Playoff Picture

Bluto

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Clemson was always a punching bag pre Dabo. They lost to S Carolina every year. Nothing special.

Think USC with Carroll. The team was a juggernaut. Carroll left and the team flirts with good but overall very average. Just like Clemson will be when Dabo leaves.

Clemson for the first six years or so of Dabo’s career lost most of their big games and usually had an annual wtf loss to the likes of Georgia Tech or Pitt. Around 2014 they went full on bag man, osterine and what ever it takes to get over the hump and now here we sit.
 
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phillyirish

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Looking back, Clemson rose to prominence in 2015-2016 behind Deshaun Watson. For some reason I thought he was a consensus top 5 recruit, but he was actually the composite #42 overall. It all comes down to Buchner. If he is the elite QB that we have been missing for so long, then we’re not that far away. If he’s a bust or just a Golson type player, than that puts us another at least 2 years behind since I highly doubt the guy we get in ‘22 is gonna be a game changer.

Careful though, that is not just all about a QB or high powered offense. UNC’s offense is legit but they wouldn’t have a shot against the top 4 teams this year. And Oklahoma’s run of QB success has ended with playoff losses in the first round by 6, 11, and 35 points.

Those Clemson teams that finished runner up and then CFP champions weren’t as loaded as the current Clemson team. Instead, they were ranked around 9/10 in total team recruiting talent by 247, or right where we are now.
 

GATTACA!

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Looking back, Clemson rose to prominence in 2015-2016 behind Deshaun Watson. For some reason I thought he was a consensus top 5 recruit, but he was actually the composite #42 overall. It all comes down to Buchner. If he is the elite QB that we have been missing for so long, then we’re not that far away. If he’s a bust or just a Golson type player, than that puts us another at least 2 years behind since I highly doubt the guy we get in ‘22 is gonna be a game changer.

Careful though, that is not just all about a QB or high powered offense. UNC’s offense is legit but they wouldn’t have a shot against the top 4 teams this year. And Oklahoma’s run of QB success has ended with playoff losses in the first round by 6, 11, and 35 points.

Those Clemson teams that finished runner up and then CFP champions weren’t as loaded as the current Clemson team. Instead, they were ranked around 9/10 in total team recruiting talent by 247, or right where we are now.

Even if Buchner is the guy we hope he is, I highly doubt he will be the guy in 2021.

Looking quickly at a few lists I wonder if ND could make transferring work for someone like a Dylan McCaffrey or Grayson McCall?
 

rtrn2glory

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Florida costs themselves a playoff chance losing to lsu last week. They're the fourth best team... Which this year as always means jack shit
 

rtrn2glory

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And I'll just say if they put us in vs Bama.... Take whatever points Vegas is giving because it will be a blood bath
 

notredomer23

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Florida costs themselves a playoff chance losing to lsu last week. They're the fourth best team... Which this year as always means jack shit

No they are not. LSU is terrible. Texas A&M beat them. They didn’t really dominate anyone this year besides Georgia (pre JT Daniels) because of how bad their defense is. An elite offense will keep you in any game but ultimately you need the defense to make stops.
 

EifertPower

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College Football Playoff system is broke. It just seems that the 4-team playoff actually is less fair and less fun the 2-team playoff. Semifinal games arent competitive or interesting.

Also conference championship games also have diluted the playoffs. They only exist for financial reasons. The SEC championship and ACC championship game would have had a lot more intrigue if the winner was in and the loser was out.

Also, what's the point of having teams like Cincinatti and Coastal Carolina teased like they ever have a chance of making it. I agree that they arent one of the 4 best teams but it isn't their fault they didnt play tougher competition.

College Football needs to reform the entire system.
 

IrishFanJMercy

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In all honesty is much rather play Bama than Clemson again. Clemson has seen us twice now. I think we can score on bama the only issue is idk how we stop
Their offense theyll probally put 45-50 points on us.
 

tko

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Since the committee apparently doesn't like rematches, won't they have to consider moving TAMU to 3 if they're putting them in?
 

tko

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Committee: We have to put OSU in because of their legacy, and the 4th team is going to get obliterated no matter what by Alabama. We can't make a case for anyone else, so let's watch ND be sacrificial lambs again.
 

NDRock

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Committee: We have to put OSU in because of their legacy, and the 4th team is going to get obliterated no matter what by Alabama. We can't make a case for anyone else, so let's watch ND be sacrificial lambs again.

Don’t forget ND brings rating$
 

tko

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In all seriousness, you want your program to be in these matchups. Think about how hard these kids work. This is what they play for. I know we're jaded because of past performances in these types of game, however, this team has earned it and they want to compete their asses off and let the chips fall where they may.
 

Bishop2b5

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OK, you all can hate on me the next couple of weeks. :) It was 8 years ago this month that I dropped into IE just to see what fans of the other school thought about our upcoming NC game. I ended up staying and making friends over the years.

It'll be great to see the two bluest of the blue-blood programs in CFB go at each other in an important game. It's an honor to be facing you guys again.
 

IrishSteelhead

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OK, you all can hate on me the next couple of weeks. :) It was 8 years ago this month that I dropped into IE just to see what fans of the other school thought about our upcoming NC game. I ended up staying and making friends over the years.

It'll be great to see the two bluest of the blue-blood programs in CFB go at each other in an important game. It's an honor to be facing you guys again.


I personally have always valued your contributions to the site. Glad you stuck around. Cheers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tussin

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Stew Mandel wrote a piece over at The Athletic about how the playoff sucks ballz:

Dear college football,

Before I begin, you should know I’m a bowl guy at heart. As I write this sitting in my home office, I can turn to my left and see a framed print of the 1949 Rose Bowl game program. Behind me is a mammoth “History of the Bowls” coffee table book.

Also behind me is a stack of copies of a book explaining the College Football Playoff — a book I wrote. That’s right, I was so excited about the move from the BCS to the CFP in 2014 I decided to write a book about it. That no one actually read it is beside the point. Just wanted to establish my bona fides before I get to the next part.

I’m writing to tell you I’m now embarrassed by the same postseason I long embraced. You’ve got a real problem on your hands, folks, and you need to address it. Quickly. Don’t form a task force to review meeting notes of a committee assigned to review the postseason structure. Here’s the evaluation: BROKEN!

Do you know there is a 2-8 team playing in one of your bowl games this year? One so bad it already fired one coach and hired another? I know, it’s a pandemic, we’re loosening the rules a bit, but still … 2-8? And do you know who gets the honor of facing that 2-8 South Carolina team in the Gasparilla Bowl? Only one of the sport’s 10 conference champions, UAB. Nice reward, fellas. What’s in the gift bag, a screwdriver and some nails?

Also, do you know that Army finished 9-2 this year and will NOT get to go to a bowl game? You guys designed a system so patriotic it includes both the MILITARY and the ARMED FORCES bowls, but when teams started opting out and bowls started getting canceled, somehow the United States Military Academy got hung out to dry. I know, you’re bound to contracts. It’s always those pesky contracts. But when a 9-2 military academy gets left out and a bunch of 2-8 or 3-7 teams get in, you may want to write up some new contracts that don’t, you know, make a mockery of your entire enterprise.

But of course, you’ve got far more pressing issues on your hands than the fate of the Independence Bowl. You’ve got a pair of Playoff semifinal bowls coming up in less than two weeks. One of them doesn’t have a name yet, because you decided at 10:30 p.m. Saturday night you didn’t want to play it at the Rose Bowl this year. Nice work on that press release, by the way, citing the “growing number of COVID-19 cases in Southern California,” as if you haven’t been flying your student-athletes in and out of COVID hot spots for the past four months. Did “We can at least salvage some gate revenue if it’s in Dallas” get workshopped, or no?

Of more concern for football fans, the opening point spread on that game between No. 1 Alabama and No. 4 Notre Dame was 19.5 points. That would normally be a sign that your selection committee picked the wrong team, but in fact, based on the criteria you yourselves established, they followed it exactly right. It’s not your fault there simply aren’t four “elite” teams this season. Arguably there aren’t three, given one of your other semifinalists, Ohio State, has won all of six (6) games.

The problem as I see it is that you’ve inadvertently created a highly exclusionary event that with each passing year alienates another segment of the population. Which is not ideal when someone (ESPN) is paying you $7.3 BILLION dollars to air said event.

The first year in 2014 was GREAT. Alabama with Derrick Henry and Amari Cooper, Ohio State with Ezekiel Elliott and Joey Bosa, Florida State with Jameis Winston and Oregon with Marcus Mariota. Four captivating teams from four different regions of the country. The No. 4-seeded Buckeyes went on an improbable title run with their third-string quarterback. The first year the sport ever had a Playoff, and bam it delivered!

How could you have known what would happen shortly thereafter? That Alabama and Clemson would be one more win apiece from playing each other for the fifth time in six Playoffs. That every year of the thing so far would include either or both Ohio State and Oklahoma. That the Pac-12 would vanish so far from the picture that ESPN’s analysts did not even mention it for the first time until two-and-a-half hours into Sunday’s selection show. And those pesky little nuisances from the Group of 5 would keep producing genuinely good football teams like Cincinnati for the committee to summarily dismiss.

The cumulative effect of all this is as follows:

• Large segments of the viewing public — the entire West Coast, all the Big Ten fan bases outside of Ohio State, all of the Big 12 fan bases outside of Oklahoma, and every fan of a Group of 5 team — has increasingly little reason to be invested in the season-long Playoff race.

• Whereas in the past, many of those fan bases would still be excited to watch their team play in a bowl game, the combination of star players opting out, a selection process devoid of merit and now this year’s rash of teams blowing them off entirely (albeit for understandable reasons) has devalued the entire system.

• Which puts the entire focus of the sport on those three Playoff games. But unfortunately, the more casual college football-viewing audience has little interest in watching Alabama or Clemson streamroll Notre Dame again, or play each other for the umpteenth time. It’s no coincidence ESPN has never come close to matching the mammoth 30.2 million average viewers of that first year. (Last season’s were nearly 30 percent lower.)

The first and most obvious fix will be something I’ve long resisted: Expanding the Playoff, with automatic bids for conference champions. Unlike when you went from two teams to four, this will have almost nothing to do with actually determining the national champion. The teams with the best coaches and the best players — i.e. Alabama and Clemson — will still win the whole thing.

But so many more teams and fans will feel like they’re part of the main event. Pac-12 coaches and players will go into the season knowing they control their Playoff destiny. Provided you see it fit to include an automatic Group of 5 berth — which, if you don’t, I’m sure an antitrust court would be happy to include for you — Cincinnati will know that if it goes 9-0 and fields the No. 1 defense in the country, it won’t matter whether the committee refuses to drop a three-loss SEC team beneath it.

And fans will dig the opportunity to watch more compelling games in December and early January. Sure, there may be some semifinal blowouts, just like there have been to this point, but a Florida-Oklahoma quarterfinal will draw a lot more eyeballs than the coming Florida-Oklahoma Cotton Bowl in which both teams’ best NFL prospects will inevitably opt out. (Florida tight end Kyle Pitts has already.)

Again — it pains me to write that. I love bowl games. I love all the weird events around them. I love seeing David Shaw in a Sun Bowl sombrero and Chris Petersen posing with an Elvis impersonator at the Vegas Bowl. But I can also read a room. People just don’t care about these the way they once did.

And by the way, that includes the coaches. I’m sure it was quite jarring for the industry last week to hear Brian Kelly spend five minutes basically dumping all over the sport’s most prestigious bowl. Parents or no parents in the stands, the Rose Bowl has long been a Mecca for potential participants, but there was Kelly ranting about “worshipping the ashes of tradition.” (Rich, by the way, coming from a school whose entire identity is rooted in the ashes of tradition, but I digress.)

In our post-vaccine world, the Rose Bowl will return to Pasadena next year, and Army won’t have to worry about the Independence Bowl getting canceled, but don’t kid yourselves into thinking Bowl Season will go back to normal. The pandemic has exposed how unessential many of these games are to today’s coaches/players/fans.

The four-team CFP was always going to be a bridge between the old bowl system and the inevitable creep toward a full-fledged Playoff. It wasn’t supposed to happen until the end of the current contract in 2026. But folks, I’m telling you, you need to accelerate those plans.

Don’t subject the entire sport to another five years of increasing malaise and apathy. Don’t keep telling the Armys of the world they’re less important than the 13th-best SEC team.

Blow up the postseason as we know it and start a new one where more teams feel invested, more games matter, and December feels more like an acceptance celebration and less like a rejection letter.
 

phork

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The playoff sucks because there are 2 teams that have been dominating it. I don't count count OSU either. Kirby Smart is under performing otherwise it'd be 3.

It's not hard to equate those programs where a lot of 5 stars land. 5 stars on the 2 deep, 3 deep etc.
 

tussin

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The playoff sucks because there are 2 teams that have been dominating it. I don't count count OSU either. Kirby Smart is under performing otherwise it'd be 3.

It's not hard to equate those programs where a lot of 5 stars land. 5 stars on the 2 deep, 3 deep etc.

Agree, there's much less parity these days. But I think that the current structure of the playoff exacerbates the problem. At first glance, the logical solution is to expand the playoff to give more schools a shot at glory. But it's hard to do that without devaluing the regular season even more and rendering conference championships completely meaningless.

These structural issues, combined with the commercialization and influx of big money into the sport, make it hard to see a future where the "magic" of college football returns. 1984 BYU will never happen again (which you can argue is a good thing)... but, it's hard to envision programs like Colorado or GTech ever fielding nationally competitive teams again.

For reference:
1980s -- 7 schools claimed titles
1990s -- 10 schools claimed titles
2000s -- 8 schools claimed titles
2010s -- 6 schools claimed titles
 

InKellyWeTrust

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The playoff sucks because there are 2 teams that have been dominating it. I don't count count OSU either. Kirby Smart is under performing otherwise it'd be 3.

It's not hard to equate those programs where a lot of 5 stars land. 5 stars on the 2 deep, 3 deep etc.

I've said this before but each passing season solidifies my perspective. For college football to be great again we need more traditional powerhouse teams thriving concurrently. Right now almost all the 5* talent (and high 4* frankly) is consolidated to 4 teams - Bama (12 total 5* on roster), Clemson (11), OSU (14), and Georgia (16). This is unhealthy for a sport. We need Texas, USC, Oregon, FSU, Miami, Penn St, and (gross) Michigan to get their **** together. If even 3-4 of those teams are able to win and recruit at a bit higher level this would help to level the playing field by spreading around the high end talent to more teams. I think we are in the category of "pulling our weight" along with Oklahoma, Florida, LSU, TAMU. Just think if Bama, Clemson, and OSU each had 4 less 5* on their current roster, just one per year pulled away by a high performing program closer to home. It would make everything more competitive.
 

NDRock

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Agree, there's much less parity these days. But I think that the current structure of the playoff exacerbates the problem. At first glance, the logical solution is to expand the playoff to give more schools a shot at glory. But it's hard to do that without devaluing the regular season even more and rendering conference championships completely meaningless.

These structural issues, combined with the commercialization and influx of big money into the sport, make it hard to see a future where the "magic" of college football returns. 1984 BYU will never happen again (which you can argue is a good thing)... but, it's hard to envision programs like Colorado or GTech ever fielding nationally competitive teams again.

For reference:
1980s -- 7 schools claimed titles
1990s -- 10 schools claimed titles
2000s -- 8 schools claimed titles
2010s -- 6 schools claimed titles

I read an article about how many schools reached #1 in each decade. Think the heyday of parity was the 80’s. It’s gotten worse since. No surprise.
 

InKellyWeTrust

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Agree, there's much less parity these days. But I think that the current structure of the playoff exacerbates the problem. At first glance, the logical solution is to expand the playoff to give more schools a shot at glory. But it's hard to do that without devaluing the regular season even more and rendering conference championships completely meaningless.

These structural issues, combined with the commercialization and influx of big money into the sport, make it hard to see a future where the "magic" of college football returns. 1984 BYU will never happen again (which you can argue is a good thing)... but, it's hard to envision programs like Colorado or GTech ever fielding nationally competitive teams again.

For reference:
1980s -- 7 schools claimed titles
1990s -- 10 schools claimed titles
2000s -- 8 schools claimed titles
2010s -- 6 schools claimed titles

To be fair, you could have said that about Clemson pre 2013-2014 or Alabama pre 2008.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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I've said this before but each passing season solidifies my perspective. For college football to be great again we need more traditional powerhouse teams thriving concurrently. Right now almost all the 5* talent (and high 4* frankly) is consolidated to 4 teams - Bama (12 total 5* on roster), Clemson (11), OSU (14), and Georgia (16). This is unhealthy for a sport. We need Texas, USC, Oregon, FSU, Miami, Penn St, and (gross) Michigan to get their **** together. If even 3-4 of those teams are able to win and recruit at a bit higher level this would help to level the playing field by spreading around the high end talent to more teams. I think we are in the category of "pulling our weight" along with Oklahoma, Florida, LSU, TAMU. Just think if Bama, Clemson, and OSU each had 4 less 5* on their current roster, just one per year pulled away by a high performing program closer to home. It would make everything more competitive.

I'm just not sure that's likely to happen in today's recruiting world. It's easier than ever for schools to be informed and recruit on a national level. It's easier than ever for people to become fans of a more successful school on the other side of the country.

Guys who see CFB as their 3 year NFL internship will naturally congregate and the pull of Local U will continue to diminish over time.
 

InKellyWeTrust

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I'm just not sure that's likely to happen in today's recruiting world. It's easier than ever for schools to be informed and recruit on a national level. It's easier than ever for people to become fans of a more successful school on the other side of the country.

Guys who see CFB as their 3 year NFL internship will naturally congregate and the pull of Local U will continue to diminish over time.

I think it can. We just need something to disrupt the current hierarchy. Sanctions, coaching change, administrative changes...something will inevitably happen to knock a couple of those programs down a notch, and when it does the others need to be ready to pounce.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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I think it can. We just need something to disrupt the current hierarchy. Sanctions, coaching change, administrative changes...something will inevitably happen to knock a couple of those programs down a notch, and when it does the others need to be ready to pounce.

Yeah but it feels like we would just be swapping Texas for Clemson or USC for Georgia.

Maybe it's the frustrating talking.
 
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