Politics

[Arturoner]

I am sure about the victory of Obama.
As he is a man of great personality and did a lot for the nation so he must be one more chance to let him prove everything.

 

[JadeBrecks]

So let me see if I have this straight then about R's...

Hate women
hate minorities of all kinds
hate homosexuals
Are religious zealots
Are greedy
Love only rich people
hate the poor
Hate the middle class
Want to regulate all personal choices/freedom
Are facist
want to get rid of govt
want to poison air, water, earth
Want to wage war with all countries
Is apparently the party of hate and intolerance and stupidity

Oh the media...
FNC all tea party racist sexist homophobic liars speaking only R facist talking points with absolutely no facts
MSNBC leans left but seeks the truth since they are news people
CNN is center but are fools because of it
there is noliberal bias

Did I miss anything?

You forgot to put we are bigots too.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I am sure about the victory of Obama.
As he is a man of great personality and did a lot for the nation so he must be one more chance to let him prove everything.

Voter fraud. Busted.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You forgot to put we are bigots too.

Listen, I am not calling anyone anything. Because I don't know. That is on the individual level, certainly on this board.

But I watched a few specials and a read a few articles, have seen the polls this time and last. I find parallels between this election and an earlier one; 1960's is very similar. And the unifying theme is prejudice. I have handled some of the anti-Catholic literature distributed for that election. Then there was the "convent expose," written in the form of a dime-store novel. Republicans have always inferred that voter fraud (wow, that's a shock) was the reason that Nixon lost, and point to Chicago specifically, and use Republican drops in polling numbers as proof. But I think there two other reasons: Nixon looked like an unsavory bum in comparison to JFK; and, There was so much anti-Catholic sentiment that many would not admit, even with the anonymity of polls that they were going to vote for JFK.

Fast forward to today. This is only an election because 60 % of white people will not admit they would vote for a mixed race candidate. I am thinking last election that only about 40% actually wouldn't vote for a mixed rate candidate, with the economy melting down as the election took place. But I think that the American public see why that happened and laying the blame for the economic hurt on Obama isn't gaining traction, (If it were, the election would be over). I have confidence that the number of white people that are as you have labeled them "biggots" are down to about 35%.

And I want to make it really clear. I don't equate this huge group of white people as Republicans. I met a couple at a roadside rest with a white truck decorated on every side with anti-Obama epitaths. They were very racial in nature. I talked to them for a short while, and found out that they were both southern Democrats, and finally I asked them the question. They told me they did it because this country was founded on the right to free speech, (much more sophisticated than the free country argument I expected) and they stated that they would drive anywhere they pleased. I told them that I had just been talking to a friend on the east side of Toledo, and since they appeared to be going that way, they could follow me over to his house and we could have a nice discussion. They declined, as they said they weren't quite going to Toledo. I told them that was okay as I knew people at places in Cleveland, Detroit, Gary, or Chicago, that could ablige them. They further declined.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Are you white, Bog?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What do you think?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Is this the question game where we see who can continue answering with questions the longest? But, since it appears that you have your finger on the pulse of the white community so well I'm gonna say yes, you must be white. If not, I'd say your generalization of the white population, or at least the ones who vote, may be off base a bit.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I guess I considered my question to be a step above a smart@ss answer like, "I am Black Irish," which I am. But even having to ask is an indicator to me that you have no idea who I am. I have posted plenty here which indicates though I am a member of the overclass, I have seen through surface prejudices in a deep and meaningful way. I definitely have a "blues soul" and can get my hands dirty. But I am still working on getting down on my knees so I may fit through the eye of a needle.

As far as answering my question, thank you. Although I will tell you I don't understand your answer. I think I got lost with the question, are you black or white? I just don't see how it matters. There is accuracy in what I say, or there isn't. I think that we all have prejudices, but I am left with a question, how can my post be okay if I am white, but the same words be off base if I am not?

 

[connor_in]

The Democrats’ GM Fiction - The Editors - National Review Online

 

[connor_in]

You forgot to put we are bigots too.

nope...see number 2 on list...just didn't use that word

 

[GoIrish41]

Well I am glad you like Clinton because his speech was a breakdown of Obama’s policy versus Romney and debunking Romney’s attacks on Obama. Here is a breakdown of Clintons claims from politifact which says he did not lie once: (I know another "fact checking site")

PolitiFact | Bill Clinton's night at the Democratic convention

Clinton defended everything Obama did and destroyed all of Romney’s claims. Good thing he is “not unfriendly with Romney”




Yes in 2009 the stimulus failed that is why we are still losing 600,000 jobs a month. All failures should be so productive.



Oh the debt is $16 trillion? Where does that debt come from? Lets take a look (yes another link, this time with a graph!)

Republican National Convention: The one graph you need to see before watching

Notice how little of that actually came from Obama. Also take note that those big blocks of colors are things that the republican VP candidate voted for. The biggest misconception is that Ryan is a deficit hawk, he is not. Ryan is a government reformer; his plan would take nearly 40 years to reduce the hole that was created by things he voted for.

That price is too high to pay to ensure nearly 2 million people get back to work? People who will be off of unemployment and paying taxes again, you know, generating revenue.




Extending unemployment and providing work education is bad?

$35 Billion to rehire teachers, firefighters and cops is bad? Who needs teachers, cops and firefighter’s right? What service do they provide? Did you know that if you rehired all the teachers, cops, and firefighters laid off because of cuts to social programs since 2006 unemployment would be around 6%. You think these people who trained to be teachers, cops, and firefighters should just get work in the private sector doing… what?

$30 Billion to build and modernize schools and community colleges is bad? Yes we need to build ****ing high schools. Modernize them and rehire teachers so that the US can rank higher than 32nd in math, 17th in reading, and 25th in science. Educating the next generation and giving them tools to succeed because China is kicking our *** in all three categories. How do you expect the US to last if you keep cutting education to pay for tax cuts?

I know you think spending money to hire teachers, cops, firefighters, and building and modernizing schools is bad so you are in luck because in order for Romney to keep spending below 20% GDP (without cuts to military like he promised) Romney would have to cut ALL social programs by 40%

(yes another link, with numbers and graphs) Romney Budget Proposals Would Require Massive Cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and Other Programs — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

That means more layoffs for teachers, cops, and firefighters because government can’t create jobs, right?

Back to your “government handouts” we do not need more schools according to you, and we certainly do not need to modernize them, so why rebuild infrastructure with that additional $50 billion to those “mooching” unions. Everyone knows that construction is just a handout, that **** is cake. Look at that waste of space in Tampa that the RNC had there convention in. It was built by union workers on a government contract and it has not benefited the economy at all. Staples center is another example of a waste of space. Certainty the roads leading to them are not needed. Roads and bridges and building should just be allowed to collapse and deteriorate because that is good for the economy. Right? (sarcasm)



You were referring to this "Creating a nationwide, interoperable wireless network for public safety, while expanding accessibility to high-speed wireless services."

I will explain this to you. The US is still using copper wire phone lines. Countries like China, Japan, and Germany have replaced all of the copper phone lines with fiber optics. This makes the internet faster, and more efficient. This will also give the public access to internet while in the city. Making internet service available to millions of people who can not afford internet through wi-fi. The US tried going the private sector route when Clinton signed the telecommunication act of 96. The phone and cable companies promised they would replace all copper wires with fiber optics by 2008. They did not come through. Now Obama wants to have the government do it. This way we can keep up with countries like China, Japan, and Germany in technology. This also gives fast reliable internet access to inner cities and schools. You know, so they can keep up with the schools in China, Japan, and Germany which are all outperforming us. But you probably think this is bad too right?



Right because regulation is bad. Let’s see, Wall Street destroyed the US economy. The DOJ did an investigation and determined everything they did was legal. Here’s the kicker, had Wall Street done the exact same thing 20 years ago, they would all be in jail. Deregulation allowed them to gamble with tax payer money and crash the markets. You are right, things are better without rules. No one cheats. Right?



You are right, why raise taxes to generate revenue to pay off that $16 trillion debt you were bitching about earlier. Instead of raising taxes on the top 2% (immediately cutting a trillion off the deficit), Romney will give them a tax cut that will add a trillion to the deficit. How will he pay for it? Raise taxes on the bottom 80% of Americans

(yes a nother useless link, this one has a full detailed PDF report for you) Implications of Governor Romney's Tax Proposals: FAQs and Responses

Of course this is based on the Ryan budget and the Romney outline, because Romney has yet to release a detailed plan. Regardless, based on Romney’s outline, it is mathematically impossible to justify his tax cuts without raising taxes on 80% of Americans between $500-$2000 a year. What was that you said about raising taxes in a recession?



How about the stimulus? Here is another link looking at 15 independant studies. 12 of which said it worked and 1 said it sort of did.

The Romney campaign says stimulus doesn’t work. Here are the studies they left out.

That is 13 of 15 studies saying it worked. Less than 2% of the stimulus was wasted on "fraud". You can keep bringing up Solyndra because that is the only name you have. We can look at Romney's records of investment and see how mkany failures he had if you want to compare Bain and the stimulus.



That is right. I have evidence and studies and research. I know it is just stupid "interwebz" links to you but others may want to examine the differences between both parties policies. Who needs facts when you have your gut right? Here is my question to you buster. Why are tax breaks and programs favoring the middle and working class "government handouts" but tax breaks and programs favoring the rich and corporations not? How is the former picking winners and losers but the latter not? Lastly you never answered my original question which was, what policy did we hear at the RNC?

this was a great post. Well thought out and rich in detail. Reps Jason.

 

[RDU Irish]

Regardless of who wins, we are long overdue for a strong third party contender in 2016. The Canuck had some great insights. A three party system brings balance in calling out falsehoods and building better coalitions. A Fiscal Conservative, Socially Liberal platform is ripe for success if someone less loony than Ron Paul or Gary Johnson can pick it up. My pick.....

Rand Paul 2016

So make the point and vote Gary Johnson if your state is not in contention. Otherwise pick the lesser of two evils that best suits you. But if you realy think either side is being honest with you, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I believe your post to be inaccurate. As for your skin color; you brought race into a discussion about Republicans, not ethnicity. To speak on the prejudices of an ethnicity in which you do not fall under seems a bit off base to me.

 

[pkt77242]

Regardless of who wins, we are long overdue for a strong third party contender in 2016. The Canuck had some great insights. A three party system brings balance in calling out falsehoods and building better coalitions. A Fiscal Conservative, Socially Liberal platform is ripe for success if someone less loony than Ron Paul or Gary Johnson can pick it up. My pick.....

Rand Paul 2016

So make the point and vote Gary Johnson if your state is not in contention. Otherwise pick the lesser of two evils that best suits you. But if you realy think either side is being honest with you, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.

Rand Paul is not Socially Liberal. Just saying.

 

[pkt77242]

I believe your post to be inaccurate. As for your skin color; you brought race into a discussion about Republicans, not ethnicity. To speak on the prejudices of an ethnicity in which you do not fall under seems a bit off base to me.

What?
So because you witness things and observe things you can not comment on it?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

What?
So because you witness things and observe things you can not comment on it?

I would like to know what he has witnessed in life to come up with the figures he posted earlier.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Talking to a flood of unemployed and factory workers, that said they wouldn't vote for a n***** no matter how bad things got, four years ago and now.

A keen understanding of histoy, including but not limited to the post-Civil War union busting of the longshoremen and miners by owners pitting whites against Irish, and Irish against blacks. (In those days Irish were not white and obviously not black.)

One out of seven of my children is bi-racially dark and I have seen the darkhearted side of both races in the situation. But at least with African-Americans it is always overt, (and a much smaller percentage, too). Whites smile at you and patronize or stereotype the child. Do not try to break these biggots mores or they will get ugly. One of my other sons answered the phone when we moved into a nicer neighborhood, "threatening to kill the n*****. " Later they called back and threatened to kill us all for bringing the n***** into the neighborhood. The phone company and the FBI were on it. Apparently the local high school had a gang called the "Nazi N***** Haters."

So I have tons of experience. Raising a child to a productive adulthood, to feel good about themselves, and help them to acquire the tools that they don't react with anger toward that kind of abject ignorance and stupidity, grows you the tools. I am also enjoying my grandchildren, thank you!

 

[irishjet34]

Quick question to the thread, What exactly has Obama done to help out the middle class and small business owners? He has continued to quote he has done nothing to hurt them but lets look at the facts here. I am a small business owner in the aerospace/defense industry and here is what I have seen under his policies. The adminstrations regulatory policies have created a hostile climate for all small businesses (back bone of america) while his policies should be encouraging companies to grow. In Obamacare (Obamatax) alone there is thousands of new regulations to put on US businesses. I have started to read through but became too frustrated. Add to these regulations all the sneaky new taxes that Obama has been trying to add to the back of all small businesses. Higher taxes on businesses prevent businesses from growing which will not help our unemployment rate. At the same time as all this is going the adminstration has been encouraging a climate of government dependence. The Obama camp has actually been spending millions of dollars on running ads to encourage more people to go on food stamps. No wonder the amount of people on food stamps has increased nearly 15 million under his watch. I saw a chart a few posts back trying to show how little of the debt is Obama's fault but the problem that chart has been proven to be false and not including many important factors. The fact is our National Debt has been soaring under the current adminstration which is something that should cause great concern to everyone. The more the National debt rises the more future jobs it will be killing. The latest reports are that GM is on the verge of filing for bankruptcy, maybe another bailout? Please do not even get me started on what he has been doing to the defense industry. Obama is not to blame for causing the mess we are in right now but he has done nothing to help with the mess. If I was a head of a company and was given 4 years to at least show some improvement and I could not do it I can guarantee I would be give a pink slip.

 

[BobD]

Are you white, Bog?

I always check "Other" to make them wonder.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

My father, while stationed in Georgia with the Army, was jumped by a group of black men with bats. They put him in intensive care for 8 days. Today he has a spot on the back of his head, about the size of a silver dollar, where he is unable to grow hair due to his skull being cracked open and requiring surgery. Does this make my father an authority on the prevalent racism towards whites that exists in the black community? If so, let me call and ask him how many black people are only voting for Obama because of his complexion.

 

[RDU Irish]

Revisiting Ryan Versus Obama on Pell Grants | NewAmerica.net

Probably some students on the board here. Education debate has been effectively constrained to Pell Grants while the fact Stafford Loans under Bush could be rolled up for a 2% interest rate versus a 6.8% interest rate for the entirety of Obama's tenure.

Youth vote backed Obama big time, yet he focuses on Pell Grant gimmes to 9 million instead of reducing a 6.8% interest rate on the 37 million with loan balances outstanding. Reducing student loan interest rates in line with 10 year Treasuries would cost about $50 billion per year of lost interest (don't understand if government subsidizes a spread or ownes the loans now outright).

If I recall, Obama patted himself on the back at the DNC for consolidating student loans to a single government sponsored sight yet no mention is made of the interest rate charged and how it is more than three times that of six years ago.

Which program is a hand up, and which is a hand out? Obama takes from the hand up to add to a hand out. (granted Ryan increases the hand out also but does not explicitly take from the hand up).

I also suggest subsidizing lower student loan interest rates in better for our long run economy than subsidizing housing. Which party did more for this cause in over the last ten years?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Are you white, Bog?

I always check "Other" to make them wonder.

(I actually am "Other", Genna, but don't tell anyone.)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

My father, while stationed in Georgia with the Army, was jumped by a group of black men with bats. They put him in intensive care for 8 days. Today he has a spot on the back of his head, about the size of a silver dollar, where he is unable to grow hair due to his skull being cracked open and requiring surgery. Does this make my father an authority on the prevalent racism towards whites that exists in the black community? If so, let me call and ask him how many black people are only voting for Obama because of his complexion.

Not trying to start anything, and with all respect; do you see where your conflation is?

Conflation occurs when the identities of two or more individuals, concepts, or places, sharing some characteristics of one another, seem to be a single identity — the differences appear to become lost.[1] In logic, it is the practice of treating two distinct concepts as if they were one which does produce errors or misunderstandings, as a fusion of distinct subjects tends to obscure analysis of relationships which are emphasized by contrasts.

 

[RDU Irish]

Quick question to the thread, What exactly has Obama done to help out the middle class and small business owners? He has continued to quote he has done nothing to hurt them but lets look at the facts here. I am a small business owner in the aerospace/defense industry and here is what I have seen under his policies. The adminstrations regulatory policies have created a hostile climate for all small businesses (back bone of america) while his policies should be encouraging companies to grow. In Obamacare (Obamatax) alone there is thousands of new regulations to put on US businesses. I have started to read through but became too frustrated. Add to these regulations all the sneaky new taxes that Obama has been trying to add to the back of all small businesses. Higher taxes on businesses prevent businesses from growing which will not help our unemployment rate. At the same time as all this is going the adminstration has been encouraging a climate of government dependence. The Obama camp has actually been spending millions of dollars on running ads to encourage more people to go on food stamps. No wonder the amount of people on food stamps has increased nearly 15 million under his watch. I saw a chart a few posts back trying to show how little of the debt is Obama's fault but the problem that chart has been proven to be false and not including many important factors. The fact is our National Debt has been soaring under the current adminstration which is something that should cause great concern to everyone. The more the National debt rises the more future jobs it will be killing. The latest reports are that GM is on the verge of filing for bankruptcy, maybe another bailout? Please do not even get me started on what he has been doing to the defense industry. Obama is not to blame for causing the mess we are in right now but he has done nothing to help with the mess. If I was a head of a company and was given 4 years to at least show some improvement and I could not do it I can guarantee I would be give a pink slip.

quick answer, nothing - although some will argue healthcare you are smart enough to point out Obamacare is a tax. Now instead of dodging the hospital's bill collectors you will have to dodge the IRS too (too being properly used to mean - in addition to).

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quick question to the thread, What exactly has Obama done to help out the middle class and small business owners? He has continued to quote he has done nothing to hurt them but lets look at the facts here. I am a small business owner in the aerospace/defense industry and here is what I have seen under his policies. The adminstrations regulatory policies have created a hostile climate for all small businesses (back bone of america) while his policies should be encouraging companies to grow. In Obamacare (Obamatax) alone there is thousands of new regulations to put on US businesses. I have started to read through but became too frustrated. Add to these regulations all the sneaky new taxes that Obama has been trying to add to the back of all small businesses. Higher taxes on businesses prevent businesses from growing which will not help our unemployment rate. At the same time as all this is going the adminstration has been encouraging a climate of government dependence. The Obama camp has actually been spending millions of dollars on running ads to encourage more people to go on food stamps. No wonder the amount of people on food stamps has increased nearly 15 million under his watch. I saw a chart a few posts back trying to show how little of the debt is Obama's fault but the problem that chart has been proven to be false and not including many important factors. The fact is our National Debt has been soaring under the current adminstration which is something that should cause great concern to everyone. The more the National debt rises the more future jobs it will be killing. The latest reports are that GM is on the verge of filing for bankruptcy, maybe another bailout? Please do not even get me started on what he has been doing to the defense industry. Obama is not to blame for causing the mess we are in right now but he has done nothing to help with the mess. If I was a head of a company and was given 4 years to at least show some improvement and I could not do it I can guarantee I would be give a pink slip.

Quickly, I just thought I would point out that your "Republican 'Obamacare' Slip" was showing. Most people I know that wear any kind of Freuidian Slip wear it with their "Éirinn go brách." How about you?

 

[pkt77242]

quick answer, nothing - although some will argue healthcare you are smart enough to point out Obamacare is a tax. Now instead of dodging the hospital's bill collectors you will have to dodge the IRS too (too being properly used to mean - in addition to).

Actually I would argue he has done some things and some things have been blocked. He passed a bill that set up a $30 Billion small business lending fund so they could get capital easier and also gave them about $12 Billion in tax breaks for small businesses. Sigh, lets not let facts get in the way of talking points.

And he is pushing this bill but shocklingly the House won't touch it. Small business tax cut plan survives Senate test vote - 2chambers - The Washington Post

 

[autry_denson]

Quick question to the thread, What exactly has Obama done to help out the middle class...

... Obama is not to blame for causing the mess we are in right now but he has done nothing to help with the mess... If I was a head of a company and was given 4 years to at least show some improvement and I could not do it I can guarantee I would be give a pink slip.

Does anyone remember the state of our country in January of 2009? I know, it was a long long time ago but if you recall we were still on the brink of financial collapse and in the midst of two major wars. Every state in the country faced a sudden drop in revenue and unemployment skyrocketed over a couple months. The institutions that allow small businesses to start, aka banks, were still in danger of going under because their assets were toxic.

And then the Obama administration stabilized the economy and its financial institutions. His administration stabilized the auto industry - in the long-term this may not have been the most efficient strategy but in the short-term it allowed hundreds of thousands of middle and working-class families to keep working and it prevented our economy from free-falling further. He then passed the Recovery Act which did not only keep millions Americans working but made sure that middle-class students were going to schools that did not have to cut half their staff. It allowed hundreds of thousands (not an exaggeration) of poor and middle-class families to avoid homelessness when their homes were foreclosed or they were evicted. It extended unemployment benefits for workers who had no chance of finding a job in an economy where no firms were hiring. It kept thousands of cops on the street at a time when there was a real danger that cities and poorer suburbs could explode.

And if you don't care about any collective aspects of our society like crime on the street or the quality of our schools, he also cut middle-class families' taxes.

If you were hired to be the head of a company on the brink of collapse, and four years later the company wasn't booming but was on a solid foundation, you'd probably get a ridiculous bonus. The problem here is that 'things could have been much much worse' isn't inspiring even if it is 100% true.

sorry you have more paperwork to do b/c of the health care act. i hope your anger about this inconvenience is countered by the fact that you still have banks that can give you loans if you need them, your kids can still go to decent schools if you can't afford a private school tuition, and it's not too dangerous to walk outside your door at night b/c half of your police department wasn't laid off.

 

[RDU Irish]

... and the Red Sea parted.... Thanks Autry.

 

[autry_denson]

Actually I would argue he has done some things and some things have been blocked. He passed a bill that set up a $30 Billion small business lending fund so they could get capital easier and also gave them about $12 Billion in tax breaks for small businesses. Sigh, lets not let facts get in the way of talking points.

And he is pushing this bill but shocklingly the House won't touch it. Small business tax cut plan survives Senate test vote - 2chambers - The Washington Post

and this.

you may have a different philosophy of government or different values, and I can respect that. but the ignorance about what this administration has done from posters like RDU_Irish is embarrassing. If you want to make a case for a different strategy moving forward that's fine, but first try to take a clear-headed look at where we've been.

 

[RDU Irish]

So the article says "The plan would provide tax cuts this year to companies that hire new workers, give raises or buy new equipment this year. The proposal caps tax credits at $500,000 for firms who exceed their 2011 payrolls by up to $5 million this year. Companies also would be able to deduct the entire cost of major new property and equipment purchases this year; currently companies may only deduct half the amount in a single year.

Republicans opposed to the measure don’t like its narrow focus on relief for smaller businesses, but Democrats argue that the targeted cuts are needed to spur broader job creation."

Yeah, I want to deduct everything this year when my tax rate is less than it will be next year. If I know taxes are going up, I am more likely to defer investment in my business as the tax increase comes closer to fact. I am stupid if I make an expenditure in December at a 35% tax rate if January will be taxed at 43% (assuming it can be deferred).

I am sorry my "ignorance" is so off-putting. You can continue living in an economic fantasy land where we would all be living Grapes of Wrath right now without Obama saving us from calamity. I would say ours was a liquidity crisis but the intricacies of that statement would only make sense to someone as ignorant as me.

If I may ask an ignorant question - What's your student loan interest rate by the way?