NFL MVP

[philipm31]

Except that Manning was off his team last year...and that team still won their division and made the playoffs...and won a game in the playoffs. So based on that, how valuable is he really to his team? Take AD away from the Vikings and what would they be? Maaaybe a 4, 5 win team, tops. The way they'll finish, you could argue he alone has provided them with those extra wins to get to 8-8, 9-7, or 10-6. That's pretty damn valuable! It's not his fault his QB and team suck.

I think a comparison can be made with the Heisman Trophy-- if Te'o couldn't win it this year, then when will a pure defensive player ever win the award? And perhaps the award really should just be re-named the Best Offensive Player Award. Maybe the NFL MVP should just be renamed the Best QB on a Playoff Team Award?

Peyton is playing with FUSED VETERBRAE in his NECK. He is playing with his LIFE honestly. AP is playing with an injury that is career-threatening, not potentially LIFE THREATENING.

If there can be another year in which Peyton shares the NFL MVP with someone then this might be the year.

 

[ickythump1225]

Peyton is playing with FUSED VETERBRAE in his NECK. He is playing with his LIFE honestly. AP is playing with an injury that is career-threatening, not potentially LIFE THREATENING.

If there can be another year in which Peyton shares the NFL MVP with someone then this might be the year.

Manning is playing on a team that won a playoff game last year. Peterson is playing on a team that won 3 games last year and tore his ACL on Christmas Eve. He shouldn't even be coming back until now. The Vikings are coming off the worst two year stretch in franchise history and we are in the thick of the playoff hunt. Without Peterson we probably only have 2-3 wins right now. Without Manning the Broncos are still a playoff team.

 

[philipm31]

Manning is playing on a team that won a playoff game last year. Peterson is playing on a team that won 3 games last year and tore his ACL on Christmas Eve. He shouldn't even be coming back until now. The Vikings are coming off the worst two year stretch in franchise history and we are in the thick of the playoff hunt. Without Peterson we probably only have 2-3 wins right now. Without Manning the Broncos are still a playoff team.

Peyton should not be playing AT ALL. He was told not to by doctors initially, maybe 3. I think that his own wife BEGGED him not to play again, EVER.

Peterson is having a great year, but there is no way that his knee issue is potentially life threatening. Peyton could still be paralyzed from the neck down after a particularly brutal hit. AP could tear his knee up again and still be able to walk and play with his kids.

Both are deserving. I don't see how you can disagree too vehemently.

Peyton has split the MVP before with McNair, so it would not be the first time for him to share the award.

 

[ickythump1225]

Peyton should not be playing AT ALL. He was told not to by doctors initially, maybe 3. I think that his own wife BEGGED him not to play again, EVER.

Peterson is having a great year, but there is no way that his knee issue is potentially life threatening. Peyton could still be paralyzed from the neck down after a particularly brutal hit. AP could tear his knee up again and still be able to walk and play with his kids.

Both are deserving. I don't see how you can disagree too vehemently.

Peyton has split the MVP before with McNair, so it would not be the first time for him to share the award.

We're talking about the MVP...not the Comeback Player of the Year award. Injuries have nothing to do with the MVP. I was only bringing up AD's knee injury to remind people that he he should just be making his return THIS WEEK. I understand Manning's injury was bad but he was off for a full calendar year before coming back. However the MVP discussion isn't about which injury was worse, it's about who is having the better year and who is more valuable to their team. AD wins the discussion so I see a lot of Manning fanboys (I'm not saying you) bringing up his neck injury to skirt around Peterson's HISTORIC year.

Manning came to a playoff ready team, a team that won a playoff game with TIM TEBOW the year before Manning got there. The Vikings won 6 games in 2010 and 3 games in 2011. The only reason they're not back in the cellar again this year is because Peterson has taken the offense on his back and willed them to the playoff race. Manning took over a good team and made them a bit better. If Peterson can't win the MVP this year just go ahead and rename it the "Most Valuable Quarterback on a Playoff Team" award.

 

[irishroo]

Can anyone tell me what sets Peyton apart from Brady or Rodgers this year? I keep hearing it's either Peyton or AD, but numbers-wise Manning is roughly on par with both Rodgers and Brady. All 3 play for legit Super Bowl contenders that made the playoffs last year. No doubt Peyton's having a great year, but is it really any better than what Brady and Rodgers are doing?

My vote goes to AD

 

[TCramer]

If you're giving it to the Most Valuable Player to ones respective team, it has to be Adrian Peterson this year, the guy is without a doubt the entire offense, he has a chance to break the single season rushing record, in a PASS dominated league. AP ALL DAY.

 

[IrishLax]

It's a really tough one between Adrian Peterson, Peyton Manning, and J.J. Watt IMO. I don't want to hear any arguments for Brady, I'm really not interested. Or Aaron Rodgers. Both are great players having per usual great seasons... but neither is doing anything comparable to Peterson, Manning, or Watt.

Peterson's year is just mind boggling and if he breaks the rushing record/the Vikes make the playoffs then he definitely deserves it. What if the Broncos finish 13-3 on an 11 game winning streak? That's pretty ridiculous too considering he's with a new team and took an entire year off from football.

And I might be in the minority here, but the fact that Watt has been so dominant and versatile on the DL I think really deserves a long, hard look. He's not just a pass rusher rusher who just puts up gaudy sack numbers, etc... he plays a multitude of different positions in the 3-4 and does all of them at an insanely high level. Using standard fantasy football IDP scoring (a good measure of aggregate "stats" by a defensive player) he has 70% more points than the next closest DL. That's INSANE. That's about the difference between Adrian Peterson and BenJarvus Green-Ellis for comparison's sake.

 

[irishroo]

It's a really tough one between Adrian Peterson, Peyton Manning, and J.J. Watt IMO. I don't want to hear any arguments for Brady, I'm really not interested. Or Aaron Rodgers. Both are great players having per usual great seasons... but neither is doing anything comparable to Peterson, Manning, or Watt.

Peterson's year is just mind boggling and if he breaks the rushing record/the Vikes make the playoffs then he definitely deserves it. What if the Broncos finish 13-3 on an 11 game winning streak? That's pretty ridiculous too considering he's with a new team and took an entire year off from football.

And I might be in the minority here, but the fact that Watt has been so dominant and versatile on the DL I think really deserves a long, hard look. He's not just a pass rusher rusher who just puts up gaudy sack numbers, etc... he plays a multitude of different positions in the 3-4 and does all of them at an insanely high level. Using standard fantasy football IDP scoring (a good measure of aggregate "stats" by a defensive player) he has 70% more points than the next closest DL. That's INSANE. That's about the difference between Adrian Peterson and BenJarvus Green-Ellis for comparison's sake.

The numbers disagree:

Brady: 355/560 (63.4%), 4,276 yards, 30 TDs, 6 INTs, 100.1 QB rating, 10-4 record
Rodgers: 317/474 (66.7%), 3,588 yards, 32 TDs, 8 INTs, 104.7 QB rating, 10-4 record
Manning: 347/511 (67.9%), 4,016 yards, 31 TDs, 10 INTs, 103.5 QB rating, 11-3 record

Seem pretty comparable to me

 

[IrishLax]

The numbers disagree:

Brady: 355/560 (63.4%), 4,276 yards, 30 TDs, 6 INTs, 100.1 QB rating, 10-4 record
Rodgers: 317/474 (66.7%), 3,588 yards, 32 TDs, 8 INTs, 104.7 QB rating, 10-4 record
Manning: 347/511 (67.9%), 4,016 yards, 31 TDs, 10 INTs, 103.5 QB rating, 11-3 record

Seem pretty comparable to me

Right, because those are vanilla numbers with no context. Which was kinda the point. Adrian Peterson is taking a crappy team to playoff contention with a historic year. Peyton Manning is taking a team that sucked for the last couple seasons to 11-3 and on a 9-0 run since the team started to jell. J.J. Watt is being J.J. Watt.

Most VALUABLE Player. Belichik already proved that Brady is only a little bit more valuable than Matt Cassell and the only way you can consider giving Brady the award is if he was blowing away the rest of the league in stats and Ws. He's the product of a great system that fits his strengths. Rodgers really isn't having a great year and context to his stats shows as much... regardless of what you think of ESPN's QBR stat, which is a lot of hokum but at least an attempt to put context to things, Rodgers is right in the middle of the pack of top QBs, and nowhere near Manning.

 

[irishroo]

Right, because those are vanilla numbers with no context. Which was kinda the point. Adrian Peterson is taking a crappy team to playoff contention with a historic year. Peyton Manning is taking a team that sucked for the last couple seasons to 11-3 and on a 9-0 run since the team started to jell. J.J. Watt is being J.J. Watt.

Most VALUABLE Player. Belichik already proved that Brady is only a little bit more valuable than Matt Cassell and the only way you can consider giving Brady the award is if he was blowing away the rest of the league in stats and Ws. He's the product of a great system that fits his strengths. Rodgers really isn't having a great year and context to his stats shows as much... regardless of what you think of ESPN's QBR stat, which is a lot of hokum but at least an attempt to put context to things, Rodgers is right in the middle of the pack of top QBs, and nowhere near Manning.

Well Brady already has 2 MVPs, so clearly voters don't feel the same way as you regarding him being the product of a system (although i am inclined to take this position as well; if Brady gets drafted by the Falcons, we've probably never heard of him). The Rodgers argument makes no sense though, its not even an argument. You just say that Rodgers isn't having a great year but provide no justification for it at all. Why is Rodgers just average this year?

 

[IrishLax]

Well Brady already has 2 MVPs, so clearly voters don't feel the same way as you regarding him being the product of a system (although i am inclined to take this position as well; if Brady gets drafted by the Falcons, we've probably never heard of him).

Well that's only half of what I said, the other half was "you can consider giving Brady the award if he's blowing away the rest of the league in stats and Ws" which in his two MVP years...

2007: 16-0, broke record for TD passes in a season.
2010: 36 TDs to only 4 INTs... and one of the top 5 passer ratings in the history of QBs.

The Rodgers argument makes no sense though, its not even an argument. You just say that Rodgers isn't having a great year but provide no justification for it at all. Why is Rodgers just average this year?

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here at all. I clearly said that when you review his stats with context using ESPN's QBR he's right in the middle of the pack of top QBs and nowhere close to Manning. How is that not justification? Did you need me to link to you the QBR ratings from this year? QBR even includes a big time bump for Rodgers for his running prowess. Yeah, he's having a really good top 5 year. No, his year is not MVP worthy compared to other candidates.

 

[woolybug25]

Obviously a lot of you are liking AP in this, but let me ask you this;

AP's Vikings play Houston and GB in the next two weeks. They will be heavy underdogs and even losing one of those games will cost them a chance at the playoffs. Also, both Houston and GB have good run defenses, so AP not breaking Dickerson's record is quite plausible.

If they lose both and AP falls short of the record, are you still picking him over a guy like Peyton that had a great season not only personally, but also for his team. The same team that will be getting a first round bye in the upcoming playoffs.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Obviously a lot of you are liking AP in this, but let me ask you this;

AP's Vikings play Houston and GB in the next two weeks. They will be heavy underdogs and even losing one of those games will cost them a chance at the playoffs. Also, both Houston and GB have good run defenses, so AP not breaking Dickerson's record is quite plausible.

If they lose both and AP falls short of the record, are you still picking him over a guy like Peyton that had a great season not only personally, but also for his team. The same team that will be getting a first round bye in the upcoming playoffs.

Minnesota was a -9 underdog on the road vs Green Bay on 12/2. The most I could I see Vegas giving the Packers in Minnesota is 3 points. That is not what I would consider a heavy underdog. Minnesota has only one lose at home this season on a Thursday night game(which in my opinion needs to end). Honestly, I feel Minnesota depending on how they play vs the Texans could be favorites possibly going into the Green Bay game(probably not though)

If they make the playoffs hes the MVP, if they don't Peyton is. That is really what I think it will come down to.

 

[irishog77]

Obviously a lot of you are liking AP in this, but let me ask you this;

AP's Vikings play Houston and GB in the next two weeks. They will be heavy underdogs and even losing one of those games will cost them a chance at the playoffs. Also, both Houston and GB have good run defenses, so AP not breaking Dickerson's record is quite plausible.

If they lose both and AP falls short of the record, are you still picking him over a guy like Peyton that had a great season not only personally, but also for his team. The same team that will be getting a first round bye in the upcoming playoffs.

Interesting question. I guess part of it for me is, does he still have great games the next 2 weeks and misses the record by 11 yards...or does he lay 2 eggs and misses the record by 190 yards? In the first scenario, I still would absolutely give it to him. In the 2nd scenario, I would have to see the other contenders' final 2 games and final stats. Speaking blindly right now, I would probably(?) still say Peterson. Manning, Brady, and Rodgers are all having very good seasons right now, but nothing eye-popping like we've seen them and Brees and Warner put up in recent memory. But we've still got 1 legitimate week for them to play and maybe 2 legitimate weeks. That's another factor that may help Peterson-- he and his team should be playing balls to the wall for 2 more weeks, while those others may really only have 4, 5 quarters of meaningful football left. I think, in a way, Manning and Brady are victims of their own success. What are we seeing from them this year that we haven't already seen from them? Team wins another 11-12 games, 4,000 yards, 30+ TD's-- check, check, and check.

Sidenote-- The AFC South blogger for ESPN, Paul Kuharsky (sp?), is also on a radio show in Nashville. He brought up today that when CJ ran for 2,000 yards a few years ago, he didn't receive a single MVP vote. Granted, the Titans weren't really ever a playoff threat that year, but that seems mind-boggling to me-- not 1 vote. Of course he won the Offensive Player of the Year Award, but still.

So anyway, Wooly, yeah, I'd probably vote for him, but ask me again in 2 weeks and I'll have a more definite answer.

 

[ickythump1225]

Right, because those are vanilla numbers with no context. Which was kinda the point. Adrian Peterson is taking a crappy team to playoff contention with a historic year. Peyton Manning is taking a team that sucked for the last couple seasons to 11-3 and on a 9-0 run since the team started to jell. J.J. Watt is being J.J. Watt.

Most VALUABLE Player. Belichik already proved that Brady is only a little bit more valuable than Matt Cassell and the only way you can consider giving Brady the award is if he was blowing away the rest of the league in stats and Ws. He's the product of a great system that fits his strengths. Rodgers really isn't having a great year and context to his stats shows as much... regardless of what you think of ESPN's QBR stat, which is a lot of hokum but at least an attempt to put context to things, Rodgers is right in the middle of the pack of top QBs, and nowhere near Manning.

To be fair you can say that about 95%+ of all QBs. If Brady gets drafted by the Browns and Brady Quinn gets put on the Patriots I think they both would have VERY different careers at this point. If Aaron Rodgers gets drafted by the Detroit Lions is he considered an elite QB or is he just another decent QB on a mediocre team? Kurt Warner was legendary throwing to Bruce and Holt/Fitzgerald and Boldin but struggled mightily on a mediocre Giants team. Matt Cassel looked like a future All-Pro throwing to Moss and Welker in the Patriots system but has since proved to be a less than stellar QB in KC.

Even Peyton Manning is a product of his team and system. Sure he switched teams but some of you guys are acting like he went to the Jacksonville Jaguars or the KC Chiefs. He went to a playoff team with a decent line and some offensive firepower. Manning was fortunate to play for a franchise that was willing to build around him and was smart enough to know how to do it. Brady Quinn and scores of other QBs played on teams that either refused to build around them or weren't smart enough to know how to do it. Some of these "god like" QBs would look much more mortal if you took away their brilliant coaches, smart front office, strong offensive lines, and offensive weapons. I'm not saying you could plug Spergon Wynn on the Packers or the Patriots and they wouldn't experience a drop off but to act like these QBs succeed on their own in a vacuum just isn't correct.

 

[ickythump1225]

Obviously a lot of you are liking AP in this, but let me ask you this;

AP's Vikings play Houston and GB in the next two weeks. They will be heavy underdogs and even losing one of those games will cost them a chance at the playoffs. Also, both Houston and GB have good run defenses, so AP not breaking Dickerson's record is quite plausible.

If they lose both and AP falls short of the record, are you still picking him over a guy like Peyton that had a great season not only personally, but also for his team. The same team that will be getting a first round bye in the upcoming playoffs.

And the same team that beat the Steelers last year in the playoffs. He didn't walk onto the Jags...he walked onto a pretty damn good team.

The Vikings have exceeded their expected win total already by at least 5 wins and by the end of the year it could be 6-7 wins and the driving force behind that is Adrian Peterson. I mean obviously if just falls flat on his face it would change things but what if Peyton Manning assumes (his) playoff form two games early and falls apart?

 

[irishroo]

Well that's only half of what I said, the other half was "you can consider giving Brady the award if he's blowing away the rest of the league in stats and Ws" which in his two MVP years...

2007: 16-0, broke record for TD passes in a season.
2010: 36 TDs to only 4 INTs... and one of the top 5 passer ratings in the history of QBs.



I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here at all. I clearly said that when you review his stats with context using ESPN's QBR he's right in the middle of the pack of top QBs and nowhere close to Manning. How is that not justification? Did you need me to link to you the QBR ratings from this year? QBR even includes a big time bump for Rodgers for his running prowess. Yeah, he's having a really good top 5 year. No, his year is not MVP worthy compared to other candidates.

My fault, I thought ESPN QBR and QB rating (for which Rodgers is #1 in the NFL) were the same thing. That being said, I still don't think it's fair to say Manning is having a significantly better season than either Brady or Rodgers. Manning is #1 in QBR, Brady #3, Rodgers #5. Manning also has the luxury of having the #4 defense in the NFL, while GB is tied for 14th and NE is at 27th. I'm not saying Peyton is undeserving or even that he's not the best QB in the NFL right now, I'm just saying I don't think it's as much of a slam dunk as a lot of you guys make it out to be

 

[Giroux]

jay cutler

 

[IrishLax]

My fault, I thought ESPN QBR and QB rating (for which Rodgers is #1 in the NFL) were the same thing. That being said, I still don't think it's fair to say Manning is having a significantly better season than either Brady or Rodgers. Manning is #1 in QBR, Brady #3, Rodgers #5. Manning also has the luxury of having the #4 defense in the NFL, while GB is tied for 14th and NE is at 27th. I'm not saying Peyton is undeserving or even that he's not the best QB in the NFL right now, I'm just saying I don't think it's as much of a slam dunk as a lot of you guys make it out to be

Fair enough, on pure unadjusted body of work Rodgers and Brady clearly stack up close to Manning in what they've done so far this season.

 

[IrishLax]

To be fair you can say that about 95%+ of all QBs. If Brady gets drafted by the Browns and Brady Quinn gets put on the Patriots I think they both would have VERY different careers at this point. If Aaron Rodgers gets drafted by the Detroit Lions is he considered an elite QB or is he just another decent QB on a mediocre team? Kurt Warner was legendary throwing to Bruce and Holt/Fitzgerald and Boldin but struggled mightily on a mediocre Giants team. Matt Cassel looked like a future All-Pro throwing to Moss and Welker in the Patriots system but has since proved to be a less than stellar QB in KC.

For sure, but I almost think the Kurt Warner argument goes against your point though a little. When he left town, the QBs that followed him weren't able to replicate his success at all. When Brady went down, as you said, Matt Cassel came in and the offense hardly missed a beat. And we all know how utterly awful Cassel is. All I was saying is that to give it to Brady he has to be doing something remarkable... not just really really good. Because you expect really really good based on his system, etc. This year he hasn't really separated himself from the other top QBs.

Even Peyton Manning is a product of his team and system. Sure he switched teams but some of you guys are acting like he went to the Jacksonville Jaguars or the KC Chiefs. He went to a playoff team with a decent line and some offensive firepower. Manning was fortunate to play for a franchise that was willing to build around him and was smart enough to know how to do it. Brady Quinn and scores of other QBs played on teams that either refused to build around them or weren't smart enough to know how to do it. Some of these "god like" QBs would look much more mortal if you took away their brilliant coaches, smart front office, strong offensive lines, and offensive weapons. I'm not saying you could plug Spergon Wynn on the Packers or the Patriots and they wouldn't experience a drop off but to act like these QBs succeed on their own in a vacuum just isn't correct.

"Playoff team" is a loose term. They went 8-8 last year after starting 2-5 thanks to largely dumb luck and "Tebow magic"... they change one player and they're on the precipice of 13-3 with wins in 11 straight. That's why I think in the argument of most VALUABLE player he has an edge... because regardless of what you want to say about Denver, this team is BY FAR better than any team over the last few years... 4-12 in 2010, 8-8 in 2009, etc... and the big difference is the addition of one Peyton Manning who somehow came in and taught everyone his own offense.

 

[TCramer]

Why isn't Calvin Johnson on here? He's about to break Jerry Rices single season receiving record. I know his team isn't playoff bound, is that the only reason? But should at least be in the talks in my opinion.

 

[arrowryan]

It will be a crime if it isn't Adrian Peterson. The guy is a machine out there

 

[woolybug25]

Minnesota was a -9 underdog on the road vs Green Bay on 12/2. The most I could I see Vegas giving the Packers in Minnesota is 3 points. That is not what I would consider a heavy underdog. Minnesota has only one lose at home this season on a Thursday night game(which in my opinion needs to end). Honestly, I feel Minnesota depending on how they play vs the Texans could be favorites possibly going into the Green Bay game(probably not though)

If they make the playoffs hes the MVP, if they don't Peyton is. That is really what I think it will come down to.

Double digit underdog in the NFL is a huge spread. Its not college where you see 20 point spreads every week. A double digit spread in the NFL means a team is heavily favored.


My guess, exactly what I mentioned will happen. AP will face two good run D's. Lose both games and miss the record/playoffs. In my opinion, that is just a really good year, not an MVP year. As someone else mentioned, it's not like CJohnson got the MVP for when he chased his record. Lets be real, the fact that AP is chasing Dickerson's record is the underlying reasoning behind his MVP consideration. He isn't propelling his team into the playoffs and he could easily miss that record. Then what? Give the MVP to a runningback on a bad football team just because he had a good statistical year?

 

[ickythump1225]

Double digit underdog in the NFL is a huge spread. Its not college where you see 20 point spreads every week. A double digit spread in the NFL means a team is heavily favored.


My guess, exactly what I mentioned will happen. AP will face two good run D's. Lose both games and miss the record/playoffs. In my opinion, that is just a really good year, not an MVP year. As someone else mentioned, it's not like CJohnson got the MVP for when he chased his record. Lets be real, the fact that AP is chasing Dickerson's record is the underlying reasoning behind his MVP consideration. He isn't propelling his team into the playoffs and he could easily miss that record. Then what? Give the MVP to a runningback on a bad football team just because he had a good statistical year?

My main problem with your argument is you're just assuming things will happen and basing your whole argument off what you think will happen as if it's already come to pass. You're acting as if the Vikings losing and AD having two bad games is a given. The Vikings were a few bad Ponder plays away from beating the Packers in their own house and we beat the vaunted 49ers earlier in the year. The Vikings could lose both games of course but we could split the games or even *gasp* win both games. Win or lose though the idea that Peterson is just going to get shut down two straight games is not likely at all.

I can just as easily project forth my own biases and act like they've already happened. What if Playoff Peyton Manning makes an early appearance and Manning has two bad games. What if Manning throws 7 interceptions over the next two weeks and the Broncos lose both games? What if Manning hits his head before the game on Sunday and thinks that it's a playoff game and has a horrible game?

The point is RIGHT NOW, after 14 games, Peterson has had the best season in football. What he has accomplished in a "quarterback driven league" is superior to the season Manning has had to this point. Peterson is more valuable to this team than Manning is right now.

AP will face two good run D's. Lose both games and miss the record/playoffs.

Two good run D's? Did you miss the game a few weeks ago where Peterson torched the "good run D" of the Packers to the tune of 210 yards in their home field? Houston has a pretty good run defense but they did just give up 100+ to Ballard on Indy...they are not some unstoppable force.

 

[ickythump1225]

For sure, but I almost think the Kurt Warner argument goes against your point though a little. When he left town, the QBs that followed him weren't able to replicate his success at all. When Brady went down, as you said, Matt Cassel came in and the offense hardly missed a beat. And we all know how utterly awful Cassel is. All I was saying is that to give it to Brady he has to be doing something remarkable... not just really really good. Because you expect really really good based on his system, etc. This year he hasn't really separated himself from the other top QBs.



"Playoff team" is a loose term. They went 8-8 last year after starting 2-5 thanks to largely dumb luck and "Tebow magic"... they change one player and they're on the precipice of 13-3 with wins in 11 straight. That's why I think in the argument of most VALUABLE player he has an edge... because regardless of what you want to say about Denver, this team is BY FAR better than any team over the last few years... 4-12 in 2010, 8-8 in 2009, etc... and the big difference is the addition of one Peyton Manning who somehow came in and taught everyone his own offense.

Nonsense. This wasn't a team that got waxed in their first game of the playoffs. They won a playoff game against the Steelers. They went 7-4 under Tebow with a playoff win. He didn't take over the worst team in football so lets stop acting like he took over the Jaguars or some team devoid of talent and coaching.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Double digit underdog in the NFL is a huge spread. Its not college where you see 20 point spreads every week. A double digit spread in the NFL means a team is heavily favored.


My guess, exactly what I mentioned will happen. AP will face two good run D's. Lose both games and miss the record/playoffs. In my opinion, that is just a really good year, not an MVP year. As someone else mentioned, it's not like CJohnson got the MVP for when he chased his record. Lets be real, the fact that AP is chasing Dickerson's record is the underlying reasoning behind his MVP consideration. He isn't propelling his team into the playoffs and he could easily miss that record. Then what? Give the MVP to a runningback on a bad football team just because he had a good statistical year?

I understand. But my point is that they were 9 point underdogs on the road to Green Bay. They pushed, and honestly if you watched had numerous chances to win(CP7 having the worst game of his career didn't help). You said in the original post that they would be heavy underdogs in both games. I'm not understanding how you're coming to that conclusion. Like I said previously, the most I could see Vegas giving the packers on the road, in the dome, is 3. In my opinion smart money would be on the vikings. Either way I appreciate the response, and all your posts on here Wooly. Similar to the Heisman, I believe they're two very deserving winners, and just like the Heisman one of them happens to be on my favorite team so i'm biased.

 

[Nothingman]

I'm surprised there isn't more support for Watt. He is having one of the best years for a D-lineman in history, if not the best. He already has the record for most single season sacks by a 3-4 lineman (19.5) and is chasing the all-time record. As mentioned earlier he doesn't just come flying off the edge every down either, he is stout on the interior. The 15 defended passes are obscene for his position and he plays for a 12-2 football team.

 

[woolybug25]

My main problem with your argument is you're just assuming things will happen and basing your whole argument off what you think will happen as if it's already come to pass. You're acting as if the Vikings losing and AD having two bad games is a given. The Vikings were a few bad Ponder plays away from beating the Packers in their own house and we beat the vaunted 49ers earlier in the year. The Vikings could lose both games of course but we could split the games or even *gasp* win both games. Win or lose though the idea that Peterson is just going to get shut down two straight games is not likely at all.

I can just as easily project forth my own biases and act like they've already happened. What if Playoff Peyton Manning makes an early appearance and Manning has two bad games. What if Manning throws 7 interceptions over the next two weeks and the Broncos lose both games? What if Manning hits his head before the game on Sunday and thinks that it's a playoff game and has a horrible game?

The point is RIGHT NOW, after 14 games, Peterson has had the best season in football. What he has accomplished in a "quarterback driven league" is superior to the season Manning has had to this point. Peterson is more valuable to this team than Manning is right now.


Two good run D's? Did you miss the game a few weeks ago where Peterson torched the "good run D" of the Packers to the tune of 210 yards in their home field? Houston has a pretty good run defense but they did just give up 100+ to Ballard on Indy...they are not some unstoppable force.

Geez, somebody must be a Vikes fan. lol

I never acted like my hypothetical was a sure thing. I even specifically stated that it wasn't. So I think you are putting words into my mouth on that one. But I did say that it was probable, which spreads/history/statistics certainly favor this scenario. I don't know how anyone would say that it is likely that the Vikes win both and AP gets the record. Maybe he will, but it is more likely to not happen that way. I think all of that has to happen for them to make the playoffs as well.

Also, in regards to your "Peterson is more valuable to his team" argument. What good is that if they miss the playoffs? Guess what... Larry Fitzgerald is the most important player to his team. Should he get votes? What about Calvin Johnson? He is approaching a record himself and is the most important player on his team. No?... ok

 

[ickythump1225]

Geez, somebody must be a Vikes fan. lol

I never acted like my hypothetical was a sure thing. I even specifically stated that it wasn't. So I think you are putting words into my mouth on that one. But I did say that it was probable, which spreads/history/statistics certainly favor this scenario. I don't know how anyone would say that it is likely that the Vikes win both and AP gets the record. Maybe he will, but it is more likely to not happen that way. I think all of that has to happen for them to make the playoffs as well.

Also, in regards to your "Peterson is more valuable to his team" argument. What good is that if they miss the playoffs? Guess what... Larry Fitzgerald is the most important player to his team. Should he get votes? What about Calvin Johnson? He is approaching a record himself and is the most important player on his team. No?... ok

Yes but Peterson's team is in the thick of the playoff hunt. Arizona and Detroit are far from playoff contention but if they were I'd entertain arguments for them.

For what it's worth I think it's more likely that Peterson breaks the record than the Vikings make the playoffs. However I think 9-7 should be a good enough record to become the MVP. I think the Vikes must win at least one more game for Peterson (in the minds of most voters) to garner enough votes to win the MVP.

 

[ickythump1225]

I'm surprised there isn't more support for Watt. He is having one of the best years for a D-lineman in history, if not the best. He already has the record for most single season sacks by a 3-4 lineman (19.5) and is chasing the all-time record. As mentioned earlier he doesn't just come flying off the edge every down either, he is stout on the interior. The 15 defended passes are obscene for his position and he plays for a 12-2 football team.

If AD wasn't having a historic year I'd vote for Watt.