Notre Dame to the B1G Conference?

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Honestly would rather play UCLA every year than Stanford.

Agree.

 

[Dale]

Pacific
Oregon
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Washington

In a copy of the ACC model, to my knowledge of Pac 12 rivalries only these games really need to be played:

UCLA vs USC
Stanford vs USC
Oregon vs Washington

In the pod system you’ve guaranteed a significant amount of games that neither particularly cares that much about in the end nor do the generate much interest for the most part.

 

[B1G20]

Problem to be worked out. You wind up with a two game conference championship. If you continue with a two game national championship you are pushing NFL type game numbers and injury will be a big issue

Negative, it's a one game CCG - the schedule/standings just rotate every year.

For example, in the year the Pacific plays the Atlantic, the team with the best record in the regular season advances to the CCG and they would play against the team with the best record of the Great Plains + Great Lakes.

The next year the divisions rotate, and the Pacific plays the Great Lakes, while the Atlantic plays the Great Plains.

The best part of no crossovers is there will never be a rematch in the CCG, if you can avoid the crossovers.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Might be easier to make schedules work if the Big Ten passed on Oregon/Washington and went with Duke/North Carolina.

Then you can put Notre Dame in with USC/UCLA/Stanford. It would be tough to add Oregon/Washington and not put all five in one pod.

Make it something like..

* Notre Dame
* Nebraska
* UCLA
* USC
* Stanford

* Illinois
* Iowa
* Minnesota
* Northwestern
* Wisconsin

* Purdue
* Indiana
* Michigan
* Michigan State
* Ohio State

* Penn State
* Rutgers
* Maryland
* Duke
* North Carolina

 

[Gold1]

Might be easier to make schedules work if the Big Ten passed on Oregon/Washington and went with Duke/North Carolina.

Then you can put Notre Dame in with USC/UCLA/Stanford. It would be tough to add Oregon/Washington and not put all five in one pod.

Make it something like..

* Notre Dame
* Nebraska
* UCLA
* USC
* Stanford

* Illinois
* Iowa
* Minnesota
* Northwestern
* Wisconsin

* Purdue
* Indiana
* Michigan
* Michigan State
* Ohio State

* Penn State
* Rutgers
* Maryland
* Duke
* North Carolina

If they are going to expand like this, not sure why they would stop at 20 teams and not go after Miami, Clemson, and Fla St. Expand to 24 teams and do not give up all of Fla recruiting base to the SEC. The B1G already has few options in Texas. Should not lose Fla IMO. Duke might be a take over NC for BB and academics. NC would be a natural fit for SEC with SC. Those 4 plus Rutg and MD and the B1G owns the entire east coast and Fla.

 

[B1G20]

If we're going to a thermonuclear winter for the ACC, and the B1G could make the money work at 24, I could see something like this working out well for everyone:

Pacific
USC
Notre Dame
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington

Great Plains
Wisconsin
Iowa
Nebraska
Minnesota
Illinois
Northwestern

Great Lakes
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue
Indiana
Rutgers

Atlantic
Penn State
Maryland
North Carolina
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Miami/Florida State

Not sure Miami/FSU would get the votes due to academics, but that gives you about everything you could want at 24.

 

[B1G20]

You'd have to go to 11 conference games for that to work though, which may not be palatable.

 

[BilboBaggins]

If they are going to expand like this, not sure why they would stop at 20 teams and not go after Miami, Clemson, and Fla St. Expand to 24 teams and do not give up all of Fla recruiting base to the SEC. The B1G already has few options in Texas. Should not lose Fla IMO. Duke might be a take over NC for BB and academics. NC would be a natural fit for SEC with SC. Those 4 plus Rutg and MD and the B1G owns the entire east coast and Fla.

20 teams makes a nine-game conference schedule possible. 24 pushes it to 11. I don't think these guys want only 1 OOC game, any school with a nonconference rival (Notre Dame, Iowa, Stanford) would be pretty opposed to that.

With 3 OOC games you can still have room for home-and-homes with southern schools.

 

[B1G20]

I agree, 20 is the best number unless you basically nuke all non-cons.

 

[Dale]

For example, in the year the Pacific plays the Atlantic, the team with the best record in the regular season advances to the CCG and they would play against the team with the best record of the Great Plains + Great Lakes.

This is another point against pods though. Why when given the opportunity to create new conference rules limit yourself from the 2 best teams possibly being in the championship? The Great Plains and Atlantic pods in these examples deserve zero advantages over the second best team in another pod. Honestly every pod example is pushing me closer to the ACC model being a massive upgrade

 

[Gold1]

20 teams makes a nine-game conference schedule possible. 24 pushes it to 11. I don't think these guys want only 1 OOC game, any school with a nonconference rival (Notre Dame, Iowa, Stanford) would be pretty opposed to that.

With 3 OOC games you can still have room for home-and-homes with southern schools.

Once you have 24 teams in the B1G conf not sure any of them need more than one other OOC game. Trade off Fla recruiting base for one more OOC game? Afraid that might be the gamble as I doubt SEC stops at 20 if they see the opportunity to capture all of Fla and Texas as recruiting bases. Go “B1G” or stay home IMHO😊

 

[B1G20]

This is another point against pods though. Why when given the opportunity to create new conference rules limit yourself from the 2 best teams possibly being in the championship? The Great Plains and Atlantic pods in these examples deserve zero advantages over the second best team in another pod. Honestly every pod example is pushing me closer to the ACC model being a massive upgrade

Because conference champions should be decided on the field, not by some strange tiebreaker criteria or a rematch. Regular season games need to matter, if you say "No Divisions and a subjective 4 team playoff", they don't.

Great Plains and Atlantic pods rotating means if one is having a down year, odds are at least one of the 10 teams will be pretty good, and they're playing the other 2 divisions 2/3rds of the time anyway.

 

[B1G20]

And also, if we get to an 8-12 team playoff, the "2nd best team in the other division" argument is kind of irrelevant, if they're in the top 8-12, they're getting in the playoff, just won't win the conference.

 

[Gold1]

Because conference champions should be decided on the field, not by some strange tiebreaker criteria or a rematch. Regular season games need to matter, if you say "No Divisions and a subjective 4 team playoff", they don't.

Great Plains and Atlantic pods rotating means if one is having a down year, odds are at least one of the 10 teams will be pretty good, and they're playing the other 2 divisions 2/3rds of the time anyway.

Agree with this. What I hate about the playoff now is that the “experts” give the subjectively picked best teams a pass for regular season losses and close wins. I don’t care how good everyone thinks a team is and how much dominance they showed most of the season if they lose in week 10, for example, that should be costly just as it was to ND in ‘93.

 

[Dale]

Because conference champions should be decided on the field, not by some strange tiebreaker criteria or a rematch. Regular season games need to matter, if you say "No Divisions and a subjective 4 team playoff", they don't.

Great Plains and Atlantic pods rotating means if one is having a down year, odds are at least one of the 10 teams will be pretty good, and they're playing the other 2 divisions 2/3rds of the time anyway.

This pod:

Great Plains
Wisconsin
Iowa
Nebraska
Minnesota
Illinois
Northwestern

is not subject to just an occasional down year. This pod is going to be bad every single year and never deserve to be in the championship, it’s been happening for years. There is no reason to confine to geographic ease in a realignment. It’s not a more fair system, it’s a more fair system for the weaker teams, which Fox, I mean the B1G, will not care about. The system is going to be designed to maximize high viewership games which means more ND, Michigan, USC, OSU by whatever means possible.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

If the B1G could secure ND, Oregon, Wash, Stan, along with Miami, Fla St, Clemson, Duke it would be a phenomenal 24 team conf. Could have something like 4, 6 team regional divisions. Rotate 4 other division games and 2 non conf slots. 12th game is div champs squaring off seeds 1-4. 13th game is conf championship.
Would give B1G recruiting foothold across the country except in mid-south.
Something like:
USC, UCLA, Oregon, Wash, Stan, Neb
OSU, Mich, Mich St, IU, Pur, Iowa
ND, Penn St, Wisc, Minn, NW, IL
Clem, Miami, Fla St, Duke, Rutg, Maryland

I was trying to get a pod where we were with Purdue, but breaking up Wisc, Minn, Iowa didn't feel right.
That's A LOT of travel for Nebraska, but they would gain a massive home field advantage for November games.
Adding CAL instead of another ACC school helps with alignment. I also think UNC should come with Duke instead of two Florida schools.
Maybe the Gators instead of either as someone was suggesting?

Penn St, Clemson, Duke, UNC, Rutgers, Florida
OSU, Mich, Mich St, Purdue, IU, IL
ND, Iowa, Neb, Minn, Wisconsin, NW
USC, UCLA, Wash, Oregon, CAL, Stanford

Those are all pretty balanced

 

[B1G20]

This pod:

Great Plains
Wisconsin
Iowa
Nebraska
Minnesota
Illinois
Northwestern

is not subject to just an occasional down year. This pod is going to be bad every single year and never deserve to be in the championship, it’s been happening for years. There is no reason to confine to geographic ease in a realignment. It’s not a more fair system, it’s a more fair system for the weaker teams, which Fox, I mean the B1G, will not care about. The system is going to be designed to maximize high viewership games which means more ND, Michigan, USC, OSU by whatever means possible.

I don't think you're following - if it's down it will never be in the championship game because that division winner would have had to beat everyone in one of the other 3 divisions to get there?

 

[Dale]

I don't think you're following - if it's down it will never be in the championship game because that division winner would have had to beat everyone in one of the other 3 divisions to get there?

I’m following that part. And whoever draws that division or the Atlantic would have a clear advantage. When given an opportunity to reset would they voluntarily create a division everyone recognizes as weaker. It only serves the purpose of geographical ease which we’ve thrown out the window. You can guarantee Minnesota plays Iowa and Wisconsin without having to guarantee Minnesota plays Northwestern and Illinois too. I don’t really see the pod advantage over the 3-5-5 example besides geography, and it has way more drawbacks. This is not from my personal opinion as much as how Fox is gonna see it. Fox will take a OSU - ND rematch over a more fair OSU - Wisconsin final every day.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Penn St, Clemson, Duke, UNC, Rutgers, Florida
OSU, Mich, Mich St, Purdue, IU, IL
ND, Iowa, Neb, Minn, Wisconsin, NW
USC, UCLA, Wash, Oregon, CAL, Stanford


Four pods of six with the winners of each pod entering a four team playoff.
Winners advance to the BIG Championship game and the winner of that faces the SEC champion in the Natty.
It's still only 15 games total with a real shot at getting in the playoffs every year.

Best part is, you can schedule any non conference game you want. It wouldn't effect your shot at making the post season. We could get some epic non conference games that will make $.

 

[Gold1]

I was trying to get a pod where we were with Purdue, but breaking up Wisc, Minn, Iowa didn't feel right.
That's A LOT of travel for Nebraska, but they would gain a massive home field advantage for November games.
Adding CAL instead of another ACC school helps with alignment. I also think UNC should come with Duke instead of two Florida schools.
Maybe the Gators instead of either as someone was suggesting?

Penn St, Clemson, Duke, UNC, Rutgers, Florida
OSU, Mich, Mich St, Purdue, IU, IL
ND, Iowa, Neb, Minn, Wisconsin, NW
USC, UCLA, Wash, Oregon, CAL, Stanford

Those are all pretty balanced

Like this a lot but not sure Fla would ever leave the SEC.

 

[B1G20]

I’m following that part. And whoever draws that division or the Atlantic would have a clear advantage. When given an opportunity to reset would they voluntarily create a division everyone recognizes as weaker. It only serves the purpose of geographical ease which we’ve thrown out the window. You can guarantee Minnesota plays Iowa and Wisconsin without having to guarantee Minnesota plays Northwestern and Illinois too. I don’t really see the pod advantage over the 3-5-5 example besides geography, and it has way more drawbacks. This is not from my personal opinion as much as how Fox is gonna see it. Fox will take a OSU - ND rematch over a more fair OSU - Wisconsin final every day.

While I completely agree the Great Plains division is the weakest of the four, it isn't the landslide you seem to think it is, if you're just looking at the top two teams in each division, the records for the last 15 years have been:

Pacific (Oregon; USC): 289-118
Great Plains (Wisconsin; Iowa): 282-129
Great Lakes (Ohio State; MSU): 298-101
Atlantic (Penn State; Notre Dame): 256-130

Obviously that range includes some lean years for both PSU/ND and I'd expect them to perform better moving forward, but the Great Plains division will have a top 15 team in it more years then not. And Wisconsin hasn't just won the B1G West, they've dominated it, it's a legit top 15 program. Iowa's got a 40 year track record of being better than average and having a really good team once every 4 years or so. If Nebraska can ever find a coach they have the resources to be as high as Wisconsin/Iowa.

I still think you've got to balance competitive balance with rivalries and you can't split up Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin, as much as CFB has been commercialized, the rivalries are still what makes it great.

 

[Dale]

While I completely agree the Great Plains division is the weakest of the four, it isn't the landslide you seem to think it is, if you're just looking at the top two teams in each division, the records for the last 15 years have been:

Pacific (Oregon; USC): 289-118
Great Plains (Wisconsin; Iowa): 282-129
Great Lakes (Ohio State; MSU): 298-101
Atlantic (Penn State; Notre Dame): 256-130

Obviously that range includes some lean years for both PSU/ND and I'd expect them to perform better moving forward, but the Great Plains division will have a top 15 team in it more years then not. And Wisconsin hasn't just won the B1G West, they've dominated it, it's a legit top 15 program. Iowa's got a 40 year track record of being better than average and having a really good team once every 4 years or so. If Nebraska can ever find a coach they have the resources to be as high as Wisconsin/Iowa.

I still think you've got to balance competitive balance with rivalries and you can't split up Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin, as much as CFB has been commercialized, the rivalries are still what makes it great.

You don’t have to split them up, that’s my point. If you replicate the ACCs model, you can guarantee Minnesota, Iowa & Wisconsin play annually without having to guarantee anything about them playing Illinois, Northwestern and Nebraska for no reason besides convenience. Start with what needs to be preserved and go from there. What advantage does the pod have over that besides travel logistics? Same thing on any suggestion of ND going a West coast pod, why does ND need to play Oregon and Washington to play USC? The pod is just making guaranteed games for almost no reason.

 

[NDRock]

You'd have to go to 11 conference games for that to work though, which may not be palatable.

Nah, just do a semi final and final for the conference. Winner plays the Southern mega conference for the Championship. Northe vs South. Play the game in Charleston the first year.

 

[Irishokie]

It doesn’t seem like a good idea IMO to have ND in a pod and have to travel out west 2-3 times. Jet lag sucks!

 

[irishfan]

Four pods of five teams. You play everyone in your pod then have two protected rivalry games outside of the pod. For example, ND’s protected games would be USC and Stanford. Michigan would be OSU/Minnesota. And so on. With a 9-game conference schedule this allows teams to play the same 6 teams every year and then the other 13 teams you would play once every 4-5 years.

Pod 1: ND, Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Northwestern
Pod 2: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Washington, Oregon
Pod 3: Ohio State, Indiana, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland
Pod 4: Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota

 

[IrishBoognish]

Four pods of five teams. You play everyone in your pod then have two protected rivalry games outside of the pod. For example, ND’s protected games would be USC and Stanford. Michigan would be OSU/Minnesota. And so on. With a 9-game conference schedule this allows teams to play the same 6 teams every year and then the other 13 teams you would play once every 4-5 years.

Pod 1: ND, Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Northwestern
Pod 2: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Washington, Oregon
Pod 3: Ohio State, Indiana, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland
Pod 4: Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota

Assuming Oregon gets in, this looks great to me and I'll take it.

 

[Domer Dude]

Does this mean ND doesn't play

Boston College (Catholic)
Navy

 

[Dale]

There could be a logistical flaw I’m missing but going off the 3-5-5 in a 20 team B1G you could do a 4-5-5-5. 4 annual games and rotate the other 15 once every three years.

For example, ND could have USC, Stanford, Maryland and Michigan St. Maryland as a weaker opponent, gets you a East Coast game, Maryland lacks rivalries to have to account for. Sparty instead of Michigan or Purdue.

USC, Stanford, Maryland, Michigan St
- OSU
- Washington
- Illinois
- Minnesota
- PSU

USC, Stanford, Maryland, Michigan St
- Michigan
- Oregon
- Northwestern
- Iowa
- Rutgers

USC, Stanford, Maryland, Michigan St
- Nebraska
- UCLA
- Wisconsin
- Indiana
- Purdue

 

[NorthDakota]

I was trying to get a pod where we were with Purdue, but breaking up Wisc, Minn, Iowa didn't feel right.
That's A LOT of travel for Nebraska, but they would gain a massive home field advantage for November games.
Adding CAL instead of another ACC school helps with alignment. I also think UNC should come with Duke instead of two Florida schools.
Maybe the Gators instead of either as someone was suggesting?

Penn St, Clemson, Duke, UNC, Rutgers, Florida
OSU, Mich, Mich St, Purdue, IU, IL
ND, Iowa, Neb, Minn, Wisconsin, NW
USC, UCLA, Wash, Oregon, CAL, Stanford

Those are all pretty balanced

Why would Nebraska gain some big advantage late in the year? Lincoln gets chilly but it doesn't get legit cold in November generally.

 

[ColinKSU]

Does this mean ND doesn't play

Boston College (Catholic)
Navy

Man I hope it does.