Man it's getting ugly

[phork]

One valid reason would be that everyone else of import is in a conference. As to the Big 10 & Big East, they are arguable, but not my preference. The Big East just went through a major overall and is still a young conference. The Big 10 plays boring football and don't have a conference championship game. In my mind, the ACC would be ideal and all the other sports could follow.

Err the Big10 is dying to get ND in so they can have a conference championship... They want a 12th team to sign up and ND is the perfect fit. There just is not any ties to the ACC so the Big10 and BigEast, in that order, make more sense. Aside from that most ND sports is BigEast affiliated anyways, and the BigEast really needs a big time name in the football conference.
Frankly ND has the bargaining power to go where they want, if they went that route. I imagine that they would work out an agreement whereby ND keeps its exclusive NBC contract, and why not? It provides a dedicated TV channel outside the normal ABC/ESPN/CBS affiliations held by the BCS conferences. Bowl money would be a big stumbling block however.

 

[midwestguy]

Bowl money would be a big stumbling block however.

OK. I admit it. I laughed.

 

[rogosIRISH77]

ND in the big ten

ND in the big ten

Can you imagine playing in the big ten? I'm sorry but I'm not ready to kiss all of our rivalries, new and old, away. Plus, it would be ridiculous to play teams like USC, BC, Pitt, NC, or even Navy on top of a big ten schedule. Navy isn't a great team, but honestly I think they are much stronger than most of the out of conference teams the other big ten teams play...

I actually enjoy being independent. Fuck the rest of the college football world for wanting us to conform. Additionally, we all know that some sort of playoff type post-season is needed as long as the historic bowl games can be incorporated into it.

 

[phork]

Michigan played 4 non-conference games this year. That easily takes care of USC, Navy, BC and Pitt/NC.

 

[kmoose]

Lots of Colin bashers. No need to shoot the messanger though. We aren't irrelevant, but we definitely have lost relevance. A lot of the Dome haters out there have valid complaints. We haven't won a Bowl game in forever. We are on NBC every weekend whether we are relevant or not. However, it all becomes moot as some above have said if we simply win. I think we do need to consider some other things as well though. Our schedule is an embarrasment this year and is again next year. We shouldn't be scheduling teams like Duke & Syracuse ever. And don't give me the standard line that we do the schedule years in advance and can't know records. NEWSFLASH: Syracuse & Duke haven't been competitive in almost a decade.

I think we would become a better national power if we joined a conference. It isn't the 70s anymore. Being an Independent hurts us. I think we go ACC and stop living in the past. Just my $.02.

How does being an Independent hurt ND?

 

[midwestguy]

How does being an Independent hurt ND?

1 Boring schedule missing the KEY RIVALRY game that all other schools have.

2 No Conference Championship to win each year

3 No In-Conference referees

4 Hurts us in the polls with voters - obviously I'm speaking only of years where we might be good

5 No continuity between football at ND and the other sports which are in the Big East.

Shall I continue?

 

[PADOMERNUT]

Millions of dollars going out the door to other schools if ND joins a conference.

There is simply no good reason to

 

[NDinL.A.]

Millions of dollars going out the door to other schools if ND joins a conference.

There is simply no good reason to

I wouldn't go that far. There are some good reasons to. midwestguy points out some of them. I don't agree with all of them, but there are some good reasons to join. Especially not having our own refs. Sometimes people forget what a disadvantage not having our own conference refs is.

Now the question, I think, is do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? That's the real debate. We shouldn't just completely dismiss either side as not having any advantages IMHO.

I'm a traditionalist, but damn, when I see ND get screwed call after call on certain games, I admit that I scream for a conference to play in...

 

[SteveM]

Pros and Cons

Pros and Cons

I wouldn't go that far. There are some good reasons to. midwestguy points out some of them. I don't agree with all of them, but there are some good reasons to join. Especially not having our own refs. Sometimes people forget what a disadvantage not having our own conference refs is.

Now the question, I think, is do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? That's the real debate. We shouldn't just completely dismiss either side as not having any advantages IMHO.

I'm a traditionalist, but damn, when I see ND get screwed call after call on certain games, I admit that I scream for a conference to play in...

Referee bias is the last thing we have to worry about LevoCoastie. Those guys just live in the area of the conference they work in. They aren't going to game an ND game one way or another no matter their conference affiliation.

The value of independence to ND is a network contract and it keeps all bowl revenue. So when it gets good again (and it will) a conference membership would be much less attractive because the conference would chase after the network money and the bowl revenue gets diluted. (I realize the share the wealth Pro, but I'm guessing that a BCS payout is larger than the distributed per team conference payout. But maybe I'm wrong.)

The rivalry thing is a good point. USC is obviously one. But the "boring schedule" is an artifact. Just don't schedule all 3 service academies in the same year, or Duke or San Diego State. Don't need a conference to do that.

SteveM

P.S. If anybody has run the numbers of a reasonable scenario bowl money payout ND would get as a conference member vs. a BCS payout as an independent, could you post your findings?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I vote no conference. This allows ND to play schools around the country. ND is a true measuring stick.

Keep the cash from any bowl game.

Find new rivals. Keep the old traditional rivals (as opposed to the "new traditional"... ). Play 3 -4 anticipated strong teams a year. Quit playing every powerhouse in the country every week.

I have stated before that this is the first year since I have watched ND football that I think the officiating is actually fair. I wonder if that bball ref getting caught has anything to do with it.

I have always thought refs have too much control of the game.

Think back to (we were all babes - give or take puberty, + or - 80 yrs.), when refs thew a flag on ND when Rocket scored on a punt return for what would have been a winning touchdown against Colorado (early 90s?). Totally bogus call, but a call usually easily made against ND just to stop their momentum.

I think announcers and fans need to keep the heat on the refs.

And ND should stay independant. But win more often dammit.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

1 Boring schedule missing the KEY RIVALRY game that all other schools have.

2 No Conference Championship to win each year

3 No In-Conference referees

4 Hurts us in the polls with voters - obviously I'm speaking only of years where we might be good

5 No continuity between football at ND and the other sports which are in the Big East.

Shall I continue?

Continue if you can counter my counter. I'll be keeping count:
1. Boring schedule? Are you kdding me? All these games have been exciting, including SDSU. I thought the stop at the goal-line (just at the moment when I frantically called my father on the phone long distance and told him that if SDSU scores, the season is over), was a near miracle. SDSU played a great game, and the young ND team was trying to learn how to win.

"Key rivalry?" How about ND/SoCal, ND/Mich, ND/MSU, ND/Navy (teehee), ND/Stanford, ND/BC, ND/anyone across the country?

2. No conference championship, but I will take an NC over a conf. any day, with a schedule loaded with teams from across the country who give their best just to knock the stuffing out of ND.

3. Well, almost agree, but I think that is getting better.

4.How many times have you heard ND is overrated? Doesn't seem to hurt rankings at all.

5. Just exactly what kind of continuity are hoping for? Big East volleyball helps ND football?

I don't understand that one.

Continue.

 

[ARALOU]

That was the "block in the back" call, where the blockers head was actually in the chest of the victim. What a bogus call. To top it all off, Rocket had already smoked by that.

I vote no conference. We get considered for the BCS bs, because we are ND. A conference actually would benefit more than the Irish. If we did go conference, I would prefer Big East. I really hope they stay independent.


I have been a fan for a long time. Ever since I was old enough to watch football. I remember good years and bad years. Years of medocrity. Years of being one or two plays out of back to back NCs. One thing about it, I love to watch them play. Every saturday in the fall I have renewed hope or overwhelming confidence (depending on how good we are) that we will be victorius. It never gets old to get ready for the game. I have to say I have enjoyed this year so far. I am not happy with the record but overall it has been watchable football. I would like to see more attittude, passion, and intensity. OVERALL though I still have this teams back and will argue with the wall about its chances to win against anyone.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

That was the "block in the back" call, where the blockers head was actually in the chest of the victim. What a bogus call. To top it all off, Rocket had already smoked by that...

I have been a fan for a long time. Ever since I was old enough to watch football. I remember good years and bad years. Years of medocrity. Years of being one or two plays out of back to back NCs. One thing about it, I love to watch them play. Every saturday in the fall I have renewed hope or overwhelming confidence (depending on how good we are) that we will be victorius. It never gets old to get ready for the game. I have to say I have enjoyed this year so far. I am not happy with the record but overall it has been watchable football. I would like to see more attittude, passion, and intensity. OVERALL though I still have this teams back and will argue with the wall about its chances to win against anyone.

I remember before the punt, we all KNEW Rocket was going to take it back. What I remember more is that even the ladies at home watching with us were more rabid than the guys were, before, during, and after the play.

Totally bogus call. I think UT Austin? ran one back against TT with a much more vicious block but similar block, but the score was allowed.

That's why they play the game I guess. Up to interpretation when it comes to football. Only human...

(By the way AraLou, I have never disagreed with a single one of your posts. You scare me. I may have to stop posting 'cause you have a much classier way of saying things...)

Ahh fuck it.

Bedtime. Up in 3...

 

[ARALOU]

Thanks for the comment NEUT. I enjoy reading and posting here (for the most part). I can recall many plays with Rocket. He even burned Tennessee, at Neyland Stadium, on a long return that sealed the game. I enjoyed that one a little too much and thought I was gonna have trouble getting out of there. He could absolutely FLY!

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Thanks for the comment NEUT. I enjoy reading and posting here (for the most part)... He could absolutely FLY!

C'mon. Admit it. You enjoy all parts.

Your litote to my hyperbole. You a friend of EastonPA?

I like the word "Fly."

Still can't believe I can, but...

 

[ARALOU]

C'mon. Admit it. You enjoy all parts.

Your litote to my hyperbole. You a friend of EastonPA?

I like the word "Fly."

Still can't believe I can, but...

Litote? I have not heard that word in awhile. Guess those nuns did a decent job on my vocabulary.


Dont know EastonPA.

I can and sometimes do, have the same views as the casual fan but I am anything but that.


I am hardcore! GO IRISH! WE ARE ND!

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Litote? I have not heard that word in awhile. Guess those nuns did a decent job on my vocabulary.


Dont know EastonPA.

I can and sometimes do, have the same views as the casual fan but I am anything but that.


I am hardcore! GO IRISH! WE ARE ND!

ND gonna fly my friend. Our wings are getting strong.

"Keep your head up to the sky, Fighting Irish passing by!"

 

[OCIrish]

obviously not realizing (or more likely caring about) the self defeating nature of his argument Colin Cowheard talked for at least twenty minutes today on how Notre Dame football is no longer relevent.. he portrayed ND fans as nerds and all the haters and logical and non biased... 'ND isn't that young, plenty of teams are much younger that are winning' (He failed to mention that those teams have a good mix and is led by Seniors where we have Bruton and Crum for the most part) it was pretty brutal... he even acknowledged the legitimacy of an email from Tennessee (go figure right) that said if ND gets into ANY bowl game it is ONLY b/c of the schedule and ratings, they wouldn't have earned a thing, no matter how small the bowl is...
okay a couple things... I know it has been hammered to death... they bash our school... we defend it (like ANY fan base would) thenthey bash us for beliving in our boys and call us blind homers... as if Nebraska fans wouldn't be defensive if they were constantly attacked and we go round and round in circles...
QUOTE]

Just the fact that he spent 20 minutes on us means we're relevant. It's all about ratings. I can't remember who said it best, he's all about entertainment first, sports second.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Quote: "Just the fact that he spent 20 minutes on us means we're relevant. It's all about ratings. I can't remember who said it best, he's all about entertainment first, sports second."

That was me! Yay me!!!!

 

[ARALOU]

Cowherd was all about the Irish two years ago. I listen to him sometimes but not lately. The only decent talk show I get here is Mike and Mike. Even the local guys slam ND alot. I think all those national guys just say stuff to get a rise out if the listeners and ND likely has the most listeners nationwide. I say to hell with them.

 

[kmoose]

1 Boring schedule missing the KEY RIVALRY game that all other schools have.

2 No Conference Championship to win each year

3 No In-Conference referees

4 Hurts us in the polls with voters - obviously I'm speaking only of years where we might be good

5 No continuity between football at ND and the other sports which are in the Big East.

Shall I continue?

1. Perhaps you've never been to an ND-USC, or an ND-Michigan game? Even SI and ESPN usually mention ND-USC, when they have "all time great rivalry" lists.

2. tOSU doesn't have a Conference Championship game, and they have played in plenty of BCS Championship games. ND doesn't need a CC game, because they can schedule big games every year.

3. If you look at the millions of plays that happen in college football every year, and then look at the number of plays that maybe you can say that the officiating was biased, it is such a miniscule amount that it makes no difference whatsoever.

4. Helps us, too, when the conference that we don't belong to is having a really bad year. You think playing in the ACC is helping anyone in the polls this year?

5. Who cares? There's plenty of continuity in ND's football schedule. Michigan, Michigan State, USC, Navy, Stanford, Purdue show up almost every year. So ND has different rivals in football than they have in basketball............who cares? Other than small minded people who are just looking for a reason to hate another school?

Please do continue. Maybe you will finally get to a reason that holds water?

 

[ARALOU]

I can recall several years that the Irish played eight bowl teams. Bowl teams from the previous year or current year. This current schedule looks to be weak but there are several up and coming teams and a few established teams. Ark. St.,
Toledo, Akron, La Tech just to name a few lessor opponents that always find their way onto the schedules of OSU, Bama, Mich, Florida and the likes. So when you say schedule? What is worse? An obvious cupcake or two or a solid string of solid football teams? Hell even Navy could wax several of the big time programs cupcake teams. OSU, in my opinion,
plays the lousiest schedule. The SEC or Big Twelve (this year) are the toughest conferences in the country. They may have the top eight teams between the two of them. They beat up on each other. USC lately cant even make it through a weak Pac Ten schedule. They play tough out of conference but their conference is weak.

Just my opinion though.

 

[NDsuperfan09]

If we ever want to make the leap necessary to join College Footballs Elite and play for BCS games (and be decent competition for the opponent) we need to fire Latina and focus more on DL recruiting. Hell offer the top 30 DT's next year and sign as many as possible. We need all the talent on that side as possible.