ND- OSU post game thread

NDohio

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Chris Wilson's post game report:

1) The early stages of Marcus Freeman’s tenure have been particularly vibes-based, considering last year’s Offseason Championship Banners and the sense coming into Saturday that it could and perhaps most likely would be a coronation. “If not now, when?” and the idea of being due is sadly not how this sport works even if it feels like it should. No one loves analyzing narrative arcs and ethereal ripples more than I do but there seemed to be a sense after the first three games that the Irish had solved college football because Freeman, Sam Hartman and this team were so easy to root for, therefore they would just keep winning comfortably and life would be easy. No matter how fun the recruits you receive verbal commitments from during the week are¹, it doesn’t mask concerns about the lack of true blue-chip safety talent or answer lingering questions about the pass rush and wide receiver.

All that said, it was so close to being a coronation, and by a lot of metrics Notre Dame outplayed the Buckeyes, making this even more painful because it was right there. It breaks one’s brain to consider the many different ways it could have ended in a positive fashion if a single play out of a dozen or so was flipped. Heck, they still came within inches of a goal line stop to secure victory despite being a man down, which would have been a tragicomic achievement. The 10 players on the field mistake will stick with Freeman until he notches a truly landmark win, and even then, it’ll unfortunately linger every time there is a late-game coaching wobble. People love to say things like “simply inexcusable” and that’s usually heat-of-the-moment hyperbole but not in this case.

There is a universe out there where the Irish cap off a perfect day with a 14-10 win and we’re talking about how the Freeman Era has truly arrived. Alas, it is not ours. This is a much more painful plane of existence and there’s no way to sugarcoat the disappointment of that result nor downplay the raising of the stakes for the rest of the way. While the first traces of cracks are starting to appear, there is still so much goodwill for Freeman, but the next few weeks are a massive test for his handle of the team. If you can stomach it, let’s talk about how we got into this position.

2) Stuff that went wrong: The offensive game plan had some interesting wrinkles (the fake-handoff, the double-fake receiver screen, the amount of two-back sets) but overall was conservative and didn’t really give Sam Hartman many opportunities to make big plays. Where were the shots? I was feeling this even before finding out the Irish only did play-action on three of the 26 dropbacks despite all that running?! What are we doing here, folks? Very strange. It wasn’t a strategy that made sense for a guy with Hartman’s abilities unless we get deeper into the season and we find out this Buckeye defense is an all-timer but I do not know about that.

Specifically, the fourth down play calls were too cute (glad the Buckeyes tried to match, with a wide receiver sweep on one of their failed conversions), particularly when Audric Estime exists, we know Mitchell Evans can handle the sneaks and there is a Gi’Bran Payne wildcat package that worked at the goal line. The final real offensive drive started so promisingly but they got adventurous two plays in a row and let Ohio State off the hook with too much time and a timeout. Do not throw that second down ball anywhere near J.T. Tuimoloau.

Al Golden is either the unluckiest guy in the world or has a poor feel for game situations. Some of the decisions are clearly wrong (why are you blitzing Benjamin Morrison?) but then you have a ball getting deflected up in the air that could easily be picked off that ends up as a first down, even before accounting for the rotten fumble bounces this season. This has been an occasional theme with Golden where the overall numbers look totally fine — 17 points, under 6 yards per play, 38% success rate allowed (only 33rd percentile for Buckeyes) — but there isn’t a big splash play to really affect the game (similar to last year in Columbus and the Stanford loss). Is this a lack of true NFL guys, the scheme or the most likely answer of both? That coverage on the 3rd and 19 is going to haunt me.

3) Some positives because this was one play from being a win due to the following performances: Benjamin Morrison is so good, holy shit. If he had reeled in that falling down circus pick in the corner at the end it would have been a replay they showed forever but an incredible game going against guys he’ll see on Sundays in a couple years. Javontae Jean-Baptiste and Howard Cross played nearly every snap and were great -- my heart breaks for Jean-Baptiste who had the game of his life against his old team. Jaylen Sneed is so explosive and once he's a little more comfortable doing normal linebacker things in addition to being an absolute terror of a pass rusher we’re going to have a really good one. The pair of fourth down stops were exhilarating.

How many players in their first year of eligibility had huge impacts on offense? Jaden Greathouse is the guy, Rico Flores shook a Buckeye out of his shoes for what should have been the game-winning score, Jeremiyah Love is so fast and cool, Jadarian Price yes absolutely, I thought Gi’Bran Payne might be the back to fall out of the rotation once business picked up but it was the opposite. And what a game by Mitchell Evans, who has made the most of every single opportunity. Overall offensive line played very well, particularly in the second half when the Irish started leaning on them. They almost did enough to make it special. Sigh.

Both of the decisions to go for it on fourth down were correct, and the choice to kick made sense. The fourth down calls being sketchy failures and the kick going wide doesn’t mean the game management process was wrong. We get in situations where there are clear things to point to that the coaches messed up and it snowballs into “They did everything wrong!!” and that was not the case on Saturday despite so much overthinking in so many areas.

That result sucked but it does not change the fact that in the macro this program, when you look at the young guns playing so well already and the verbally committed recruits in the pipeline, seems to be getting better. I would one hundred percent rather be saying this after a win and I extend all love and prayers to Irish fans in Ohio who have to deal with this for eternity but the arrow still appears to be pointing up. If there are seismic shifts between now and the new year, we will reassess this position. I am not saying you should feel good about that game in any way, just take three seconds to imagine the sliding door where that’s a 14-10 win and how you would feel about the state of things before the pain of that possibility causes psychic damage.


If you made it this far and need some more commiseration, a heads up that Jessica Smetana and I recorded an episode hitting many of these themes you can listen to on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.


4) Ryan Day, be less weird my dude. An old man who’s been actively disowned by segments of your opponent’s fan base said some stuff in an interview with a guy who doesn’t wear sleeves? Relax. Horrific officiating, again. If there were an actual organizing body governing college football they would have abolished conference-based referees and created a national pool with oversight but what can you do I suppose. Intensely jealous of everyone who got some tailgating in, I am sorry you didn’t get a perfect day and it ended like that. Thought the broadcast crew was fine. The fact NBC’s primetime game this week is Sparty vs. Iowa is hilarious.

While I would prefer Notre Dame win every game by 40 points for my mental and emotional health, in situations like these I will concede I get some perverse enjoyment out of monitoring the dark sociological experiment known as “Notre Dame fans process a loss without the ability to blame Brian Kelly and Tommy Rees,” which made dealing with these kinds of situations so easy for so many years. I will not broach the subject of what that game looks like with Ian Book considering the way the run game was cooking at times.

5) Winning Is Hard Recap: No one wants to be here and these are way more fun to do after wins so I was going to skip entirely but I would be remiss to not mention that Minnesota had a 31-10 fourth quarter lead against Northwestern (a team who hadn’t defeated a Power 5 opponent on American soil since 2021) and lost. There was plenty of other nonsense but wanted to sneak another note that's both monitoring a future opponent and making fun of Boston College: Louisville's Jack Plummer averaged nearly 20 yards per attempt against the Eagles on 18 of 21 passing.

6) There is no silver lining or close game medal or moral victory from that final score. It was there, it should have been taken and it wasn’t. It’s going to hurt for a really long time and there’s no argument to the contrary. But the season is going to keep going whether Notre Dame is ready for it to do so or not. Mike Elko, Riley Leonard and the fine folks down in Durham do not care that the team is gutted and its fans are sad. Jeff Brohm, Jamari Thrash and what will be a feisty crowd in Louisville have the same consideration. I highly doubt Caleb Williams will take it easy because we all woke up Sunday morning feeling like part of our souls had leaked out of our bodies before remembering why. If you want mercy or things to make sense at any point, you’re following the wrong sport.

Notre Dame is still a very good football team capable of going 11-1. I don’t know if that gets them into the playoff and don’t even really want to think about that now but I know for sure winning the next seven guarantees a lot*: Spoiling Duke’s first “GameDay,” ruining the Cardinals’ Super Bowl, keeping the home win streak alive against Southern Cal, denting Caleb Williams’ Heisman campaign, beating Pat Narduzzi, making it three of four against Clemson before a five-year break in the series, extending the Senior Day win streak and getting revenge on Stanford. Plenty remains on the table.

* We haven’t quoted Al around here in a while so it’s a good time for a core tenet of this operation: “Pain or damage don't end the world, or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man…and give some back.” I hope the next few weeks really emphasize the final three words.

We had the Blue Devils circled as a potential trap/hangover game all offseason and with the bright lights and bells and whistles there are no excuses for this team to overlook them, presenting another immediate test for Freeman in his second year. I’m glad he’s getting a crash course in dealing with different situations this early in his tenure but I do wish some of the lessons did not cause us so much pain personally.

Thanks for reading and if you didn’t and never see this message I very much respect a post-loss media blackout. Going to be a long week, so take care of yourselves and each other.
 

notredomer23

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One thing OSU did a great job of was mixing up their tempo on offense. There were a handful of plays where they caught the defense off guard by doing a quick snap in between plays taking it down to a couple a seconds. I know Tommy did that a bit last year, but would like to see ND do that more this year.
 

stlnd01

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Ohio State had 30 second half offensive snaps. Half of those were on the final drive. We probably started getting gassed the final drive, but I doubt you're bringing in new people all of a sudden on that drive. We held the ball the entire second half. Why onye wasn't in earlier, no clue. Why we can't have someone better than henderson in on dime packages, no clue.
It is wild how many plays Ohio State managed to run in the last 90 seconds. And they only had one time out which they used on the intentional grounding call. Every play was either incomplete, out of bounds or a first down.
 

PutuporShutup

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Chris Wilson's post game report:
Pretty good write up

It feels like our coaching staff is afraid of common sense, instead they feel like they'll outsmart everyone and that leads to looking like an idiot. I don't have a clue why they think that as our staff doesn't come across as extremely smart.

Fourth down play calls, no one pushing hartman, no play action, 10 men on the field twice in a row, no rush on 3rd and 19, a timeout before the 3rd and 19 and the team defends the goal line instead of the first down, first and 10 needing one first down to win the game and you run a fancy slow developing run play. WTF
 

Terry Jillery

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So I assume if we were in a conference, we’d still have a good shot at the playoffs, right? Say we are in the ACC, we still get a crack at FSU. The resume would get us in assuming we won out.
 

Lberry

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So I assume if we were in a conference, we’d still have a good shot at the playoffs, right? Say we are in the ACC, we still get a crack at FSU. The resume would get us in assuming we won out.
And we wouldn't have ref disadvantage, wouldn't have to play into BYEs, wouldn't have to have a forced 1st round playoff game, would have more annual revenue (if Big 10), the list is getting lopsided..

We get to play Stanford and Navy though, how exciting.
 

Free Manera

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The thing I keep getting pissed about is that the OSU defense was gassed and the O line was bullying them. We had Derrick Henry I mean Audric Estime back there, fresh because he didn't have that many carries. If you run it down hill at them 3 times and they stop it, fine. But getting cute in that situation when ND was the tougher team all day is so hard to stomach.

Hartman should have been taking a knee at the OSU 1 yard line.
 

stpeteirish

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It is wild how many plays Ohio State managed to run in the last 90 seconds. And they only had one time out which they used on the intentional grounding call. Every play was either incomplete, out of bounds or a first down.
they threw 8 incomplete passes on that drive! proving its possible to have plenty of good defensive plays on a drive and still blow the game.
 

PutuporShutup

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The thing I keep getting pissed about is that the OSU defense was gassed and the O line was bullying them. We had Derrick Henry I mean Audric Estime back there, fresh because he didn't have that many carries. If you run it down hill at them 3 times and they stop it, fine. But getting cute in that situation when ND was the tougher team all day is so hard to stomach.

Hartman should have been taking a knee at the OSU 1 yard line.
One more first down was all we needed to get, and like you said, they were gassed. It's like he dialed up two plays in a row to try and hit a TD when a first down was all that was needed for the win.
 

PutuporShutup

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they threw 8 incomplete passes on that drive! proving its possible to have plenty of good defensive plays on a drive and still blow the game.
not sure we had one good play all night when we went into a zone, yet there we were in the most important play of the game, in a frichan cover 4 zone.
 

Lberry

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We were this close to the narrative being "ND is a title contender". We have to sack up and realize MF is learning but has us ahead of schedule:

- DJ Brown catches one of two balls that hit both hands
- Harman doesn't throw into hands of #44 on screen (score 21-10 with minutes to go)
- Have 11 on field for last two plays
- JD doesn't get flagged on play with LESS interference than whatever OSU defender tackled Rico
- Stover doesn't catch ball tipped 7Xs.
 

stlnd01

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they threw 8 incomplete passes on that drive! proving its possible to have plenty of good defensive plays on a drive and still blow the game.
That's what I hate about passing. You only need to hit on one out of every four.

But, seriously, that's why getting pressure is so important in late-game situations. It significantly ups the odds of a sack or mistake that effectively ends the game. And we were doing it, until the 3rd and 19...
 

Terry Jillery

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One more first down was all we needed to get, and like you said, they were gassed. It's like he dialed up two plays in a row to try and hit a TD when a first down was all that was needed for the win.
Parker got cute/greedy/over zealous, whatever you want to call it. Overall he called a good game but when it mattered most his inexperience showed. This is why you hire Ludwig. Those big moments when the season is on the line and you brought in the best you could get to out coach Knowles and win the biggest game in 30 years. We will never again have Sam Hartman and Estime on the same roster. You have to get a first down and win the big game with your best players. Thanks Jack.
 

PutuporShutup

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That's what I hate about passing. You only need to hit on one out of every four.

But, seriously, that's why getting pressure is so important in late-game situations. It significantly ups the odds of a sack or mistake that effectively ends the game. And we were doing it, until the 3rd and 19...
There's two parts so wrong with the play, the fact we brought no pressure, and the fact we defended the goal line instead of the first down. This was what Freeman and Golden drew up after a frichan timeout. Unbelievable.
 

pumpdog20

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Two things I think after sitting on it..

-usually after these heartbreaks, ND plays a perfect game but just comes up short but we know the other team was just better. Fuck that here... I want a rematch tomorrow, because we were the better team in my mind. Get your rematch in the playoffs and boat race the fuck out of them.

-Washington and Golden need to "resign" at the end of the season. What they did the last two plays is a fireable offense, but but how the defense played up to that point allows them to finish the year.
 

PutuporShutup

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Parker got cute/greedy/over zealous, whatever you want to call it. Overall he called a good game but when it mattered most his inexperience showed. This is why you hire Ludwig. Those big moments when the season is in the line and you brought in the best you could get to out coach Knowles. We will never again have Sam Hartman and Estime in the same roster. You have to get a first down and win the big game. Thanks Jack.
agree, i can't get over this loss because IMO we were not slightly better than OSU, we were obviously better. Our oline dominated their Dline second half, hartman was picking them apart at times, our defense was holding them back except for one terrible fit by our LBs and watts missed tackle. Our coaches went full moron against ohio state to keep us at 14 points and give them their last TD. This is a game we should have won 21-10 and made a statement. But nope. We have a lot of coaches learning on the job.

We had 5 seasons before freeman where we beat every team we were better than. Freeman has now lost to 3 teams now we were better than. Marshall, stanford, and yes i'm including ohio state. Kelly and Freeman built a roster set up for a 2023 championship, 11-1 or better should be the expectation, 10-2 acceptable, 9-3 completely unacceptable. We already have 1 unacceptable loss, can't have another.
 
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IRISHDODGER

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So I assume if we were in a conference, we’d still have a good shot at the playoffs, right? Say we are in the ACC, we still get a crack at FSU. The resume would get us in assuming we won out.
Go 11-1 and let the chips fall where they may. This team’s psyche under MF needs to be restored to where it was prior to OSU. I have to hope that MF & staff can get them there starting yesterday. To get to 11-1, ND has to go into Duke & knock off the sexy upstart basketball school. Then it has to go into Louisville & face a QB they’ve faced two times prior with his 3rd team. He’s seemingly gotten better but I’m just going by stats. Then come home and try to contain Caleb Williams. If they did that, they’ll be 7-1 with four more games on the slate. One of which is in Death Valley under the lights (of course they let FSU play at noon…LOL) vs a team most of you dismiss b/c they have 2 losses & you don’t like Dabo. That’s fine, but to assume a blowout win over a wounded animal is a fool’s errand.

So…IF they can navigate to 11-1 they have parity in their favor. There’s still a chance a team could emerge who is head & shoulders above the rest but I don’t think we’ll know for sure b/c UGA & scUM play such a light schedule. The pushback will be that the committee won’t want a rematch of OSU & ND. I would counter they also don’t want to appear feckless and reward scUM & UGA for playing a bunch of tomato cans. (NOTE: yes…we all know OU had to back out of home/home w/ UGA due to conference affiliation).

As of today, I couldn’t care less about the CFP. Just go 11-1 and it’s a helluva year that goes a long way in covering the wound from Saturday with much needed scar tissue. NEVER FORGET!
 

IRISHDODGER

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Two things I think after sitting on it..

-usually after these heartbreaks, ND plays a perfect game but just comes up short but we know the other team was just better. Fuck that here... I want a rematch tomorrow, because we were the better team in my mind. Get your rematch in the playoffs and boat race the fuck out of them.

-Washington and Golden need to "resign" at the end of the season. What they did the last two plays is a fireable offense, but but how the defense played up to that point allows them to finish the year.
What gets me about Golden is ND fans were told MF hiring him brought in some HC experience that could help MF navigate the early stages of being a 1st time HC at a blue blood program. Has that truly happened? It didn’t Saturday night.
 

PutuporShutup

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What gets me about Golden is ND fans were told MF hiring him brought in some HC experience that could help MF navigate the early stages of being a 1st time HC at a blue blood program. Has that truly happened? It didn’t Saturday night.
your DC can help leading up to the game, but he can't be a mentor to freeman during the game. He's got enough to worry about with his entire group/staff not having a clue how to play with 11 players on the field.
 

IRISHDODGER

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your DC can help leading up to the game, but he can't be a mentor to freeman during the game. He's got enough to worry about with his entire group/staff not having a clue how to play with 11 players on the field.
I’m not talking about mentoring during a game. I’m talking about being a good delegator to his assistants so HC can focus on task at hand & not have to worry about all the little things. Freeman had reportedly removed his headset before the final two plays. WTH? Like it or not, he’s learning on the job and he took a huge step backwards this past Saturday. And save the micro-manager bit. Nobody likes to work for a micro manager…not even a micro manager. We see how it worked w/ Urban Meyer. He’s a miserable human being.
 

mrmcgrail

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It was just a huge failure at the end of the game playing cover 4 is fine but you can't let them get a first down on 3rd and 19 there you need to make a play even if it was an 18 yard gain they can't clock it you most likely win the game
 

Giddyup

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The end of the game was embarrassing. This one is going down in infamy
 

Giddyup

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Things like time management and playing with ten guys are maddening mistakes but part of the learning process. Rome wasn't but in a day
Playing with ten guys for two straight plays is not part of a learning process. That’s stupidity and peewee crap. He was a d coordinator and position coach too.
 

Terry Jillery

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As inexperienced as Freeman is, we probably don’t have Greathouse, Flores, Love, Hartman without him. So, we probably still lose with Fickell due to talent gap. But in a parallel universe where Fickell has this exact ND team, we win 20-10.
 

Free Manera

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What gets me about Golden is ND fans were told MF hiring him brought in some HC experience that could help MF navigate the early stages of being a 1st time HC at a blue blood program. Has that truly happened? It didn’t Saturday night.
Yeah that was a huge part of the hiring, allegedly. Yet I haven't heard it mentioned once since then. Maybe he is providing help behind the scenes, but I kind of doubt it.

Regardless, the consensus has always been this is Golden's last year because he wants to get back to either the NFL or a head coaching position.
 

IRISHMAN

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1. the offense played well but they needed to finish their drives.
2. ND needs to work on their 4th and 1s, why not give estime the ball in that situation.
3. mitch evans is good.
4. Jeremiyah love maybe/is the 2nd best rb on the roster.
5. i thought for sure dj brown was going to intercept that pass and end the game, man that hurt bad.
6. ND has ZERO pass rush (good luck with caleb williams), OSU passed 37 times and ND had zero sacks and only 4 qb pressures. that is horrible, ND needs to stop recruiting 3-star DL and do something to get more playmakers on the DL for ND.
7. on NDs last possession when hartman got sacked i dont understand why you dont run estime up the middle why try and get fancy with that double handoff play.
8. its been a long time since i felt this sick after a loss.
 
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