Mauk vs. Kiel

[johnnykillz]

Look, Kiel is fantastic. No doubt.

Welcome to Mauk's profile.

Now if you really think Kiel is afraid of Mauk's decision, then we've got the right QB.

"Smooth like a thistle, hocked like a loogie from a whistle..." -Me baby

 

[ColinKSU]

Ummm.... coaches have made many non-flattering remarks about players...

They said Deion Walker plateaued. They said Lynch and Ishaq aren't even close. I don't think they sugar coat it as much as you are making it sound. If Hendrix wasn't playing well they would say "he still has a long way to go" or make a comment about consistency. In fact, Kelly has said with other QBs (namely Montana) that his consistency was the issue.

Please link me these reports.

" + artTitle.replace("-","") + " - " + "The Observer" + " - " + "Sports" + "

Unexpected absence | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

Open practice gives first look at 2011 Irish | Inside the Irish

Want me to keep going? That last link talks about Hendrix throwing picks, including a pick-six to Lo Wood. The second link even has a quote from Brian Kelly (he's Notre Dame's head coach, if you didn't know) saying he wants Andrew to throw the ball to Notre Dame players, not the other team.

Let me reemphasize this point:

I. LIKE. ANDREW. HENDRIX. A. LOT.

I don't, however, want Andrew Hendrix starting for us at QB against South Florida. He's not ready.

 

[IrishLax]

" + artTitle.replace("-","") + " - " + "The Observer" + " - " + "Sports" + "

Unexpected absence | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

Open practice gives first look at 2011 Irish | Inside the Irish

Want me to keep going? That last link talks about Hendrix throwing picks, including a pick-six to Lo Wood. The second link even has a quote from Brian Kelly (he's Notre Dame's head coach, if you didn't know) saying he wants Andrew to throw the ball to Notre Dame players, not the other team.

Let me reemphasize this point:

I. LIKE. ANDREW. HENDRIX. A. LOT.

I don't, however, want Andrew Hendrix starting for us at QB against South Florida. He's not ready.

You talk in circles my friend. My whole point was that coaches aren't afraid to say the truth... when you clearly implied that a coach wouldn't say "someone sucks" or make a negative comment. You can't have it both ways. You can't take Kelly's word and not Molnar's, you can't take a report saying he threw a pick in practice (lord only know how many bone head plays I made in practice and got absolutely reamed for it...) and not take the reports talking about his positives. I don't know who said Hendrix would start against South Florida... I think every logical person expects Crist... the point is that you're making flawed arguments to paint players in a negative light by only using the facts/reports/comments that suit you.

With that, I'm officially done with this thread until we have any more info on Maty.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Why would I want that? I graduated from Kent State.

And actually, I don't think he'd start out of the gate for Kent State. They have a pretty decent QB who'll be a third-year starter this season.

Also, I joined this site in 2006. I've been around a little bit.

This is gonna be my last comment on this thread for awhile (you're rubbing me the wrong way).

Kiel > Mauk

Maty is no slouch though, the kid can play. He's trust raw, and lacks the intangibles that Kiel has (size, strength, form).

Maty will require more work than Kiel.

Kelly can groom either for his liking.

 

[woolybug25]

You've given the same opinions over and over again. You are entitled to your opinion, and it is crystal clear what that opinion is ... you don't want Mauk. We get it. While you haven't been disrespectful to any posters on this board, I think you have been very disprespectful to a prospective recruit (and his father/coach) who will in all probability be our next commit. You have come up with numerous reasons (several based on heresay and assumption) and others based on your obvious lean toward a recruit who it seems you favor because the recruiting services say in the #1 QB. That is where I'm coming from.

I dont think that is where you are coming from. It seems more like that you just disagree with my opinion and just dont have any better answers other then to be a jerk. Last time I checked, we were allowed to have rational conversations about the pros and cons of recruits on this forum. If there are rules about not liking a possible recruit then show me and i'll stop. Until then, I will continue to bring up my arguments/counter-arguments on the value of Mauk. I'm not just going to buy into every decision the coaching staff makes (although I am a supporter of Kelly and think he will do at ND) blindly. I've seen where that gets us over the last 15 years of poor decision making by our coaching staffs. So if I don't get why we are recruiting a kid or why they are making a certian decisions, then I am going to voice that opinion.

If the only comments that can be made on the recruiting pages are lovey-dovey bs on any kid that looks ND's way, then i'll just quit posting on it. This is Notre Dame though, an elite football program and not every recruit is going to fit what they are trying to do. I read this board because I can get honest, intelligent, informed conversations about the program. I respect it if someone disagrees with me, but I deserve the same amount of respect that you would want for yourself.

 

[GoIrish41]

I dont think that is where you are coming from. It seems more like that you just disagree with my opinion and just dont have any better answers other then to be a jerk. Last time I checked, we were allowed to have rational conversations about the pros and cons of recruits on this forum. If there are rules about not liking a possible recruit then show me and i'll stop. Until then, I will continue to bring up my arguments/counter-arguments on the value of Mauk.

Dude, if I say that is where I'm coming from, that is where I'm coming from. Of course, that is in spite of your incredible powers of observation and insight into my thought processes. my first post in this thread stated pretty clearly that I agree with your opinion about Kiel being the better of the two prospects. What I don't agree with you about is that you are ripping a teenager non-stop because you like the other guy better. It is fine to like Kiel better (I do too), but it is beyond immature to keep ripping Mauk to try to make your point. You have said precious little about why you think Kiel is so good, other than the recruiting services say he is the top QB. If the scouts were better than BK at evaluating talent, they'd probably be coach ND instead of writing for an internet service. But, you, without probably ever seeing either of these two prospects play a game, have decided that Rivals and Scout know more than the ND coach. I would think that a guy who is so versed in laying out the weaknesses of a QB should have some analysis of they guy you like better. Nope, not you. Just keep ripping Mauk. I think it's pretty clear who is being the jerk here. How many people on this board have to say to you that insulting a prospect (and his father) isn't what we do here before you shut the hell up? Are there rules against it? I guess not, but that doesn't make you any less of an *** for continuing to do it.

 

[NDinL.A.]

How do you know any of that? He hasn't had to do any of that in high school because he hasn't played the kind of competition that would force those scenarios.

And there definitely weren't any 4th and 8s with the game on the line where he made a big play because they lost 22-20 to Ottawa- Glandorf during the regular season. Plus, they lost 35-32 to Kettering Alter in the post season.

The rest of their games were blowout wins. So if anything, I don't know if he can win the big game when it's all on the line. He has no evidence that he has that ability.

How do I know these things? Let's see...you are allowed to say you know about all these QBs because you read practice reports (which, btw, are 30 minutes of viewing save for one open practice), and yet you question how others know things? Same way you do bro, by reading a bunch of reports and listening to podcasts and other ways of finding things out. And from what I've read and heard, Maty is everything I said he was in that post.

Now, were you at the game where they lost 22-20? Were you at game where they lost 35-32? Well then how in the hell do you know if he didn't make any big plays in the game? How do you know he didn't convert a big 4th down and score a late TD, only to have his team give up a late TD? How do you know his receiver didn't drop the big pass or fumble the ball before he scored? You don't. You know how I know he's made big plays? BECAUSE PEOPLE WROTE ABOUT IT.

And btw, his comp wasn't the greatest, but he played 6 playoff teams, and his team smoked a team that went to the state CHAMPIONSHIP game 50-31. No big plays were made there right?

The other thing that irks about what you wrote is that ND struck out on QBs for 3 years running. WTF? How do you call getting a 4 star two yrs ago in Hendrix, a QB that FLORIDA and Urban Meyer wanted badly (in case you didn't know - they're kinda good), and getting EE Everett Golson, another 4 star who lots of teams coveted and is perfect for the spread - how do you call that striking out?

I mean seriously, you're ripping Hendrix (I know, you like him) because he doesn't get the offense one full year into college? Ya think? Crist was 3 years into college and had a hard time getting this offense. Hendrix has 4 friggin' years left of eligibility, has arguably the strongest arm and quickest release on the team, can run, and you're already saying we struck out??? And Golson has those same qualities but he even more elusive, he has had 3 weeks of spring practice, and you call that striking out because he's small??? You know what...give me a small QB over some dork that stands 6'5" who can't move and can't read defenses any day of the week. This is college man, not the pros. LOTS of small QBs have DOMINATED the college game. You give me Charlie Ward and I'll laugh all the way to a national championship (wait...bad example!!! Damn you pollsters!)

Anyway, no way can you call us striking out at QB when the guys have 4 years left each. That's ridiculous to say the least. So we didn't get the top QB (you think the Terrell Pryors of the world are EVER coming to ND???)...not everyone gets the top QB. But we sure as hell can't say we struck out...

 

[NDinL.A.]

I dont think that is where you are coming from. It seems more like that you just disagree with my opinion and just dont have any better answers other then to be a jerk. Last time I checked, we were allowed to have rational conversations about the pros and cons of recruits on this forum. If there are rules about not liking a possible recruit then show me and i'll stop. Until then, I will continue to bring up my arguments/counter-arguments on the value of Mauk. I'm not just going to buy into every decision the coaching staff makes (although I am a supporter of Kelly and think he will do at ND) blindly. I've seen where that gets us over the last 15 years of poor decision making by our coaching staffs. So if I don't get why we are recruiting a kid or why they are making a certian decisions, then I am going to voice that opinion.

If the only comments that can be made on the recruiting pages are lovey-dovey bs on any kid that looks ND's way, then i'll just quit posting on it. This is Notre Dame though, an elite football program and not every recruit is going to fit what they are trying to do. I read this board because I can get honest, intelligent, informed conversations about the program. I respect it if someone disagrees with me, but I deserve the same amount of respect that you would want for yourself.

You crossed the line when you said he had a horrible attitude (or 'bad' attitude, I forget what you said; gotta have links or something to back that up b/c recruits read this stuff) and then you said it would be your worst nightmare if he signed with ND. That is a complete no-no and if you don't like that, sorry buddy, you'll have to post elsewhere. Disagreeing is one thing (no problem with that whatsoever), but ripping a recruit on his thread? Not cool. Everything else was fine.

We're seeing more and more recruits being turned off by a school's fans. Like it or not, we have to be sensitive to that. And yes, they do read these sites, and their families do too. We've had several family members become posters here. So easy on that stuff, and you'll be fine.

 

[kjk184]

How do I know these things? Let's see...you are allowed to say you know about all these QBs because you read practice reports (which, btw, are 30 minutes of viewing save for one open practice), and yet you question how others know things? Same way you do bro, by reading a bunch of reports and listening to a podcasts and other ways of finding things out. And from what I've read and heard, Maty is everything I said he was in that post.

Now, were you at the game where they lost 22-20? Were you at game where they lost 35-32? Well then how in the hell do you know if he didn't make any big plays in the game? How do you know he didn't convert a big 4th down and score a late TD, only to have his team give up a late TD? How do you know his receiver didn't drop the big pass or fumble the ball before he scored? You know how I know he's made big plays? BECAUSE PEOPLE WROTE ABOUT IT.

And btw, his comp wasn't the greatest, but he played 6 playoff teams, and his team smoked a team that went to the state CHAMPIONSHIP game 50-31. No big plays were made there right?

The other thing that irks about what you wrote is that ND struck out on QBs for 3 years running. WTF? How do you call getting a 4 star two yrs ago in Hendrix, and QB that FLORIDA and Urban Meyer wanted badly (in case you didn't know - they're kinda good), and getting EE Everett Golson, another 4 star who lots of teams coveted and is perfect for the spread - how do you call that striking out?

I mean seriously, you're ripping Hendrix (I know, you like him) because he doesn't get the offense one full year into college? Ya think? Crist was 3 years into college and had a hard time getting this offense. He has 4 friggin' years left of eligibility, has arguably the strongest arm and quickest release on the team, can run, and you're already saying we struck out??? And Golson has those same qualities but he even more elusive, he has had 3 weeks of spring practice, and you call that striking out because he's small??? You know what...give me a small QB over some dork that stands 6'5" who can't move and can't read defenses any day of the week. This is college man, not the pros. LOTS of small QBs have DOMINATED the college game. You give me Charlie Ward and I'll laugh all the way to a national championship (wait...bad example!!! Damn you pollsters!)

Anyway, no way can you call us striking out at QB when the guys have 4 years left each. That's ridiculous to say the least. So we didn't get the top QB (you think the Terrell Pryors of the world are EVER coming to ND???)...not everyone gets the top QB. But we sure as hell can't say we struck out...

Great response. Reading this reminded me of the weekend update on SNL where they do the "Really" segment. It would be perfect.

Example for those that haven't seen it.
YouTube - SNL Weekend Update - Really! With Seth and Amy

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Anyway, no way can you call us striking out at QB when the guys have 4 years left each. That's ridiculous to say the least. So we didn't get the top QB (you think the Terrell Pryors of the world are EVER coming to ND???)...not everyone gets the top QB. But we sure as hell can't say we struck out...

You said so many of the same things that I said.

Go Irish.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

You said so many of the same things that I said.

Go Irish.

IrishJayHawk...where in the hell have you been? Glad to "read" your stuff...again.

 

[woolybug25]

Dude, if I say that is where I'm coming from, that is where I'm coming from. Of course, that is in spite of your incredible powers of observation and insight into my thought processes. my first post in this thread stated pretty clearly that I agree with your opinion about Kiel being the better of the two prospects. What I don't agree with you about is that you are ripping a teenager non-stop because you like the other guy better. It is fine to like Kiel better (I do too), but it is beyond immature to keep ripping Mauk to try to make your point. You have said precious little about why you think Kiel is so good, other than the recruiting services say he is the top QB. If the scouts were better than BK at evaluating talent, they'd probably be coach ND instead of writing for an internet service. But, you, without probably ever seeing either of these two prospects play a game, have decided that Rivals and Scout know more than the ND coach. I would think that a guy who is so versed in laying out the weaknesses of a QB should have some analysis of they guy you like better. Nope, not you. Just keep ripping Mauk. I think it's pretty clear who is being the jerk here. How many people on this board have to say to you that insulting a prospect (and his father) isn't what we do here before you shut the hell up? Are there rules against it? I guess not, but that doesn't make you any less of an *** for continuing to do it.

I'll leave you with this, because I have no intention of continuing this conversation with you, I am not bashing the kid personally and would hope that he proves me wrong if he comes to ND. I have never had a mod tell me that it was inapropriate to have a rational conversation about whether a recruit would be a good fit for the program. I also find it comical that when people had this same conversation about recruits like Heggie, Toma, Seantrel Henderson, Chris Martin, etc no one said a word. Those recruits had their vocal skeptics for everything from physical talent to bad attitude. But for some reason, some of you are getting all butt hurt because some of us disagree with the decision (see what I did there, i'm not talking about Mauk as a person, i'm talking about him as a recruiting decision by the coaching staff) to allow him to commit before knowing Gunner's decision.

I will make one concession though, I will not mention the potential "attitude problem" issue again. I will let others have that conversation to prove to you that my side of the Mauk situation is based on one thing... is he good for Notre Dame (where my allegiance actually lies, not with any one recruit)? It's that simple, its the same conversation that is going on about the kid on every team's recruiting board that he is considering. So get over it, because the Mauk vs Kiel conversation will continue for a long time. Whether I talk about it or not. If you dont believe the conversation is real, then read what the fans of the other teams he is considering are saying.

QB Maty Mauk Talks About His Michigan Offer | mgoblog
Mizzou - Take Maty Mauk Please **WARNING - the Mizzou board is offensive and I am not posting it as an endorsement of their behavior. Their board has always been offensive, and its not exclusive to Maty Mauk. I am posting it simply to show how the fans of other schools see him.**
(I would add more boards, but why.... Mich, Mizzou and ND are his best offers)

You are pretty much the only person that has told me I should stop talking about the situation, and I have been respectful to everyone whether they shared my opinion or not. I refuse to get into a "no, you're a jerk!" arguments with someone that obviously has no intention of having a healthy recruiting conversation. So have your last words, I know ya want em'. I'm done having this conversation with you.

 

[InKellyITrust]

Good first impression on the site.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I have never had a mod tell me that it was inapropriate to have a rational conversation about whether a recruit would be a good fit for the program. I also find it comical that when people had this same conversation about recruits like Heggie, Toma, Seantrel Henderson, Chris Martin, etc no one said a word. Those recruits had their vocal skeptics for everything from physical talent to bad attitude. But for some reason, some of you are getting all butt hurt because some of us disagree with the decision (see what I did there, i'm not talking about Mauk as a person, i'm talking about him as a recruiting decision by the coaching staff) to allow him to commit before knowing Gunner's decision.

And you still haven't had a mod tell you that. You already discussed not saying he had a bad attitude. But calling it a kid's commitment, on his own thread, "your worst nightmare", is not appropriate. Not even close dude.

As for those other guys, we had to shut down and delete a lot of posts and threads on those guys. A LOT. After Heggie had already signed, we let the debates continue. but deleted anything that got personal or over the line. Those other guys, if they were unsigned, we put an end to it. The ONLY guy where I stopped deleting posts was Chris Martin, because he stopped considering ND and I found out from people from USC that he did ND dirrrrrrrrty, so I personally let it go. While Sentrell was being recruited, we kept it clean. When he signed with SC, he was fair game, as long as it didn't go overboard.

Look it up. And if we missed it, all you have to do is report it and it's gone...

 

[woolybug25]

Good first impression on the site.

Are you talking about me? I've been a member since 08'.

 

[woolybug25]

And you still haven't had a mod tell you that. You already discussed not saying he had a bad attitude. But calling it a kid's commitment, on his own thread, "your worst nightmare", is not appropriate. Not even close dude.

As for those other guys, we had to shut down and delete a lot of posts and threads on those guys. A LOT. After Heggie had already signed, we let the debates continue. but deleted anything that got personal or over the line. Those other guys, if they were unsigned, we put an end to it. The ONLY guy where I stopped deleting posts was Chris Martin, because he stopped considering ND and I found out from people from USC that he did ND dirrrrrrrrty, so I personally let it go. While Sentrell was being recruited, we kept it clean. When he signed with SC, he was fair game, as long as it didn't go overboard.

Look it up. And if we missed it, all you have to do is report it and it's gone...

That's why I am stepping away from the "bad attitude" debate, although I think it is a real issue that deserves consideration. It obviously got under some people's skin for some reason, and I am not that stubborn that I will make a scene over it. So I will let other members discuss that part of Mauk's recruiting. Finally, the "this is my nightmare" comment was just me joking around. I watched "I love you, man" last night.



and for whomever changed my title under my avatard (I changed it back to my old one). Stay classy.

 

[GreatGolson]

*sigh* please dont let this turn into Aaron Lynch II...

 

[rtrn2glory]

If we get Maty that is fine with me, but I would be worried about him coming in healthy...he plays in a scary system that forces him to run around a lot and he doesn't exactly have an elite OL returning...plus there's rumors he tweaked his hammy running one of the relays on his track team.

I think what has people eaked is how we would shut the door on Kiel if Mauk commits. When you're in the running for the potential best QB in the country, in most cases you gotta play according to his schedule and this doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

IrishJayHawk...where in the hell have you been? Glad to "read" your stuff...again.

He's been loathing the loss to VCU.

 

[NDinL.A.]

If we get Maty that is fine with me, but I would be worried about him coming in healthy...he plays in a scary system that forces him to run around a lot and he doesn't exactly have an elite OL returning...plus there's rumors he tweaked his hammy running one of the relays on his track team.

I think what has people eaked is how we would shut the door on Kiel if Mauk commits. When you're in the running for the potential best QB in the country, in most cases you gotta play according to his schedule and this doesn't seem to be the case.

This was one of the downfalls of CW's tenure (among many others). He could sell the university like no other, but he also waited for the 'home run' recruit waaaaayyyy too often without any backups. When he swung and missed, we were left holding the bag. That's why you saw some holes in certain spots.

You pretty much need a QB every class. That's recruiting 101. We have a top 5 QB ready to commit. By most accounts, we are AT BEST sitting 3rd for Kiel, most notably behind Oklahoma. Do you want to sit and wait and pray that we get Kiel and watch Maty commit elsewhere?

That's a tough call I know, but I'll take the bird in the hand, the one who knows the system, is a better athlete, and wants to be at ND, over the stud QB that we're not sure wants to be at ND. That's my take anyways...

 

[TerryTate]

This was one of the downfalls of CW's tenure (among many others). He could sell the university like no other, but he also waited for the 'home run' recruit waaaaayyyy too often without any backups. When he swung and missed, we were left holding the bag. That's why you saw some holes in certain spots.

You pretty much need a QB every class. That's recruiting 101. We have a top 5 QB ready to commit. By most accounts, we are AT BEST sitting 3rd for Kiel, most notably behind Oklahoma. Do you want to sit and wait and pray that we get Kiel and watch Maty commit elsewhere?

That's a tough call I know, but I'll take the bird in the hand, the one who knows the system, is a better athlete, and wants to be at ND, over the stud QB that we're not sure wants to be at ND. That's my take anyways...

x100

 

[IrishLax]

This was one of the downfalls of CW's tenure (among many others). He could sell the university like no other, but he also waited for the 'home run' recruit waaaaayyyy too often without any backups. When he swung and missed, we were left holding the bag. That's why you saw some holes in certain spots.

You pretty much need a QB every class. That's recruiting 101. We have a top 5 QB ready to commit. By most accounts, we are AT BEST sitting 3rd for Kiel, most notably behind Oklahoma. Do you want to sit and wait and pray that we get Kiel and watch Maty commit elsewhere?

That's a tough call I know, but I'll take the bird in the hand, the one who knows the system, is a better athlete, and wants to be at ND, over the stud QB that we're not sure wants to be at ND. That's my take anyways...

Do we? This is not a rhetorical question, it's something I've been pondering for a bit. Considering Crist (baring another injury) has 2 years left, Hendrix has 4, Rees has 3, Golson has 4+. So if we whiff this year... is it really the end of the world? In some ways I'd be totally OK with us using the QB slot in this cycle for another position with our limited scholarships.

Lastly, do we really sit at best 3rd for Kiel? That's disturbing. I largely considered us in a power position with Indiana, Michigan and Oklahoma being the other power players.

 

[TerryTate]

Do we? This is not a rhetorical question, it's something I've been pondering for a bit. Considering Crist (baring another injury) has 2 years left, Hendrix has 4, Rees has 3, Golson has 4+. So if we whiff this year... is it really the end of the world? In some ways I'd be totally OK with us using the QB slot in this cycle for another position with our limited scholarships.

Lastly, do we really sit at best 3rd for Kiel? That's disturbing. I largely considered us in a power position with Indiana, Michigan and Oklahoma being the other power players.

This year is a unique situation in that we took 3 QBs the first year and took Golson last year. We stocked up on 3 guys (excluding Massa) with more than 3 years of eligibility left the past few seasons, so we could afford to skip one this year. However, Kelly has stated that he'd like one a year going forward to smooth it out.

Everything I've read shows Kiel favoring Oklahoma early on.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Do we? This is not a rhetorical question, it's something I've been pondering for a bit. Considering Crist (baring another injury) has 2 years left, Hendrix has 4, Rees has 3, Golson has 4+. So if we whiff this year... is it really the end of the world? In some ways I'd be totally OK with us using the QB slot in this cycle for another position with our limited scholarships.

Lastly, do we really sit at best 3rd for Kiel? That's disturbing. I largely considered us in a power position with Indiana, Michigan and Oklahoma being the other power players.

Not sure where we sit with Kiel, but.... I would be dumbfound if Kiel went to IU. Completely shocked. And yes I know his brother played there, but IU isn't a contender. ever.

 

[woolybug25]

This was one of the downfalls of CW's tenure (among many others). He could sell the university like no other, but he also waited for the 'home run' recruit waaaaayyyy too often without any backups. When he swung and missed, we were left holding the bag. That's why you saw some holes in certain spots.

You pretty much need a QB every class. That's recruiting 101. We have a top 5 QB ready to commit. By most accounts, we are AT BEST sitting 3rd for Kiel, most notably behind Oklahoma. Do you want to sit and wait and pray that we get Kiel and watch Maty commit elsewhere?

That's a tough call I know, but I'll take the bird in the hand, the one who knows the system, is a better athlete, and wants to be at ND, over the stud QB that we're not sure wants to be at ND. That's my take anyways...

After reading over all of the pages again, I have realized that this is the fundamental difference between "Pro-Mauk Tribe" guys and ""No-Mauk Tribe" guys.

The "Pro-Mauk Tribe" believes exactly what NDinLA describes above. It is a valid argument and I dont think any rational ND fans would disagree with the fundamentals of this argument.

This is where the "No-Mauk Tribe" guys come in. As one of these barbarians, I can tell you about the other side of the coin. This camp feels that Mauk as a top 5 QB is a falacy. Scout is the only service to rank him and that is where the #5 QB is coming from. This camp believes that once recruiting sites get a good look at him, they will see some of the things we see (throwing motion, style of offense, level of competition, size) and significantly downgrade him in addition to raising the grades of counterparts.

By no means does the "No Mauk Tribe" believe that we shouldn't be getting a QB in this class, but they feel that if that QB isnt Kiel, then whomever it will be is destined to a career of backing up our already talented young group. This is a significant point of difference, as many in the "Pro-Mauk Tribe" disagree and think that Mauk would eventually be the starter. Who knows what tribe is right on that, but the "No-Mauk Tribe" believes that if we are going to get a guy that is not a significant upgrade from our young core of backups, then we should aim for the #1 guy and fill the spot with a project QB if we miss (which btw, would probably be a pretty talented "project").

* I hope nothing in there ruffles anyone's feathers, just trying to stay in this debate, as I see it as a recuiting topic that will be talked about for quite a while.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

lol. Well done Boss.

 

[D-BOE34]

My question is start or not, how do we know that once the "QB", who the hell ever it is, doesn't develop into a perfect prospect. Massa, in my eyes as well as Rees, were eh glad to have them but hope they show something else when they are here. Sure as **** they did. Giddy we had Rees do what he did and Massa take the change of position and transition well. Mauk may become another position player for us and do damn well early. OR he may be worthy of the 5th QB in our system next year that BK doesn't necessarily like. A QB a year continues to let us develop div 1 recruit, at whatever position, into a div 1 talent. I have said before and I will say it again. I am fully in on backing our coaches. If they think a recruit can help ND back to the top im all for it. I just ask that the recruits give the best damn effort possible and have the mindset that they will be the best once they step on campus.

Much like A.Lynch .... He has been a beast but by being a beast he has showed his flaws early and often. Which I think will lead him to be one of the best def. ends at ND ever if he keeps up the work he has showed thus far. Couldn't ask more of a rookie.

 

[Rocket89]

After reading over all of the pages again, I have realized that this is the fundamental difference between "Pro-Mauk Tribe" guys and ""No-Mauk Tribe" guys.

The "Pro-Mauk Tribe" believes exactly what NDinLA describes above. It is a valid argument and I dont think any rational ND fans would disagree with the fundamentals of this argument.

This is where the "No-Mauk Tribe" guys come in. As one of these barbarians, I can tell you about the other side of the coin. This camp feels that Mauk as a top 5 QB is a falacy. Scout is the only service to rank him and that is where the #5 QB is coming from. This camp believes that once recruiting sites get a good look at him, they will see some of the things we see (throwing motion, style of offense, level of competition, size) and significantly downgrade him in addition to raising the grades of counterparts.

By no means does the "No Mauk Tribe" believe that we shouldn't be getting a QB in this class, but they feel that if that QB isnt Kiel, then whomever it will be is destined to a career of backing up our already talented young group. This is a significant point of difference, as many in the "Pro-Mauk Tribe" disagree and think that Mauk would eventually be the starter. Who knows what tribe is right on that, but the "No-Mauk Tribe" believes that if we are going to get a guy that is not a significant upgrade from our young core of backups, then we should aim for the #1 guy and fill the spot with a project QB if we miss (which btw, would probably be a pretty talented "project").

* I hope nothing in there ruffles anyone's feathers, just trying to stay in this debate, as I see it as a recuiting topic that will be talked about for quite a while.

Very well said sir.

You kind of touched upon how I feel. If Kelly wants to take Mauk early and then either shut down the QB position for the year or (likely) hurt his chances in getting Kiel, I'm okay with that. Because like you said, Mauk will be a project and in my mind I think we can afford to NOT pick up a QB this cycle, but I don't have a big problem with taking a flyer with Mauk and seeing how he develops three years down the road.

I'd also like to add that I don't think Mauk even sniffs the top 10 at his position let alone staying at his current #5 spot on Scout. His size alone (he looks 6'0" to me) will drop him...just ask Everett Golson. And when I see that Golson was a 3/4 star guy who wasn't considered "elite" at his position, I don't think there's anyway whatsoever that Mauk will be.

Id also say that I think Kiel is more athletic. Kiel has experience running the spread option and is pretty good at it. Mauk doesn't even know how to hand off to a running back! At the very least, these two guys are similar in their athleticism, but with Kiel being so much bigger he is more impressive. I mean if you're 6'0" and supposed to be athletic I am waiting to see you amaze me and I just don't see that with Mauk. Kiel isn't amazing in that sense either, but he's a big kid so it's more enticing.

Also, does Mauk really fit our system better? I would think he's going to have tons of work on his footwork, pocket presence, possibly his throwing motion, and just basic stuff like handing the ball off that he doesn't work on at his high school. So his team throws the ball a lot and probably runs some of the same screens...I'm not seeing a ton of similarities to our system, and none more so than what Kiel does in high school.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Very well said sir.

You kind of touched upon how I feel. If Kelly wants to take Mauk early and then either shut down the QB position for the year or (likely) hurt his chances in getting Kiel, I'm okay with that. Because like you said, Mauk will be a project and in my mind I think we can afford to NOT pick up a QB this cycle, but I don't have a big problem with taking a flyer with Mauk and seeing how he develops three years down the road.

I'd also like to add that I don't think Mauk even sniffs the top 10 at his position let alone staying at his current #5 spot on Scout. His size alone (he looks 6'0" to me) will drop him...just ask Everett Golson. And when I see that Golson was a 3/4 star guy who wasn't considered "elite" at his position, I don't think there's anyway whatsoever that Mauk will be.

Id also say that I think Kiel is more athletic. Kiel has experience running the spread option and is pretty good at it. Mauk doesn't even know how to hand off to a running back! At the very least, these two guys are similar in their athleticism, but with Kiel being so much bigger he is more impressive. I mean if you're 6'0" and supposed to be athletic I am waiting to see you amaze me and I just don't see that with Mauk. Kiel isn't amazing in that sense either, but he's a big kid so it's more enticing.

Also, does Mauk really fit our system better? I would think he's going to have tons of work on his footwork, pocket presence, possibly his throwing motion, and just basic stuff like handing the ball off that he doesn't work on at his high school. So his team throws the ball a lot and probably runs some of the same screens...I'm not seeing a ton of similarities to our system, and none more so than what Kiel does in high school.

He is an all district basketball player and a member of the schools state qualifying 4x100 relay team that went 44.3, which is fast. The kid's an athlete and i'd be willing to bet a better athlete than Kiel overall.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

He is an all district basketball player and a member of the schools state qualifying 4x100 relay team that went 44.3, which is fast. The kid's an athlete and i'd be willing to bet a better athlete than Kiel overall.

Off topic but...44.3 qualified for the state meet? Geez. Slow state.