Politics

[Cackalacky]

This is how it works. ALEC or (insert left-wing lobbyist here), pays someone to write legislation they want passed. They then donate $$$$ to said politians who may or may not even represent them, to introduce the bill or vote a particular way once it is introduced.

US. Congressman = best investment/return ratio ever. At what point does this represent the people?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This is how it works. ALEC or (insert left-wing lobbyist here), pays someone to write legislation they want passed. They then donate $$$$ to said politians who may or may not even represent them, to introduce the bill or vote a particular way once it is introduced.

US. Congressman = best investment/return ratio ever. At what point does this represent the people?

Can someone provide a list of all the lobbyists that conduct the devils own business, regardless of stripe? Not bull shiit, like for real. ALEC has been at it for a long time and is everything reported. What others? And what congresspersons?

 

[Cackalacky]

The end of Democracy

The end of Democracy

"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."

Variations: "The country is headed toward a single and splendid government of an aristocracy founded on banking institutions and moneyed incorporations and if this tendency continues it will be the end of freedom and democracy, the few will be ruling...I hope we shall...crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government to trial and bid defiance to the laws of our country. I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."[1]

Sources consulted:

1.Papers of Thomas Jefferson: Digital Edition
2.Thomas Jefferson: Papers collection in Hathi Trust Digital Library
3.Retirement Papers

The end of democracy...(Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson’s Monticello

If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will
grow up around them (around the banks),
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless
on the continent their fathers conquered."
-Thomas Jefferson

NOSTRADAMUS. Mind blown?

 

[Cackalacky]

Can someone provide a list of all the lobbyists that conduct the devils own business, regardless of stripe? Not bull shiit, like for real. ALEC has been at it for a long time and is everything reported. What others? And what congresspersons?

Lobbying Database | OpenSecrets

Enjoy.

 

[Cackalacky]

Lobbying Spending Database-Southern Co, 2012 | OpenSecrets
Southern Co: Recipients | OpenSecrets
Southern Co: All Recipients | OpenSecrets


Example:
For Southern Co - one ofthe largest energy producers in the south and is the top lobbyist against EPA. If you look at the list of bills they lobbied for. The next link will show you who they contributed the most to in the house and sentate (non-incumbent Republicans for the house and more democrats in the Senate....coincidence?). Contributions are relatively small too but total is alot. I also urge you to lok at the other "tabs" for this particualr company. You can see what bills concern them and howm much money they have spent on that as well.

 

[BGIF]

Lobbying Spending Database-Southern Co, 2012 | OpenSecrets
Southern Co: Recipients | OpenSecrets
Southern Co: All Recipients | OpenSecrets


Example:
For Southern Co - one ofthe largest energy producers in the south and is the top lobbyist against EPA. If you look at the list of bills they lobbied for. The next link will show you who they contributed the most to in the house and sentate (non-incumbent Republicans for the house and more democrats in the Senate....coincidence?). Contributions are relatively small too but total is alot. I also urge you to lok at the other "tabs" for this particualr company. You can see what bills concern them and howm much money they have spent on that as well.

Southern Co has waged bitter battles with EPA for decades over emissions, air quality, coal, natural gas, and nuclear regs that I'm aware of.

 

[Cackalacky]

Southern Co has waged bitter battles with EPA for decades over emissions, air quality, coal, natural gas, and nuclear regs that I'm aware of.

You are correct. They are also one of the largest polluters in the nation, particularly their coal-fired plants.

 

[NDFan4Life]

To sum up this thread in a very simple equation:

To be Republican & rich = very, very bad.

To be Democrat & rich = very, very good.

 

[tadman95]

I guess there's no real requirement for political ads to be accurate. I see a lot of facts presented without context so truth is obscured.

I really dread the next 2 1/2 months.

 

[DSully1995]

"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."

Variations: "The country is headed toward a single and splendid government of an aristocracy founded on banking institutions and moneyed incorporations and if this tendency continues it will be the end of freedom and democracy, the few will be ruling...I hope we shall...crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government to trial and bid defiance to the laws of our country. I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."[1]

Sources consulted:

1.Papers of Thomas Jefferson: Digital Edition
2.Thomas Jefferson: Papers collection in Hathi Trust Digital Library
3.Retirement Papers

The end of democracy...(Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson’s Monticello



NOSTRADAMUS. Mind blown?

Thats great and all, but Thomas Jefferson would **** his pants at the sight of our world today, and the complexities it brings.



Just a question for all of you, if my mother works for Exxon one of the most polluting companies in the world ( and even though im not educated on this company very much im sure it also lobbyied for wars for oil), my mother makes a great salary and profits enormously from Exxon, is she a bad person too?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

To sum up this thread in a very simple equation:

To be Republican & rich = very, very bad.

To be Democrat & rich = very, very good.

Gore Vidal died at the begining of this month. He always says much better than I can what I am thinking. He once claimed that there was one party in the United States, that of property, with two wings. The right treated those with wealth a little better some of the time and the left treated those without better some of the time.

Here are more quotes:

Gore Vidal Quotes on Politics & Government

We are permanently the United States of Amnesia. We learn nothing because we remember nothing.
- "The State of the Union," The Nation, September 13, 2004.

My father had a deep and lifelong contempt for politicians in general ("They tell lies," he used to say with wonder, "even when they don't have to").
- "On Flying," 1985, in At Home, 1988.

The United States was founded by the brightest people in the country — and we haven't seen them since.
- "The State of the Union" (1975) in Matters of Fact and Fiction, 1978.

As societies grow decadent, the language grows decadent, too. Words are used to disguise, not to illuminate, action: you liberate a city by destroying it. Words are to confuse, so that at election time people will solemnly vote against their own interests.
- The Decline and Fall of the American Empire, 1992.

We should stop going around babbling about how we're the greatest democracy on earth, when we're not even a democracy. We are a sort of militarised republic.
- "Gore Vidal and the Mind of the Terrorist," interview by Ramona Koval, Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Radio National, 2001.

Every four years the naive half who vote are encouraged to believe that if we can elect a really nice man or woman President everything will be all right. But it won't be.
-The Decline and Fall of the American Empire, 1992.

You know, I've been around the ruling class all my life, and I've been quite aware of their total contempt for the people of the country.
- Interview with Paul Jay, The Real News, July 5, 2009.

Any individual who is able to raise [enough money] to be considered presidential is not going to be much use to the people at large. He will represent...whatever moneyed entities are paying for him.... Hence, the sense of despair throughout the land as incomes fall, businesses fail and there is no redress.
- The Decline and Fall of the American Empire, 1992.

All that area from which the Gore family comes was solid Democrat and progressive under Roosevelt for several decades. So they just didn't become Republicans because they all wanted to be bankers. They became Republicans because they didn't like black people, and they thought the Democrats were pushing integration too fast. And that's how the great split came about, to the shame of the whole country.
- Interview with Paul Jay, The Real News, July 5, 2009.

"Liberal' comes from the Latin liberalis, which means pertaining to a free man. In politics, to be liberal is to want to extend democracy through change and reform. One can see why that word had to be erased from our political lexicon.
- "The Great Unmentionable: Monotheism and its Discontents," The Lowell Lecture, Harvard University, April 20, 1992.

Little Bush says....we are at war on terror. It's like having a war on dandruff, it's endless and pointless.
- "An American Icon: Gore Vidal on Italy, Iraq - and Why He Hates George Bush," by Peter Popham. The Independent, June 23rd, 2006.

 

[Cackalacky]

Thats great and all, but Thomas Jefferson would **** his pants at the sight of our world today, and the complexities it brings.



Just a question for all of you, if my mother works for Exxon one of the most polluting companies in the world ( and even though im not educated on this company very much im sure it also lobbyied for wars for oil), my mother makes a great salary and profits enormously from Exxon, is she a bad person too?

sounds like an extistential question to me.

 

[NDFan4Life]

I can play the little quote game too:

“Freedom is not empowerment. Empowerment is what the Serbs have in Bosnia. Anybody can grab a gun and be empowered. It's not entitlement. An entitlement is what people on welfare get, and how free are they? It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights -- the "right" to education, the "right" to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery -- hay and a barn for human cattle. There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“The second item in the liberal creed, after self-righteousness, is unaccountability. Liberals have invented whole college majors--psychology, sociology, women's studies--to prove that nothing is anybody's fault. No one is fond of taking responsibility for his actions, but consider how much you'd have to hate free will to come up with a political platform that advocates killing unborn babies but not convicted murderers. A callous pragmatist might favor abortion and capital punishment. A devout Christian would sanction neither. But it takes years of therapy to arrive at the liberal view.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“America wasn't founded so that we could all be better. America was founded so we could all be anything we damned well pleased.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“The Clinton administration launched an attack on people in Texas because those people were religious nuts with guns. Hell, this country was founded by religious nuts with guns. Who does Bill Clinton think stepped ashore on Plymouth Rock?”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it. A politician who portrays himself as "caring" and "sensitive" because he wants to expand the government's charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing to try to do good with other people's money. Well, who isn't? And a voter who takes pride in supporting such programs is telling us that he'll do good with his own money -- if a gun is held to his head.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”
― P.J. O'Rourke, Give War a Chance: Eyewitness Accounts of Mankind's Struggle Against Tyranny, Injustice, and Alcohol-Free Beer

“The principal feature of American liberalism is sanctimoniousness. By loudly denouncing all bad things — war and hunger and date rape — liberals testify to their own terrific goodness. More important, they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite of those who care deeply about such things.... It's a kind of natural aristocracy, and the wonderful thing about this aristocracy is that you don't have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky to join it, you just have to be liberal.”
― P.J. O'Rourke, Give War a Chance: Eyewitness Accounts of Mankind's Struggle Against Tyranny, Injustice, and Alcohol-Free Beer

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”
- Winston Churchill

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[Cackalacky]

To sum up this thread in a very simple equation:

To be Republican & rich = very, very bad.

To be Democrat & rich = very, very good.

Interesting, I did not get that at all from reading this thread. Not even close....

 

[NDFan4Life]

Interesting, I did not get that at all from reading this thread. Not even close....

Did you go back and re-read the entire thread? I know I sure the hell didn't.

Anyway, there's posts that want Romney to release his tax records. IMO, this equals my summation that being a Republican and rich is very bad.

On the other hand, Harry Reid has never released any of his tax returns when asked. Obama has never released any of his college transcripts. Again, I believe that this equates to my summation that being a Democrat and rich is very good.

All of this is just my opinion of course.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Tax returns and college transcripts are apples and oranges. There is nothing wrong with being rich. All of our recent presidents have been rich and they released their tax returns. None have released their college transcripts to my knowledge. Also, Harry Reid isn't running for president, but I think members of congress should release their returns too.

 

[NDFan4Life]

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I can play the little quote game too:

“Freedom is not empowerment. Empowerment is what the Serbs have in Bosnia. Anybody can grab a gun and be empowered. It's not entitlement. An entitlement is what people on welfare get, and how free are they? It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights -- the "right" to education, the "right" to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery -- hay and a barn for human cattle. There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“The second item in the liberal creed, after self-righteousness, is unaccountability. Liberals have invented whole college majors--psychology, sociology, women's studies--to prove that nothing is anybody's fault. No one is fond of taking responsibility for his actions, but consider how much you'd have to hate free will to come up with a political platform that advocates killing unborn babies but not convicted murderers. A callous pragmatist might favor abortion and capital punishment. A devout Christian would sanction neither. But it takes years of therapy to arrive at the liberal view.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“America wasn't founded so that we could all be better. America was founded so we could all be anything we damned well pleased.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“The Clinton administration launched an attack on people in Texas because those people were religious nuts with guns. Hell, this country was founded by religious nuts with guns. Who does Bill Clinton think stepped ashore on Plymouth Rock?”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it. A politician who portrays himself as "caring" and "sensitive" because he wants to expand the government's charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing to try to do good with other people's money. Well, who isn't? And a voter who takes pride in supporting such programs is telling us that he'll do good with his own money -- if a gun is held to his head.”
― P.J. O'Rourke

“At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”
― P.J. O'Rourke, Give War a Chance: Eyewitness Accounts of Mankind's Struggle Against Tyranny, Injustice, and Alcohol-Free Beer

“The principal feature of American liberalism is sanctimoniousness. By loudly denouncing all bad things — war and hunger and date rape — liberals testify to their own terrific goodness. More important, they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite of those who care deeply about such things.... It's a kind of natural aristocracy, and the wonderful thing about this aristocracy is that you don't have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky to join it, you just have to be liberal.”
― P.J. O'Rourke, Give War a Chance: Eyewitness Accounts of Mankind's Struggle Against Tyranny, Injustice, and Alcohol-Free Beer

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”
- Winston Churchill

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

Yeah, but yours suck. Technically, they have the hollow ring of half-truth, or drag us through the mud of the author’s malcontent. Except Eisenhower's; it just has very limited application outside of this thread.

 

[NDFan4Life]

Yeah, but yours suck. Technically, they have the hollow ring of half-truth, or drag us through the mud of the author’s malcontent. Except Eisenhower's; it just has very limited application outside of this thread.

To quote The Dude:

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

 

[Cackalacky]

Did you go back and re-read the entire thread? I know I sure the hell didn't.

Anyway, there's posts that want Romney to release his tax records. IMO, this equals my summation that being a Republican and rich is very bad.


All of this is just my opinion of course.

Yes I did. Thanks for showing what we all know already. You did not read the thread yet attempted to sum the whole thread up with a FAIL. We appreciate your opinion.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

No, look at your quotes. They are specifically politically motivated. I would not have to guess they came from a libertarian source. They speak to individuals, not situations or actions. And they are all about putting people who don't "understand" down. They are just plain misanthropic.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

I'd like to know how those of you who are leaning to the right on these issues feel about the redfining of rape, and the comments made by Akin? I mean, do you really think Men should be making legislative decisions regarding biological process they will never ever experience (such as pregnancy, menstruation) but honestly, how do you feel about those comments? Do they scare you or make you feel like Akin and some republicans who have agreed with him (Incuding Rick Santorum) are domestic terrorists or a threat to women?

 

[mgriff]

Yay for partisan patriots! This will certainly be the year that the two-party system will fix all the problems we've been creating for the last several decades...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'd like to know how those of you who are leaning to the right on these issues feel about the redfining of rape, and the comments made by Akin? I mean, do you really think Men should be making legislative decisions regarding biological process they will never ever experience (such as pregnancy, menstruation) but honestly, how do you feel about those comments? Do they scare you or make you feel like Akin and some republicans who have agreed with him (Incuding Rick Santorum) are domestic terrorists or a threat to women?

Did you ever google "santorum". I won't answer the question because I don't lean, or list.

But I am afraid of the men who haven't experienced either set of biological processes; doesn't matter what they try to legislate.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Yeah, but yours suck. Technically, they have the hollow ring of half-truth, or drag us through the mud of the author’s malcontent. Except Eisenhower's; it just has very limited application outside of this thread.

I have always loved the Churchill quote.

 

[tadman95]

I'd like to know how those of you who are leaning to the right on these issues feel about the redfining of rape, and the comments made by Akin? I mean, do you really think Men should be making legislative decisions regarding biological process they will never ever experience (such as pregnancy, menstruation) but honestly, how do you feel about those comments? Do they scare you or make you feel like Akin and some republicans who have agreed with him (Incuding Rick Santorum) are domestic terrorists or a threat to women?

I think the only law men should pass about abortion is a law that only women may pass laws about abortion. Figure women would probably come up with the right answers. I will admit I would love to be a fly on the wall in that room.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I have always loved the Churchill quote.

Me too. But it is so ironic that the qualities that he relied on to get his country through the war failed him so badly afterward. I also, always liked the one about the English Buldog's nostrils being set back from his canine teeth, so he could breath as he bit down and held on.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think the only law men should pass about abortion is a law that only women may pass laws about abortion. Figure women would probably come up with the right answers. I will admit I would love to be a fly on the wall in that room.

Not necessarily painting a pretty picture; buzz, buzz!

 

[Redbar]

I'd like to know how those of you who are leaning to the right on these issues feel about the redfining of rape, and the comments made by Akin? I mean, do you really think Men should be making legislative decisions regarding biological process they will never ever experience (such as pregnancy, menstruation) but honestly, how do you feel about those comments? Do they scare you or make you feel like Akin and some republicans who have agreed with him (Incuding Rick Santorum) are domestic terrorists or a threat to women?

I find it ironic at the least and terrifying at the most that the fundmentalist "religious right" here in the U.S. is finding common ground with the islamic fundamentalist in their belief that they have a duty to rule over women, murder those people (in church)who do not agree with their beliefs, and use rhetoric that thinly veils their contempt for homosexuals. Some have even given money and aligned themselves with fundamentalist in Nigeria who are proposing the death penalty for homosexuals. He even came to visit a certain home on K Street. It probably should not surprise any of us that there is such common agreement about the issues but now some of the tactics are being copied. How long before we have suicide bombers in Kansas or Missouri?

 

[pkt77242]

Republicans (they're ALL "obstructionists?) and the Blue Dog Democrats "don't put the country ahead of of their own selfish interest". So from your description that leaves only the Yellow Dog Democrats left to act with the country ahead of their own selfish interest? Isn't it the Blue Dogs who try more than anyone to build consensus between left and right? Isn't it the Blue Dogs who advocate Fiscal Responsibility?

Yet what did Speaker Pelosi do to those Blue Dogs with Committee Assignments?




Basic political math 50 votes IS a majority especially when the President of The Senate is in the same party.

But that doesn't matter does it as the Democrats had 51 Senators in the 112th Congress while the Republicans only had 47. Oh and about those 2 independents, Sanders and Lieberman.

Sanders is a self described Democratic Socialist BUT he caucuses with the Democrats AND is counted as a Democrat for committee assignments.

Lieberman is a REGISTERED Democrat and also caucuses with the Democrats AND is counted as a Democrat for committee assignments. Interesting that the Senate Majority Leader let Lieberman keep his Chairmanship of the Senate Committe on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.

Bogs, the Dems controlled the Senate 53% to 47% with the tie breaking vote in their pocket at the Start of the 112th Congress. Also the Majority Leader (a Democrat) move things in the Senate and The Senate President also a Democrat holds the gavel.

So stop with the woe is me, "but Obama didn't have control" BS.

And in the 111th Congress he had a 16 vote edge in The Senate and a 76 vote edge in The House.

Yeah, how could anyone expect Obama to get anything done controlling the White House, The House, and The Senate.

Not in the US Senate, you need at least 60 votes to get anything moving as the minority party seems to filibuster most bills thus forcing a cloture vote. So yes the Dems have the majority but now a days unless you have 60 votes, it doesn't matter.