Jim-Jim

[Riddickulous]

Yeah, I'm talking about Jimmy Clausen.

Did anyone else recognize the noticeable change in the way Clausen holds the ball before he throws? The last two years, he sort of had the ball held at shoulder height. Now he's holding it at the numbers. Why is this? Does it improve accuracy or pass strength?

 

[BGIF]

Yeah, I'm talking about Jimmy Clausen.

Did anyone else recognize the noticeable change in the way Clausen holds the ball before he throws? The last two years, he sort of had the ball held at shoulder height. Now he's holding it at the numbers. Why is this? Does it improve accuracy or pass strength?

Did not notice.

Where did he hold it during the Hawaii game?

 

[jason_h537]

Last 2 game

9 TDs
7 Incomplete passes

 

[Riddickulous]

Did not notice.

Where did he hold it during the Hawaii game?

He held it cocked up at the shoulder.

 

[Riddickulous]

I just watched some clips from the Hawai'i Bowl.

The Hawai'i Bowl - Clausen holds the ball in the exact same spot as he does when stepping into his throw: at shoulder height.

Nevada - Clausen holds the ball at the numbers, then proceeds to put the ball up to his shoulder when preparing to make the throw.

Holding the ball at chest height is a lot safer than holding it at shoulder height. When Clausen is blindsided or hit from behind, if the ball is at his shoulder, he is at a much higher risk of fumbling, as the defender can reach his arm over and swat and the exposed football.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I just watched some clips from the Hawai'i Bowl.

The Hawai'i Bowl - Clausen holds the ball in the exact same spot as he does when stepping into his throw: at shoulder height.

Nevada - Clausen holds the ball at the numbers, then proceeds to put the ball up to his shoulder when preparing to make the throw.

Holding the ball at chest height is a lot safer than holding it at shoulder height. When Clausen is blindsided or hit from behind, if the ball is at his shoulder, he is at a much higher risk of fumbling, as the defender can reach his arm over and swat and the exposed football.

Very true, however, holding it down there makes it take longer to go through the whole motion of the throw. Holding it higher makes it for a quicker motion, giving defense's less time to react. Maybe he is just more comfortable holding it at the numbers, I don't know. If he keeps throwing like he did today though, he can turn around and throw it between his legs and I'll be happy.

 

[IrishInFl]

Correct me If I'm wrong, but I think Jimmy only threw one bad pass (the swing pass to Allen).

 

[IHateMarkMay]

That one to Rudolph over the middle should have been lower. However, you could tell Rudolph was upset that he didn't catch it anyway.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

Correct me If I'm wrong, but I think Jimmy only threw one bad pass (the swing pass to Allen).

He overthrew Floyd once early in the game (we scored on the drive anyway) and he missed Rudolph down the middle once. Now Kyle said he would like to have that one back, but it was a little high.

But the fact that we are talking about 2 or 3 missed throws the entire game has shown how far he has come.

 

[NDMontana]

The best apart about that game was the defense stopping a legitamately good offense. As far as JC goes, well, I don't want to be a downer and obviously I want the best for ND but he just doesn't throw the ball down field. Do you guys think JC is going to be able to throw jump balls--like he did against Hawai'i and Nevada--against Michigan or USC or our eventual bowl opponent? I don't.

However, I think this team is much improved overall.

 

[NDinL.A.]

But the fact that we are talking about 2 or 3 missed throws the entire game has shown how far he has come.

Or it shows how absolutely pathetically ridiculous we fans can be!

Remember, JC is being coached by Ron Powlus. Old-timers will remember Powlus used to hold the ball really high, and used to almost pump the his arms (and the ball) while he was waiting for receivers to get open. Hard to explain but if you saw it you know what I'm talking about. My buddies and I in high school used to always pretend we were Powlus when we'd play. Clausen also held the ball up high, just like Powlus last year. I didn't notice the switch this year, but maybe his personal QB coach had something to do with it. But that's all pure speculation at this point...

 

[NDinL.A.]

The best apart about that game was the defense stopping a legitamately good offense. As far as JC goes, well, I don't want to be a downer and obviously I want the best for ND but he just doesn't throw the ball down field. Do you guys think JC is going to be able to throw jump balls--like he did against Hawai'i and Nevada--against Michigan or USC or our eventual bowl opponent? I don't.

However, I think this team is much improved overall.

Welcome back Montana! I know what you're saying about the jump balls, but those were few and far between in both games. Go look at the games again, and you'll see his passes were almost flawless; there were only one or two in the entire game. He did that much more last year, before the Hawaii game.

He definitely threw the ball down field. The TD pass in the seam to Floyd was a 24 yards strike. Same to Rudolph, who's first catch was 19 yards but he caught it 9 yards deep in the endzone, and Jimmy put it on an absolute dot to Rudolph. Impeccable throw. The score would have been much, much worse, but I think CW stayed vanilla after the 5th TD so as not to show a lot to Mich (Mich did the same thing).

Regardless, we'll know more about whether you are right about his deep throws after probably the 3rd game...

 

[NDMontana]

Welcome back Montana! I know what you're saying about the jump balls, but those were few and far between in both games. Go look at the games again, and you'll see his passes were almost flawless; there were only one or two in the entire game. He did that much more last year, before the Hawaii game.

He definitely threw the ball down field. The TD pass in the seam to Floyd was a 24 yards strike. Same to Rudolph, who's first catch was 19 yards but he caught it 9 yards deep in the endzone, and Jimmy put it on an absolute dot to Rudolph. Impeccable throw. The score would have been much, much worse, but I think CW stayed vanilla after the 5th TD so as not to show a lot to Mich (Mich did the same thing).

Regardless, we'll know more about whether you are right about his deep throws after probably the 3rd game...

Are you as happy as I am that this season is finally here!?

Here's what I saw--you're right about the throw to Rudolph--but the 89 yard TD to Floyd and the catch Golden Tate made (that had to be reviewed) were pure jump balls. I just don't think you get those balls against USC or Michigan. Especially when you consider that Nevada had to blitz and play more men in the box because of the effective running game. USC will not have to do that so not only will we be facing more talented corners but they'll have safety help.

In any case, I know that you're right about knowing more after the third game. It's too early for me to say anything with a high degree certainity.

Well, I can say one thing, the defense is much improved. Nevada's defense isn't very good but their offense certainly is and the defense completely shut them down; that was exciting and gives mre more hope than anything else.

 

[BGIF]

I just watched some clips from the Hawai'i Bowl.

The Hawai'i Bowl - Clausen holds the ball in the exact same spot as he does when stepping into his throw: at shoulder height.

Nevada - Clausen holds the ball at the numbers, then proceeds to put the ball up to his shoulder when preparing to make the throw.

Holding the ball at chest height is a lot safer than holding it at shoulder height. When Clausen is blindsided or hit from behind, if the ball is at his shoulder, he is at a much higher risk of fumbling, as the defender can reach his arm over and swat and the exposed football.

When you posed the question ball security seemed a logical benefit but you were asking about it improving accuracy and passing strength. I didn't see any connection to accuracy or strength.

 

[JefMaj]

Floyd gets those balls against most CBs - he's going to have 3 inches (or more) on most. Last year JC threw some great leading passes - one (deep) in particular I remember to Grimes - where he laid out and caught it, was called incomplete, and everyone on the planet, except the D's family and the replay judge knew he caught it.

JC was great - this was his 1st game - not many QBs looked this good first game. Sam looked weak against BYU before he went down. Colt threw Ints.

I'm excited.

 

[NDMontana]

Floyd gets those balls against most CBs - he's going to have 3 inches (or more) on most. Last year JC threw some great leading passes - one (deep) in particular I remember to Grimes - where he laid out and caught it, was called incomplete, and everyone on the planet, except the D's family and the replay judge knew he caught it.

JC was great - this was his 1st game - not many QBs looked this good first game. Sam looked weak against BYU before he went down. Colt threw Ints.

I'm excited.

USC

Kevin Thomas CB 6'1'' 185, 4.43 40, 37 inch vertical
Josh Pinkard CB 6'2'' 210, 4.55 40, 35 inch vertical
Will Harris S 6'1'' 200, 4.6 40, 42 inch vertical
Taylor Mays S 6'3'' 230, 4.25 40, 41 inch vertical

Notre Dame
Michael Floyd 6'3'' 200, 4.55 40, 38 inch vertical
Golden Tate 5'11'' 195, 4.44 40, couldn't find his vertical but I'll guess 45 (fair?)

Any way, it looks to me like USC's DB's can cover our guys.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I think 40 times are stupid these days. I think they figured out when Usain Bolt ran his last world record 100 time that he would have run a 4.26 40. That is saying these kids can keep up with the fastest man on the planet. My ass. I wouldn't be surprised if PtC lowered them just to make them look good and intimidate some players. Same with Jim Tressel timing Terelle Pryor at a 4.32.

 

[NDMontana]

I think 40 times are stupid these days. I think they figured out when Usain Bolt ran his last world record 100 time that he would have run a 4.26 40. That is saying these kids can keep up with the fastest man on the planet. My ass. I wouldn't be surprised if PtC lowered them just to make them look good and intimidate some players. Same with Jim Tressel timing Terelle Pryor at a 4.32.

I got those 40 times from Scout.com so PC didn't get his manipulative little hands on those times.

You can say 40 times don't matter.....but they do. What seperates USC from San Jose State or even ND isn't strength, we have guys that bench what their guys bench, it isn't size, we're as big.....it's speed.

Speed kills. What else needs to be said. Speed is why the Big 10 struggles vs. the Big XII or the SEC. Speed, speed, speed.

So 40 times may not matter but what they indicate does matter.

 

[Riddickulous]

Keep in mind that Floyd has massive strides, he's going a hell of a lot faster than it looks.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I am sorry, I did not mean that they dont matter, I just think that many people and services exaggerate the number is all.

 

[NDMontana]

I am sorry, I did not mean that they dont matter, I just think that many people and services exaggerate the number is all.

No doubt on my end that our WR's are big time studs, no doubt!

It's just not going to be as easy to get those balls versus some of the better teams on our schedule. Plus USC and even Michigan State won't have to load up to stop the run against us so they'll have safety help.

I still think we'll beat everyone except USC. Which is not to say I think we won't beat USC, I just can't say that I'm confident enough to make such haughty predictions.

 

[Riddickulous]

I am sorry, I did not mean that they dont matter, I just think that many people and services exaggerate the number is all.

A 40 time is probably the most overrated thing in football. "You run good routes, you create seperation, you make good cuts, you have great hands...but, wait, you don't run a 4.4? You're never playing for us!" That seems to be the philosophy in today's football world.

 

[dshans]

Yeah, I'm talking about Jimmy Clausen.

Did anyone else recognize the noticeable change in the way Clausen holds the ball before he throws? The last two years, he sort of had the ball held at shoulder height. Now he's holding it at the numbers. Why is this? Does it improve accuracy or pass strength?

Glad you brought this up, CtF. I spent a lot of time, futilely, screaming at Jimmy through my TV set his first two years to "quit wasting time striking a pose" and concentrate on moving effectively both in and out of the pocket and then quickly delivering the ball when the time came.

To my inexpert eye he would take the snap (whether under center or shotgun), take a few steps, "pose," pat the ball with his left hand while it was tucked between his helmet and shoulder pad, pull the ball down, move a bit, "pose" again (repeat as needed) and then finally get a pass off; all too often a bit late. The "window" was closed while he spent too much time on a stylish technique.

I didn't focus on his mechanics at the Hawaii Bowl but saw a glimmer of hope in one of the clips I watched of a Fall practice. The time-consuming "routine" was gone and the process of getting the ball, assessing the situation down field and delivering the ball was streamlined and shortened.

It's not a lot of time, but a second or two can be crucial. Perhaps eliminating a few unnecessary steps quickens his delivery without affecting accuracy or arm strength.

I meant to watch closely to see if the change I saw in practice clips carried over to his play in the game. My own pre-game warm-up "routine" of Jameson with Guinness chasers torpedoed that plan and his success from the get-go made it irrelevant.

 

[NDMontana]

A 40 time is probably the most overrated thing in football. "You run good routes, you create seperation, you make good cuts, you have great hands...but, wait, you don't run a 4.4? You're never playing for us!" That seems to be the philosophy in today's football world.

You just unintentionally made my point. Thanks!

Speed doesn't matter when you're playing against players of comparable speed. So USC's DB's vs. our WR's is when route running becomes important. Our receivers won't outrun USC's DB's like they out ran Nevada's DB's. We won't win jump balls over USC's DB's.

But you're crazy if you think that speed, as in ND vs. Nevada or San Jose State vs. USC isn't the difference maker. It wouldn't matter if SJSU had the greatest route runners in history on their team; they could never beat USC. USC's second team would kill SJSU and it's because of speed, which the 40 measures and it is an important measure because most plays are 40 yards or less and/or require players to move an aggregate of about 40 yards. I don't want to be rude but if the 40 wasn't an important measure the NFL and the major college teams wouldn't use it as a metric...unless you know more about evaluating football players than NFL execs and major college football recruiting coordinators.

 

[Riddickulous]

You just unintentionally made my point. Thanks!

Speed doesn't matter when you're playing against players of comparable speed. So USC's DB's vs. our WR's is when route running becomes important. Our receivers won't outrun USC's DB's like they out ran Nevada's DB's. We won't win jump balls over USC's DB's.

But you're crazy if you think that speed, as in ND vs. Nevada or San Jose State vs. USC isn't the difference maker. It wouldn't matter if SJSU had the greatest route runners in history on their team; they could never beat USC. USC's second team would kill SJSU and it's because of speed, which the 40 measures and it is an important measure because most plays are 40 yards or less and/or require players to move an aggregate of about 40 yards. I don't want to be rude but if the 40 wasn't an important measure the NFL and the major college teams wouldn't use it as a metric...unless you know more about evaluating football players than NFL execs and major college football recruiting coordinators.

I disagree with one point. If Michael Floyd and any defensive back went up for a jump ball, there is NO WAY IN HELL the corner is coming down with that football. No way.

 

[jason_h537]

I think 40 times are stupid these days. I think they figured out when Usain Bolt ran his last world record 100 time that he would have run a 4.26 40. That is saying these kids can keep up with the fastest man on the planet. My ass. I wouldn't be surprised if PtC lowered them just to make them look good and intimidate some players. Same with Jim Tressel timing Terelle Pryor at a 4.32.

Sorry to burts your rant but Usain Bolt would have run a 3.86 40

thats right they think he would run a 3.86 forty

 

[Riddickulous]

Sorry to burts your rant but Usain Bolt would have run a 3.86 40

thats right they think he would run a 3.86 forty

No, he wouldn't.

Runners like Usain Bolt take a long, long time to hit full speed. That's why he's neck and neck with the other runners until he hits 60 meters.

 

[NDMontana]

I disagree with one point. If Michael Floyd and any defensive back went up for a jump ball, there is NO WAY IN HELL the corner is coming down with that football. No way.

One-on-one....no way. But USC, with their corners and a safety like Mays coming over the top, will probably win most jump balls. Mays is 6'3'' 215 and his vertical is higher than Floyds so tough call. I still think the USC game will be different this year because we can put five legitimate threats on the field in the form of Rudolph, Tate, Floyd, Allen and Kamara. USC is going to be stretched out against us. So we'll see what happens but this is the first time in years that I'm not dreading the USC game; and I'm not saying that because of their freshmen QB, I'm saying that because our team is different this year (athletically and maturity wise).

 

[jason_h537]

No, he wouldn't.

Runners like Usain Bolt take a long, long time to hit full speed. That's why he's neck and neck with the other runners until he hits 60 meters.

I did'nt say he would. I said that based on his 100 time they have deterimined he would run a 3.86. Also these are the FASTEST men in the world. Their "long time to hit full speed" is still faster than any football player. He would definitely break 4 seconds

 

[TDHeysus]

Yeah, I'm talking about Jimmy Clausen.

Did anyone else recognize the noticeable change in the way Clausen holds the ball before he throws? The last two years, he sort of had the ball held at shoulder height. Now he's holding it at the numbers. Why is this? Does it improve accuracy or pass strength?

I noticed this when they showed him pregame throwing the ball around...he would drop back, hesitate, then throw the ball. I actually thought, why is he doing that?????

it became obvious to me on the first play, first few plays really, what he was doing. On alot of snaps, they are running RB/WR behind JC during the snap, where JC fakes to that RB/WR, then looks to make a pass. on a couple plays he handed it off, I think GTate got at least one reverse that way.