Politics

[chicago51]

Sanders, Reid, DeFazio Introduce Legislation to Strengthen Social Security - Newsroom: Bernie Sanders - U.S. Senator for Vermont

 

[GoIrish41]

I have no idea what you're saying here.

Sorry, that was pretty incoherent.

I'm agreeing that there are white people who make $33k salaries, but I'm also pointing out that the $33k that we've been talking about is household income. I'm also saying that, comparatively speaking, white housholds who live on this salary are the exception to the rule and that black families living on this household income are the rule as this is the average of every black household in the country. Something I didn't say (or try to) in the last post was that my observation is that you said you wouldn't call the white guys who made $33k lazy, but didn't make the same assertion about blacks who make $33k. I'm not saying that means anything, but I found it a little funny.

 

[chicago51]

It's a shame you still look at our country like it's 1952 given how far we've come. Really is. Racism is like poverty: you're never going to have 0% of it, but you are off the ledge today with some of your posts.

What?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Sanders, Reid, DeFazio Introduce Legislation to Strengthen Social Security - Newsroom: Bernie Sanders - U.S. Senator for Vermont

Summary: MOAR TAXES

 

[chicago51]

Summary: MOAR TAXES

Because As Government Revenues Reach A 60-Year-Low, DeMint Claims They're At A 'Record' High | ThinkProgress

Revenue as of 2011 was at a 60 year low in terms of GDP. I assume everyone will ignore this just like many other facts.

If were spending too much I which someone would present the case.

If taxes on the rich kill jobs I wish someone would present the case.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...you said you wouldn't call the white guys who made $33k lazy, but didn't make the same assertion about blacks who make $33k. I'm not saying that means anything, but I found it a little funny.

I get that you're trying to make me look racist, but I said "I wouldn't necessarily call them lazy either". Meaning neither "group" is necessarily lazy.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I get that you're trying to make me look racist, but I said "I wouldn't necessarily call them lazy either". Meaning neither "group" is necessarily lazy.

Welcome to the jungle, we've got fun and games...

Ooops! I said the word jungle and we're talking about blakcs. That was racist and I probably offended someone.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I get that you're trying to make me look racist, but I said "I wouldn't necessarily call them lazy either". Meaning neither "group" is necessarily lazy.

For all the racism talk....

 

[GoIrish41]

It's a shame you still look at our country like it's 1952 given how far we've come. Really is. Racism is like poverty: you're never going to have 0% of it, but you are off the ledge today with some of your posts.

You saythat about my posts every day. lol

I think its a little sad that you think racism has all but vanished in this country since 1952.

You do know that in the last election there were lawsuits because blacks felt as though they were being blocked from voting in several states, right?

You know that the GOP in several swing states from the last election are trying to rig the rules to diminish the importance of black voters, right?

You understand that just last week the supreme court heard a case that was aimed at repealing article 5 of the voter rights act, that allows states to receive federal oversight because they tried to supress miniority voter rights in their states, right?

We've come a long way in this country, but there is a long way to go yet.

 

[GoIrish41]

I get that you're trying to make me look racist, but I said "I wouldn't necessarily call them lazy either". Meaning neither "group" is necessarily lazy.

The word "either" doesn't make it obvious that you were talking about anybody but the white people who your sentence was talking about. I'll take your word for it, but you didn't mention black people anywhere in that post. That's why I thought it was humourous.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I thought it was obvious, but next time I'll type slower.

 

[chicago51]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kEYoD5UdHqM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

According to Scalia voting is a racial entitlement.

Funny I thought voting was a constitutional right.

 

[GoIrish41]

I thought it was obvious, but next time I'll type slower.

You don't have to do that, just brush up on your grammar and sentence structure.

 

[chicago51]

I think it is crazy ironic that the guy leading the fight to kill Social Security and Medicare for that matter is the same guy that used Social Security to pay for college.

Daily Kos: Paul Ryan says 'you did build it.' Well, the government built Paul Ryan.

 

[RDU Irish]

I think it is crazy ironic that the guy leading the fight to kill Social Security and Medicare for that matter is the guy that used Social Security to pay for college.

Daily Kos: Paul Ryan says 'you did build it.' Well, the government built Paul Ryan.

Yep he wants to throw grandma over the cliff. Shesh. Hard to make progress when people like you demonize one of the few people trying to deal with core issues.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I think it is crazy ironic that the guy leading the fight to kill Social Security and Medicare for that matter is the same guy that used Social Security to pay for college.

Are there actual, specific numbers or data on this point, or is this just the DailyKos spitballin' it like normal?

 

[DSully1995]

Yep he wants to throw grandma over the cliff. Shesh. Hard to make progress when people like you demonize one of the few people trying to deal with core issues.

Well, Ryan is being a little judgemental of others. He says that governemt entitlements are making it too easy to just the the teet of gov. But as for Mr Ryan himself, when he depended on those programs, it pushed him to work harder, as if he was he only person uncorruptable by the ring of power, (just finish lotr so im in the mood)

 

[RDU Irish]

He grew up in a community very familiar with the siren's song of entitlement. He zigged while he was seeing pleny of others zag.

Just admit you are dishonest in saying he wants to kill the programs. None of his proposals end Social Security or Medicare.

 

[chicago51]

Are there actual, specific numbers or data on this point, or is this just the DailyKos spitballin' it like normal?

Paul Ryan on Social Security as a Teenager? | Alternet

Rep. Paul Ryan Received Social Security Benefits at 16, But Now Wants Cuts in the Program

Government Programs and Taxpayers Financed Paul Ryan: He Didn't Make It on His Own

Jon Stewart Slams Paul Ryan On Entitlements - Business Insider

How many various sites do you need?

 

[irishpat183]

100% agree.

"Gang recruitment is a powerful lure for the products of broken homes and single-parent households" as gang members are likely to "receive little guidance or attention from family members at home." (Chicago Crime Commission Report,1995)

There is a disproportionate number of black single-parent families. The lack of a functioning family unit and, by extension, a nurturing community is what drives the black youth to do things like this, which, unfortunately, is becoming too common in Chicago, where I live:

19 kids were arrested. Getting arrested is a good first step to a sh!tty future.

and I wonder why they don't get an opportunity....


You wonder why this type of stuff doesn't happen down here? That kid would be bleeding and twitching on the ground with a .45 round in his chest.

 

[irishpat183]

You say about my posts every day. lol

I think its a little sad that you think racism has all but vanished in this country since 1952.

You do know that in the last election there were lawsuits because blacks felt as though they were being blocked from voting in several states, right?

You know that the GOP in several swing states from the last election are trying to rig the rules to diminish the importance of black voters, right?

You understand that just last week the supreme court heard a case that was aimed at repealing article 5 of the voter rights act, that allows states to receive federal oversight because they tried to supress miniority voter rights in their states, right?

We've come a long way in this country, but there is a long way to go yet.

YOu're outta your mind. Simply because there were law suits doesn't mean it's true.

You do understand that there were black people that voted for Obama simply because he was black?

 

[chicago51]

He grew up in a community very familiar with the siren's song of entitlement. He zigged while he was seeing pleny of others zag.

Just admit you are dishonest in saying he wants to kill the programs. None of his proposals end Social Security or Medicare.

Medicare has some problems of solvency because health care cost have ballooned out of control. We do need to change it.

Social Security trust fund has a surpuls of over 2 trillion dollars. See Ronald Reagan was actually very smart in that he saw the incoming baby boomer generation. So doubled the fica tax to pay for it. Everyone is freeking out that we are going to have to start using the Social Security trust fund. In fact Reagan's people expected us to start using the surplus around this time. In fact the Social Security trust fund is supposed to run out and hit 0 right about the time that the boomers will start declining and then we won't have this imbalance of old people to working people to young people Social Security will start building up again.

People are looking at the government as one big pot. Social Security has been payed for by the fica tax and has not contribute to our debt, not $1.00.

 

[Irish YJ]

Are you implying that African Americans choose to live in households that make $33,460 instead of the $50,502 that all other races' households make? If this is what you are saying, then it would seem that either African Americans are predisposed to choosing to live in poverty or that you are agreeing with the age-old sterotype of Aferican Americans being lazy. I don't think that either of those things is true in any general sense, but if African Americans are not being discriminated against broadly I can think of no other conclusions to draw from your statement. Remember, those numbers came from a survey (the Census, I believe, and someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong) with a sampeling the size of all adults in the United States.

I respect what you and your family did to make your way in the world, but I think you are attaching your circumstances onto everyone else. As hard as you think it was to get where you got, I would suggest that it is much, much more difficult for a black teenager growing up in the inner city, even if all the other factors that teenager was facing were identical to your own. You seem like a guy open minded enough to appreciate that may be a possibility.

I am not implying anything whatsoever about race. I'm refering to choice whatever color you happen to be. I did not choose to grow up poor myself. And I'm not going to bite on your racist discord. I have white friends that have, and continue to make bad choices. I also have many non-white friends that do to. I also have many non-white friends that make great choices. My x-GF of 4 years is not white, 2 of my 5 best friends are not white. They are all subject to inequalities (I don't doubt there is still racism). If you even come close to imply that I'm racist, I can provide more detail that will make any assertion like that look quite foolish. PM me, and I'm happy to give you as much detail as you want.

That said, let me take my X for instance. Born into a poor family. Her mother had 3 children from 3 different men. Her mother was irresponsible. Her two siblings made poor choices, didn't care about education, and are leaches to both my X, and the government. Her brother ended spending time in jail for a few years because of poor choices. My X took it upon herself to put herself through college, and got a good job at the same company I started out with. To this day, we are still close. While I agree there is racism, her two siblings and mother's failures had nothing to do with racism. They had to do with poor choices. Both her mother and her sister live in houses we (yes, her and I) purchased for rental property. She has a very good business head on her.... She took over the houses because she wanted to rent to them (her family). Now her mother does not pay anything (fully capable of working), and her sister pays just enough to cover the mortgage (not taxes, up care, etc.). To this day she regrets letting them move in, and wishes she would have taken my advice. So tell me, why did she succeed, and her siblings fail. All 3 had the same opportunity, the same poor environment. The differnce is, she chose to take control of her life, and made good choices. Harder for non-whites, I'll give you that, but certainly attainable so long as you choose to attain. And she will be the first person to tell you that.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Medicare has some problems of solvency because health care cost have ballooned out of control. We do need to change it.

Social Security trust fund has a surpuls of over 2 trillion dollars. See Ronald Reagan was actually very smart in that he saw the incoming baby boomer generation. So doubled the fica tax to pay for it. Everyone is freeking out that we are going to have to start using the Social Security trust fund. In fact Reagan's people expected us to start using the surplus around this time. In fact the Social Security trust fund is supposed to run out and hit 0 right about the time that the boomers will start declining and then we won't have this imbalance of old people to working people to young people Social Security will start building up again.

People are looking at the government as one big pot. Social Security has been payed for by the fica tax and has not contribute to our debt, not $1.00.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/24/us/politics/financial-outlook-dims-for-social-security.html?_r=0

If you are too focused on the short term, the long term creeps up on you VERY quickly. We have a massive tsunami in the future for Social Seurity and Medicare, even after planning on not passing the "doc fix". If you don't get ahead of it, you will be swallowed alive. Additionally, it allows you to make gradual changes that makes a big savings down the road. Think of it like personal investing, you get way more bang for your buck saving at 25 for retiring at 60 than what you do starting to save when you are 50.

 

[Golden_Domer]

I think it is crazy ironic that the guy leading the fight to kill Social Security and Medicare for that matter is the same guy that used Social Security to pay for college.

Daily Kos: Paul Ryan says 'you did build it.' Well, the government built Paul Ryan.

Paul Ryan on Social Security as a Teenager? | Alternet

Rep. Paul Ryan Received Social Security Benefits at 16, But Now Wants Cuts in the Program

Government Programs and Taxpayers Financed Paul Ryan: He Didn't Make It on His Own

Jon Stewart Slams Paul Ryan On Entitlements - Business Insider

How many various sites do you need?

Paul Ryan never said he wanted to do away with SS, he believes that it is unsustainable in its current form. He never hid the fact that he received SS survivor's benefits. He openly stated that he and his family needed help and benefited from the SS safety net. What you're implying is that, because he received SS survivor's benefits as a teenager almost 30 years ago, he is not allowed to implement ideas to help sustain it. Sorry, I don't see the irony.

 

[GoIrish41]

YOu're outta your mind. Simply because there were law suits doesn't mean it's true.

You do understand that there were black people that voted for Obama simply because he was black?

Understand the Supreme Court's role in this. Lawsuits were brought against article 5 of the voting rights act by states who are being watched because of past practices of voter irregularity having to do with race by people in those states. Heck, they don't think they deserve such attention. It wasn't blacks who brought this suit, it was people who are members of states who tried to supress black voting. That means, the offenders are arguing that they shouldn't be watched closer, even though they were guilty of the crime. Now if I'm not mistaken, in ANY other circumstance you would be going insane if this was happening to say, a rapist, a murderer, a theif. The Supreme Court is hearing the case, which means that the worst offenders of a crime will be free to do whatever they want if the law is changed. It doesn't even matter that it was a court case -- this is an altogether different animal. This could change a law that was designed to keep states from cheating in elections.

No doubt there were a lot of people who voted for Obama because he was black, but trust me when I say this ... there were probably just as many who voted for Romney because he wasn't. Obama is the Jackie Robinson of presidential politics. He is breaking new ground and he is suffering unprecidented indignities just like Robinson did when he broke the color line in MLB -- the questioning of his citizenship, challenging of his religion, and congressional obstruction like has never been seen before. On more than one occassion I've heard prominent GOP members on TV calling him "lazy." You can hardly question people who have observed this and come to the conclusion that your party has a problem with race. Heck, just look at the last election. Romney got like 1% of the black vote, 20 percent of the Hispanic vote, and 30 percent of the Asian vote. Clearly, folks from races other than "white" believe that something is up.

 

[Irish YJ]

GoIrish41 - what's your take on my example above. Nature vs Nurture, entitlement vs I will not fail and take what's mine,,,,, interested in your thoughts specifically on the example.

And if you agree people of all races capable of making both good and bad choices, why does it become society's burden when they make bad ones. And why does it become it become the responsibility of the people making good choices to bear the financial burden.

 

[chicago51]

Paul Ryan never said he wanted to do away with SS, he believes that it is unsustainable in its current form. He never hid the fact that he received SS survivor's benefits. He openly stated that he and his family needed help and benefited from the SS safety net. What you're implying is that, because he received SS survivor's benefits as a teenager almost 30 years ago, he is not allowed to implement ideas to help sustain it. Sorry, I don't see the irony.

When looking at the deficit though wouldn't you want want to address what is currently driving the deficit no for something that is going to be a problem in the late 2020s?

Especially since we are in a recession? Seniors on SS do buy things.

When the SS trust fund does run out we may go into a Social Security deficit for a short period of time. The boomers are going to die at some point and Social Security is going to be in a surplus again.

As a hopeful physical therapist they told us the 2020s are going to be a boom for PTs but there could be some job shortages in the mid 2030s before stabilizing around 2040.

 

[Ndaccountant]

When looking at the deficit though wouldn't you want want to address what is currently driving the deficit no for something that is going to be a problem in the late 2020s?

Especially since we are in a recession? Seniors on SS do buy things.

When the SS trust fund does run out we may go into a Social Security deficit for a short period of time. The boomers are going to die at some point and Social Security is going to be in a surplus again.

As a hopeful physical therapist they told us the 2020s are going to be a boom for PTs but there could be some job shortages in the mid 2030s before stabilizing around 2040.

It's not that it will be a problem, it's that it will be an irreversible problem. Like I said in my post above, think of it like personal investing, you get way more bang for your buck saving at 25 for retiring at 60 than what you do starting to save when you are 50.

 

[GoIrish41]

GoIrish41 - what's your take on my example above. Nature vs Nurture, entitlement vs I will not fail and take what's mine,,,,, interested in your thoughts specifically on the example.

And if you agree people of all races capable of making both good and bad choices, why does it become society's burden when they make bad ones. And why does it become it become the responsibility of the people making good choices to bear the financial burden.

I think there a lot of different kinds of people in the world.

The Steve Jobs types are going to succeed no matter what. They could start life buried in a pile of sh*t and they are going to make it to the top no matter what.

The overachiever type are not necessarily a shoe-in for success, they are certainly predisposed to it. They want to be the Steve Jobs type and will spend their lives striving to be. They will be successful in life because they will be workaholics. Succeeding is very important to them and if they can do it without any help, their success is all the sweeter. I suspect this is where you would fall after reading your biographical posts a while back.

The average Joes make up the vast majority of folks, in my view. These folks make up the great middle class. They are not afraid of hard work, but they value their free time as well. Family is more important to these folks than the types above, maybe because they know they don't have a shot at being an overachiever and being Steve Jobs is an absolute pipe dream.

The slackers may have all kinds of potential, but they are just not interested in the heavy lifting that could convert that potential to anything like real success. We all know folks like these -- the ones who borrow money from their family members and never pay it back. More interested in living the lifestyle of the middle class, or better yet the overachievers, than thinking about the possibility of working toward it. These are the people in your life that at some time or another are going to ask to sleep on your couch. They are characterized by the bad decisions they make trying to live a lifestyle they didn't earn.

The snakebit are those who may have potential but good old fashioned bad luck seems to get in the way more often than not. This is the guy who decided in 2007 to fulfill a lifelong dream and open up a diner on main street, only to have his dreams dashed on the financial rocks by the recession in 08. They are willing to work hard, and if life was fair, they would be upper middle class or even overachievers, but they learn that life is just not fair ... not for them anyway.

The doomed are those who are born at the bottom of a dry well and no matter how hard they try they are unlikely to dig their way out. They will work hard and want very much to support their families. They don't want to take help or handouts and are truly embarassed that they have to. They are defeated. They may be able to do better financially if they don't work and collect welfare, but they are too proud for that. Eternal optimists, they are certain that if they continue to work hard they will get out of that hole. A few make it. Sounds like your parents might have been those exceptional few who do. But, must don't so they go through life and put up with a lot of insults despite their hard work. I think this is the vast majority of the poor in this country.

The societal drains. These people started out in the same well as the doomed but they are content to wait for everyone else to throw support down to them. They couldn't be bothered to try to scratch and dig like the proud doomed do. These are the folks who I think you describe when you talk about bad choices and being entitled. I don't disagree with that, but I think I would disagree with you about how many of social drains there are. I think there are relatively few -- maybe 2 or 3 pecent, maybe less. It is unfortunate that you cannot get to the doomed with much needed and much deserved help without having to take care of these folks too.

People can always make choices. That is part of the equasion. But, another part is opportunity. The degree to which the doomed work every bit as hard as the overachievers, but their footing in the beginning of the race makes all the difference.

Sorry for the long-winded reply, but it really isn't a simple question to answer in my view.