludes that “too many young adults are drifting unintentionally into parenthood before they have a plan or a partner who enable them to give their children the life and family they deserve,” but it stops sort of universal support for marriage.

“To be clear,” the final paragraph of the report states, “as noted above, we believe that marriage is not for everyone, be they 20-something or some other age.

“We recognize that not all parents can or should get married,” the report states, while adding that the “decoupling” of marriage and childbearing is “deeply worrisome.”

The solution? More government programs “to help 20-something men and women figure out new ways to put the baby carriage after marriage.”

Fagan disagrees.

“Government is incompetent in social policy,” Fagan said. “That is very clear.

“The competence lies within the family, within the church and within the school,” Fagan said. “They are the three people-forming institutions.”
 

Ndaccountant

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I've brought this up before. The foundation of family used to be the backbone of America and the central part of a child's life. Not so much anymore. Sad.

New Report: 48 Percent of First Children Born to Unwed MothersMarch 21, 2013

By Penny Starr

Patrick Fagan, senior fellow and director of the Marriage and Religion Research Institute at the Family Research Council, attended an event on Feb. 20, 2013 at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C., for the release of a new report on marriage. (CNSNews.com/Penny Starr)
(CNSNews.com) –

Calling it “The Great Crossover,” a report by academics and social activists shows that for the first time in history the median age of American women having babies is lower than the median age of marriage – 25.7 and 26.5, respectively.

These “dramatic changes in childbearing,” the report states, results in dramatic statistics about American children. Among them, 48 percent of first births are by unwed mothers, and by age 30 two-thirds of American women have had a child, typically out of wedlock.

Kay Hymowitz, an author of the report and a William E. Simon Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, said at an event to release the report on Wednesday at the Brookings Institution, that it reflects how the view of what marriage is about has changed.

This includes young adults who say marriage and children “are two separate things,” Hymowitz said.

The overall consensus of the report, with data in part gleaned from the U.S. Census Bureau is that Americans are postponing marriage to their late 20s and 30s, putting that separation in place.

“Culturally, young adults have increasingly come to see marriage as a ‘capstone’ rather than a ‘cornerstone’ – that is, something they do after they have all their ducks in a row, rather than a foundation for launching into adulthood and parenthood,” the report states.

The report cites two reasons – middle class American men having difficulty finding stable employment that allows them to support a family and “a less understood” reason about the disconnect between marriage and childbearing.

The report states that the “good news” of delayed marriage is that women can more easily have successful careers, and research shows that divorce rates are lower for later marriages.

The “troubling” new trend, the report states, is “The Great Crossover” where delayed marriage does not necessarily mean delayed motherhood.

The report, compiled by The National Marriage Project at University of Virginia, The National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy and The Relate Institute, also examines why the “private” decision to become a parent ahead of a marriage commitment – when done by such a large a portion of the population – has consequences for society at large.

“Researchers now view family instability as one of the greatest risks to children’s well being,” the report states. “Yet unmarried adults, including single 20-somethings who make up about half of unmarried parents, are by definition unsettled.

Further, the report states: “Most researchers agree that on average, whether because of instability or absent fathers or both, children of unmarried mothers have poorer outcomes than children growing up with their married parents.”

While a panel discussion on the report included some commentary on how religious beliefs have influenced the institution of marriage and Americans’ view of it, the report is void of any connection between morality and marriage trends and does not mention religion, churches or God.

Patrick Fagan, senior fellow and director of the Marriage and Religion Research Institute at the Family Research Council, told CNSNews.com that the prevailing social ethos in today’s culture that “anything goes” results in a disconnect between this kind of data and its moral implications.

“The social science data reflects the reality,” Fagan said. “So we have a contrast between the reality and the moral discourse about the reality.

“We can look at the numbers, but we can’t discuss the principles behind them,” Fagan said. “Even though they may be glaring at us, we cannot talk about them.”

The report concludes that “too many young adults are drifting unintentionally into parenthood before they have a plan or a partner who enable them to give their children the life and family they deserve,” but it stops sort of universal support for marriage.

“To be clear,” the final paragraph of the report states, “as noted above, we believe that marriage is not for everyone, be they 20-something or some other age.

“We recognize that not all parents can or should get married,” the report states, while adding that the “decoupling” of marriage and childbearing is “deeply worrisome.”

The solution? More government programs “to help 20-something men and women figure out new ways to put the baby carriage after marriage.”

Fagan disagrees.

“Government is incompetent in social policy,” Fagan said. “That is very clear.

“The competence lies within the family, within the church and within the school,” Fagan said. “They are the three people-forming institutions.”

Some other information:

Two fifths of single mother families are poor, triple the poverty rate for the rest of the
population. The majority of poor children are in single mother families. Child poverty is
linked to school dropout; to negative adult outcomes including joblessness and ill health; and to reduced economic output estimated to be about 4% of Gross Domestic Product according to the Center for American Progress.

72% of african american children grow up in a single parent family compared to 25% for the United States. Unfortunately, there is a big difference in race.
 

DSully1995

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Some other information:

Two fifths of single mother families are poor, triple the poverty rate for the rest of the
population. The majority of poor children are in single mother families. Child poverty is
linked to school dropout; to negative adult outcomes including joblessness and ill health; and to reduced economic output estimated to be about 4% of Gross Domestic Product according to the Center for American Progress.

72% of african american children grow up in a single parent family compared to 25% for the United States. Unfortunately, there is a big difference in race.

As much as pro life has good ideological grounds, this is why abortion should be legal imo, in reality you are most of the time dooming to lives to a cycle of poverty
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Here’s the quote from the Haskins:

“Young people can virtually assure that they and their families will avoid poverty if they follow three elementary rules for success — complete at least a high school education, work full time and wait until age 21 and get married before having a baby. Based on an analysis of Census data, people who followed all three of these rules had only a 2 percent chance of being in poverty and a 72 percent chance of joining the middle class (defined as above $55,000 in 2010).

These numbers were almost precisely reversed for people who violated all three rules, elevating their chance of being poor to 77 percent and reducing their chance of making the middle class to 4 percent.”


That’s it. Follow the above and you have a three-out-of-four chance of winning the game of life. Violate them, and the odds are severely stacked against you.

These findings should be embraced and encouraged. They offer tremendous hope to anyone less fortunate.

They reaffirm truths that helped make this country great. Namely, that the vast majority of individuals — without government aid or social programs — have within their grasp the ability to succeed and prosper.

Ron Haskins, Brookings Institute study from 2012
 

Irish Houstonian

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complete at least a high school education, work full time and wait until age 21 and get married before having a baby...people who followed all three of these rules had only a 2 percent chance of being in poverty and a 72 percent chance of joining the middle class (defined as above $55,000 in 2010).

Dude, Michael Jackson did exactly none of these things, and turned out pretty successful...

If I have to choose between working full time, or winning a Grammy, I'll take the Grammy.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Dude, Michael Jackson did exactly none of these things, and turned out pretty successful...

If I have to choose between working full time, or winning a Grammy, I'll take the Grammy.

I know!! Crazy life isn't it? Problem is the number of single mommies without daddies on the Maury Povich show vastly outnumber the Michael Jacksons of the world.
 

GoIrish41

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Abortion is legal. What else ya got?

I was agreeing with another post for the reasoning used for why it should be legal. I'm sorry if you couldn't fingure out that there is a whole lot of people who argue that it should not be legal. I'll try to explain to you what everyone else can understand next time.
 

ACamp1900

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As much as pro life has good ideological grounds, this is why abortion should be legal imo, in reality you are most of the time dooming to lives to a cycle of poverty


Wait, I dont even want to argue abortion as I am not hard lined one way or the other personally and it is far too messy for me...... so don't take it as that...

but your stance is poverty in the US is a fate worse than death?? Is that what is being said here?
 

Irish Houstonian

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Wait, I dont even want to argue abortion as I am not hard lined one way or the other personally and it is far too messy for me...... so don't take it as that...

but your stance is poverty in the US is a fate worse than death?? Is that what is being said here?

Clearly you've never ridden a Greyhound bus.
 

ACamp1900

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LOL... assume they meant otherwise, it just reads that way to me... and I would guess I grew up more impoverished than most here. I’m glad my parents didn’t think that way as there is always a way out.
 

DSully1995

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Wait, I dont even want to argue abortion as I am not hard lined one way or the other personally and it is far too messy for me...... so don't take it as that...

but your stance is poverty in the US is a fate worse than death?? Is that what is being said here?

No. its just unfair for a 16 year old girl without any real education to be expected to raise a child, especially if the father is absent, Family is crucial to child development and people should have children when they are prepared. But I agree im not adamant on it, its just a sad reality of todays world.
 

GoIrish41

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Wait, I dont even want to argue abortion as I am not hard lined one way or the other personally and it is far too messy for me...... so don't take it as that...

but your stance is poverty in the US is a fate worse than death?? Is that what is being said here?

I don't want to argue abortion either. I think what Sully was pointing out the ironic nature of the position of insisting that children be born only to become the very people that you seem to have so much distain for. It seems he was looking at the duality of the situation in a logical way. (Sully, if I mistated your point, forgive me. But, that is what I read and what I was agreeing with.)

I would add to Sully's remark (as I understood it, that is) that those who find abortion immoral are often the same people who seek to dismantle the social programs that keep these children from suffering a harsher existence than they already do. That, to me, seems immoral.

Your last paragraph suggests that you do want to talk about abortion. I only make the observation because you are taking a position that many people don't believe when you call abortion "death." I'm sure you are aware that many people don't believe the position that life begins at conception and since we have not talked about when in a pregnancy that the abortion takes place, you are either making an assumption or taking a position on the matter. Further, you seem to be suggesting that we believe abortion is a better fate than living in poverty. I'm pretty confident that isn't what Sully was saying and I know it is not what I'm saying. Neither of us were making moral positions on abortion.
 

ACamp1900

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Where do you get I have distain for 'people'??... I do feel at a certain point a lack of life equals death... beyond that i have no desire to discuss abortion... or read into posts and assume or paint with broad storkes as much as you did here... I only asked for clarification.
 
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GoIrish41

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Where do you get I have distain for 'people'??... I do feel at a certain point a lack of life equals death... beyond that i have no desire to discuss abortion... or read into posts and assume as much as you did here... I only asked for clarification.

One example of distain for people: The suggestion that 47% of the people are takers who won't ever take responsibility for themselves. Saying these people that others to provide them healthcare and food for them. That seems a bit distainful to me.

Also, the only reason I brought up the point of life that you believe equals death is a position on abortion, and the way you stated it was trying to put your position out there as a fact, when there are clearly people who don't agree with your postion. That seems to be provoking a discussion about abortion and not just asking for a clarification.
 

ACamp1900

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One example of distain for people: The suggestion that 47% of the people are takers who won't ever take responsibility for themselves. Saying these people that others to provide them healthcare and food for them. That seems a bit distainful to me.

Also, the only reason I brought up the point of life that you believe equals death is a position on abortion, and the way you stated it was trying to put your position out there as a fact, when there are clearly people who don't agree with your postion. That seems to be provoking a discussion about abortion and not just asking for a clarification.


I am sorry that i was not aware anyone who doesn't support Obama suddenly speaks in lockstep with completely misrepresented and misquoted words of Romney.... Painting in such strokes while misrepresenting so as to pass judgment on those you paint and misrepresent seems a bit disdainful by our own definition, no? Also, a thought on life has nothing to do with abortion... at all, for someone who pretends to think so much that shouldn't be difficult for you. Who keeps bringing this up again? Yet I want to discuss it…… got it. Let me help though, a lack of life is better than a life in poverty? Better?


;)
 

ACamp1900

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What percentage of the country wanted the health care bill to pass??
 

ACamp1900

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One example of distain for people: The suggestion that 47% of the people are takers who won't ever take responsibility for themselves. Saying these people that others to provide them healthcare and food for them. That seems a bit distainful to me.

Also, the only reason I brought up the point of life that you believe equals death is a position on abortion, and the way you stated it was trying to put your position out there as a fact, when there are clearly people who don't agree with your postion. That seems to be provoking a discussion about abortion and not just asking for a clarification.

You know what, I have always liked you GI 41, truly, forgive the snippy nature of my last post to you... It frustrated me how you seem to try to paint people while making seemingly illogical steps yourself...(in the last page you supported the idea that if a baby is born into poverty it will most likely fall into an endless cycle of poverty then almost immediately called those who think government programs intended to fight poverty aren't working 'immoral'... ) I asked for clarification on what was being stated on babies in poverty, Sully gave it and that was enough for me to move on... Hence the lack of further reply to his last post... And i honestly don't care about or have a strong stance on abortion... nyway

Enjoy your weekend man.
 

GoIrish41

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I am sorry that i was not aware anyone who doesn't support Obama suddenly speaks in lockstep with completely misrepresented and misquoted words of Romney.... Painting in such strokes while misrepresenting so as to pass judgment on those you paint and misrepresent seems a bit disdainful by our own definition, no? Also, a thought on life has nothing to do with abortion... at all, for someone who pretends to think so much that shouldn't be difficult for you. Who keeps bringing this up again? Yet I want to discuss it…… got it. Let me help though, a lack of life is better than a life in poverty? Better?


;)

He was caught on tape saying these things. Remember? How is that misrepresented and'or misquoted? You obviously don't believe those dispicable comments.:yes:

Actually, YOU keep bringing it up. You asked questions and I answered. I'm responding to YOU! You started this by responding to my post that said "This" and now you blame me for "bringing it up." Okey doke.

You go ahead and convince yourself that even thought we were having a discussion about abortion, that you talking about a generic thought on life. You were referring to abortion as "death."
 

RallySonsOfND

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No. its just unfair for a 16 year old girl without any real education to be expected to raise a child, especially if the father is absent, Family is crucial to child development and people should have children when they are prepared. But I agree im not adamant on it, its just a sad reality of todays world.

16 year old shouldn't be having sex anyways.
 

ACamp1900

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You go ahead and convince yourself that even thought we were having a discussion about abortion, that you talking about a generic thought on life. You were referring to abortion as "death."

I guess you missed the part where I said this isn't about abortion..... Anyhow.
 
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