Politics

[In Lou I Trust]

I get that racism isn't the reason why people don't want to vote for Obama but at the same time if blacks were made equal when they were freed then what was the whole point of the Civil Rights Movement?

Once again I get racism isn't the prime motivating force behind some white people not voting for Obama, but this urge to make it seem like racism is soooo far back in the past that it is now irrelevant is a thing that gets some non-white people (read:me) take a little longer to accept people's arguments against Obama at face value.

I wasn't saying that the end of slavery made everyone equal but I can see how it came off that way and for that I apologize. As for racism being a motivating factor for some to not vote for Obama, I completely agree. However, do you think it's fair to say that some blacks are voting for Obama solely on his skin color? Racism goes both ways.

 

[pkt77242]

I wasn't saying that the end of slavery made everyone equal but I can see how it came off that way and for that I apologize. As for racism being a motivating factor for some to not vote for Obama, I completely agree. However, do you think it's fair to say that some blacks are voting for Obama solely on his skin color? Racism goes both ways.

I don't think anyone would disagree that racism goes both ways but if you are honest with yourself you would admit that one way of the directions has been extremely detrimental to the other side and the other hasn't. Yes some African Americans voted for Obama because of his skin color, there is no argueing that but the vitriol and hatred from the right from Obama's first day has been crazy. That is what we are arguing about. Why does the right hate him so much? and since his first day in office? Also the really funny part is watching Republicans say they disagree with Obama on issue X and then Jon Stewart pulls a video from a couple of years ago of that politician agreeing with his position on issue X. I love it. The right has said since day 1 that their number one priority is to make Obama a 1 term President. That is a problem to me. Their number one priority should have been to help fix the ****ing economy.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

If anybody is voting for romney look at what a hypocrite is taxes stay the same for the rich but in theory taxes are raised on the middle class just look at this video and gain some knowledge about what romney is really all about and by the way this is done by chris wallace who works for fox news which is a right leaning media group

Gillespie Called Out By Wallace For Romney's Impossible Tax Math, Lack of Details - YouTube

First off, Chris Wallace is a registered Democrat so let's throw party affiliation out the window. As for that interview, he was asking for details about his tax plan; details that the Romney campaign has been vague about at best. I understand that it's difficult to believe in a tax plan that has been kept under wraps but let's be honest... even if you knew all the details would you truly understand how it would affect you? I'm not saying that you're stupid but I know that I, myself, wouldn't fully understand it. I'm not an accountant and am only vaguely familiar with tax deductions and loopholes. I believe Obama has failed us as a President and that Romney has proven himself to be a worthy replacement. Though, in all honestly, I'd love to see Gary Johnson win it all!

 

[PraetorianND]

Wrong on literally every point. We have our smartest and most temperamentally sound President of our lifetime, and you people continue to tell yourselves whatever you need to justify your delusional anger that you can't explain. Definitely not insecurity or racism, though. Honestly, these eight "points" are so utterly detached from reality it's as disconcerting as it is infuriating. If you want to hand the country back to greedy a-holes that wouldn't pee on you if you were on fire so as to make sure that a black man doesn't inhabit the White House, thats your prerogative. Tragically, your vote is worth the same as people who are capable of thinking. We get what we deserve. I'm still holding out hope that there enough people out here to save you from your own ignorance and stupidity.

You forget to mention consistent.

Also, in terms of foreign policy he has drastically improved our image internationally. I lived in Europe during this presidency and everyone over there was so thankful that Bush was out office. Obama has created a ton of trust between the U.S. and the international community. Romney wants to get into the office and call out Russia, China, Venezuela, North Korea, and Iran all at once. Yes we understand that these countries are the "bad guys" right now in some ways but the sh!t storm that would occur from "going after" them as Romney so declares would be unprecedented. Romney made a fool out of himself in Isreal and the UK for the olympics.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I wasn't saying that the end of slavery made everyone equal but I can see how it came off that way and for that I apologize. As for racism being a motivating factor for some to not vote for Obama, I completely agree. However, do you think it's fair to say that some blacks are voting for Obama solely on his skin color? Racism goes both ways.

Undoubtedly there are blacks that hate white people and will vote for Obama strictly based off skin color(Then again there are black people that don't consider him black, but that's a topic for another day). But I think the majority (or at least that I've met or know) had this belief that the election of a black man (Obama) would somehow fix the racial problems of America. He would not just have read about or studied racism but would have felt it and so he would not allow it to continue. So not vote for the black guy because you don't want a white guy as Prez, but vote for the black guy because he won't/ can't let "us" down like the others.

 

[PraetorianND]

First off, Chris Wallace is a registered Democrat so let's throw party affiliation out the window. As for that interview, he was asking for details about his tax plan; details that the Romney campaign has been vague about at best. I understand that it's difficult to believe in a tax plan that has been kept under wraps but let's be honest... even if you knew all the details would you truly understand how it would affect you? I'm not saying that you're stupid but I know that I, myself, wouldn't fully understand it. I'm not an accountant and am only vaguely familiar with tax deductions and loopholes. I believe Obama has failed us as a President and that Romney has proven himself to be a worthy replacement. Though, in all honestly, I'd love to see Gary Johnson win it all!

I am a tax attorney so I can tell you this. Nobody in their right mind should vote for a guy who might take the mortgage interest deduction away without telling you. It blows my mind that any low/middle class person would even considering voting for Romney at this point. Until he explicitly says which deductions he is planning to close you simply cannot vote for him.

The mortgage interest deduction is the most used deduction and if it went away MANY families would not be able to make their obligations annually. Many families bought houses and budgeted with this deduction in the calculation and it would destroy a ton of people's budgets. It would also crush the housing market which helps drive our economy. It would be a really, really bad move. He hasn't said he's not closing it so please don't vote for Romney.

 

[pkt77242]

I've been over this a thousand times. He said a ton of bullshit to win the primary. He has always been a moderate and his policies largely reflect that. Losers don't make policy.

If you're a member of a political party in which 60% are absolutely crazy and will vote for Santorum over you, then you go out and say "I was a severely conservative governor" and they all smile and fap fap fap and you win. Again, losers don't make policy. Then, as I said during the primaries, we immediately stopped with the abortion/gay/contraceptive/PlannedParenthood talk.

Now you can think less of him and wish that he'd have ridden losing policies through the primary, but that's on you. I'm completely okay with a Machiavellian approach to the GOP idiots.



We don't, but we do have history on our side and showing us that he did this before.

You are doing nothing more than fear mongering right now.

A sensible person would notice:

1) they won't get to 20% and that is merely a goal. If you notice, Gillespie all but spilled the beans there.

2) lowering loopholes will be a tax increase for many the EVIL rich.

3) lowering the overall rate will benefit small businesses, which are the engine of major job creation in this country. If GE is paying an effective rate of 0% instead of the 35% but then pays 25%, they get an effective tax increase and others get a more hospitable business environment.

4) you have to work with Congress to get stuff done (news to Obama, huh?), and naming specifics has historically been political suicide.

Really Buster? I think you should be talking to the Republicans about working with the President. It goes both ways.

 

[Buster Bluth]

My favorite parts from the debate:

 

[Buster Bluth]

Really Buster? I think you should be talking to the Republicans about working with the President. It goes both ways.

There, finally something agreeable.

 

[PraetorianND]

Fear Mongering 101

Oh really? I am a tax attorney and I work for a big 4 accounting firm. This is not fear mongering. I know of many people who would be drastically negatively impacted if the mortgage interest deduction was to be closed.

I am telling you, if you budgeted having the mortgage interest deduction included then you should not vote for Romney plain and simple. Why? Because when asked point blank if he was going to close the deduction (amongst others) during the second debate he did not say no.

And if you want to respond by saying well saying specifics is political suicide then so be it vote for him. It's just not smart.

I've been over this a thousand times. He said a ton of bullshit to win the primary. He has always been a moderate and his policies largely reflect that. Losers don't make policy.

If you're a member of a political party in which 60% are absolutely crazy and will vote for Santorum over you, then you go out and say "I was a severely conservative governor" and they all smile and fap fap fap and you win. Again, losers don't make policy. Then, as I said during the primaries, we immediately stopped with the abortion/gay/contraceptive/PlannedParenthood talk.

So let me get this straight. You're ok that he blatantly swung from middle to right back to middle just to win the nomination?

It's comical that you can tell me I'm "fear mongering" because I have a substantiated worry over a specific policy issue while you're justifying straight up lying to get a nomination.

 

[PraetorianND]

I'd have done the exact same thing.

Enough said.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Chris Wallace:

"...but you locked them in on the 20% tax rate."

Ed Gillespie:

"With the 20% tax rate, I think that people will understand that that is a broad principle, that the tax rate needs to come down, and we need to broaden the base--that's the principle."

Makes sense to me.

 

[JughedJones]

Swinging back to the center is a time honored tradition in politics and in itself is no big deal. It's happened every time there's a primary election.

However: I defy you to find someone so eager to bail on his most fundamental principals as much and as fast as Romney has shown he's willing to do.

I also defy you to find one central issue that he hasn't been on both sides of (often in the span of one day.)

A) Abortion? Check.
B) Gun Control? Check.
C) Gay Rights? Check.
D) Foreign Policy? Check.
E) Health Care? Check.
F) Fiscal Policy? Check.

(I could go on)

It's really incredible and startling that he believes this strategy of saying what his views are, then not even waiting till the next day for his press crew to quietly reverse his opinions. It's cynical, dastardly, and it might just work.

Buster said: "4) you have to work with Congress to get stuff done (news to Obama, huh?), and naming specifics has historically been political suicide."

Filibusters by year:

107th Congress, 2001-2003, Democrats in minority: 71 cloture motions filed

108th Congress, 2003-2005, Dem minority: 62

109th Congress, 2005-2007, Dem minority: 68

110th Congress, 2007-2009, Republican minority: 139

111th Congress, 2009-2011, Rep minority: 137

112th Congress, 2011-2013, Rep minority: 87 (so far)



Um... yeah.

 

[Cogs]

Politicians are the wrong with America. They don't live the lives of the everyday American, therefore they are blinded to how life, liberty, and property really work. Very few of these people have driven their own cars, bought their own groceries, or even cooked there own meal, and these are the people we elect to run our country. But hey, it's not like we have a choice, politics are a popularity contest. Sorry, just thought I'd add my two cents.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Swinging back to the center is a time honored tradition in politics and in itself is no big deal. It's happened every time there's a primary election.

However: I defy you to find someone so eager to bail on his most fundamental principals as much and as fast as Romney has shown he's willing to do.

Primary speeches =! policy

I also defy you to find one central issue that he hasn't been on both sides of (often in the span of one day.)

A) Abortion? Check.
B) Gun Control? Check.
C) Gay Rights? Check.
D) Foreign Policy? Check.
E) Health Care? Check.
F) Fiscal Policy? Check.

(I could go on)

It's really incredible and startling that he believes this strategy of saying what his views are, then not even waiting till the next day for his press crew to quietly reverse his opinions. It's cynical, dastardly, and it might just work.

Well I can flip on B, C, E, and F solely depending on what level of government I am on. Romney has never been knowledgeable on D and I don't expect to see that going forward, it's really easy to "flip-flop" when you don't know what you're talking about; some call it learning.

A is a genuine flip-flop I guess. But A, B, C cannot be changed from the President's desk.

He is being voted for to create a more hospitable business climate and to finally turn around this economy. I could give a flying fukk about the rest, for the most part. I have openly criticized him on here for several of these very things you mentioned. But, "it's the economy, stupid."

Filibusters by year:

107th Congress, 2001-2003, Democrats in minority: 71 cloture motions filed

108th Congress, 2003-2005, Dem minority: 62

109th Congress, 2005-2007, Dem minority: 68

110th Congress, 2007-2009, Republican minority: 139

111th Congress, 2009-2011, Rep minority: 137

112th Congress, 2011-2013, Rep minority: 87 (so far)



Um... yeah.

I would say that we should get rid of filibusters, but that wouldn't fix the problem. The federal govt is the problem. You're not going to get this libertarian-leaning guy to complain about filibusters. haha

 

[Buster Bluth]

Politicians are the wrong with America. They don't live the lives of the everyday American, therefore they are blinded to how life, liberty, and property really work. Very few of these people have driven their own cars, bought their own groceries, or even cooked there own meal, and these are the people we elect to run our country. But hey, it's not like we have a choice, politics are a popularity contest. Sorry, just thought I'd add my two cents.

None of those are true about the Obamas (pre-Presidency) or the Romneys. I don't think the imagine you have is correct.

I think they (career politicians) can be blinded due to special interests, not because of ignorance.

Hell a lot of them make bad decisions for the country because of their knowledge of how it would effect their district and their constituents' lives, e.g. not wanting to shut down useless government _____ because there is money/jobs in their district. Weapons manufacturing, science testing, postal service stations, etc etc etc.

 

[JughedJones]

<iframe src="http://www.funnyordie.com/embed/32fefff604" width="448" height="376" frameborder="0"></iframe><div style="text-align:left;font-size:x-small;margin-top:0;width:448px;"><a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/32fefff604/ayn-rand-private-access-show" title="from Michaela Watkins, Rob Delaney, Funny Or Die, Alex Fernie, Brian Lane, Andy Maxwell, Ally Hord, and BoTown Sound">Ayn Rand Private Access Show</a> from <a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/michaela_watkins">Michaela Watkins</a> <iframe src="http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?app_id=138711277798&href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnyordie.com%2Fvideos%2F32fefff604%2Fayn-rand-private-access-show&send=false&layout=button_count&width=150&show_faces=false&action=like&height=21" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" style="border:none; overflow:hidden; width:90px; height:21px; vertical-align:middle;" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>
</div>

 

[irish1958]

"A is a genuine flip-flop I guess. But A, B, C cannot be changed from the President's desk."
Actually, they can, by appointments to the Supreme Court, and it will be changed for generations not just a few months or years.
If you want to kill liberalism in this country appoint a few more Scalias to the court and throw in a Bork or two; and we are suddenly back to eighteenth century France before the revolution.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Wrong on literally every point. We have our smartest and most temperamentally sound President of our lifetime, and you people continue to tell yourselves whatever you need to justify your delusional anger that you can't explain. Definitely not insecurity or racism, though. Honestly, these eight "points" are so utterly detached from reality it's as disconcerting as it is infuriating. If you want to hand the country back to greedy a-holes that wouldn't pee on you if you were on fire so as to make sure that a black man doesn't inhabit the White House, thats your prerogative. Tragically, your vote is worth the same as people who are capable of thinking. We get what we deserve. I'm still holding out hope that there enough people out here to save you from your own ignorance and stupidity.

1) If I'm wrong on every point it should be easy to rip each argument apart, tear me to shreds, and make me look like an idiot. Go for it.

2) If he were the "smartest president" we've ever had, we'd be paying $1.50 in gas and unemployment would be 5%. That isn't the case.

3) Nothing in my post involved or implied race. In fact, Obama is in the White House because of how many white poeple voted for him in 2008.

 

[RDU Irish]

My respect for someone drops instantly when they kill someone like me without a trial.

Shave your beard, stop buying large quantities of diesel and fertilizer, and stop hanging out in Pakistan and you'll have less to worry about.

I do find it interesting Obama pretty much ignores the Pakistan border, taking drones and Seal Team 6 to donkey punch bad guys at our discretion. Since a Dem did it first, it is being accepted as A-OK. Guantanimo is still open BTW, pretty funny how quickly Obama realized his stance there was stupid and immature.

 

[GoIrish41]

You do realize that their foreign policy views are essentially the same, their economic views are fairly close (same economic theory) and their social policies are essentially the same.

I realize that on Monday night, their foreign policy views were essentially the same. However, you do realize that Romney made dramatic shifts on his positions during the debate that he was not campaigning on for the past two years, right?

Their economic views may be close (I would argue they are not) but how we get to the finish line are a million miles away.

Their social policies are not even close to being the same. Romney has shamelessly transformed his views on all manner of social issues for the expediency of the moment and the audience he is speaking to. Obama rightly pointed out that Romney is all over the map. Since I'm not running for office and never will, I can put it more bluntly ... Romney has no soul, believes in nothing and will say anything to become president.

 

[JughedJones]

Shave your beard, stop buying large quantities of diesel and fertilizer, and stop hanging out in Pakistan and you'll have less to worry about.

I do find it interesting Obama pretty much ignores the Pakistan border, taking drones and Seal Team 6 to donkey punch bad guys at our discretion. Since a Dem did it first, it is being accepted as A-OK. Guantanimo is still open BTW, pretty funny how quickly Obama realized his stance there was stupid and immature.

Yeah, except going into Pakistan to get Al-Qaeda was part of his platform as a candidate and he attempted to close Gitmo, it was blocked...and he's said he's committed to keep trying.

Congress, rules keep Obama from closing Guantanamo Bay | McClatchy

But you know.. whatever.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Same invitation to you, my friend. If I'm such an idiot and all my points are invalid, pick each one apart and show us how. Unless you can do that you look like a flapping seal. All I did was take the president's record over 4 years and use his own words.

 

[JughedJones]

1) If I'm wrong on every point it should be easy to rip each argument apart, tear me to shreds, and make me look like an idiot. Go for it.

2) If he were the "smartest president" we've ever had, we'd be paying $1.50 in gas and unemployment would be 5%. That isn't the case.

3) Nothing in my post involved or implied race. In fact, Obama is in the White House because of how many white poeple voted for him in 2008.

Give me a break. Tell me exactly how the President controls gas prices. And if you say 'drill baby drill' I'm going to spit.

U.S. oil production soars toward record | The Morning Sentinel, Waterville, ME

U.S. production of crude and other liquid hydrocarbons is on track to rise 7 percent this year to an average of 10.9 million barrels per day. This will be the fourth straight year of crude increases and the biggest single-year gain since 1951.

 

[RDU Irish]

I think Rhode saw some recent polls before running of the deep end with his rant.

For the record, everyone is stupid who doesn't back my guy!

But hey, that is the stuff that riles the base. That was Obama's stance in the last two debates, rant and accuse without regard for facts. Shove as many words in your opponents mouth as you can and don't expose a single thought of your own. Obama was angry and unpresidential in the foreign policy debate and exhibited why he has alligator arms when it comes to reaching across the aisle.

As for swing voters who don't eat and breath politics, I think Romney reinforced the idea that he is not the monster Obama tried to paint him as and nothing like Bush.

 

[GoIrish41]

1) If I'm wrong on every point it should be easy to rip each argument apart, tear me to shreds, and make me look like an idiot. Go for it.

2) If he were the "smartest president" we've ever had, we'd be paying $1.50 in gas and unemployment would be 5%. That isn't the case.

3) Nothing in my post involved or implied race. In fact, Obama is in the White House because of how many white poeple voted for him in 2008.

1. Apparently you just want to argue for argument's sake. I think it is obvious that RI does not believe he needs to "rip each argument apart, tear you to shreds," to make you look like an idiot.
2. President's don't control gas prices. If they did, we'd be paying 50 cents a gallon every four years as the incumbent started campaigning. You know this. This is you channeling the idiotic Newt Gingrich premise that he grasped onto as his hopes of winning the GOP nomination were in free fall. It takes the entire government to focus on lowerining the unemployment rate. Unfortunately, the GOP House-led house had other priorities for the past two years -- i.e., ensuring that Obama wasn't president when the unemployment rate returned to acceptable levels. Obstructionism has not been discussed nearly enough during this election cycle.
3. I think the point is that your nonsensical arguments coupled with your over-the-top hatred could lead one to conclude other motivations than you want Romney because you want lower gas prices. There has been unprecidented disrespect for not only Obama, but the office of the presidency over the past four years and from day 1 of this administration. I think it would be difficult for anyone to suggest that isn't the case. The losing side never agrees with the president's policies. These past four years were pure hatred, plain and simple. Why is that?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

FYI, if you're writing more than 10 interrupted sentences you're doing it wrong.

Brevity is the hallmark of wit.

 

[Rhode Irish]

1) If I'm wrong on every point it should be easy to rip each argument apart, tear me to shreds, and make me look like an idiot. Go for it.

2) If he were the "smartest president" we've ever had, we'd be paying $1.50 in gas and unemployment would be 5%. That isn't the case.

3) Nothing in my post involved or implied race. In fact, Obama is in the White House because of how many white poeple voted for him in 2008.

I don't have the time or the interest to take each of your points apart. They're foolish right wing crazy talk and don't warrant the expenditure of energy. I'll tell you what, though: if you can go back and flesh out those arguments an provide some empirical support for them and explain the point you are trying to make with each of them and how they help you make that point, I'll be happy to engage you in a discussion about it. As it is, I'm not going to waste my time dismantling a bunch of meritless nonsense for the same reason I wouldn't call Sean Hannity's radio show. Your answer about gas prices belies the folly of trying to have an adult discussion with you.

 

[Bluto]

Primary speeches =! policy



Well I can flip on B, C, E, and F solely depending on what level of government I am on. Romney has never been knowledgeable on D and I don't expect to see that going forward, it's really easy to "flip-flop" when you don't know what you're talking about; some call it learning.

A is a genuine flip-flop I guess. But A, B, C cannot be changed from the President's desk.

He is being voted for to create a more hospitable business climate and to finally turn around this economy. I could give a flying fukk about the rest, for the most part. I have openly criticized him on here for several of these very things you mentioned. But, "it's the economy, stupid."



I would say that we should get rid of filibusters, but that wouldn't fix the problem. The federal govt is the problem. You're not going to get this libertarian-leaning guy to complain about filibusters. haha

Actually all of those can be affected by the presidency vis a vis a Supreme Court appointment. This is in fact one of the biggest reasons I will not be voting for Romney.

 

[pkt77242]

1) A degree doesn't impress me. What you've produced/ achieved over a career does. I don't want a community organizer in the White House any more than I want George Bush teaching a class on public speaking.

2) Getting elected president of the United States isn't a one man achievement. That's a large scale operation and Obama got elected because of his speaking ability and running as a Reagan moderate. We know this now all to be false.

3) I bring up the grades because libs loved calling Bush an idiot but he got better grades than Kerry and we still don't know Obama's grades. Love double standards.

4) What has he done to our country? We're far worse off now (aside from taking out bin *****) than we were 4 years ago in every aspect. That question deserves an entirely new thread. Everything that should be up (private sector jobs, home ownership, take home pay, etc) is down and everything that should be down (debt, deficits, unemployment, food stamps, gas prices, inflation) is up. Last night, despite all this, the president has the audacity to tell Americans we are stronger than we were 4 years ago. Welcome to the twilight zone.

5) "When Congress refuses to act, Joe (Biden) and I will." February 21, 2012. I don't make this $hit up. I'm taking the guy at his own word.

6) Obamacare is by far the biggest tool for redistribution of wealth, forcing one group of people to pay for another group. As our pal Vladimir Lenin said, "Socialized medicine is the cornerstone of the communist state."
7) What does that image look like? The past four years repeated without worrying about another pesky election and as he promised Putin in Russia..."more flexibility."

8) Your words...not mine. If you aren't bothered by the socialist dictators of the world lining up behind Obama, that's a you problem.

Since I have to go to work I will just point out one issue with your post for now but I think it exemplifies why RI attacked you. Lets look at number 6 that you posted.

Either you don't know what Socialism is or you spend way too much time watching/listening to Hannity, Limbaugh and/or Beck.

In fact every country that has socialized medicine would be laughing at your right now. How is making people buy insurance from insurance companies socialism? This isn't a single payer system or anything along that line.

Also you are already paying for them to get healthcare you just don't see it. Every time someone with out insurance goes to the ER and gets treated and can't pay for it, we all do. The hospital writes some off, charges insurance companies more for their clients visits and then the insurance companies charge you more because they are a for profit company. There are many other ways that uninsured individuals cost you more but that is one of the main ways.

Also generally speaking throwing Lenin out there is considered inflamatory especially since this isn't socialized medicine which makes your statement seem more hateful.

Ok I am off to work but I am leaving you all with a question. For those of you who hate the idea of a single payer system (socialized medicine) what do you think of the VA system?

And I will preempt the question of quality with a study showing that the VA is actual a pretty damn good system
Improving Quality of Care: How the VA Outpaces Other Systems in Delivering Patient Care | RAND