Police State USA

[drayer54]

There are plenty of people of pale that have been on the wrong side of policing. However, those stories rarely make it past the local news circuit. I’ve seen several examples here where I live over the past year or so.

Until we raid a Nordstroms to avenge it, this will continue to get overlooked.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Nobody is more disappointed that the cops were black than those in the media.

 

[GoIrish41]

It is absolutely crazy what many police officers have to deal with day in and day out, lots of similarities to a soldier in the heat of war. There is no way that the experiences don’t cloud their thought processes resulting in ”bad apples”.

Except soldiers can’t quit and take a different job. Cops can. If they can’t handle the work, there are many, many places hiring.

 

[drayer54]

Nobody is more disappointed that the cops were black than those in the media.

and that ambulance chaser Crump.

 

[drayer54]

Except soldiers can’t quit and take a different job. Cops can. If they can’t handle the work, there are many, many places hiring.

Soldiers don’t deal with what Cops do. Cops are consistently in the heat. Soldiers get to step back and have far more mental health resources available.

 

[irishff1014]

I read today that Memphis Fire has fired 3 over this incident. All they are saying is they violated policy. Should be interesting to see this when they actually give info. But 2 of the 3 were black and one of those 2 was a woman.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

It was also stated that the City of Memphis relaxed their hiring standards back in 2018. This is happening in many jurisdictions because it is getting harder and harder to recruit qualified candidates to be police officers. Most departments are understaffed, sometimes to a high degree. I can understand why potential candidates might not be interested based upon on all the negative light shining on the occupation. It is likely this will result in a less skilled police force which is exactly the opposite of what is needed. Hiring a poorly skilled carpenter and expecting the work product of a highly skilled carpenter is not realistic. Seems like a good possibility this will occur within any occupation, police officers included.

 

[Irish#1]

I can’t believe anyone actually pays attention to Whoopi.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Soldiers don’t deal with what Cops do. Cops are consistently in the heat. Soldiers get to step back and have far more mental health resources available.

Wut?

 

[GoIrish41]

Soldiers don’t deal with what Cops do. Cops are consistently in the heat. Soldiers get to step back and have far more mental health resources available.

Did you actually read that before you posted? Maybe they should get a job at WalMart or Applebees. Nobody is making anyone be a cop, or remain a cop.

 

[irishff1014]

It was also stated that the City of Memphis relaxed their hiring standards back in 2018. This is happening in many jurisdictions because it is getting harder and harder to recruit qualified candidates to be police officers. Most departments are understaffed, sometimes to a high degree. I can understand why potential candidates might not be interested based upon on all the negative light shining on the occupation. It is likely this will result in a less skilled police force which is exactly the opposite of what is needed. Hiring a poorly skilled carpenter and expecting the work product of a highly skilled carpenter is not realistic. Seems like a good possibility this will occur within any occupation, police officers included.

Because of the bullshit the dumbasses in DC are requiring and not wanting them to do.

 

[drayer54]

Did you actually read that before you posted? Maybe they should get a job at WalMart or Applebees. Nobody is making anyone be a cop, or remain a cop.

Cops deal with the scum of the earth- domestics, robbers, crap like that all of the time.

Soldiers are either in action or not. Even when they are, it’s typically surrounded by other soldiers. Yes, you can’t just exit and quit. By my third deployment, i would have happily resigned.

The two jobs aren’t that comparable.

 

[GoIrish41]

Cops deal with the scum of the earth- domestics, robbers, crap like that all of the time.

Soldiers are either in action or not. Even when they are, it’s typically surrounded by other soldiers. Yes, you can’t just exit and quit. By my third deployment, i would have happily resigned.

The two jobs aren’t that comparable.

Then why are you comparing them? I’m not. My point is that being a cop is 100% a volunteer gig.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Looks like some communication fixes are in order for the Galveston PD…..lucky no one was seriously injured. Glad to hear they will fix the damage at the Rios’ home.

 

[irishtrooper]

Cops deal with the scum of the earth- domestics, robbers, crap like that all of the time.

Soldiers are either in action or not. Even when they are, it’s typically surrounded by other soldiers. Yes, you can’t just exit and quit. By my third deployment, i would have happily resigned.

The two jobs aren’t that comparable.

Honestly it’s the hatred and dislike of all or mostly all that are police that is tough. Feeling isolated from the people you swear to protect that HATE you. I’ve seen people on this board personally attack others literally just for being ”a dumb cop”. It’s difficult dealing with crimes against children, particularly when convictions get actual, active child porn distributors no jail time and simply probation. A probation system that actively discourages any probation violations being charged. It’s so broken as society has over corrected due to a few very high profile problems.

It’s quite unique how all police get painted with a broad brush, when very few are legitimately charged with any wrongdoing. I’m not naive enough to believe police-haters will ever go away, but hopefully the pendulum swings back a little. Hiring good, decent people with a clean background, good physical fitness, polygraph exam passage, psychological testing, and passing a rigorous months long academy only to literally (and figuratively) be spit on is very difficult. Nobody is forcing anybody to be police, and many aren’t expecting special treatment. However just quitting, when it’s who you are isn’t very easy. Many see it as a calling and selling insurance or being a plumber isn’t the same.

Can’t wait for the vitriol from the same handful of posters on this board that are not exactly fans of law enforcement

 

[SeekNDestroy]

Honestly it’s the hatred and dislike of all or mostly all that are police that is tough. Feeling isolated from the people you swear to protect that HATE you. I’ve seen people on this board personally attack others literally just for being ”a dumb cop”. It’s difficult dealing with crimes against children, particularly when convictions get actual, active child porn distributors no jail time and simply probation. A probation system that actively discourages any probation violations being charged. It’s so broken as society has over corrected due to a few very high profile problems.

It’s quite unique how all police get painted with a broad brush, when very few are legitimately charged with any wrongdoing. I’m not naive enough to believe police-haters will ever go away, but hopefully the pendulum swings back a little. Hiring good, decent people with a clean background, good physical fitness, polygraph exam passage, psychological testing, and passing a rigorous months long academy only to literally (and figuratively) be spit on is very difficult. Nobody is forcing anybody to be police, and many aren’t expecting special treatment. However just quitting, when it’s who you are isn’t very easy. Many see it as a calling and selling insurance or being a plumber isn’t the same.

Can’t wait for the vitriol from the same handful of posters on this board that are not exactly fans of law enforcement

Why do you think people hate cops? I know why I hate cops, but I’m interested in why you think so many people hate the police.

 

[GATTACA!]

Like that fat fuck was getting in through a window.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Like that fat fuck was getting in through a window.

Nope but with a running start, he could break down a door……if it was a downhill run and if he could run.

 

[INLaw]

Why do you think people hate cops? I know why I hate cops, but I’m interested in why you think so many people hate the police.

As a common law abiding citizen, for me its traffic enforcement. I drive between 75k-100k miles a year. Daily I watch cops pass over double yellows, speed through school zones, and tailgate soccer moms in minivans. If you have an emergency or a call turn your lights on. Then I have to duck and dodge through speed traps where the most dangerous thing on the highway is forcing normal cars to jam over into other lanes to avoid the people they pulled over. The guy doing 5 10 15 20 over I can watch out for. I can see him coming in the rearview and pull over. What I can not do is deal with someone pulled over on I 65 where it is two lanes over a hill and now semi driver risks his license for not getting over and it’s my death if I do not see it in time and slam on my brakes. With my amount of driving I have had many flat tires and traffic emergencies and never had one assist me. Politically I am kind of forced to hooray thin blue line etc etc, but as a not a criminal and just someone driving for a living, police are my biggest threat/hassle. If you have to hide to catch speeders or be in unmarked cars than you are not serving anything. In fact that pretty much just makes your traffic stops piracy.

 

[IrishLax]

Why do you think people hate cops? I know why I hate cops, but I’m interested in why you think so many people hate the police.

I started this thread 8 years ago because it was becoming apparent (mainly due to how filming seemingly overnight became ubiquitous) that there is a massive problem with police accountability. This isn't about "hate" or anything personal to me, it was just becoming clear that there was a problem with a group that operates in the space of public trust and that something needed to be done. Cops were all of a sudden getting caught on camera doing all kinds of crazy, criminal, or abusive shit and there was a pattern of them getting away with it until/unless video came out.

To me, it goes way beyond the headline grabbing stuff and racial incidents that cause riots. It is that we have systems in place that cause us to have the most out-of-control policing of any western country. That's a fact, not bias or any personal opinion. All stats show that they have more shootings, instances of police brutality, instances of criminality, etc. than pretty much any developed western nation... some by orders of magnitude. I'm not naive enough to think that "cleaning up" the police is easy or that having the most ethical, well trained police force would stop isolated incidents of things going wrong. But I would hope that it would help restore trust in the police.

 

[Irish#1]

Then why are you comparing them? I’m not. My point is that being a cop is 100% a volunteer gig.

Did he say it wasn't? It isn't that easy to simply quit and do something else for a living unless when you have a family to support. We've had some on here talk about the police becoming more like the military with swat teams and military type gear they use. As Trooper said, the police that are doing the stupid crap are a very small percentage of the total number of officers out there. Those of us that aren't police can't truly appreciate the crap they have to put up with.

I'm all for police reform as it pertains to better candidates, regular counseling and an independent review board. Maybe if we paid them better, we'd see better candidates.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I started this thread 8 years ago because it was becoming apparent (mainly due to how filming seemingly overnight became ubiquitous) that there is a massive problem with police accountability. This isn't about "hate" or anything personal to me, it was just becoming clear that there was a problem with a group that operates in the space of public trust and that something needed to be done. Cops were all of a sudden getting caught on camera doing all kinds of crazy, criminal, or abusive shit and there was a pattern of them getting away with it until/unless video came out.

To me, it goes way beyond the headline grabbing stuff and racial incidents that cause riots. It is that we have systems in place that cause us to have the most out-of-control policing of any western country. That's a fact, not bias or any personal opinion. All stats show that they have more shootings, instances of police brutality, instances of criminality, etc. than pretty much any developed western nation... some by orders of magnitude. I'm not naive enough to think that "cleaning up" the police is easy or that having the most ethical, well trained police force would stop isolated incidents of things going wrong. But I would hope that it would help restore trust in the police.

100% where I’m at. The state of police hood in this country is antagonistic to the people they serve and militaristic on execution of their duties when it should not be. This culture is systemic regardless of race or precinct. That being said there are specific populations in this country that are way overpoliced and profiled and subject to harsher penalties than other portions of the population.

 

[irishtrooper]

Saying the police are antagonistic against those who serve is exactly the attitude that anti police folks seem to have. Broad brush and such. Everyone is less than perfect every day, but to insinuate police come to work just to be antagonistic against the public is ridiculous. It’s too difficult a job for too little money for that to be true. I will say a couple bad ones likely have an attitude like that and that’s terrible.

NOBODY dislikes crooked police more than good police. Good police are the ones carrying the issues after the wrongdoing. As far as the guy that hates traffic enforcement, I’m with you on police not obeying the laws they enforce. I have conversations frequently about how bad it looks to the public when rule enforcers aren’t rule followers. I’m not in agreement about the hiding thing…Hiding in an unmarked car or a U turn doesn’t negate the speeding violation. Police are trained (most anyway) on where to safely pull over a vehicle that gives other motorists time to observe and change lanes. If they’re doing that in a bad spot, their training should be better. I agree that would be frustrating, not to mention dangerous for all involved.

Getting into details about the police hate is a fool’s errand though. I’m not going bang my head against the wall trying to convince those who have made up their mind. I’ve never hurt anyone that hasn’t tried to kill/assault me and I’ve talked people down from potential assaultive behavior. Pulling a weapon on someone is rare and not something nearly all police ever want to do. I’ve seen many cases where using a firearm would be completely justified, however they didn’t.

It’s difficult to convey what it’s like being spit on for wearing a uniform, distrusted due to your profession, doxxed by sovereign citizens, sued for doing your job, having a social media attack campaign levied against you for writing a traffic ticket for running a red light (an officer is currently dealing with this now- not to mention his wife, hearing threats to ram his car and shoot him in the comments!) , having false accusations brought continuously against you , etc


As far as false accusations, it happens constantly. Literally dozens for every one that is legit. Claims are made, investigation commences and the body cam footage directly refutes the claim/allegation. Almost 100% of the time the agency refuses to enforce the laws against filing a false statement for the fabricated allegation. It’s easier to just let it go. Newspaper and media sensationalize incidents or accusations against police and even though it’s nearly all provably false, no pushback occurs. There’s no defending of the officer’s reputation. This happened when an attorney threw several allegations in the paper (to help undermine credibility for his client on a separate case) and each allegation was fully looked into, proven false by those the attorney claimed to have as sources. Their story directly contradicted the attorney’s story and nothing. No published account to clear that officer in the media. That story still gets brought up 5 years later and it was almost all complete bull crap. This is far too common.

A local paper ran an article publishing all discipline records for an agency dating back over a dozen years. The implication was that it was covered up. The officer had been punished and this was a headline grabbing tactic. No context was given, just the charge and punishment. I get that scrutiny comes with the job, taxpayers and such….Most of the
published records were for inadequate job performance or minor property damage accidents from years ago. I don’t think teachers would enjoy their records being published (I mean they’re entrusted with our children and funded by tax dollars), the politicians coming up with this stuff don’t enjoy this accountability and scrutiny. This seems targeted for just one profession. It’s almost like some want to keep people from the field of law enforcement, I mean who would sign up with the headaches? It has worked too, as those signing up is down significantly- which leads to to relaxing of standards - which leads to iffy candidates (or outright bad) - which leads to people saying “Ah, see the police are awful, I told you”

The job is set up for dislike. Nobody enjoys getting arrested or getting ticket. However it is necessary, even if it isn’t done properly to the liking of some in this board. I’m surprised he hasn’t seen any help with a flat/etc. I’ve personally done it many many times and have seen it done by police quite a bit as well. I personally encourage that type of customer service.

 

[drayer54]

100% where I’m at. The state of police hood in this country is antagonistic to the people they serve and militaristic on execution of their duties when it should not be. This culture is systemic regardless of race or precinct. That being said there are specific populations in this country that are way overpoliced and profiled and subject to harsher penalties than other portions of the population.

This is the mindset that moves towards bail relief, reduced prosecution/sentencing, and more crime. This is the justice mentality that is currently killing people. We need to police the areas where crime is happening the hardest and much harder than now.

Militaristic on duties? Yikes. You run into a known criminals home loaded with illegal weapons and people with no regard for the law.

The out of control police thing is also insane to me. Instances vs systemic.

 

[TorontoGold]

This is the mindset that moves towards bail relief, reduced prosecution/sentencing, and more crime. This is the justice mentality that is currently killing people. We need to police the areas where crime is happening the hardest and much harder than now.

Militaristic on duties? Yikes. You run into a known criminals home loaded with illegal weapons and people with no regard for the law.

The out of control police thing is also insane to me. Instances vs systemic.

Most prisoners per capita by country 2025| Statista

El Salvador struggles with high levels of violent crime, reflected in the fact that it has the largest prison population per capita worldwide.

www.statista.com

I mean, what are you even saying? More jails, more people in prison? Who knows what the solution is but throwing more people in jail is so far at the bottom of the barrel you'd get splinters.

 

[Irish#1]

100% where I’m at. The state of police hood in this country is antagonistic to the people they serve and militaristic on execution of their duties when it should not be. This culture is systemic regardless of race or precinct. That being said there are specific populations in this country that are way overpoliced and profiled and subject to harsher penalties than other portions of the population.

Areas that are over policed as you say, is due to those areas having the highest crime rates. Until other measures are taken to fix that, what do you think the police should do?

 

[GATTACA!]

Start taking the large settlements when cops fuck up out of the police unions pensions instead of tax payer dollars (I know it’s all technically tax payer dollars) and I bet a lot of the bad cops would actually start being weeded out. How many times do you hear about a cop being fired for doing something wrong and immediately getting hired in a different city? If these bad cops actions were actually hurting the rest of the forces pocketbooks they’d stop protecting them and bad cops would be unhirable.

In a similar vein we could require cops to carry huge amounts of insurance to operate like a doctor. If you fuck up and beat someone or do some other illegal shit that the insurance has to pay out for you would effectively be forced to find a new profession. Your premium would be more than your salary.

 

[irishtrooper]

Start taking the large settlements when cops fuck up out of the police unions pensions instead of tax payer dollars (I know it’s all technically tax payer dollars) and I bet a lot of the bad cops would actually start being weeded out. How many times do you hear about a cop being fired for doing something wrong and immediately getting hired in a different city? If these bad cops actions were actually hurting the rest of the forces pocketbooks they’d stop protecting them.

I wouldn’t be opposed to criminal conduct leading to pension loss. Possibly a slippery slope for a general “f up” though. There are politicians IN JAIL that got pension payments. This is being worked on, but it’s tough with unions. Fired or “constructive terminations” (forced retirement due to misconduct) should be an automatic disqualification to hold another job in the field. Not to forgive it, because I agree with you - but chasing away good candidates is what leads to a shallow hiring pool. Defund advocates and political headwinds lead smaller/less funded agencies to scramble for the leftovers just to provide basic coverage/services. This is a problem that has existed for a long time and has been exacerbated recently

 

[ab2cmiller]

I definitely support you irishtrooper. In many ways it's a thankless job that comes with a lot of scrutiny and hate.

I am curious on your take "NOBODY dislikes crooked police more than good police" as it relates to how can the bad cops be weeded out.

Do the police unions, in the process of representing all members, make it almost impossible to get rid of the bad cops?

Does the low staffing/recruiting numbers make it more likely to hang on to a borderline cop because staffing issues creates a sense of desperation and some bad cops are given the benefit of the doubt.