Opinions/Discussions on Guns

[irishpat183]

I have to admit...I LOL'd. I'm a sucker for slapstick sarcasm.

It baffles me how much trust we have in our government......

 

[phgreek]

The big problem I have with registering all firearms is the government has the knowledge of what guns you have. If they were to overstep their boundaries they will know what you have and where they are when they want them.

Another thing why the fixation of only 10 rounds? What do you think it will stop? I can reload all my firearms with magazines rather quickly. The round count will mean the shooters just bring more magazines.

I'm becoming less supportive of the registration thing...trust me. But its because the Fed. refuses to throttle the fringe anti-gun folks who are now victimizing people who are totally legal...Great way to foster healthy debate there fellas...

The 10 round thing...I get it. When a whack job starts shooting...time and again it appears bystanders jump in...it'd be nice to have a 2s break in the shooting to get to him. And yes I know the apparent futility in that. 1) already a kajillion mags out there. 2) even an idiot like me can make my own mag. But the issue is, it seems not to be in the profile of these guys to have the aptitude, desire, or focus to do that. they tend to take whats available, and go. So, to my feeble mind, while unlikely to initially impact things, eventually I think mag limits help the death toll when a whack job goes off.

I can see arguments from the other side on capacity...its just where I am with it.

 

[chicago51]

So insurance companies are ok to regulate guns....but not our health?


I thought insurance companies were greedy and screwing people over? Now you want them to regulate who can and can't buy guns???


Hilarious.

Concept of insurance is sound which is basically people pooling to manage a certain risk illness, auto accidents, home damage, etc is a sound concept. I think items that have a certain amount of risk with them do need risk management protection.

Problem with the insurance is not the concept of sharing the risk management as a society or group of society. The problem is when company X takes 30% of what I pay and pockets it and only 70% of that money is actually going towards the risk sharing pool. If gun needed to be insured I would be in favor of some sort of public option for gun owners were only necessary amount of money to manage the risk was taken and corporations didn't profit off of that.

Don't want this form to go into a tangant on health insurance. As far as health care insurance in particular goes I want to say one thing. Health insurance itself is not as big as of an issue as some my fellow lefties make it, although I think it is an issue. The issue with health care is the cost of health care itself. Was looking over my mother recent hospital bill and there was a $20 charge for an over the counter pain pill. $20 for an asprin? Really?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

So you'd like to penalize those who legally own guns by forcing them to purchase insurance?

 

[phgreek]

It baffles me how much trust we have in our government......

I really don't...I don't think the Fed should be empowered to do too much beyond collect taxes, provide for defense, negotiate international trade terms, support commerce...and then GTFOOTW. (Get the F out of the Way). AS it stands our Federal government would be hard pressed to be more incompetent if their charter was to sabotage the nation...seriously.

 

[chicago51]

President is getting the band back together. Remeber the Obama for America folks ie the Obama election campaign folks that disbanded and had nothing to do because the president got reelected? Those grass roots organizers and such are getting back together to try to rally people to support the president's gun proposals.

Obama campaign arm begins gun control push – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

In this particular instance I'm just giving info not saying this strategy is going to work for the president.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

So you'd like to penalize those who legally own guns by forcing them to purchase insurance?

You have a better chance of marrying a girl named Lennay than finding a underwriter who could economically insure "all damages from your guns". Putting aside the moral hazard issues.

 

[phgreek]

President is getting the band back together. Remeber the Obama for America folks ie the Obama election campaign folks that disbanded and had nothing to do because the president got reelected? Those grass roots organizers and such are getting back together to try to rally people to support the president's gun proposals.

Obama campaign arm begins gun control push – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

In this particular instance I'm just giving info not saying this strategy is going to work for the president.

..ALL RIGHT...awesome...more Guerilla tactics like FOIAs and gunowner maps for all..Woohoo!

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

I'm becoming less supportive of the registration thing...trust me. But its because the Fed. refuses to throttle the fringe anti-gun folks who are now victimizing people who are totally legal...Great way to foster healthy debate there fellas...

The 10 round thing...I get it. When a whack job starts shooting...time and again it appears bystanders jump in...it'd be nice to have a 2s break in the shooting to get to him. And yes I know the apparent futility in that. 1) already a kajillion mags out there. 2) even an idiot like me can make my own mag. But the issue is, it seems not to be in the profile of these guys to have the aptitude, desire, or focus to do that. they tend to take whats available, and go. So, to my feeble mind, while unlikely to initially impact things, eventually I think mag limits help the death toll when a whack job goes off.

I can see arguments from the other side on capacity...its just where I am with it.

I would like to see someone with a 2 second window, "get to" the shooter. Jared Loughner was not changing mags, his gun jammed. That is why he was charged and it is teh primary example people like to cite when discussing the limits on magazine capacity.

The only way you are going to stop an active shooter is with another active shooter (civilian with concealed carry permit). See the Portland mall shooting the week before Sandy Hook. Gunman was confronted by a civilan with a gun (because the mall was not a gunfree zone). The civilan did not fire because of innocents in his sight picture, but the gunman saw him, and the next shot fired was in to his own brain.

I just don't think many people will be to willing to charge at the shooter as he is doing the tactical reload. Most likely because the gun will still be up in a firing position so, in the heat of the moment, how will you be sure he is reloading. Its not like the guy will take a knee and look down to reload. I can reload, on the move, and never take my muzzle off what I am aiming at and I can do it in probably 2 seconds. By the time you would be able to think and react, I would have another mag in and back to engaging the target.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I would like to see someone with a 2 second window, "get to" the shooter. Jared Loughner was not changing mags, his gun jammed. That is why he was charged and it is teh primary example people like to cite when discussing the limits on magazine capacity.

The only way you are going to stop an active shooter is with another active shooter (civilian with concealed carry permit). See the Portland mall shooting the week before Sandy Hook. Gunman was confronted by a civilan with a gun (because the mall was not a gunfree zone). The civilan did not fire because of innocents in his sight picture, but the gunman saw him, and the next shot fired was in to his own brain.

I just don't think many people will be to willing to charge at the shooter as he is doing the tactical reload. Most likely because the gun will still be up in a firing position so, in the heat of the moment, how will you be sure he is reloading. Its not like the guy will take a knee and look down to reload. I can reload, on the move, and never take my muzzle off what I am aiming at and I can do it in probably 2 seconds. By the time you would be able to think and react, I would have another mag in and back to engaging the target.

Jared Loughner to be charged in Arizona shootings targeting Gabrielle Giffords - Los Angeles Times

It was both.

Loughner fired all 31 bullets in the magazine and was reloading when a woman in the crowd, already wounded, attempted to grab the gun from him. He finally changed the magazine and tried to fire, but the gun jammed. Meanwhile, two men from the crowd grabbed him and subdued him, officials said.

I'll ask again...what if he would have had to reload 2 times before getting off 31 shots?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I personally would be very hesitant to "charge" a shooter while they're reloading.

But, reloading would give a slightly greater edge to those trying to run away.

 

[phgreek]

I would like to see someone with a 2 second window, "get to" the shooter. Jared Loughner was not changing mags, his gun jammed. That is why he was charged and it is teh primary example people like to cite when discussing the limits on magazine capacity.

The only way you are going to stop an active shooter is with another active shooter (civilian with concealed carry permit). See the Portland mall shooting the week before Sandy Hook. Gunman was confronted by a civilan with a gun (because the mall was not a gunfree zone). The civilan did not fire because of innocents in his sight picture, but the gunman saw him, and the next shot fired was in to his own brain.

I just don't think many people will be to willing to charge at the shooter as he is doing the tactical reload. Most likely because the gun will still be up in a firing position so, in the heat of the moment, how will you be sure he is reloading. Its not like the guy will take a knee and look down to reload. I can reload, on the move, and never take my muzzle off what I am aiming at and I can do it in probably 2 seconds. By the time you would be able to think and react, I would have another mag in and back to engaging the target.

I LOVE having civilians armed with handguns...I agree there is no BETTER way than to have a shooter face someone with a weapon who knows how to use it. But, ...people did charge Laughner. I thought a teacher and administrator charged the sandy hook shooter...

I don't know if your common insane person has your weapon skills in terms of muzzle control, and clip change. some of the very things I asked for earlier in the thread was clip changes that require two hands, and cocking requirements after x rounds...

I don't know if those at Sandy Hook would have thought to wait for a reload/jam/****...I don't know if more kids would have seen a window to escape (as others have mentioned)...I don't know if the Denver shooter would have been disarmed sooner. I do know in insanely stressful situations people do indeed put themselves out there...would like to help them.

 

[JadeBrecks]

I'll ask again...what if he would have had to reload 2 times before getting off 31 shots?

Then that specific magazine wouldn't have jammed and they wouldn't have had their window.

 

[JadeBrecks]

I LOVE having civilians armed with handguns...I agree there is no BETTER way than to have a shooter face someone with a weapon who knows how to use it. But, ...people did charge Laughner. I thought a teacher and administrator charged the sandy hook shooter...

I don't know if your common insane person has your weapon skills in terms of muzzle control, and clip change. some of the very things I asked for earlier in the thread was clip changes that require two hands, and cocking requirements after x rounds...

I don't know if those at Sandy Hook would have thought to wait for a reload/jam/****...I don't know if more kids would have seen a window to escape (as others have mentioned)...I don't know if the Denver shooter would have been disarmed sooner. I do know in insanely stressful situations people do indeed put themselves out there...would like to help them.

You have to understand though everything you are doing to disarm/slow down/imitate the shooter you are doing to done who is trying to defend their own home from intruders.

 

[chicago51]

You have to understand though everything you are doing to disarm/slow down/imitate the shooter you are doing to done who is trying to defend their own home from intruders.

Get a security system. Maybe one with some booby traps and trapped doors. While your at have a secret "bat cave" style secret passage installed as well.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kI8Vf1oqCKI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[phgreek]

You have to understand though everything you are doing to disarm/slow down/imitate the shooter you are doing to done who is trying to defend their own home from intruders.

yea...I understand what you are saying. I am the kind of guy that says, in a home invasion, I'll take my very short, but legal shotgun (yea its a 10), with my 45 tucked in my belt...and feel more safe than having any rifle..."assalt" or otherwise. I think anyone who came into my home with something other than a grenade loses...

...but I understand my way may not be your way...really hard.

 

[irishpat183]

You have a better chance of marrying a girl named Lennay than finding a underwriter who could economically insure "all damages from your guns". Putting aside the moral hazard issues.

No sh*t. I can't imagine the premiums.


Then people would complain that not everyone could afford the insurance, we'd have a national crisis with horror stories of people "dying in the streets", and then the government gun insurance czar would claim that everyone is entitled to it and raise taxes on those that pay all the taxes to begin with.

 

[irishpat183]

Get a security system. Maybe one with some booby traps and trapped doors. While your at have a secret "bat cave" style secret passage installed as well.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kI8Vf1oqCKI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What if i can't afford a home security system? will the government step in and provide me one?

 

[DSully1995]

What if i can't afford a home security system? will the government step in and provide me one?

Im convinced you will one day run off to the nevada desert to live off the grid, where the socialist fascists government cant get at you...

 

[irishpat183]

Im convinced you will one day run off to the nevada desert to live off the grid, where the socialist fascists government cant get at you...

LOL...

Hey! It's a legit question. How SAFE do you want us to be?? To what lenght will we go?

 

[chicago51]

What if i can't afford a home security system? will the government step in and provide me one?

Believe it or not I'm not a big believer on government just giving stuff away.

 

[irishpat183]

Believe it or not I'm not a big believer on government just giving stuff away.

...Just taking away rights, huh?


LOL

 

[chicago51]

...Just taking away rights, huh?


LOL

Taking away rights?

One of the most concervative justices on the USSC doesn't think the 2nd amendment gives an individual the right to own an assault weapon.

Scalia opens door for gun-control legislation, extends slow burning debate | Fox News

 

[phgreek]

Hey, I just want to say...if anyone is going to run away from the Government...I would Suggest the Pan Handle of Idaho...I once stood in the middle of the desert in NV...could still smell Harry Reid's Opression...well, and I found Uncle Harry's stash of 600K from that bribe the Utah AG gave him...so I can't really go back...

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Taking away rights?

One of the most concervative justices on the USSC doesn't think the 2nd amendment gives an individual the right to own an assault weapon.

Scalia opens door for gun-control legislation, extends slow burning debate | Fox News

Please define "assault weapon".

 

[irishpat183]

Please define "assault weapon".

They first have to figure out the correct defination, and then make a new one up to fit their argument.


10 rounds or more isn't an "assault weapon".

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

They first have to figure out the correct defination, and then make a new one up to fit their argument.


10 rounds or more isn't an "assault weapon".

Exactly! Neither is a flash hider, barrel shroud, or collapsible stock. The fear based language that is used is ridiculous. I know it is nitpicking, but I also hate how "clip" and "magazine" are used interchangeably. They should have to define something correctly before regulating it. Instead they use fear and emotion to further their agendas even though it will do zero to help the situation.

 

[JadeBrecks]

Exactly! Neither is a flash hider, barrel shroud, or collapsible stock. The fear based language that is used is ridiculous. I know it is nitpicking, but I also hate how "clip" and "magazine" are used interchangeably. They should have to define something correctly before regulating it. Instead they use fear and emotion to further their agendas even though it will do zero to help the situation.

Ask i hope with magazines is if they get something through they use the word clip instead of magazine. Then they would have some serious lawsuits. The law would then ban stripper clips instead of magazines.

I do find it interesting the language politicians use to push gun laws aren't the same as what they write in them.

 

[JadeBrecks]

yea...I understand what you are saying. I am the kind of guy that says, in a home invasion, I'll take my very short, but legal shotgun (yea its a 10), with my 45 tucked in my belt...and feel more safe than having any rifle..."assalt" or otherwise. I think anyone who came into my home with something other than a grenade loses...

...but I understand my way may not be your way...really hard.

What happens if I'm wearing soft armor?

 

[irishpat183]

What happens if I'm wearing soft armor?

Then you won't be able to walk.

I'll saw you off at the knees with my FNP .45 Tactical with laser sights and a 15 round "clip".