O line

[IrishChris209]

O line intresting read


South Bend Tribune: Thayer lays it on the line

 

[phork]

Great article, and one telling paragraph:

And, perhaps coincidentally, more than half of the bottom 25 rushing teams in college football's top division have coaches with résumés heavy with NFL influence and experience.

 

[Bubba]

Honestly, the only team I know that had great success with zone blocking was the Denver Broncos and even they're not that good anymore. I'd love to see more smashmouth football at ND. We have big strong guys up front.

Did you see the rushing stats on the right side of the article? We haven't had a quality rushing attack since 2001.

 

[ARALOU]

I thought we were decent in 05 or 06? Not top 5 or anything but decent.

 

[goldandblue]

Yeah but great things were expected out of the 06 offensive line and they never met expectations.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

O line intresting read


South Bend Tribune: Thayer lays it on the line

Perfect. Great post dude. Thanks. Someone needs to knock on CW's front door and hand him this article. Problem is bigger than that though. Entire offensive offensive package needs to go.

Playcalling? Everyone on this forum can call a tossup play given CW's O scheme.

Big problem.

Coaches on offense are scapegoats to his Offensive system.

From the article: "And, perhaps coincidentally, more than half of the bottom 25 rushing teams in college football's top division have coaches with résumés heavy with NFL influence and experience."

Friggen BINGO! and bingo was his name-o.

High school, college, and pro football are 3 different monsters.

Just friggen play football. Dolphins showing silly basic attack stuff can work.

ATTACK OR GO HOME.

 

[badassgixxer05]

Can someone hire this guy! I like the fire and toughness in his tone. Isn't that what CW was talking about when he was hired here? Promising us a tough take no shit from no one team.. Seems like Theyer would be the right fit. I would like to see him in the office debating his points for the job. Then maybe we can get back to what ND football was all about.

 

[WabashFalcon]

Draft Countdown - Ask Scott | 12/10/08

From NFLDraftcountdown... he believes that Latina's a joke too and the problem is ALL coach.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Draft Countdown - Ask Scott | 12/10/08

From NFLDraftcountdown... he believes that Latina's a joke too and the problem is ALL coach.

Nice find. I don't know who the hell wrote it, but I don't care. Made sense to me. PLEASE FIRE LATINA!!! I mean, we can't get any worse with a new coach, so why the hell not???

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Does CW get a copy?

I'm not certain it's Latina, but mainly the scheme. It can be run successfully in the pro's (Broncos), but unless you have 4 year guys running it, starting off sideways seems to not work so well for us.
Time for change that works.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Both articles are good reads. They are sharp and to the point. Come Hawaii time, we will see if they change anything.

Diz

 

[roto-stud]

I'll throw out the name Andy Heck... tackle and co-captain of the 1988 ND national championship
team... 12 year pro... last 5 years O Line coach Jachsonville Jags... instead of our players seeing Weis's Super Bowl rings how about Heck flashing a ND national championship ring... great motivator for the guys in the trenches.

 

[phgreek]

O line intresting read


South Bend Tribune: Thayer lays it on the line

YES...finally...someone with the O-line chops to say it...and be credible....

We all saw the result, we all knew the O-line was broken. But this guy nailed it down to specifics...and of course he is an alum, football player...and analyst...LISTEN TO THIS GUY CHARLIE...PLEASE!!!!

AWESOME find/Post dude.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Nice find. I don't know who the hell wrote it, but I don't care. Made sense to me. PLEASE FIRE LATINA!!! I mean, we can't get any worse with a new coach, so why the hell not???

When I read this, it points out that it's not Latina's fault...it's Weis'.

 

[Junkhead]

When I read this, it points out that it's not Latina's fault...it's Weis'.

Latina has long since worn out his welcome. ND's line has underperformed for 4 YEARS. It is a combination of factors, but I just can't get anyone trying to defend Latina.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Latina has long since worn out his welcome. ND's line has underperformed for 4 YEARS. It is a combination of factors, but I just can't get anyone trying to defend Latina.

It's pretty simple really, he's consistently been one of the best OL coaches in the country. Then he starts working for a guy who runs a pro-style offense with a complicated zone blocking scheme. A guy who's teams in the NFL were amongst the lowest in rushing, btw. Then we find out the OL is having issues because the scheme is too hard.

OK, so who's fault is it?

 

[Junkhead]

It's pretty simple really, he's consistently been one of the best OL coaches in the country.

This is where we don't agree. What evidence is there of that?? And I agree that the scheme is at least partly to blame. Honestly, I'd have been happy to have Weis gone as well as Latina. Both should be ashamed of their performances.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

As a TV watcher and lifetime ND fan (but also a lifetime football guy...) I still think Latina, Powlus, and Haywood are being scapegoated. Lack of depth and youth is biggest problem.

I simply don't like CW's offense. Doesn't challenge all athletes to perform at best. Seems to me it is an offense designed to protect athletes and better designed for pro offensive system about 5 years ago. But football evolves, and this offense has been "caught up with."

The team did improve this year in all other areas.

I guess we will see next year.

I think ND does well next year.

 

[Dizzyphil]

It's pretty simple really, he's consistently been one of the best OL coaches in the country. Then he starts working for a guy who runs a pro-style offense with a complicated zone blocking scheme. A guy who's teams in the NFL were amongst the lowest in rushing, btw. Then we find out the OL is having issues because the scheme is too hard.

OK, so who's fault is it?

Latina has the right stuff. IMO I think it's the way CW sets up. He sets up the pass for the run. I sill do not think that their ideas mesh. I also agree we have a depth problem at the o-line as well. A mixture for a swiss cheese line.

Diz

 

[ism10]

Latina has long since worn out his welcome. ND's line has underperformed for 4 YEARS. It is a combination of factors, but I just can't get anyone trying to defend Latina.

Under Performed We went to a BCS bowl to of those four years whe are talking about pounding the rock here man we need to be able to run the football this last year we would not have given up half as many sacks if Good Ol JC wouldn't of held on to the ball so long and don't try to defend the kid who settles for a 17 yard sack instead of throwing the ball away!

 

[Junkhead]

Under Performed We went to a BCS bowl to of those four years whe are talking about pounding the rock here man we need to be able to run the football this last year we would not have given up half as many sacks if Good Ol JC wouldn't of held on to the ball so long and don't try to defend the kid who settles for a 17 yard sack instead of throwing the ball away!

Yes underperformed. Do you remember having to run max protect against LSU in the sugar bowl? I think Darius Walker doing well is more testament to his vision than the blocking. In 2005 OL was ok. In 2006, with an experienced line (Harris-4yr starter), Santucci and Sullivan (both in NFL now), Morton (passed on NFL) and Freshman Starter Young, they were still mediocre. I think the team was good in 2005-6 in spite of the OL, and more due to the fact that Quinn was damn good.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

This is where we don't agree. What evidence is there of that?? And I agree that the scheme is at least partly to blame. Honestly, I'd have been happy to have Weis gone as well as Latina. Both should be ashamed of their performances.

Go look at his resume and his performance. He consistently had one of the very vest OLs in the SEC.

Then he comes here and his OL looks like crap.

Did he forget to coach overnight?

 

[MeanGreen]

If it is the scheme and Latina does not know how to coach guys to perform in the scheme, then he either should have told CW or left on his own. Why stick around and ruin your career or become a scapegoat. The O-line is the one of the problems, fix it. Change the scheme, change the coach, get more depth, better talent, fix it. Holtz used to move people around, is there a D line not being used that could help? Though there is not much depth there either. Why can Navy run the ball against everybody? Sure they run the option, but those guys give it there all every play. They are over matched every game, yet they create enough holes to get 300 yards a game. Maybe our guys just need to want it more. Could it be an attitude thing?

 

[Irish Canuck]

If it is the scheme and Latina does not know how to coach guys to perform in the scheme, then he either should have told CW or left on his own. Why stick around and ruin your career or become a scapegoat.

Or.. the scheme is garbage and nobody could coach it well. Which is most likely the case because CW is a fucking joke as a coach.

I love ND more than anyone... I've kicked a ton of money into that school and supported them through thick and thin... but I'm getting to my breaking point.

Our running game has been ridiculous from day 1 of CW reign... and just getting worse.

"Schematic advantage" my ass. What a clown.

CW should take those SB rings and shove em' up his arse!

I feel bad for the assistants on this team... they've been hung out to dry by his fool. (I imagine we may hear some of the behind the scene idiocy going on once some of these guys get bounced). They all look bad because this guy is a schmuck as a head college coach. He provides no leadership or passion for his coaches or players. I mean, he talked about his 'schematic advantage' and then decides he should not be the guy calling the plays after his genius leads to a 3-9 record. He spends the first 15 minutes of each game press conference trying to impress us with how well he can recite facts and stats about the other team any goof could print off the other school's web site and do. He takes play calling back and does a worse job than a rookie play caller. He represents ND like a pompous prick.... rubbing everyone the wrong way...

..... for the love of football... I could go on and on....

What a friggin' circus!

They should toss this chump and watch his fat ass bounce all the way back to NJ.

I will always cheer for ND to win... but I've gotten to the point that it will be a cheer for victory in spite of the idiot we have coaching. For the sake of ND... I hope he gets really lucky... because that's what it's going to take... since he hasn't got a clue.

 

[Junkhead]

Go look at his resume and his performance. He consistently had one of the very vest OLs in the SEC.

Then he comes here and his OL looks like crap.

Did he forget to coach overnight?

His resume? lol I know what you are saying though. I'm not sure if it is him or not, but something needs to change. Maybe it is Weis's pathetic attempt at a pro-style offense, but I have been underwhelmed by the OL since both started here. Change has to be made!

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Or.. the scheme is garbage and nobody could coach it well. Which is most likely the case because CW is a fucking joke as a coach.

Sorry man, but this is a stupid comment.

The scheme might be too complex for college kids, but it's proven at the NFL level.

I think the problem is that NFL level playbooks are far too much for college kids to learn.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

His resume? lol I know what you are saying though. I'm not sure if it is him or not, but something needs to change. Maybe it is Weis's pathetic attempt at a pro-style offense, but I have been underwhelmed by the OL since both started here. Change has to be made!

When he was at SoMiss his OLs gave up the least amount of sacks 2 of the 5 years he was there...and in the other 3 they placed in the Top3. He was the OL when Eli Manning was there... His OLs were known for being Joe Moore style and amazing.

 

[Flyin_Irish]

There has been a lot of speculation that perhaps Weis and Latina do not see eye to eye on O line coaching.

Did Latina's O lines in his previous experience employ zone blocking technique? If zone blocking is something that Charlie is forcing on the line and Latina, it's pretty obvious that there will be some friction there. I don't know if that's the case, just my speculation. If Charlie is dead set on this zone blocking scheme, he needs to get a coach who knows how to use it. Other college programs have successfully run zone blocking schemes, so it's not impossible.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

It's pretty simple really, he's consistently been one of the best OL coaches in the country. Then he starts working for a guy who runs a pro-style offense with a complicated zone blocking scheme. A guy who's teams in the NFL were amongst the lowest in rushing, btw. Then we find out the OL is having issues because the scheme is too hard.

OK, so who's fault is it?

You are kidding me. Right?

CW's offense is flat out stupid. It might work next year but...

Not much difference between head-up or I H O blocking. Linemen aren't stupid. People are as stupid as their manager thinks they are and allows them to be. Friggen play football. CW's offensive package does not allow for that. Could be lack of depth, or silly offensive package.

I don't know.

I have noticed that O-line lacks footwork and misses on unnecessary chop blocks.

 

[BestBIrish47]

You are kidding me. Right?

CW's offense is flat out stupid. It might work next year but...

Not much difference between head-up or I H O blocking. Linemen aren't stupid. People are as stupid as their manager thinks they are and allows them to be. Friggen play football. CW's offensive package does not allow for that. Could be lack of depth, or silly offensive package.

I don't know.

I have noticed that O-line lacks footwork and misses on unnecessary chop blocks.

Well put! I agree, Oline is about footwork and explosion. We let the opposition run us down from the backside way too much. With Zone blocking scheme, the back hits the hole running down hill. If nothing is there, there should schematically be a cut back. Without executing the back side sting, cut, chop, there is not a cut back option. I am tired of our Running game being so constipated. We need some offensive fiber or something.