Paterno Fired

[dre1919]

I've been following the story and I don't know if I would say the whole thing is Paterno's fault, but it definitely seems like he could have done more to bring things to light...as could all of the PSU brass. Personally, I think they tried to sweep it all under the rug in an attempt to keep the scandal down and get JoePa the victories record. But, I think they need to clean the whole house out and start from scratch...it's a bad mark on the history of PSU.

 

[Ben E.]

i know one thing, i will never hear the words "rythmic clapping" again without vomitting....

 

[OchoShayneO]

You've cleared up nothing. Yes, the GA walked away from the scene. So he is guilty. If he is an eyewitness and tells JoePa this, Joe has a responsibility to go to the authorities, this is not and was not hearsay. If you think the actions of Joe Pa and McQueary were sufficient, well we'll disagree.

If whats come about about Mcquery is true then holy **** dude. I hope that guy has to live a long time with this one.

What does it say in Joe Pa's Operations and Procedure Manual? Did he fulfill his legal obligations?

Can you convict somebody for failing to meet moral obligations?

The part about Sandusky still being able to access the facility throws me off. Why would Joe Pa let this happen? Probably more to the story.

Guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion. If everyone's guilty then let them all burn. But I don't know who is and who isn't right now.

 

[irishff1014]

Like i said earlier this is going to be just like the Ohio State deal. As each week passes we learn more and more Not good.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

If whats come about about Mcquery is true then holy **** dude. I hope that guy has to live a long time with this one.

What does it say in Joe Pa's Operations and Procedure Manual? Did he fulfill his legal obligations?

Can you convict somebody for failing to meet moral obligations?

The part about Sandusky still being able to access the facility throws me off. Why would Joe Pa let this happen? Probably more to the story.

Guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion. If everyone's guilty then let them all burn. But I don't know who is and who isn't right now.

This was from his Grand Jury testimony. Yes, he witnessed Sandusky and the boy naked in the shower.

Who gives a **** what it says in JoePa's Ops Manual. You need a manual to know what the right thing to do is?

Do you personally think Joe Pa did the right thing, fulfilling his moral obligation to a kid that was molested in his football locker room, by someone he had employed and empowered?

In my Opinion, JoePa let this happen because he didn't want the stain of a scandal on his hands. He hoped it would go away, in my opinion. He was wrong.

 

[kmoose]

In my Opinion, JoePa let this happen because he didn't want the stain of a scandal on his hands. He hoped it would go away, in my opinion. He was wrong.

That's a pretty big leap, considering the myriad of other possible explanations.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

That's a pretty big leap, considering the myriad of other possible explanations.

It's my opinion. I'm sure you have one as well.

 

[kmoose]

It's my opinion. I'm sure you have one as well.

I'm not calling you out for being wrong, I'm merely saying that you might not have sufficiently considered all of the other options.

 

[calvegas04]

It's not like JoePa does anything anyways... we all know he has nothing to do with coaching.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I'm not calling you out for being wrong, I'm merely saying that you might not have sufficiently considered all of the other options.

Perhaps, but at this time based on what I've heard, it's my opinion. I believe we will never know the entirety of the story and what motivated Joe to act (or not act as the case may be) the way he did, and I'm not overly concerned with his motivation. I'm just disgusted with the entire story and the inaction that was taken (well beyond Joe) that allowed this monster to prey on victims for years after this incident occured.

 

[OchoShayneO]

This was from his Grand Jury testimony. Yes, he witnessed Sandusky and the boy naked in the shower.

Who gives a **** what it says in JoePa's Ops Manual. You need a manual to know what the right thing to do is?

Do you personally think Joe Pa did the right thing, fulfilling his moral obligation to a kid that was molested in his football locker room, by someone he had employed and empowered?

In my Opinion, JoePa let this happen because he didn't want the stain of a scandal on his hands. He hoped it would go away, in my opinion. He was wrong.

I don't need a manual to know whats right from wrong but yes many people do. That's why they make them. So the court probally gives a whatever the **** means. They probally give lots of ****'s. **********************************.

Personally, * think **** everyone ***** to ***** and *** the *********** finish *** investigations *** then ****** the ****** who *** responsible.

Seems like a Question of Moral Obligation vs Legal Obligation when it comes to Paterno.

I understand how serious the situation is. Its awful and like Millen said adults have a responsibility to protect children. But you cant convict people in the court of public opinion. Someone pointed out the Duke lacrosse thing earlier and while that turned out to be nothing. The more and more that comes out about this the more it seems like yea there is something here. But right now there are too many questions out there that need to be answered.

-The innocent deserve to be protected
-The victims need to be helped and deserve retribution
-The guilty need to be punished

People are paid to find out who each of these people are in situations like this.

 

[kmoose]

Perhaps, but at this time based on what I've heard, it's my opinion. I believe we will never know the entirety of the story and what motivated Joe to act (or not act as the case may be) the way he did, and I'm not overly concerned with his motivation. I'm just disgusted with the entire story and the inaction that was taken (well beyond Joe) that allowed this monster to prey on victims for years after this incident occured.

Don't get me wrong, I am as well. I just think too many people here are overlooking the fact that Paterno reported this incident to two of his superiors who covered it up. THEY are the ones that we should be raging against. Could Paterno have done more? Absolutely! Was it an incredibly difficult position for him to be in? Absolutely!

Story time.......

When I was in the Navy, some of us young sailors went to see the Jerry Garcia Band, at Ventura County Fairgrounds, in SoCal. For those of you who are familiar with Jerry, you'll know that a staple of many of his shows (with or without the rest of the Dead) is certain mind altering substances. I may, or may not, have participated in this tradition, but I can tell you with certainty that one of the guys I was with did. On the way home from the show, this guy started acting really erratic. He thought that he was a vampire, and that we were trying to kill him. We managed to get him back to our other buddy's house(where we were housesitting while this guy and his roommate were off on TAD) ok. This was an off base residence. Once we arrived there, he seemed to calm down..........for about 15 minutes. Then he started getting REALLY violent. He was about 30 seconds away from tearing our buddy's house up. Our initial thought was to tackle him, tie him up, and let the drugs take their course. The problem was that this guy was not a weak guy, and the drugs just made him that much stronger. There were 3 of us, and we couldn't even tackle him, let alone hold him down and tie him up. At that point, we really became concerned. We were afraid that he would seriously damage the house and it's contents, us, or even himself. There was some talk of calling 911, to get some help. We discussed this for about 30 minutes. You can just imagine the implications of a military member getting admitted to a hospital for a drug induced psychotic episode. We even talked about the scrutiny that we would be under, for having been with him. ("If this guy was doing it, what makes us think that the others weren't, as well?") In the end, we called 911, and they came and subdued him and took him to the hospital. It was the right call to make, but remains to this day, the hardest decision I have ever had to make in my life. It's been 20 years, and I still second guess that decision, even though I know it was the right one.

Just some grist for the mill of those who think that Paterno's choice should have been crystal clear. It's easy to look in from the outside and make such judgements. Things become A LOT hazier, when it is your call to make.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I don't need a manual to know whats right from wrong but yes many people do. That's why they make them. So the court probally gives a whatever the **** means. They probally give lots of ****'s. **********************************.

Personally, * think **** everyone ***** to ***** and *** the *********** finish *** investigations *** then ****** the ****** who *** responsible.

Seems like a Question of Moral Obligation vs Legal Obligation when it comes to Paterno.

I understand how serious the situation is. Its awful and like Millen said adults have a responsibility to protect children. But you cant convict people in the court of public opinion. Someone pointed out the Duke lacrosse thing earlier and while that turned out to be nothing. The more and more that comes out about this the more it seems like yea there is something here. But right now there are too many questions out there that need to be answered.

-The innocent deserve to be protected
-The victims need to be helped and deserve retribution
-The guilty need to be punished

People are paid to find out who each of these people are in situations like this.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Yes]

As a Pennsylvanian and someone who has had relatives attend the university, I'm not really sure what to say. I've never supported Penn State's football team, but I've always had respect for them and Mr. Paterno. I'm not so sure about that anymore. Of course, I doubt he was really much of a "head coach" anymore. He probably should have left a few years ago, maybe earlier. It's a shame that this will be how he was remembered.

 

[OchoShayneO]

Thanks for clearing that up.

**** welcome.

 

[tadman95]

I think blame runs top to bottom so JoePa is in this.

If you see a murder, do you call your boss or the police?
If you see a rape, do you call your boss or the police?
etc, etc, etc..........

An entities Policy and Procedures manual don't over rule the law.

From what I'm seeing this evening JoePa is still planning on being there over the long haul? Denial.......

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

I really feel for Penn State fans although its completely different last years death and the horrible media treatment of it kinda made me understand a small bit what they are going through. To have a team you care about so deeply get linked to such a horrible tragedy is awful for fans and students of that school.

 

[ACamp1900]

I figured this would happen. Its a shame that this is how his cocahing career will end.

That's why you get out why the getting is good... I'm not trying to pile on... just stating that the phrase is correct, "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian." In most walks of life, if you stay in one place long enough something will come back to bite you...

now usually it is not going to be something THIS big... or horrid... but yeah...

now unfortunately, this will be a part of Joe Pa's legend no matter what, almost hope he did know and did nothing, because that will prob. be the way this is remembered regardless... perception is reality in cfb... at least if he did have a hand in sweeping it aside he earned a bit of the stigma.

As a parent who worries about this stuff a lot... pretty mad at the whole thing... I know my post is all over the place... but that's where I'm at right now too I suppose

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I really feel for Penn State fans although its completely different last years death and the horrible media treatment of it kinda made me understand a small bit what they are going through. To have a team you care about so deeply get linked to such a horrible tragedy is awful for fans and students of that school.

I don't really give two sh*ts about the fans. My sympathy and compassion goes to the alleged victims and their families. This is bigger than football games.

 

[irishff1014]

I don't really give two sh*ts about the fans. My sympathy and compassion goes to the alleged victims and their families. This is bigger than football games.

I have to agree with this. People don't understand how bad this will mental screw a kid up. The bigger problem with this is that it is happening so much across the country it is becoming an every day thing that a new story of a child being sexually assulted. It is not acceptable.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

I don't really give two sh*ts about the fans. My sympathy and compassion goes to the alleged victims and their families. This is bigger than football games.

your 100% right I just know last year as a fan everytime I read a article on last years horrible death I would read people commenting on my religion and a priest scandal that hit my greater boston area hard. All this because I wanted to find out about the poor kid that died during a horrible wind storm at my favorite school. So I do feel a small amount of sympathy for fans of the program who now are being linked to this filth.

 

[Pachuco]

I am no guy fawning all over Paterno.Yes,he has been a great coach for a long time.
However, yes,Paterno DOES have superiors. Several actually. If you need me to run down the list,it's the same at EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL. NO coach is above his superiors.

As far as I can tell, he found out the information, and then went directly to his Athletic Director and President to tell them what he was TOLD. Paterno did not physically see anything happen as far as we know right now. As far as JoePa goes, you cant fire someone based off of a rumor that a player told you....that leads you down a long road of wrongful termination lawsuits.
He went to his superiors and told them what he heard, that way his superiors could do their job,investigate the matter, and take action. That's relatively cut and dry. You do that with ANY job when a matter like this happens.

I understand your logic. However, when dealing with a situation as potentially grave as this, you must follow up. You have a moral obligation to seek a resolution from the bottom up. If the facts aren't made clear and actions not taken in light of what's revealed, then it's absolutely necessary to go above your superiors. Your integrity is on the line. More importantly, people's lives are at stake. That's the bottom line.

 

[11cracker11]

Has anyone thought of the scene from Boogie Nights when Burt Reynolds goes and sees his former business partner, the Colonel, in jail? Joe Pa is Burt of course and Sandusky is the Colonel...

 

[micks60]

1. I clearly said that it looks like Paterno made the wrong decision.

2. You're boiling it down to black and white, when the situation is clearly gray. It's people with that attitude who enable others with a vendetta to ruin people's lives. A mere accusation of child molestation follows a person around forever. If you were an assistant coach, and some GA had a grudge against you, you're saying that they could just go to the coach, make an accusation, and he is supposed to just call the police? He can ruin your life that easily? More power to you. I don't see it as that black and white.

In something as serious as this you call the police and let them sort it out. Do you think it is better to sit on his hands andmpass the responsibility to others? Look where that has gotten us.

 

[ohara831]

All these years, Joe did it the right way. I give him credit for that much. No recruiting scandals. And in this situation, he may have met his legal obligation. But he did not meet his moral obligation. Much like the man who witnessed the shower incident. He should have gone in there and stopped it right away, regardless of the job the offender had at the time. He could have saved that boy from whatever happened, at least from the time it was stopped. And the administration should be cleared out of everyone who had knowledge of this at the time. Their coverup led to who knows how many young boys being done this way by that pervert. I heard a 9th victin came forward a while ago. You know that number will rise.

None of their hands are clean. Very interesting about the District Atty at the time in 2002. Victims mother confronted Sandusky on the phone and the conversation was taped. Supposedly, Sandusky apologized and said he hated what he had done. They took it to the prosecutor who refused to prosecute. Saw an episode of Missing or another show on Discovery ID about the prosecutor as he went missing in 2005, and is presumed dead. Found his car a couple counties over and his laptop in a riverbed. On Missing, or whatever show it was, they never talked of this incident as it was not public knowledge. But when I heard a reporter talking about it, I recalled the episode. Wonder if his conscience started to get to him?

 

[irishff1014]

They also said in one of the articles i read that there are some police officals that are being investigated for cover up aswell.

 

[Woneone]

1. I clearly said that it looks like Paterno made the wrong decision.

2. You're boiling it down to black and white, when the situation is clearly gray. It's people with that attitude who enable others with a vendetta to ruin people's lives. A mere accusation of child molestation follows a person around forever. If you were an assistant coach, and some GA had a grudge against you, you're saying that they could just go to the coach, make an accusation, and he is supposed to just call the police? He can ruin your life that easily? More power to you. I don't see it as that black and white.

Is it really gray? I know, he had not legal obligation to report in Pennsylvania. But it's pretty cut and dry in many situations. There are no shades.

Mandatory Reporters of Child Abuse and Neglect: Summary of State Laws

Approximately 48 States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands designate professions whose members are mandated by law to report child maltreatment.1 Individuals designated as mandatory reporters typically have frequent contact with children. Such individuals may include:

Social workers
Teachers and other school personnel
Physicians and other health-care workers
Mental health professionals
Child care providers
Medical examiners or coroners
Law enforcement officers

And from a "Should JoePa go on just the word of a GA?" question. If he actually didn't fall outside the jurisdiction of Pennsylvania reporters (which I still think he should be held as such), here is the criteria:

The circumstances under which a mandatory reporter must make a report vary from State to State. Typically, a report must be made when the reporter, in his or her official capacity, suspects or has reasons to believe that a child has been abused or neglected. Another standard frequently used is when the reporter has knowledge of, or observes a child being subjected to, conditions that would reasonably result in harm to the child. Permissive reporters follow the same standards when electing to make a report.

Suspects or has reason to believe. You don't need a video of the action occuring, or even to be there first had. In many states, a professional in JoePa's situtation would have been obligated by law to report the issue.

Heck, even in New Jersey, YOU and I would have been bound by law to report it in his situation. That just doesn't seem like a gray area to me, especially considering all of the circumstances..

 

[Pachuco]

I just watched the video on ESPN as Joe Paterno was barraged by reporters. You would have thought they were questioning Regis with all the love he was getting from outside observers.

Penn State Nittany Lions' sex abuse scandal -- Jerry Sandusky was on campus last week, reports say - ESPN

 

[kmoose]

Is it really gray? I know, he had not legal obligation to report in Pennsylvania. But it's pretty cut and dry in many situations. There are no shades.

Mandatory Reporters of Child Abuse and Neglect: Summary of State Laws



And from a "Should JoePa go on just the word of a GA?" question. If he actually didn't fall outside the jurisdiction of Pennsylvania reporters (which I still think he should be held as such), here is the criteria:



Suspects or has reason to believe. You don't need a video of the action occuring, or even to be there first had. In many states, a professional in JoePa's situtation would have been obligated by law to report the issue.

Heck, even in New Jersey, YOU and I would have been bound by law to report it in his situation. That just doesn't seem like a gray area to me, especially considering all of the circumstances..

Yes, it's gray. What do you know about the GA who reported it? If Rush Limbaugh tells you that he saw Barack Obama molesting a little boy, you're telling me that you would just automatically believe it?

Look, I'm not trying to absolve Paterno of anything, here. If he broke the law, he should be prosecuted. At the very least, he should lose his job because his recruiting is done. No parent is going to trust their child to this guy anymore. However.......... I'm not about to characterize him as a scumbag, until I learn more facts about the case. It's entirely possible that he legitimately dismissed the GA as being A) mistaken about what he saw, or B) lying because of some beef with Sandusky. I just don't know.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I just watched the video on ESPN as Joe Paterno was barraged by reporters. You would have thought they were questioning Regis with all the love he was getting from outside observers.

Penn State Nittany Lions' sex abuse scandal -- Jerry Sandusky was on campus last week, reports say - ESPN

After reading that report I am even more sickened. This is going to get a lot worse.