Occupy Wall St.

[CanadianIrish]

The only way to fix the system is to institute term limits. The problem with politics is that being a politician is now a career, rather than a form of service. Elected officials should be limited to one term.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Find people with actual integrity.

That's the best way I see it.

The people who are smart enough to lead are too smart to run for public office.

 

[BobD]

During the next election I'm leaning towards supporting a candidate with a flat tax plan, how's everyone feel about flat tax?

 

[BobD]

The people who are smart enough to lead are too smart to run for public office.

Very true. Politicians aren't leaders anymore, every single one of them is somebodies puppet.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

During the next election I'm leaning towards supporting a candidate with a flat tax plan, how's everyone feel about flat tax?

LOVE flat tax. Gimme a 10-15% flat tax any day. Bye bye IRS! This graduated income tax nonsense needs to go. Large, broad tax base works the best.

 

[phgreek]

During the next election I'm leaning towards supporting a candidate with a flat tax plan, how's everyone feel about flat tax?

I'm an advocate. It is certainly part of a larger vision to return to some principles of fairness in opportunity, but no guarantee of results/outcomes.

Folks really don't like to hear it, but that simple frame of mind as applied to governance is what made this country great...and departure from it, in every case, has damaged us.

On taxes specifically...true we've had graduated taxes for a long time...I don't mind saying that was a bad idea.

The government's business is to establish and protect an environment that allows people OF THIS NATION their pursuits...on even ground. Beyond that, we are on a slippery slope to...well, where we are now.

 

[BeauBenken]

I'm 18 and I've been wanting a flat tax for a long time. lol

Give what you can.

And forget tax cuts, I say.

 

[pkt77242]

I am absolutely against a flat tax, though I am for getting rid of deductions and lowering all the rates.

And the idea of a national sales tax makes me rather sick.

 

[pkt77242]

And to those who support a flat tax, how is it going to work? Are the poor going to have to pay signifcantly more (making them even worse off?) are the going to cut spending even more then we already have to to hold down deficits? Pray tell how this is going to work?

 

[BeauBenken]

And to those who support a flat tax, how is it going to work? Are the poor going to have to pay signifcantly more (making them even worse off?) are the going to cut spending even more then we already have to to hold down deficits? Pray tell how this is going to work?

How's it going to work? Well say it's 10%, if they get 6000 dollars a year, they'll pay 600 dollars.

How much does someone who makes $6000 a year pay now?

 

[pkt77242]

How's it going to work? Well say it's 10%, if they get 6000 dollars a year, they'll pay 600 dollars.

How much does someone who makes $6000 a year pay now?

Beau, not to be mean, but if it is 10% we will have to cut spending drastically to not go even more deeply into debt. So if you are talking about a flat tax of say 20% (while not perfect but is probably closer to what it would need to be) you are going to cause massive harm to poorer families. Again, how would this work?


That $600 would mean that they wouldn't eat for a month or more. Nice.

 

[pkt77242]

Here is my tax plan. Everyone pays something (hell I don't care if the lowest rate is $50 a year, just something) and we get rid of most if not all deductions (including for businesses) and lower the tax rates but still keep the progressive tax rate system.

 

[BeauBenken]

Beau, not to be mean, but if it is 10% we will have to cut spending drastically to not go even more deeply into debt. So if you are talking about a flat tax of say 20% (while not perfect but is probably closer to what it would need to be) you are going to cause massive harm to poorer families. Again, how would this work?


That $600 would mean that they wouldn't eat for a month or more. Nice.

I know it won't be 10%, that was for the example (where I was poking fun at you).

And how much money does someone who earns that much money pay in taxes as is?

 

[BobD]

Beau, not to be mean, but if it is 10% we will have to cut spending drastically to not go even more deeply into debt. So if you are talking about a flat tax of say 20% (while not perfect but is probably closer to what it would need to be) you are going to cause massive harm to poorer families. Again, how would this work?


That $600 would mean that they wouldn't eat for a month or more. Nice.

a flat tax would have to be approx. 10% income tax, 10% national sales tax and 10% capital gains with zero exceptions....for ANYONE.

 

[pkt77242]

a flat tax would have to be approx. 10% income tax, 10% national sales tax and 10% capital gains with zero exceptions....for ANYONE.

So you just ****ed the poor people. You just took a family of 4 making $20000 from a $0 (well I think they pay $0) federal tax liability (as far as income and national sales tax) to a $2000 federal tax liability. So they aren't eating for multiple months then. SMH.

A flat tax with a national sales tax is about as regressive as it gets. A poor family would actually pay a larger percentage of what they make in taxes then the richest people. How is that flat? A poor family pays the same income tax and then spends all of their money so they pay tax on every cent they make but the rich don't spend anywhere near all of their money. SMH

 

[pkt77242]

I know it won't be 10%, that was for the example (where I was poking fun at you).

And how much money does someone who earns that much money pay in taxes as is?

As much as they can afford which is $0 (though I would be fine with them paying a small amount say $50 for a year, which would require some sacrifice but wouldn't be a burden). Poke fun at me all you want (I am like the pillsbury dough boy) but come up with a credible working plan that doesn't kill the poor and middle class. A flat tax unfairly harms the people who can least afford it.

 

[BeauBenken]

I just used a tax calculator and used the numbers from my first example to you and those people actually pay that amount right now. lol

 

[pkt77242]

I just used a tax calculator and used the numbers from my first example to you and those people actually pay that amount right now. lol

with deductions? and credits?

 

[BobD]

So you just ****ed the poor people. Great, please tell me you are not Christian. You just took a family of 4 making $20000 from a $0 (well I think they pay $0) federal tax liability (as far as income and national sales tax) to a $2000 federal tax liability. So they aren't eating for multiple months then. SMH.

A flat tax with a national sales tax is about as regressive as it gets. A poor family would actually pay a larger percentage of what they make in taxes then the richest people. How is that flat? A poor family pays the same income tax and then spends all of their money so they pay tax on every cent they make but the rich don't spend anywhere near all of their money. SMH

A poor family as you mention, would have more money in their weekly pay or welfare check since income tax would be reduced to a flat 10%.

$2000.00 is $38.46 per week.

I believe in the current system, a poor family of 4 making 20k per year probably gets a refund of a few thousand dollars more than they actually paid in federal tax. ??? is that right?? anyone know??

 

[pkt77242]

A poor family as you mention, would have more money in their weekly pay or welfare check since income tax would be reduced to a flat 10%.

$2000.00 is $38.46 per week.

I believe in the current system, a poor family of 4 making 20k per year probably gets a refund of a few thousand dollars more than they actually paid in federal tax. ??? is that right?? anyone know??

They wouldn't have any tax liability probably. I believe they fall in the 10% tax bracket currently, so $2000 in taxes and with the 2 children deductions and the earned income tax credit, they would probably get money back and probably well over a thousand if not multiple thousands of dollars. So you go from them getting thousand of dollars on top of their $20,000 in income to having to pay $2,000 in federal taxes on top of their local sales tax and you just made that family either not eat for a couple of months or sleep on the street.

The math just doesn't work unless you want to screw the poor people.

 

[BobD]

So you just ****ed the poor people. You just took a family of 4 making $20000 from a $0 (well I think they pay $0) federal tax liability (as far as income and national sales tax) to a $2000 federal tax liability. So they aren't eating for multiple months then. SMH.

A flat tax with a national sales tax is about as regressive as it gets. A poor family would actually pay a larger percentage of what they make in taxes then the richest people. How is that flat? A poor family pays the same income tax and then spends all of their money so they pay tax on every cent they make but the rich don't spend anywhere near all of their money. SMH

Rich people don't spend all their money, but they still spend a hell of a lot more than poor folk. So they would be paying more tax.

 

[BeauBenken]

with deductions? and credits?

Not to my knowledge.

 

[BeauBenken]

They wouldn't have any tax liability probably. I believe they fall in the 10% tax bracket currently, so $2000 in taxes and with the 2 children deductions and the earned income tax credit, they would probably get money back and probably well over a thousand if not multiple thousands of dollars. So you go from them getting thousand of dollars on top of their $20,000 in income to having to pay $2,000 in federal taxes on top of their local sales tax and you just made that family either not eat for a couple of months or sleep on the street.

The math just doesn't work unless you want to screw the poor people.

What about no income tax and just a flat sales tax then?

 

[pkt77242]

Rich people don't spend all their money, but they still spend a hell of a lot more than poor folk. So they would be paying more tax.

Not as a percentage of income.

 

[pkt77242]

What about no income tax and just a flat sales tax then?

Nope. Even more regressive. Let's say the sales tax was 10%. A person making $20,000 spends it all and so pays the full 10% of their income. A person making $1 million might only spend about half (or even less) thus their tax burden is about 5% of their income.

 

[BobD]

Not as a percentage of income.

Because we're talking about a flat tax, they (the rich) would be paying considerably more income tax, more sales tax and more capital gains tax.

 

[BobD]

Nope. Even more regressive. Let's say the sales tax was 10%. A person making $20,000 spends it all and so pays the full 10% of their income. A person making $1 million might only spend about half (or even less) thus their tax burden is about 5% of their income.

When was it decided to make our tax system a welfare and quality of life equalizer? I thought taxation was a nations revenue source which should be equal for all. I beleive we have plenty of government agencies and charitable organizations to handle the of health and welfare of the poor.

 

[tadman95]

Interesting article from MSNBC. I suspect these situations are why some people have joined the OWS protest.

Bottom Line - 30 companies paid 'less than zero' taxes in recent years

 

[BeauBenken]

Nope. Even more regressive. Let's say the sales tax was 10%. A person making $20,000 spends it all and so pays the full 10% of their income. A person making $1 million might only spend about half (or even less) thus their tax burden is about 5% of their income.

Okay, but last I checked $500,000 x .10 > $20,000 x .10

And why do your poor spend so much?

And there's been no talk of getting rid of welfare. Why do you act like the poor will get taxed and then just be left to die?

 

[RallySonsOfND]

When was it decided to make our tax system a welfare and quality of life equalizer? I thought taxation was a nations revenue source which should be equal for all. I beleive we have plenty of government agencies and charitable organizations to handle the of health and welfare of the poor.

Reps.