Politics

[chicago51]

American education cost has also skyrocketed since the Reagan presidency. Notice again right around 1980 college cost started to rise faster than inflation.

 

[Downinthebend]

Oh, I have a chart about education I'd like to post. Charts are fun.

 

[Ndaccountant]

American education cost has also skyrocketed since the Reagan presidency. Notice again right around 1980 college cost started to rise faster than inflation.

So, what did Reagan do to cause this, since that is what your posts hints at?

 

[chicago51]

Oh, I have a chart about education I'd like to post. Charts are fun.

I think everyone would agree education in America is not very efficent.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

American education cost has also skyrocketed since the Reagan presidency. Notice again right around 1980 college cost started to rise faster than inflation.

Reagan had nothing at all to do with the cost of college tuition. Obama doesn't either. But using your logic, can you please post a chart showing the national average of gas in 2008/2009 compared to where it is now?

 

[chicago51]

I think this is pretty much the same debate we have all been having on this thread.

At about 4:40-5:20 the caller presents a scenario of who to give 50 grand too a homeless guy or a billonaire. For the country to get its best return economical who would you give it to? That is pretty much what this great debate is about.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/670iZS9bn8I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

By the way PL 22 I'll work on getting some for gas prices. I am not exactly sure of all the factors for gas prices. I am sure a great deal is the basic supply and demand concept. I know we are actually doing well with domestic oil production and in getting better fuel economy out of our cars. So I am interested to see what other factors are involved and if policy would in fact make a difference.

One thing about the price in 2008/2009 is that demand was down due to the financial crisis. Less people working means less people driving. Less demand at stores means less delivery trucks. So in a way anything that may have been done to help the economy may have hurt gasoline prices.

 

[chicago51]

So Mississippi finally ratified the 13th amendment to end slavery today. Apparently they never submitted the federal government lol.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

This thread is too much for me. I am the most uninformed American there is when it comes to this stuff. Have NEVER voted in a presidential election (never had jury duty though because of it), and NEVER watch the news, read newspapers, etc. Every time I try to get involved, my head starts to spin.

The only political opinion I have is this: people with real life experience (fighting in wars, etc.) have words that carry more weight than some kid who read a book in college. Just my 0.02.

*Damn you offseason for making this the only active thread!

 

[Buster Bluth]

The only political opinion I have is this: people with real life experience (fighting in wars, etc.) have words that carry more weight than some kid who read a book in college. Just my 0.02.

Oh please.

 

[Buster Bluth]

So, what did Reagan do to cause this, since that is what your posts hints at?

We're waiting chicago...

 

[irishff1014]

This thread is too much for me. I am the most uninformed American there is when it comes to this stuff. Have NEVER voted in a presidential election (never had jury duty though because of it), and NEVER watch the news, read newspapers, etc. Every time I try to get involved, my head starts to spin.

The only political opinion I have is this: people with real life experience (fighting in wars, etc.) have words that carry more weight than some kid who read a book in college. Just my 0.02.

*Damn you offseason for making this the only active thread!

Maryland does it through Motor Vehicle administration now.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Oh please.

Just my opinion. That wasn't directed towards you. It irks me when an older working class guy states how he feels about something and some hotshot tells him a hundred different ways why he's "wrong."

I have a married in family member (jerkoff, know it all, never had a job until after college) who does this every year during the holidays, and it drives everyone nuts. I just stay out of it and get really drunk since I have no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Just my opinion. That wasn't directed towards you. It irks me when an older working class guy states how he feels about something and some hotshot tells him a hundred different ways why he's "wrong."

I have a married in family member (jerkoff, know it all, never had a job until after college) who does this every year during the holidays, and it drives everyone nuts. I just stay out of it and get really drunk since I have no idea what he's talking about.

I don't even know what to say to this. I mean, is it possible you're, well, actually wrong? You just told me "I have no idea what he's talking about," and yet it irks you? I'm honestly confused. What does said hotshot do and what were the opinions? The village elder isn't inherently correct just because he's seen the most moons, we got past that point a while back.

I think this is pretty much the same debate we have all been having on this thread.

At about 4:40-5:20 the caller presents a scenario of who to give 50 grand too a homeless guy or a billonaire. For the country to get its best return economical who would you give it to? That is pretty much what this great debate is about.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/670iZS9bn8I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't see that debate at all, to be honest. That caller was a lunatic and his metaphor was beyond stupid.

By the way PL 22 I'll work on getting some for gas prices. I am not exactly sure of all the factors for gas prices. I am sure a great deal is the basic supply and demand concept. I know we are actually doing well with domestic oil production and in getting better fuel economy out of our cars. So I am interested to see what other factors are involved and if policy would in fact make a difference.

As India and China develop, demand will boom and the price will skyrocket. The hope is that when the price goes up, the ability of oil companies to get more expensive oil out of the ground (i.e. oil sands, etc) increases. You can't produce oil sands oil at $35/gal, but you can at $135/gal. That will help. The "cheap" oil is gone though.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

So Mississippi finally ratified the 13th amendment to end slavery today. Apparently they never submitted the federal government lol.

I saw that. Better late than never I guess. Came about because of some guy who went to see the movie Lincoln. Crazy.

 

[ND NYC]

Taxes: What people forget about Reagan - Sep. 8, 2010

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I think you're missing the point Buster. It's not about being "right," and "wrong," its about having tact and not being a complete douchebag. This guy is certainly a grade-a db, offering unsolicited criticism to people simply saying how they feel. These people listen and talk, this guy just talks.....

 

[Buster Bluth]

That's fair enough.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I think this is pretty much the same debate we have all been having on this thread.

At about 4:40-5:20 the caller presents a scenario of who to give 50 grand too a homeless guy or a billonaire. For the country to get its best return economical who would you give it to? That is pretty much what this great debate is about.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/670iZS9bn8I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

By the way PL 22 I'll work on getting some for gas prices. I am not exactly sure of all the factors for gas prices. I am sure a great deal is the basic supply and demand concept. I know we are actually doing well with domestic oil production and in getting better fuel economy out of our cars. So I am interested to see what other factors are involved and if policy would in fact make a difference.

One thing about the price in 2008/2009 is that demand was down due to the financial crisis. Less people working means less people driving. Less demand at stores means less delivery trucks. So in a way anything that may have been done to help the economy may have hurt gasoline prices.

I can guarantee you the national average when Obama took office was not $3.50. Hell, it wasn't $2.50.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I am a dreamer, but both parties should embrace this. We can't solve this with taxes only and spending reductions only. We have dug ourselves way too deep. I doubt either side will embrace this tho in a serious manner. Each side will point to how the other side isn't realistic. Damn shame.

Report: New Alan Simpson-Erskine Bowles plan - Kevin Robillard - POLITICO.com

 

[GoIrish41]

I am a dreamer, but both parties should embrace this. We can't solve this with taxes only and spending reductions only. We have dug ourselves way too deep. I doubt either side will embrace this tho in a serious manner. Each side will point to how the other side isn't realistic. Damn shame.

Report: New Alan Simpson-Erskine Bowles plan - Kevin Robillard - POLITICO.com

agreed, but I don't understand why there is no military spending in the plan. it is unwise to cut the way the sequester will force us to cut, but there is definately room to cut the military over time.

 

[Ndaccountant]

agreed, but I don't understand why there is no military spending in the plan. it is unwise to cut the way the sequester will force us to cut, but there is definately room to cut the military over time.

IIRC, it was in the previous plan. Maybe they assume the sequester or other cuts are enacted as planned?

 

[Bluto]

Watched that new documentary FrackNation. I liked it.

On a side note I also read a couple op eds from conservative news sources and commentators. They seem to love the film and the fact that it "relies on the science" behind fracking. I found that to be quite ironic.

 

[chicago51]

So, what did Reagan do to cause this, since that is what your posts hints at?

We're waiting chicago...

Wow I guess I'm popular.

Ronald Reagan's Educational Legacy

As president he cut education funding in half.

He often spoke out against colleges saying the were basically the breeding grounds for communism idea (not this had anything to with tuition).

As governor he eliminated free public college in California. UC and other Cal schools were free prior to Reagan. Reagan being a popular figure led other states to do this.

People forget we used to have free college throughout the United States. Rather it was Virginia which Jefferson established or land grant colleges Lincoln established. Over time all this universities went from free to tuition based. This not all Reagan but we was certainly as big of a part in in as anyone.

Although this does not have to do with the cost of college itself his economic policies of doubling the payroll tax on working families, slashing the wealthy tax cuts, pulling investment money out the economy, and not enforcing the Sherman Anti Trust Act hurt the middle class making college more of burden.

By the way it is about time we had any president start enforcing the Sherman Anti Trust again. President Obama I am looking at you. Maybe in 2024 or something we will have president Elizabeth Warren. We need get tough on the banks.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Wow I guess I'm popular.

Ronald Reagan's Educational Legacy

As president he cut education funding in half.

He often spoke out against colleges saying the were basically the breeding grounds for communism idea (not this had anything to with tuition).

As governor he eliminated free public college in California. UC and other Cal schools were free prior to Reagan. Reagan being a popular figure led other states to do this.

People forget we used to have free college throughout the United States. Rather it was Virginia which Jefferson established or land grant colleges Lincoln established. Over time all this universities went from free to tuition based. This not all Reagan but we was certainly as big of a part in in as anyone.

Although this does not have to do with the cost of college itself his economic policies of doubling the payroll tax on working families, slashing the wealthy tax cuts, pulling investment money out the economy, and not enforcing the Sherman Anti Trust Act hurt the middle class making college more of burden.

By the way it is about time we had any president start enforcing the Sherman Anti Trust again. President Obama I am looking at you. Maybe in 2024 or something we will have president Elizabeth Warren. We need get tough on the banks.

Andrew Ferguson wrote a book about this a little while back ( I think it was named Crazy U: One Dad’s Crash Course in Getting His Kid Into College. In it, he pinpointed when tuition rates detached from inflation. The starting point? 1975. Around 1975, costs detached themselves from the rest of the economy and angled sharply skyward. Annual increases of 5 and 6 percent above inflation have been common ever since.

Additionally, when college attendance took off, federal grants failed to keep up. Take for example BEOG (documented in the article below). Viewed in 1997 constant dollars,
in 1975, the maximum BEOG grant was $4,000; in 1997, it was $2,700. Private institutions have had to make up the difference in the form of institutional financial aid, putting more pressure on tuition.

Please read this article. It puts a great deat of blame on things like governance, society norms, Federal Gov't programs, External Actors and so on. Well worth the read.

http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

 

[chicago51]

I am a dreamer, but both parties should embrace this. We can't solve this with taxes only and spending reductions only. We have dug ourselves way too deep. I doubt either side will embrace this tho in a serious manner. Each side will point to how the other side isn't realistic. Damn shame.

Report: New Alan Simpson-Erskine Bowles plan - Kevin Robillard - POLITICO.com

It is not the worst thing I have seen.

Although Simpson is a rather conservative democrat and Bowles is a republican so this leans right.

I think the White House could probably push Medicare savings to $500 billion. They want $400 billion and S&B calls $600 billion so split the difference.

I don't necessarily feel great that of the 4.4-4.8 trillion of decifit reduction (going back to 2010) only 1.2-1.3 trillion would actually be from tax revenue. So basically only 25% is from wealthy and the middle class is balancing the rest of it. Obama is looking for more 50/50. Someone like me would go even farther than that.

I also don't know why there are 0 defense cuts with a 1.2 trillion more in domestic discretionary cuts. I think though we have to be careful to not cut too much too fast. Get the unemployment down a bit more before we make more domestic cuts. We need to cut when the economy is doing well but not now.

Of course as I have said many times on this form. We don't have economic problem. I've already said I would spend more and try to get it back later through economic growth. I know this is not really on the table so I am hoping to get a 50/50 line which is what the president proposed.

 

[chicago51]

Andrew Ferguson wrote a book about this a little while back ( I think it was named Crazy U: One Dad’s Crash Course in Getting His Kid Into College. In it, he pinpointed when tuition rates detached from inflation. The starting point? 1975. Around 1975, costs detached themselves from the rest of the economy and angled sharply skyward. Annual increases of 5 and 6 percent above inflation have been common ever since.

Additionally, when college attendance took off, federal grants failed to keep up. Take for example BEOG (documented in the article below). Viewed in 1997 constant dollars,
in 1975, the maximum BEOG grant was $4,000; in 1997, it was $2,700. Private institutions have had to make up the difference in the form of institutional financial aid, putting more pressure on tuition.

Please read this article. It puts a great deat of blame on things like governance, society norms, Federal Gov't programs, External Actors and so on. Well worth the read.

http://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0005s.pdf

I skimmed through it. I give it a read when I get a chance. It does rasie some interesting points.

 

[chicago51]

Remember Howard Dean the guy who's weird laughing screaming gaff in the Democratic primaries essential gave what was expected to be a close primary race to John Kerry?

Well anyway Howard Dean actually wants the sequester.

Howard Dean On Sequester: 'Let It Happen'

I personally don't want the sequester with this fagile economy but at least one democrat apparently does.

 

[chicago51]

Yea the sequester is all Obama's fault

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_paKxXLsenA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NYzjMs-6MAE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yea okay Obama deserves blaim he did sign it but so do the House and Senate republicans because this thing passed with a less 50% approval from democrats. Calling this thing the "Obama sequester" is one party simply trying to miss lead Americans.

Boehner and Paul Ryan seemed happy at the time they got the sequester.

 

[chicago51]

From today:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2T5gGSVdbfk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Irish Houstonian]

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