Media Matters

[Irish YJ]

Lolol

I think voter suppression is going to be taking on a new meaning moving forward

Between suppression polls and media blackouts, I'd strongly agree.

 

[Legacy]

Now It Can Be Told: How Neil Sheehan Got the Pentagon Papers

 

[Legacy]

GOP politicians lost tens of thousands of followers after Twitter purged QAnon accounts. Here's who lost the most. (Business Insider)

- More than 100,000 of Rep. Jim Jordan's and Sen. Rand Paul's followers were purged or defected. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy's Twitter following dropped by more than 80,000, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's dropped by more than 70,000.
- Reps. Clay Higgins and Devin Nunes lost the largest share of their followers, each shedding more than 15%.

 

[Irishize]

From AXIOS:

Media trust hits new low
Felix Salmon
Felix Salmon, author of Capital

Trust in traditional media has declined to an all-time low, and many news professionals are determined to do something about it.

Why it matters: Faith in society's central institutions, especially in government and the media, is the glue that holds society together. That glue was visibly dissolving a decade ago, and has now, for many millions of Americans, disappeared entirely.

By the numbers: For the first time ever, fewer than half of all Americans have trust in traditional media, according to data from Edelman's annual trust barometer shared exclusively with Axios. Trust in social media has hit an all-time low of 27%.

56% of Americans agree with the statement that "Journalists and reporters are purposely trying to mislead people by saying things they know are false or gross exaggerations."
58% think that "most news organizations are more concerned with supporting an ideology or political position than with informing the public."
When Edelman re-polled Americans after the election, the figures had deteriorated even further, with 57% of Democrats trusting the media and only 18% of Republicans.

The big picture: These numbers are echoed across the rest of the world: They're mostly not a function of Donald Trump's war on "fake news".

As vaccine rumor hunter Heidi Larson puts it, "we don’t have a misinformation problem, we have a trust problem.”
News organizations have historically relied mainly on advertising income, and as those dollars flow increasingly to Google and Facebook, that has created institutional weakness that shows up in trust data.
Reversing the decline is a monster task — and one that some journalists and news organizations have taken upon themselves. They're going to need help — perhaps from America's CEOs.

The catch: Mistrust of media is now a central part of many Americans' personal identity — an article of faith that they weren't argued into and can't be argued out of.

What they're saying:

Former Financial Times editor Lionel Barber talks of factual reporting as a means of "regaining the trust of the reading public".
Axios has a stated mission to "help restore trust in fact-based news".
Washington Post media columnist Margaret Sullivan writes that "our goal should go beyond merely putting truthful information in front of the public. We should also do our best to make sure it’s widely accepted."
How it works: Media outlets can continue to report reliable facts, but that won't turn the trend around on its own. What's needed is for trusted institutions to visibly embrace the news media.

CEOs (a/k/a the fourth branch of government) are at or near the top of Edelman's list of trusted institutions.
By the numbers: 61% of Trump voters say that they trust their employer's CEO. That compares to just 28% who trust government leaders, and a mere 21% who trust journalists.
The bottom line: CEOs have long put themselves forward as the people able to upgrade America's physical infrastructure. Now it's time for them to use the trust they've built up to help rebuild our civic infrastructure.

 

[drayer54]

From AXIOS:

A reminder about journos - This may have been the lie of the decade.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Let me say for the billionth time: Reporters don't root for a side. Period. <a href="https://t.co/dhH8eherOR">https://t.co/dhH8eherOR</a></p>— Chris Cillizza (@CillizzaCNN) <a href="https://twitter.com/CillizzaCNN/status/787801157355929600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Here's some journos yesterday:

The Atlantic-
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One of the simple enduring images of the day: Kamala Harris’s hair blowing in the wind as she took the oath. No one with longer hair (in other words: a woman) has ever taken the oath of office outside at the Capitol before, because she’s the first woman to ever do it</p>— Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) <a href="https://twitter.com/IsaacDovere/status/1352063296761901057?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 21, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

CNN
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After four years of struggling to explain to children why so much of what they were seeing around them was “unAmerican”, today really does feel like that teachable and inspiring moment.</p>— Bianna Golodryga (@biannagolodryga) <a href="https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1352070468526862343?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 21, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

NYT

White House Correspondent for CNN:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump—>Biden<br><br>lies—>truth<br>ignorance—>knowledge<br>amorality—>decency<br>cruelty—> empathy<br>corruption—>public service</p>— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1351917313205932032?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

WAPO
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Joe and Beau used to watch an eagle soar by the dock.<br><br>Now, when Biden steps to a lectern, he will be greeted by a presidential seal. It features as its most prominent symbol a bald eagle, a reminder both of what he has accomplished and what he has lost.<a href="https://t.co/KePRDZKmFf">https://t.co/KePRDZKmFf</a></p>— Matt Viser (@mviser) <a href="https://twitter.com/mviser/status/1351896904259563520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

ABC
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sunrise at the White House this morning. That’s it. That’s the tweet. <a href="https://t.co/Ij8Q79m0KQ">pic.twitter.com/Ij8Q79m0KQ</a></p>— Cecilia Vega (@CeciliaVega) <a href="https://twitter.com/CeciliaVega/status/1352234961051529216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 21, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

My personal favorite-
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">CNN's <a href="https://twitter.com/DavidChalian?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@DavidChalian</a> drools over Joe Biden, saying lights at the Reflecting Pool are like "extension" of Joe Biden's arms "embracing America." <a href="https://t.co/F6LuOfqlQe">pic.twitter.com/F6LuOfqlQe</a></p>— MRCTV (@mrctv) <a href="https://twitter.com/mrctv/status/1352000698938888194?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish#1]

Lights are like an extension of his arms. Media never fails to disappoint.

 

[Legacy]

Fox News, which was the first news outlet to call Arizona for Biden, has fired Chris Stirewalt, the veteran politics editor who was an onscreen face of the network’s election night projection reporting division. On Monday, Bill Sammon, Fox News’s longtime Washington bureau chief and who had editorial oversight of the network’s Decision Desk, told staff members that he would retire at the end of January. Trump criticized Fox for being disloyal and urged fans to watch Newsmax and One America News instead. Subsequent to the election, Fox has seen a drop in ratings with Newsmax seeing a ratings boost. At least, one columnist at Newsmax continued to push the stolen election claim.

Fox has replaced some of their news programming with right-wing opinion shows and tries to lure back viewers who balked at its coverage of the 2020 election and its aftermath. Fox is laying off at least 20 digital journalists also. Any perception that ratings and viewships drive content contributes to media distrust and perceived bias.

Both Fox and Newsmax did accurately reported SD Gov Kristi Noem's comments that Georgia's two new Senators were communists.
From the Fox article:

"The idea that Georgia, of all places, could elect two communists to the United States Senate was ridiculous," wrote Noem, a staunch Trump supporter who campaigned for Georgia’s Republican incumbents, David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler.
Just a day earlier, Noem used her gubernatorial Twitter account to denounce Wednesday’s storming of the U.S. Capitol, saying, "There are consequences for how we talk to each other in this country. Today, let’s all pray for healing and peace for our nation."

From the Newsmax article:

Amid a reckoning in the GOP over Trump’s actions, Noem has deflected blame from Trump and at times struck a combative tone against Democratic politicians. In the days after the Capitol insurrection, Noem falsely called the two Democrats who won Georgia's Senate elections “communists.”

She defended those remarks Thursday without going into specifics on her reasons for leveling the accusation.

“When we look at that situation with those two individuals we need to look at their history and what they have said and what they’ve chosen not to say," she said.

Both of the Georgia Republicans who ran against Democrats Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff tried to paint them as socialists, with David Perdue running ads that lobbed a false claim that Ossoff was endorsed by the Communist Party USA. A fact check by The Associated Press debunked that claim.

Hmm, the Newsmax article quoting the AP fact check debunking Noem's and the GOP candidates' claims against Warnock and Ossoff.

 

[irishff1014]

You’ll see a whole new media now.

 

[Irishize]

Fox News, which was the first news outlet to call Arizona for Biden, has fired Chris Stirewalt, the veteran politics editor who was an onscreen face of the network’s election night projection reporting division. On Monday, Bill Sammon, Fox News’s longtime Washington bureau chief and who had editorial oversight of the network’s Decision Desk, told staff members that he would retire at the end of January. Trump criticized Fox for being disloyal and urged fans to watch Newsmax and One America News instead. Subsequent to the election, Fox has seen a drop in ratings with Newsmax seeing a ratings boost. At least, one columnist at Newsmax continued to push the stolen election claim.

Fox has replaced some of their news programming with right-wing opinion shows and tries to lure back viewers who balked at its coverage of the 2020 election and its aftermath. Fox is laying off at least 20 digital journalists also. Any perception that ratings and viewships drive content contributes to media distrust and perceived bias.

Both Fox and Newsmax did accurately reported SD Gov Kristi Noem's comments that Georgia's two new Senators were communists.
From the Fox article:

From the Newsmax article:


Hmm, the Newsmax article quoting the AP fact check debunking Noem's and the GOP candidates' claims against Warnock and Ossoff.

That’s interesting and makes sense. Remember it’s a business. Put both parties aside for a moment...they will always be pitted against each other philosophically. Fox has clearly put a stake in the ground as being the “conservative news source” and CNN/MSNBC are clearly the “progressive news sources”. IMO, that’s what exacerbates the divide in the country.

I think the advent of cable news has us at this point. The cable news channels are 24/7 so they need as much content as possible to fill in the spots around the typical news broadcasts. So each network has filled that space with opinion shows. Since the opinion shows fill more time than the actual news reports, the network takes on the slant of whatever their opinion shows espouse. I have friends & colleagues who have sworn off all news b/c of bias. And I have some that live in their echo chamber based on their political leanings (“CNN is fake news!”, “Fox is Faux News!”).

Meanwhile, all Dems are “communists”, all Reps are “Nazis”, everyone is a “racist”. It’s sad that society has dumbed down these terms to the point that they’re thrown out against people simply for disagreeing. Neither “side” is immune to being guilty of this. Once everyone is either a Commie, a Nazi or a racist; how do we identify the true Commie, Nazi or racist?

 

[ulukinatme]

The Onion is in the real news business now?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">. <a href="https://twitter.com/nytimes?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@nytimes</a> Announces New Columnist Will Contribute Nothing To Society 3 Times A Week <a href="https://t.co/vrrn1t4QyS">https://t.co/vrrn1t4QyS</a> <a href="https://t.co/3xKxccaGYw">pic.twitter.com/3xKxccaGYw</a></p>— The Onion (@TheOnion) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1352751150999756802?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Legacy]

Here's a New York Times article, reporting

Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General

Fake News?

 

[ulukinatme]

Here's a New York Times article, reporting

Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General

Fake News?

Trump likes firing people, this isn't news.

It does get me curious...how many different administrative positions changed while he was in office?

 

[ulukinatme]

Hard hitting journalism here. Can't remember Trump's press secretaries fielding softballs like this, and this is at least the second one in two days along with the question about the Air Force One paint job.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">wow good question <a href="https://t.co/gLAtV46XUU">https://t.co/gLAtV46XUU</a></p>— tsar becket adams (@BecketAdams) <a href="https://twitter.com/BecketAdams/status/1352847225337085957?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Legacy]

Private messaging apps Signal and Telegram are red hot after the Capitol riots (Fortune)

The Inside Story of How Signal Became the Private Messaging App for an Age of Fear and Distrust (Time)

Ama Russell and Evamelo Oleita had never organized a protest before June. But as demonstrations against systemic racism and police brutality began to spread across the U.S. earlier this year, the two 17 year-olds from Michigan, both of whom are Black, were inspired to hold one of their own.

Seeking practical help, Oleita reached out to Michigan Liberation, a local civil rights group. The activist who replied told her to download the messaging app Signal. “They were saying that to be safe, they were using Signal now,” Oleita tells TIME. It turned out to be useful advice. “I think Signal became the most important tool for protesting for us,” she says. (cont)

Why full evidence of the plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Whitmer may never be known (Detroit Free Press)

Encrypted apps may keep the FBI from ever knowing if there is more documentation of the plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. (cont)

Michigan Police Messages Avoid FOIA Through Encryption (Governing)

Top officials at the Michigan State Police have been using text messaging encryption devices that can put their internal communications out of the reach of the Freedom of Information Act and legal discovery, according to admissions the MSP made in a civil lawsuit. (cont)

 

[ulukinatme]

I honestly don't have an opinion on the new trend of double or triple masking, but it's funny all the same that Babylon Bee articles are becoming real.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Another one of our <a href="https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheBabylonBee</a> prophecies fulfilled <a href="https://t.co/US8hY5gVSS">pic.twitter.com/US8hY5gVSS</a></p>— Kyle Mann/Womann (@The_Kyle_Mann) <a href="https://twitter.com/The_Kyle_Mann/status/1354225834198880256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 27, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish#1]

Here's a New York Times article, reporting

Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General

Fake News?

Not sure why you posted this? Everyone knows Trump likes to use strong arm tactics to get his way and was doing everything he could think of to overturn the election results. Like Ulukinatme said, he likes firing people. I'm also curious to how many he forced out, plus how many resigned because they tired of his antics?

 

[Legacy]

Not sure why you posted this? Everyone knows Trump likes to use strong arm tactics to get his way and was doing everything he could think of to overturn the election results. Like Ulukinatme said, he likes firing people. I'm also curious to how many he forced out, plus how many resigned because they tired of his antics?

You and Ulukinatme read:

Mr. Rosen and Mr. Donoghue pressed ahead, informing Steven Engel, the head of the Justice Department’s office of legal counsel, about Mr. Clark’s latest maneuver. Mr. Donoghue convened a late-afternoon call with the department’s remaining senior leaders, laying out Mr. Clark’s efforts to replace Mr. Rosen.

Mr. Rosen planned to soon head to the White House to discuss his fate, Mr. Donoghue told the group. Should Mr. Rosen be fired, they all agreed to resign en masse. For some, the plan brought to mind the so-called Saturday Night Massacre of the Nixon era, where Attorney General Elliot L. Richardson and his deputy resigned rather than carry out the president’s order to fire the special prosecutor investigating him.

The Clark plan, the officials concluded, would seriously harm the department, the government and the rule of law. For hours, they anxiously messaged and called one another as they awaited Mr. Rosen’s fate.

Around 6 p.m., Mr. Rosen, Mr. Donoghue and Mr. Clark met at the White House with Mr. Trump, Mr. Cipollone, his deputy Patrick Philbin and other lawyers. Mr. Trump had Mr. Rosen and Mr. Clark present their arguments to him.

Mr. Cipollone advised the president not to fire Mr. Rosen and he reiterated, as he had for days, that he did not recommend sending the letter to Georgia lawmakers. Mr. Engel advised Mr. Trump that he and the department’s remaining top officials would resign if he fired Mr. Rosen, leaving Mr. Clark alone at the department.

Jeffrey A. Rosen is acting attorney general and Richard P. Donoghue is deputy attorney general. Trump could have fired everyone except Clark for a leadership of the Justice Department of one, who would then advocate for stopping Congress from certifying the Electoral College results for President. Constitutional crisis, anyone? Everyone knows Trump has no regard for the Constitution.

 

[ulukinatme]

I honestly don't have an opinion on the new trend of double or triple masking, but it's funny all the same that Babylon Bee articles are becoming real.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Another one of our <a href="https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheBabylonBee</a> prophecies fulfilled <a href="https://t.co/US8hY5gVSS">pic.twitter.com/US8hY5gVSS</a></p>— Kyle Mann/Womann (@The_Kyle_Mann) <a href="https://twitter.com/The_Kyle_Mann/status/1354225834198880256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 27, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Damn Bee is on a roll! This is like the third one in the last week or two.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Another one of our <a href="https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheBabylonBee</a> prophecies fulfilled <a href="https://t.co/6IWa7p0YOY">pic.twitter.com/6IWa7p0YOY</a></p>— Kyle Mann/Womann (@The_Kyle_Mann) <a href="https://twitter.com/The_Kyle_Mann/status/1354981519744401409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish#1]

You and Ulukinatme read:


Jeffrey A. Rosen is acting attorney general and Richard P. Donoghue is deputy attorney general. Trump could have fired everyone except Clark for a leadership of the Justice Department of one, who would then advocate for stopping Congress from certifying the Electoral College results for President. Constitutional crisis, anyone? Everyone knows Trump has no regard for the Constitution.

I read it and understood it. I guess you're focused on possible implications. I was referring not to possible implications, but to Trumps propensity to use strong arm tactics.

 

[Blazers46]

Parler CEO fired. Apparent in-fighting on censorship. It’s late and I’ll catch up tomorrow but it appears he wanted more censorship and the board did not.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/03/9638...resistance-inside-the-conservative-friendly-s

 

[ab2cmiller]

Youtube actually censoring Senate testimony. LOL. If I don't laugh, I'll cry.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/JonathanTurley/status/1357412403051442178[/TWEET]

 

[Irish#1]

Youtube actually censoring Senate testimony. LOL. If I don't laugh, I'll cry.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">YouTube is preventing citizens from watching testimony on an issue of national importance. It is an example of the slippery slope of censorship and how such speech regulation becomes an insatiable appetite for many. <a href="https://t.co/MThV2CK9U4">https://t.co/MThV2CK9U4</a></p>— Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonathanTurley/status/1357412403051442178?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 4, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is sad. I can't think of any reason someone would support YouTube on this.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Idk if this has been posted anywhere (I'm not on this site as often as I used to be), but the ProPublica tax leak story is probably one of the worst media pieces I've seen lately. Twitter is promoting it, the WH Press Sec is speaking about it, it's being pushed by tons of Politicians and other MSM outlets. And it's completely baseless. It took me two seconds of reading to realize how dishonest they're being with their "true tax rate" method. YOU DON'T PAY TAXES ON WEALTH GROWTH! NO ONE DOES! I'm not saying there isn't a wealth/income inequality problem in this country. But we have to have honest conversations about it. Creating your own make-believe method of calculating tax rates to push an agenda is not the way to go about it. They're using this as a springboard for pushing the wealth tax (which doesn't work).

Seems like a good place to start the debate: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/02/opinion/sunday/income-inequality-solutions.html

 

[TDHeysus]

Idk if this has been posted anywhere (I'm not on this site as often as I used to be), but the ProPublica tax leak story is probably one of the worst media pieces I've seen lately. Twitter is promoting it, the WH Press Sec is speaking about it, it's being pushed by tons of Politicians and other MSM outlets. And it's completely baseless. It took me two seconds of reading to realize how dishonest they're being with their "true tax rate" method. YOU DON'T PAY TAXES ON WEALTH GROWTH! NO ONE DOES! I'm not saying there isn't a wealth/income inequality problem in this country. But we have to have honest conversations about it. Creating your own make-believe method of calculating tax rates to push an agenda is not the way to go about it. They're using this as a springboard for pushing the wealth tax (which doesn't work).

Seems like a good place to start the debate: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/02/opinion/sunday/income-inequality-solutions.html

The go-along-to-get-along gang....they are used to telling ppl what to do and what to think because a certain segment of the population will believe anything, and everything they say. they'll have you believing that boys are girls, and girls are boys; white supremacy is a bigger threat than russia/china; Sleepy Joe is the most popular President ever; and 2+2=5.

It is true because they say it. no need to check, matter of fact, if you check that makes you racist and an insurrectionist. So the only acceptable response is total complete acceptance, sight unseen.

 

[Irish#1]

It's been mentioned a little in the Biden thread since he's the one driving this.

 

[drayer54]

Idk if this has been posted anywhere (I'm not on this site as often as I used to be), but the ProPublica tax leak story is probably one of the worst media pieces I've seen lately. Twitter is promoting it, the WH Press Sec is speaking about it, it's being pushed by tons of Politicians and other MSM outlets. And it's completely baseless. It took me two seconds of reading to realize how dishonest they're being with their "true tax rate" method. YOU DON'T PAY TAXES ON WEALTH GROWTH! NO ONE DOES! I'm not saying there isn't a wealth/income inequality problem in this country. But we have to have honest conversations about it. Creating your own make-believe method of calculating tax rates to push an agenda is not the way to go about it. They're using this as a springboard for pushing the wealth tax (which doesn't work).

Seems like a good place to start the debate: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/02/opinion/sunday/income-inequality-solutions.html

The real story is the Biden IRS leaking it out illegally to help their push for tax reform. WSJ hit on this hard. Others are basically ignoring this part of the story. It's an emotional appeal, not a logical appeal.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Good point. I saw this too and just forgot to mention it. I think it's too conspiratorial to suggest Biden's admin had a physical hand in the leak, but they sure as hell won't miss an opportunity to move the needle on their agenda. I think what irritates me the most, and it's why I posted it in this thread, is how blatant it is that the whole MSM just got on board with this "true tax rate" thing from ProPublica.

It's funny (and sad) that every blue check media member or politician who regurgitated this story, within the first 5 comments, some Joe Schmo would point out that you don't owe taxes on unrealized gains be it stocks or real estate, etc. And if the goal is to force a tax on that growth, it takes a 3 second google search to see all the countries who've tried and failed at such a wealth tax sooo....

Again, there's a discussion to be had regarding ultra wealthy people who have achieved or maintained wealth through unethical/immoral practices (such as worker exploitation or political lobbying to enrich themselves), but most of the time what I hear are "all rich people are evil and we should tax them into oblivion." Which is just too simple-minded for me to engage in such conversation.

 

[drayer54]

Good point. I saw this too and just forgot to mention it. I think it's too conspiratorial to suggest Biden's admin had a physical hand in the leak, but they sure as hell won't miss an opportunity to move the needle on their agenda. I think what irritates me the most, and it's why I posted it in this thread, is how blatant it is that the whole MSM just got on board with this "true tax rate" thing from ProPublica.

I'm not saying Joe personally leaked it, but it is his IRS, just like it was Obama's IRS when Lois Lerner was weaponizing the IRS. The timing as the issue comes to committee and the talking points will hit the press is likely not coincidental.

 

[TorontoGold]

Good point. I saw this too and just forgot to mention it. I think it's too conspiratorial to suggest Biden's admin had a physical hand in the leak, but they sure as hell won't miss an opportunity to move the needle on their agenda. I think what irritates me the most, and it's why I posted it in this thread, is how blatant it is that the whole MSM just got on board with this "true tax rate" thing from ProPublica.

It's funny (and sad) that every blue check media member or politician who regurgitated this story, within the first 5 comments, some Joe Schmo would point out that you don't owe taxes on unrealized gains be it stocks or real estate, etc. And if the goal is to force a tax on that growth, it takes a 3 second google search to see all the countries who've tried and failed at such a wealth tax sooo....

Again, there's a discussion to be had regarding ultra wealthy people who have achieved or maintained wealth through unethical/immoral practices (such as worker exploitation or political lobbying to enrich themselves), but most of the time what I hear are "all rich people are evil and we should tax them into oblivion." Which is just too simple-minded for me to engage in such conversation.

The key issue to any sort of new wealth tax is should just be solidifying residency issues with where corporate income is earned. Big companies being able to shift around where the income is earned much more of an issue than Joe Schmo's place in the Hamptons being worth a ton.

This can likely be something done on an USMCA/NATO level by updating old tax treaties. There's a reason why almost all my big clients have Delaware corporations.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The key issue to any sort of new wealth tax is should just be solidifying residency issues with where corporate income is earned. Big companies being able to shift around where the income is earned much more of an issue than Joe Schmo's place in the Hamptons being worth a ton.

This can likely be something done on an USMCA/NATO level by updating old tax treaties. There's a reason why almost all my big clients have Delaware corporations.

Don't disagree with closing tax loopholes like the one you mentioned. Incorporating in tax-friendly states is UltraWealth101. I'm specifically calling out Sanders/Warren's 2-3% wealth tax as a "Just because you have it" type tax. Adding more taxation without closing loopholes is a fools errand.