Joe Rudolph - Offensive Line Coach

[stpeteirish]

ND always has talent on the line and will always recruit well, my biggest takeaway this year is the play of Blake Fisher.

Tosh Baker was put in in the 4th quarter and he blocked! Send a message to the team, this o-line: bench Fisher and start Baker vs USC.

Fisher is bad but Tosh has played enough to show he’s not the answer- too slow laterally.
Once we get to the “time to play for next year” time (0ne more game?) it’s got to be Wagner. Or somebody.

 

[Grahambo]

Fisher is bad but Tosh has played enough to show he’s not the answer- too slow laterally.
Once we get to the “time to play for next year” time (0ne more game?) it’s got to be Wagner. Or somebody.

I’d like to see Fisher kick inside.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Fisher is bad but Tosh has played enough to show he’s not the answer- too slow laterally.
Once we get to the “time to play for next year” time (0ne more game?) it’s got to be Wagner. Or somebody.

I don’t agree with that assessment on Baker. The last time we really saw Baker play any meaningful snaps was in 2021, which he clearly was not developed enough and ready to play. Per practice reports during fall camp Baker has improved immensely and would be the first tackle in of there was an injury.

What I would like to see is moving Fisher to one of the guard spots and playing Baker or Wagner at RT. Fisher maybe able to dominate at guard as he has been struggling at tackle at times. This move would also sure up the line for 2024. Wagner and Baker starting tackles with a little experience starting the remaining games this year. And Fisher starting at guard with a couple of games experience starting there.

 

[irish4ever]

Is he playing hurt?

Not sure, but he hurt ND by his playing last night. The OL underperformed last week against Duke and last night too!

 

[Luckylucci]

I don’t know who made that decision but our HC signed off in it. What a clown show this is.

Seriously need to fire whoever thought that was a good idea. If it was Rudolph, cool let the new OC pick his OL coach. If it was Parker, that makes it easy. If it was Freeman, well, we’re stuck with his genius for a bit.

 

[T-Boone]

Get that Michigan oline coach in. Offer him double what he is on.

 

[calvegas04]

Get that Michigan oline coach in. Offer him double what he is on.

Yeah, that sounds like something ND would totally do

 

[NDRock]

Yeah, that sounds like something ND would totally do

The sad part is that being cheap ends up costing you more in the long run. It’s expensive paying buyouts to fired coaches plus everything that goes along with having a mediocre product on the field.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I just watched the first half on tape. The OLine actually didn't have that many errors. Most of the half was spent either trying to run into overly stacked boxes (where we generally did reasonably well) or trying to protect Sam when no receiver was getting any separation (Orlovsky mentioned that as his main comment about the ND offense.) There WERE some bad plays.

1. Fisher had a motion penalty.
2. Schrauth got bullied one play where Hartman would have delivered had anyone broke immediately open. On that same play, the back-up center mis-read the rush, and decided to double-team to his right (which was the wrong way ... a late developing blitzer would have messed Sam up if the DT didn't.)
3. The early bad sack wasn't an OLine error. There was a blitz from our left. Our OLine blocked all their assignments correctly. We had a RB back to pick up blitzes. He never moved his head and walked into the middle of the OLine blocking instead of picking the guy up. This back was #3.
4. We had another breakdown on the right side. The line generally blocked down left and Fisher had no work to do so he just leaned in. We also had a TE to that side. They had a LB blitz who sprinted straight off that edge at Sam. The TE just walked forward touching no one (apparently thinking this was not his guy.) Fisher turned his head slow, and missed the blitzer who lit up the play --- which was a horrible playcall anyway.
5. The Alt Pancake. I watched this six times. I find it hard to see what actually happened. It could be just a stumble pancake ... but, Alt's right leg is very oddly extended which gets him off balance and ultimately down. Suspiciously, the left leg of our left guard and the right leg of their other rusher are right in the vicinity of Alt's foot and lower leg. I just wonder if we didn't get the infamous step-on-your-buddy play. I can easily be wrong about that.

Although I haven't watched the second half closely yet, and we might well have stunk then, the first half wasn't terrible for the OLine, especially given HORRIBLE WR/TE separation, and equally punk playcalling. I thought that Sam played a hidden great game. The passes he completed (except for the two true separations, both by Faison) were in impossibly tight windows --- so tight I can't even call them windows most of the time. This has got to be VERY frustrating for him. .... again, maybe we were worse in the second half.

 

[GoIrish41]

I recognized #3 in real time. Payne didn’t even look for a blitzer. He stepped up into the line and took himself out of the action.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I recognized #3 in real time. Payne didn’t even look for a blitzer. He stepped up into the line and took himself out of the action.

yea it was a half hearted play action, but in that situation the back has to realize he is the only one capable of picking up the blitzer and abort his play action duty otherwise nothing else matters anyhow

 

[PutuporShutup]

I recognized #3 in real time. Payne didn’t even look for a blitzer. He stepped up into the line and took himself out of the action.

Yep, no reason for him to be in the game… he’s not bad but he’s not estime love or price

 

[Old Man Mike]

I watched the second half which was more chaotic --- which indicates bad coaching adjustments to me. Fisher also seemed to increase his number of bad awarenesses in this half.

Sam had even less receiver separation to work with and did the only thing that I think he believes he can --- throw it at Evans and hope he muscles the other guys out of it. This bad play design and calling is really irritating to watch (especially in stop action --- I saw one play in which after snap of the ball, the dline of Louisville was further upfield than three of our receivers had yet moved downfield --- are these guys really that slow or are they just mentally paralyzed at the snap?)

The 4th and 13 call with 9 minutes left was the dumbest damm thing I can recall --- somebody should be publicly humiliated for that piece of crap.

The second so-called Alt pancake that the stupid guy announcing was all yelling about, was just Alt engaging a DE in perfectly good blocking when another DLineman decided to just veer off his route and cheapshot him from the side --- ANY OLine goes down from a blindside like that.

Lousy second half, but not mainly the OLine's fault --- not GREAT play, but really bad play design and play calling to work around. Most of the time they provided enough time to pass (should anyone get open) and almost all of the time running plays had 8 (even nine) in the box. I'm not hard on coaches --- but parts of this staff stunk the place up.

I still think that the OLine can be OK. Fisher particularly needs to wake up, he sometimes seems mentally lazy. It's not a popular thought around here, but I've seen him as a power guard for a long time (ever since I noticed that his foot talent doesn't allow him to match the DE spin inside after beating him halfway outside.)

 

[mrmcgrail]

Yeah the alt play I can't imagine that is legal. He was engaged with a player and the other player just blast him in the side

 

[PutuporShutup]

Yeah the alt play I can't imagine that is legal. He was engaged with a player and the other player just blast him in the side

It’s fine… offense can and does it to the dline all the time

 

[T-Boone]

I just watched the first half on tape. The OLine actually didn't have that many errors. Most of the half was spent either trying to run into overly stacked boxes (where we generally did reasonably well) or trying to protect Sam when no receiver was getting any separation (Orlovsky mentioned that as his main comment about the ND offense.) There WERE some bad plays.

1. Fisher had a motion penalty.
2. Schrauth got bullied one play where Hartman would have delivered had anyone broke immediately open. On that same play, the back-up center mis-read the rush, and decided to double-team to his right (which was the wrong way ... a late developing blitzer would have messed Sam up if the DT didn't.)
3. The early bad sack wasn't an OLine error. There was a blitz from our left. Our OLine blocked all their assignments correctly. We had a RB back to pick up blitzes. He never moved his head and walked into the middle of the OLine blocking instead of picking the guy up. This back was #3.
4. We had another breakdown on the right side. The line generally blocked down left and Fisher had no work to do so he just leaned in. We also had a TE to that side. They had a LB blitz who sprinted straight off that edge at Sam. The TE just walked forward touching no one (apparently thinking this was not his guy.) Fisher turned his head slow, and missed the blitzer who lit up the play --- which was a horrible playcall anyway.
5. The Alt Pancake. I watched this six times. I find it hard to see what actually happened. It could be just a stumble pancake ... but, Alt's right leg is very oddly extended which gets him off balance and ultimately down. Suspiciously, the left leg of our left guard and the right leg of their other rusher are right in the vicinity of Alt's foot and lower leg. I just wonder if we didn't get the infamous step-on-your-buddy play. I can easily be wrong about that.

Although I haven't watched the second half closely yet, and we might well have stunk then, the first half wasn't terrible for the OLine, especially given HORRIBLE WR/TE separation, and equally punk playcalling. I thought that Sam played a hidden great game. The passes he completed (except for the two true separations, both by Faison) were in impossibly tight windows --- so tight I can't even call them windows most of the time. This has got to be VERY frustrating for him. .... again, maybe we were worse in the second half.

thanks heaps for doing this.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I watched the second half which was more chaotic --- which indicates bad coaching adjustments to me. Fisher also seemed to increase his number of bad awarenesses in this half.

Sam had even less receiver separation to work with and did the only thing that I think he believes he can --- throw it at Evans and hope he muscles the other guys out of it. This bad play design and calling is really irritating to watch (especially in stop action --- I saw one play in which after snap of the ball, the dline of Louisville was further upfield than three of our receivers had yet moved downfield --- are these guys really that slow or are they just mentally paralyzed at the snap?)

The 4th and 13 call with 9 minutes left was the dumbest damm thing I can recall --- somebody should be publicly humiliated for that piece of crap.

The second so-called Alt pancake that the stupid guy announcing was all yelling about, was just Alt engaging a DE in perfectly good blocking when another DLineman decided to just veer off his route and cheapshot him from the side --- ANY OLine goes down from a blindside like that.

Lousy second half, but not mainly the OLine's fault --- not GREAT play, but really bad play design and play calling to work around. Most of the time they provided enough time to pass (should anyone get open) and almost all of the time running plays had 8 (even nine) in the box. I'm not hard on coaches --- but parts of this staff stunk the place up.

I still think that the OLine can be OK. Fisher particularly needs to wake up, he sometimes seems mentally lazy. It's not a popular thought around here, but I've seen him as a power guard for a long time (ever since I noticed that his foot talent doesn't allow him to match the DE spin inside after beating him halfway outside.)

This is a good writeup OMM. Thank you. I agree with you regarding Fisher moving to guard. I actually mentioned that earlier in this thread.

“What I would like to see is moving Fisher to one of the guard spots and playing Baker or Wagner at RT. Fisher maybe able to dominate at guard, as he has been struggling at tackle at times. This move would also sure up the line for 2024. Wagner and Baker starting tackles with a little experience starting the remaining games this year. And Fisher starting at guard, with a couple of games experience starting there at guard in 2023.”

 

[irish4ever]

I watched the second half which was more chaotic --- which indicates bad coaching adjustments to me. Fisher also seemed to increase his number of bad awarenesses in this half.

Sam had even less receiver separation to work with and did the only thing that I think he believes he can --- throw it at Evans and hope he muscles the other guys out of it. This bad play design and calling is really irritating to watch (especially in stop action --- I saw one play in which after snap of the ball, the dline of Louisville was further upfield than three of our receivers had yet moved downfield --- are these guys really that slow or are they just mentally paralyzed at the snap?)

The 4th and 13 call with 9 minutes left was the dumbest damn thing I can recall --- somebody should be publicly humiliated for that piece of crap.

The second so-called Alt pancake that the stupid guy announcing was all yelling about, was just Alt engaging a DE in perfectly good blocking when another DLineman decided to just veer off his route and cheapshot him from the side --- ANY OLine goes down from a blindside like that.

Lousy second half, but not mainly the OLine's fault --- not GREAT play, but really bad play design and play calling to work around. Most of the time they provided enough time to pass (should anyone get open) and almost all of the time running plays had 8 (even nine) in the box. I'm not hard on coaches --- but parts of this staff stunk the place up.

I still think that the OLine can be OK. Fisher particularly needs to wake up, he sometimes seems mentally lazy. It's not a popular thought around here, but I've seen him as a power guard for a long time (ever since I noticed that his foot talent doesn't allow him to match the DE spin inside after beating him halfway outside.)

The 4th down call was definitely a STUPID BRAIN FART moment by ALL involved in that call! It was like a WTF moment watching it unfold! As far as Fisher's play, I honestly think that need to bench his ass this w/e and see IF that is a wake-up call for him. He's playing like a 2* with little or no previous game experience! Geeesh!!!

 

[Reaper97]

Maybe this should go here.

Postgame Transcript | Notre Dame Head Coach Marcus Freeman

Everything Irish head coach Marcus Freeman said to reporters following Saturday night's loss to Louisville.

irishsportsdaily.com

Harry Heistand did this ALL THE TIME.
In fact, he did it with true Freshman.
Robert Hainsey tells hilarious stories about OL getting thrown into games without zero practice with the 1’s all week & no clue they were playing.
This is completely being blown out of control.
The ND OL, all of them who played, were still more talented than UL & plenty prepared.
They just stunk.

 

[IRISHMAN]

I’d like to see Fisher kick inside.

me too. put fisher at RG and let wagner get a shot at RT.

 

[PutuporShutup]

There needs to be accountability for the top players too.

like others have said, every player makes bad plays, struggles some, but they need to be held accountable. Fisher did get yanked at the end of the game vs Louisville, rightfully so. Even though he's probably our only good option right now at RT, it's ok to send a message to a starter.

"You will not be starting the game vs USC Blake, not because you made mistakes, but because your effort and focus was not up to our standard. You are an upperclassmen leader of the team, and that is unacceptable. How you handle yourself this week in and out of practice, plus the build up to the game will determine when or if you go in"

You could do the same thing for Marist, Brown, and should have to Zeke after the Duke game.

Instead, we have players make the same mistakes over and over, coaches making the same mistakes over and over, and most alarming to me is the effort and discipline.

 

[Reaper97]

Here is what people need to remember, and most on here know this;
OL are different from every other position on the team.

1) They come play for an OL coach, not the HC
2) They come play for a school, not HC
3) They are the tightest knit group on the team

The OL for this team are playing for their third OL coach in 3 years.

Most committed to Jeff Quinn.
A couple committed to HH.
None committed to Rudolph.

Back in December of ‘21, a few things happened I was told had a negative effect on the ND OL.
Jeff Quinn was let go, but was disrespected in the way it happened. All the OL on that team liked Quinn. And most committed to him.
Freeman said the first thing he needed to do was recruit better. Of course fans and sites loved this, but it pissed some current ND players off.

Players sat there, who were 55-9, or 44-6, depending on their class, when Freeman said this, with 2 CFPs & an impending NY6 game…being told they weren’t good by the new HC.
The older OL were pissed.
The younger OL looked up to the older OL, so not only were they offended, they were pissed for their buddies they looked up to.

Then you bring in HH, who was fired or let go by the last three teams not named ND, who came in & yelled at them & told them they all sucked. The OL was bad under HH too.
He bails.

The HC watched a PowerPoint presentation on modern S&C (which is all BS by the way), & decides he needs to tell one of the best S&C coaches in the country how to do his job, & he leaves.
After the OL coach, the S&C coach is who they are closest to.

And HC brings in third OL coach in 3 years, with a new S&C coach, and OC.

I’m not speaking for anybody, especially not all the OL, but more than one OL (past & present) aren’t fans of Marcus Freeman.

Just imagine it’s you.
Graduating ND, after 4 years, and in those four years you went 44-6, 2 CFPs & and a NY6 game, and the “bad year” you were 11-2 with a Bowl Win.
And the new HC, multiple times, in multiple interviews, says ND needs to recruit better.
You would be pissed.
And now he is 14-7.
So more losses in 30 less games.

OL are different dudes.
They aren’t impressed by any of this.
It shows.

 

[fightingirish26]

Here is what people need to remember, and most on here know this;
OL are different from every other position on the team.

1) They come play for an OL coach, not the HC
2) They come play for a school, not HC
3) They are the tightest knit group on the team

The OL for this team are playing for their third OL coach in 3 years.

Most committed to Jeff Quinn.
A couple committed to HH.
None committed to Rudolph.

Back in December of ‘21, a few things happened I was told had a negative effect on the ND OL.
Jeff Quinn was let go, but was disrespected in the way it happened. All the OL on that team liked Quinn. And most committed to him.
Freeman said the first thing he needed to do was recruit better. Of course fans and sites loved this, but it pissed some current ND players off.

Players sat there, who were 55-9, or 44-6, depending on their class, when Freeman said this, with 2 CFPs & an impending NY6 game…being told they weren’t good by the new HC.
The older OL were pissed.
The younger OL looked up to the older OL, so not only were they offended, they were pissed for their buddies they looked up to.

Then you bring in HH, who was fired or let go by the last three teams not named ND, who came in & yelled at them & told them they all sucked. The OL was bad under HH too.
He bails.

The HC watched a PowerPoint presentation on modern S&C (which is all BS by the way), & decides he needs to tell one of the best S&C coaches in the country how to do his job, & he leaves.
After the OL coach, the S&C coach is who they are closest to.

And HC brings in third OL coach in 3 years, with a new S&C coach, and OC.

I’m not speaking for anybody, especially not all the OL, but more than one OL (past & present) aren’t fans of Marcus Freeman.

Just imagine it’s you.
Graduating ND, after 4 years, and in those four years you went 44-6, 2 CFPs & and a NY6 game, and the “bad year” you were 11-2 with a Bowl Win.
And the new HC, multiple times, in multiple interviews, says ND needs to recruit better.
You would be pissed.
And now he is 14-7.
So more losses in 30 less games.

OL are different dudes.
They aren’t impressed by any of this.
It shows.

If this is true our OL sounds soft af

 

[Reaper97]

If this is true our OL sounds soft af

Opposite.
You think the OL who won way more than Freeman has, are soft because they aren’t impressed with his crap?

He talks cool, he’s young, good looking, blah, blah, blah. He loses.

OL aren’t impressed by that.
I’m not impressed by it.

ND fans caught up in Freeman hype are soft.

 

[fightingirish26]

Opposite.
You think the OL who won way more than Freeman has, are soft because they aren’t impressed with his crap?

He talks cool, he’s young, good looking, blah, blah, blah. He loses.

OL aren’t impressed by that.
I’m not impressed by it.

ND fans caught up in Freeman hype are soft.

I'm far from being a Freeman hype guy but cool

 

[NDFAN2008]

Opposite.
You think the OL who won way more than Freeman has, are soft because they aren’t impressed with his crap?

He talks cool, he’s young, good looking, blah, blah, blah. He loses.

OL aren’t impressed by that.
I’m not impressed by it.

ND fans caught up in Freeman hype are soft.

The problem is the players all went to Jack and wanted Freeman too be the guy. I call BS on Freeman telling Balis how to coach tho.

 

[PutuporShutup]

The problem is the players all went to Jack and wanted Freeman too be the guy. I call BS on Freeman telling Balis how to coach tho.

Freeman himself stated he wanted changes, i don't think it's how to "coach strength". But he wanted way more tech/analytics.

What we're finding out is freeman wants something to tell him all the answers, rather than his own knowledge.

I'm sure the analytics stated, if you don't score this drive the odds are heavily you won't beat Louisville, but he probably didn't run the odds of, if you don't make this 4th and 11 on your own 35, this ends the game, with 9 frichan minutes left in the game down 11.

 

[spoonidentity]

Here is what people need to remember, and most on here know this;
OL are different from every other position on the team.

1) They come play for an OL coach, not the HC
2) They come play for a school, not HC
3) They are the tightest knit group on the team

The OL for this team are playing for their third OL coach in 3 years.

Most committed to Jeff Quinn.
A couple committed to HH.
None committed to Rudolph.

Back in December of ‘21, a few things happened I was told had a negative effect on the ND OL.
Jeff Quinn was let go, but was disrespected in the way it happened. All the OL on that team liked Quinn. And most committed to him.
Freeman said the first thing he needed to do was recruit better. Of course fans and sites loved this, but it pissed some current ND players off.

Players sat there, who were 55-9, or 44-6, depending on their class, when Freeman said this, with 2 CFPs & an impending NY6 game…being told they weren’t good by the new HC.
The older OL were pissed.
The younger OL looked up to the older OL, so not only were they offended, they were pissed for their buddies they looked up to.

Then you bring in HH, who was fired or let go by the last three teams not named ND, who came in & yelled at them & told them they all sucked. The OL was bad under HH too.
He bails.

The HC watched a PowerPoint presentation on modern S&C (which is all BS by the way), & decides he needs to tell one of the best S&C coaches in the country how to do his job, & he leaves.
After the OL coach, the S&C coach is who they are closest to.

And HC brings in third OL coach in 3 years, with a new S&C coach, and OC.

I’m not speaking for anybody, especially not all the OL, but more than one OL (past & present) aren’t fans of Marcus Freeman.

Just imagine it’s you.
Graduating ND, after 4 years, and in those four years you went 44-6, 2 CFPs & and a NY6 game, and the “bad year” you were 11-2 with a Bowl Win.
And the new HC, multiple times, in multiple interviews, says ND needs to recruit better.
You would be pissed.
And now he is 14-7.
So more losses in 30 less games.

OL are different dudes.
They aren’t impressed by any of this.
It shows.

Interesting tidbits all around - a few questions:

Where did you hear this nugget about a PowerPoint presentation and Balis left because of that?

I figured the players were smart enough to know that he wasn't talking about better offensive line recruiting - more that corner back and wide receiver recruiting needed to be on par with offensive line quality recruits.

Who are the OL that have left since Freeman started? Lugg and Patterson? I mean, they can have their opinions, others on the OL can as well.

Golic Jr. Is definitely ND friendly in the media, but he's never given a modicum or hint of some sort of discontent with former OL having issues with Freeman. In fact, he seems to welcome the O-Line and D-Line driven philosophy because it emphasizes the importance of the offensive line.

Again, just interesting, would want to hear more.

 

[IrishLax]

Here is what people need to remember, and most on here know this;
OL are different from every other position on the team.

1) They come play for an OL coach, not the HC
2) They come play for a school, not HC
3) They are the tightest knit group on the team

The OL for this team are playing for their third OL coach in 3 years.

Most committed to Jeff Quinn.
A couple committed to HH.
None committed to Rudolph.

Back in December of ‘21, a few things happened I was told had a negative effect on the ND OL.
Jeff Quinn was let go, but was disrespected in the way it happened. All the OL on that team liked Quinn. And most committed to him.
Freeman said the first thing he needed to do was recruit better. Of course fans and sites loved this, but it pissed some current ND players off.

Players sat there, who were 55-9, or 44-6, depending on their class, when Freeman said this, with 2 CFPs & an impending NY6 game…being told they weren’t good by the new HC.
The older OL were pissed.
The younger OL looked up to the older OL, so not only were they offended, they were pissed for their buddies they looked up to.

Then you bring in HH, who was fired or let go by the last three teams not named ND, who came in & yelled at them & told them they all sucked. The OL was bad under HH too.
He bails.

The HC watched a PowerPoint presentation on modern S&C (which is all BS by the way), & decides he needs to tell one of the best S&C coaches in the country how to do his job, & he leaves.
After the OL coach, the S&C coach is who they are closest to.

And HC brings in third OL coach in 3 years, with a new S&C coach, and OC.

I’m not speaking for anybody, especially not all the OL, but more than one OL (past & present) aren’t fans of Marcus Freeman.

Just imagine it’s you.
Graduating ND, after 4 years, and in those four years you went 44-6, 2 CFPs & and a NY6 game, and the “bad year” you were 11-2 with a Bowl Win.
And the new HC, multiple times, in multiple interviews, says ND needs to recruit better.
You would be pissed.
And now he is 14-7.
So more losses in 30 less games.

OL are different dudes.
They aren’t impressed by any of this.
It shows.

I was intrigued reading this until the part about Balis. Balis leaving had nothing to do with Freeman "watching a PowerPoint" or any staff dysfunction it was because of stuff outside of ND. So now I have to question pretty much everything else in this post.

 

[Giddyup]

Time to bring in Nebraska’s old S&C coach if he’s still alive and start the anabolics