ISIS

yankeeND

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The 19 hijackers on 9/11 didn't need a caliphate's support to pull off what they did. An ISIS presence in Syria/Iraq is a different animal, only loosely related.

9/11, as tragic as it was, is small scale to the kinds of things that worry me about this war on terrorism. Honestly you nor I have any clue to what they are actually capable of until they pull something off, but knowing that terrorists made something like 9/11 happen however, opens the depths of my fears to no bounds. You nor I do not have hate in our heart for the differences of our fellow man, but unfortunately for us, there are others that do. I hope for our sake that you are right and that their threat is not nearly as dire as I fear.
 

DonnieNarco

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Happy fear-mongering! A good way to get America to blow trillions and put the country on an even worse path.
 

alohagoirish

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ISIS is a creation of the misguided American invasion of Iraq. Not only did we remove the stabilizing force in the middle east--the mostly secular & fascist state of Hussein but we then decide to flip control of the country from SUNNI to SHITE for the first time in its history. Its a remarkable miscalculation that should never have been tried.

As bad as it was to invade the wrong country , since the 9/11 attack was funded, planned and carried out by Saudi Arabians who were sheltered by the Taliban--Hussein was uninvolved, nonetheless had we at least kept the Bath party in control and installed our own puppet strong man ISIS would never have developed.

Instead we destabilized the entire area, created a massive power vacuum , and gave Iraq to the Iranian sphere of influence. Hussein may have been a throwback to the fascist regimes of the 30s but in retrospect was hyper progressive compared to the theocracy's, kingdoms, and al Qaeda brand fundamentalism that now run the entire region.

ISIS is for the most part , al Qaeda in Iraq , the same people we were fighting for years with many of the former Hussein army and supporters shoved into that corner rather then submitting to a Shite majority rule driven by Iran.

This was so stupid it almost defies explanation--we did essentially everything wrong , invaded the wrong country and let the Saudi's have their fun, we got rid of the Secular fascists who were the major counterbalance to both Al Qaeda and Iran. There was NO al Qaeda in Iraq before our invasion. The war drove 100s of thousands of Sunni refugees into Syria acting as catalyst for what is there now--- now we have this total mess of dysfunction and chaos that unfortunately has characterized this region or a very long time.

Its fine to call the beheaders evil but we are far from without sin in this region, there is plenty of blood on our hands as well for reasons that were at best misguided and at worse deceptive .

We should have understood that the strongmen in the middle east were a step forward in that regions development, and although lacking from our perspective were wildly progressive compared with the alternative. The status of women and their participation in the economy and politic of Islamic nations was the best on any Islamic country in the mostly secular Iraq.

We have unleashed a monster , and its going to be very hard to contain it now with the strongmen of the region fading away. And totally unclear if even another US led invasion could solve this total destabilization that permeates the area or instead make it worse once again!

Isis did not evolve without a history and we our up to our neck in that history---

Since the 1950s America and US policy has been all over the middle east---we have bases on the Arabian peninsula , we have shelled , invaded , or shocked and awed Afghanistan. Lebanon , Iraq Twice ,Lybia---we have sold our soul to the Saudi kingdom for oil and let them totally slide on the 9/11 attack they were up to their neck in-- we created Bin laden and armed and nurtured the TALIBAN during the soviet invasion--we have overthrown the secular leader of IRAN in the 50s, we did in Hussein, Khadafi, we give bundles of aid to EGYPT & PAKISTAN we flood the entire region with massive amounts of weapons etc etc etc

What we have now is dangerous perhaps much more dangerous than our overblown fears of Hussien or even Iran---we have made dysfunction and chaos the new Islamic ideology.

Isis is evil, it is bad news , but we are inexorably connected to all these events by our own overbearing and overreaching attempts to control the development of this region.

When we measure what to do now and how to do it , we should at the minimum go into this with realism and a full understanding of what has happened.
 

BobD

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This is ignorant and bordering on the insane.

No, sitting around and either making excuses on how we caused this situation or trying to convince ourselves it not as bad as is seems is insane. We didn't create this situation but we did wack a hornets nest one too many times.

I despise war and try to love everyone, but ignoring facts and the obvious because we're scared to admit or face the truth is insane.

It cracks me up that we (The United States) think "this isn't a religious War" because we say its not. Somehow we've convinced ourselves that it's only about religion if both sides say it is.

We ARE NOT at war with Islam, BUT:

Islam has a problem within and they aren't addressing it. There are only two reasons why people do or don't do things. 1) They're unwilling.- Or - 2) They're unable. We need to determine if it's 1 or 2 and get this under control any way we can.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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1) I don't think ISIS calls for another full blown war.

2) I do think it calls for A TON of special forces teams and drones ready to roll every day.

3) They've killed Americans, and they're going to kill more. They've announced future attacks inside the US, I believe at a big mall or something like that.

So if an attack takes place in the US and hundreds or thousands are killed in that kind of attack, we just shrug our shoulders and say, "Aw shucks, this is what we get because we caused ISIS"???

That, my friends, is weak and insane.
 
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Cackalacky

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The myth of the caliphate and the Islamic State - Al Jazeera English


-ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Afzal Ashraf
Afzal Ashraf is a consultant fellow at Royal United Services Institute for Defence and Security Studies (RUSI) and served in the UK Armed Forces. He was involved in developing a counterinsurgency strategy and in the policing and the justice sectors in Iraq.


Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's declaration of an Islamic State and caliphate is potentially good news for patriotic Iraqis, the international community, and the majority of Muslims. It is bad news for al-Qaeda, whose credibility may be irreversibly damaged. The way the world responds to the caliphate also provides an opportunity to destroy the political myths that sustain and attract recruits to extremist ideologies.
The new caliph presents Muslims with a choice to accept him or be assumed apostate and so, liable to be killed. This has precedence in medieval Europe, rather than in Muslim history. A medieval Christian king would declare cuius regio, eius et religio or to whom belongs the realm also belongs the religion, requiring subjects to accept his religion, leave or be killed.
Ibrahim's (as the new caliph wants to be known) declaration nullifies his group's current and any future alliances. The Sunni tribesmen and ex-Baathists supporting the Islamic State group, formerly known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, in the insurgency now, have to either succumb to the caliph's authority or risk being killed.
No doubt some will bow to the caliphate. Hot heads from across the world will be drawn to this latest craze in theo-pop boy bands. But most will wretch at the idea of complete religious and political submission to a man whose authority rests solely on his ability to mastermind an armed rebellion. So, Ibrahim's new caliphate came into effect with an implicit declaration of war against all.
Cynical exploitation
That the group has chosen to become known as the Islamic State (IS) rather than any of its previous titles involving the word "Iraq", betrays its cynical exploitation of national politics for its own objectives. The nationalist ex-Baathists and patriotic tribesmen will likely feel aggrieved by the group's hijacking of their cause for a wider pan-Islamist agenda. For some, the betrayal will need avenging through violence.
For the Shia, the Kurds and the Christians, the Islamic State's declaration means that they will not have a voice within its territory. These extremists have a tradition of destroying any shrine, grave or relic that could be used for worship by any religion, including Islam, which doesn't follow their exclusive creed. The Kurds stand to lose their secular and accommodating culture.

Counting the cost - Iraq : The money behind the rebellion
By threatening the national boundaries, beliefs and identities of the people in the region, the caliphate could unite otherwise disparate agendas within Iraq. While last week some Kurds might have considered the Islamic State a catalyst for their dream of an independent Kurdistan, now they will see the group as a threat to their nation.
Europe, the US and Russia were already concerned about the future dangers posed by the Islamic State. Their concerns will have been heightened by Ibrahim's self-appointed papacy.
So within the constraints of doing business with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, with each other and with Iran and the other players in Iraq, they will wish to increase their contribution to fight against this caliphate project, providing an opportunity for Iraqis and regional powers to work for a common purpose.
No matter what happens to the caliphate, al-Qaeda stands to suffer, possibly irrecoverably. Al-Qaeda's most creative contribution to jihadist ideology was to focus on fighting the faraway enemy, the West, rather than the near enemy, the "apostate" Muslim regimes. However, 9/11 and other inspired attacks in Europe failed to achieve their aim of making the West abandon its support of most Muslim regimes.
Instead, those attacks had the opposite effect. Western forces occupied more Muslim lands with more Muslims killed and with a greater loss of wealth and dignity. US counterterrorism operations resulted in Osama bin Laden and all but one of his deputies being killed over the last decade. The capability of al-Qaeda to plan and conduct terrorism was castrated and its prodigious propaganda output hugely constrained in recent years. The US reduced the organisation from being the number one global threat to a paper tiger.
The fact that the Islamic State group had sought al-Qaeda recognition but fought other al-Qaeda groups in Syria, refused to listen to its leader's pleas to refrain, and was eventually expelled, is highly significant. It proves that al-Qaeda's ideology is contradictory. On the one hand, it misappropriates theology to define Islam primarily through the lens of participation in a violent jihad. This implicitly suggests that compromise was a sin in the religion and the cause of Islamic decline.
On the other hand, it has repeatedly tried to restrain its affiliates and associates from using too much violence and from making too many enemies, for reasons of political pragmatism. This is a conundrum that many extremists, by definition, cannot resolve.
Too many enemies
Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri progressively lost authority because of his inability or unwillingness to participate in violent action for over a decade. Unsurprisingly, the Islamic State group ignored his instructions to behave in Syria. The group's apparent success highlights al-Qaeda's failures. The Islamic State group's unattractive style of jihad points to the ultimate conclusion of al-Qaeda's ideology - one that is so bloodthirsty, it kills its own.
If the international community, regional powers, and what remains of Iraq unite to fight the caliphate, then its tenure will certainly be short-lived. But for success to be sustained, it is important to not just defeat the threat, but also to discredit the motivating ideology.
Having made extravagant promises of capturing Baghdad and uniting a swathe of land from India to Spain, halting Caliph Ibrahim's ambitions should send a powerful message to all extremists with theo-political ambitions: as with al-Qaeda, such strategies are doomed to failure. Unfortunately, extremists ignore political reality and so it is important also to explain the false premises on which the idea of the caliphate and an Islamic state are based.
Caliph or Khalifa in Arabic, is used in Islamic tradition to connote theological successors to prophets. According to Sunni Muslims, the prophet of Islam had four "Rightly Guided" caliphs; subsequent caliphs were principally political leaders. A myth developed with the abolition of the Ottoman Caliphate in 1924, which advocated that to restore Islamic power it was necessary to unite all Muslims under a single caliphate.
Osama bin Laden lamented in a speech that the Muslim world had been deprived of a caliphate since the Ottomans. Few Muslims noticed the amusing irony in his comments. His Wahhabi-Saudi compatriots had revolted against the Ottomans, and hence that very caliphate and its brand of Islam.
False political notions
The Ottoman caliphate coincided with the Safavid caliphate and the Mughal Empire, which occasionally claimed a caliphate. The Ottomans and the Safavids even went to war with each other. So, the idea of Islamic unity under a political caliphate, rather than a prophetic one, has no basis in history. Until Muslim scholars make that point clear, the uneducated will continue to be radicalised by false political notions.
The idea of restoring territorial unity under a single Islamic state has its roots in an even more recent myth. Abdullah Azzam, a former Muslim Brotherhood member, introduced into his writings the idea that jihad in Islam was an individual obligation to recover erstwhile Muslim territory. This 40-year-old idea is the primary concept used by ideologues to radicalise recruits to fight for an Islamic state.
The inevitable counterattack on the caliphate will expose the absurdity and failure of this anarchic idea just as those of al-Qaeda have been exposed. To sustain that success, the rest of us need to provide a counter narrative that can withstand critical scrutiny.
Muslims will always be attracted to the idea of restoring the dignity and leadership of their faith. They can best do this by reading history and pondering over the Quran. When Europe was gripped by centuries of violent religious bigotry, the 17th century English philosopher John Locke wrote enviously about the way in which Christians of all sects and Jews were able to worship freely in the Ottoman realm. The Quran goes beyond tolerance by making recognition of all religions an article of faith in Islam.
The most powerful weapon against extremist ideology is the knowledge that Islamic empires were not exclusively sustained by powerful armies - as was the case of Rome - nor supported by a strong naval fleet, as was the case in the British Empire. The sun set on Islamic power when it handed leadership over to the West in building societies dedicated to pluralism and knowledge - values that Islamic theology champions more highly than a martial jihad.
 
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Irish YJ

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Watching the Hotel Rwanda right now. Glad we did nothing in that situation. It was the damn League of Nations and Belgians' fault.
 

Irish YJ

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Just got off the phone with my 70 year old mother. All she wanted to talk about was the ISIS arrest made less than 10 miles from her house.

My mother, who I bought a Glock 26 for a few years ago, now wants an AR. My mother is not a gun crazy person. Very giving person who donates way too much money and time for someone on a fixed income. I find it funny in some ways that she wants an AR, but also sad that she feels at risk and she needs it.

I do find it funny for those who think this doesn't impact America.
 

DonnieNarco

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It doesn't matter if they announce attacks. They could announce that they've gone to the Moon but that doesn't mean we should bomb it.
 

phork

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Just got off the phone with my 70 year old mother. All she wanted to talk about was the ISIS arrest made less than 10 miles from her house.

My mother, who I bought a Glock 26 for a few years ago, now wants an AR. My mother is not a gun crazy person. Very giving person who donates way too much money and time for someone on a fixed income. I find it funny in some ways that she wants an AR, but also sad that she feels at risk and she needs it.

I do find it funny for those who think this doesn't impact America.

So how does you mother owning a gun stop all this? They aren't breaking in to peoples houses, they aren't going to announce when and where they plan to hit.. Hell most of us could have these clowns living right next door for all anyones knows. And thats the problem. No one knows.
 

DonnieNarco

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Just got off the phone with my 70 year old mother. All she wanted to talk about was the ISIS arrest made less than 10 miles from her house.

My mother, who I bought a Glock 26 for a few years ago, now wants an AR. My mother is not a gun crazy person. Very giving person who donates way too much money and time for someone on a fixed income. I find it funny in some ways that she wants an AR, but also sad that she feels at risk and she needs it.

I do find it funny for those who think this doesn't impact America.

Old people are afraid of terrorism, news at 6.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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It doesn't matter if they announce attacks. They could announce that they've gone to the Moon but that doesn't mean we should bomb it.

What world do you live in? Are we supposed to do nothing, pretend the threat is far away and hope nothing happens? Bullshit.
 

FearTheBeard

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Just got off the phone with my 70 year old mother. All she wanted to talk about was the ISIS arrest made less than 10 miles from her house.

My mother, who I bought a Glock 26 for a few years ago, now wants an AR. My mother is not a gun crazy person. Very giving person who donates way too much money and time for someone on a fixed income. I find it funny in some ways that she wants an AR, but also sad that she feels at risk and she needs it.

I do find it funny for those who think this doesn't impact America.

Maybe your mom should move to another safer country?? Oh wait, America is pretty much the safest country in the world and violence and murder is much lower than it has been in the past. ISIS came to power because of us continually bombing and going to war with middle eastern countries and crippling their governments and people in power. They want us to go to war with them because it makes it easier for them to recruit; when we're killing Islams and trying to take control of their countries it leaves a bunch of them feeling like they have no hope and gives them more incentive to join groups like ISIS to try and take control and fight back and get what they want. All of this fear mongering is ridiculous, people are overestimating the threat ISIS poses inside the US because ISIS uses social media so well and people keep losing their shit everytime they see something on the news. Yes, ISIS is a terrible group but going to war doesnt solve it. Your mother buying a gun is the exact type of thing ISIS wants, they want everyone to freak out and call for war with them. Theyre not a legitimate threat to the US but thats what they want you to believe. People need to calm down and let the mid east sort it out for once otherwise we'll never make progress.
 

FearTheBeard

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What world do you live in? Are we supposed to do nothing, pretend the threat is far away and hope nothing happens? Bullshit.

The threat IS far away. Theyve done nothing in the US...maybe you should have faith in our military and counter terrorism groups. We've had nothing remotely close to 9/11 happen since 9/11 itself. ISIS is getting alot more attention because theyre particulary brutal not because they are some massive threat that just came out of nowhere
 

DonnieNarco

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The threat is literally on the other side of the world. There are probably 500 bigger threats in this country currently. From police black sites to economic issues to bad drivers.
 

IrishinSyria

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Just got off the phone with my 70 year old mother. All she wanted to talk about was the ISIS arrest made less than 10 miles from her house.

My mother, who I bought a Glock 26 for a few years ago, now wants an AR. My mother is not a gun crazy person. Very giving person who donates way too much money and time for someone on a fixed income. I find it funny in some ways that she wants an AR, but also sad that she feels at risk and she needs it.

I do find it funny for those who think this doesn't impact America.

Your mom is terrible at assessing risk* so we should completely alter our foreign policy?



*Not her fault, it's the way we're hardwired.
 

enrico514

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Fear mongering and propaganda against the American people yes.

US being pretty much the safest country in the world... I seriously doubt it! Would love to see any serious listing/study that shows the U.S. in the top 10 in that category... Or eeven the top 25!

Maybe your mom should move to another safer country?? Oh wait, America is pretty much the safest country in the world and violence and murder is much lower than it has been in the past. ISIS came to power because of us continually bombing and going to war with middle eastern countries and crippling their governments and people in power. They want us to go to war with them because it makes it easier for them to recruit; when we're killing Islams and trying to take control of their countries it leaves a bunch of them feeling like they have no hope and gives them more incentive to join groups like ISIS to try and take control and fight back and get what they want. All of this fear mongering is ridiculous, people are overestimating the threat ISIS poses inside the US because ISIS uses social media so well and people keep losing their shit everytime they see something on the news. Yes, ISIS is a terrible group but going to war doesnt solve it. Your mother buying a gun is the exact type of thing ISIS wants, they want everyone to freak out and call for war with them. Theyre not a legitimate threat to the US but thats what they want you to believe. People need to calm down and let the mid east sort it out for once otherwise we'll never make progress.
 

IrishinSyria

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I respectfully disagree... ISIS will be an "excuse" to get rid of the regime directly or indirectly (through Jordan)

Maybe you're right, but I don't see it. The three most powerful players in the country right now are an-Nusra, the regime, and daesh. It's tough to imagine how you could undermine the regime without giving a huge boost to the other two. Jordan's military may be strong for the region, but it's not big enough to take and hold Damascus, never mind the rest of Syria. They've also got their own population to worry about, in addition to a population of refugees that outnumbers the native Jordanians (counting Palestinians as refugees). The secular Syrian opposition is a joke.

If I had to guess what the US govt's best case scenario was for Syria, I'd guess that they want to see an internal coup in the Assad regime that leads to just enough change to allow the secular opposition and, more importantly... the US gov.. to make peace with Syrian regime (kind of similar to Maliki losing power in Iraq.) This would allow us to save face while still funding and supporting military action on 2-5 fronts against daesh (Syrians and Iraqis for sure, pick em of the Kurds, Turks, and Jordanians.) Problem is the US has almost no power to undermine the Assad regime, which leads to kind of a Sophie's choice scenario where you either wait for them to break internally or just bite the bullet and give em support in order to combat the perceived greater evil of Daesh. Our support for the opposition is, in my opinion, a dangerous hail marry. We're trying to put enough pressure on the regime to get it to crack without opening the floodgates.
 

enrico514

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I agree with you on almost everything but we can't forget that Saudi and Qatar (won't even mention Israel) would really like to put a pipeline through Syria. Assad needs to be out for that to happen. Time will tell !!!
 

Irish YJ

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Terrible yes, but I haven't heard a report of beheadings or rape yet. Maybe I need to read more.

So how does you mother owning a gun stop all this? They aren't breaking in to peoples houses, they aren't going to announce when and where they plan to hit.. Hell most of us could have these clowns living right next door for all anyones knows. And thats the problem. No one knows.

Does nothing. Sad that she feels she needs one.

Old people are afraid of terrorism, news at 6.

What are you, 18?

Maybe your mom should move to another safer country?? Oh wait, America is pretty much the safest country in the world and violence and murder is much lower than it has been in the past. ISIS came to power because of us continually bombing and going to war with middle eastern countries and crippling their governments and people in power. They want us to go to war with them because it makes it easier for them to recruit; when we're killing Islams and trying to take control of their countries it leaves a bunch of them feeling like they have no hope and gives them more incentive to join groups like ISIS to try and take control and fight back and get what they want. All of this fear mongering is ridiculous, people are overestimating the threat ISIS poses inside the US because ISIS uses social media so well and people keep losing their shit everytime they see something on the news. Yes, ISIS is a terrible group but going to war doesnt solve it. Your mother buying a gun is the exact type of thing ISIS wants, they want everyone to freak out and call for war with them. Theyre not a legitimate threat to the US but thats what they want you to believe. People need to calm down and let the mid east sort it out for once otherwise we'll never make progress.

Using murder rates per capita, the great US of A is not even in the top 100.

The threat IS far away. Theyve done nothing in the US...maybe you should have faith in our military and counter terrorism groups. We've had nothing remotely close to 9/11 happen since 9/11 itself. ISIS is getting alot more attention because theyre particulary brutal not because they are some massive threat that just came out of nowhere

Yet arrested in Indiana close to where I grew up. To think these are the only ones in the US is pretty naïve.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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It cracks me up that we (The United States) think "this isn't a religious War" because we say its not. Somehow we've convinced ourselves that it's only about religion if both sides say it is.

ISIS is clearly fighting a religious war. But the reason they are where they are is largely political. This must be where the pro-war and the anti-war groups part ways. I get that ISIS is a religious terrorist group, but they have taken root because of political instability. You can't end ISIS without stable governments.

We ARE NOT at war with Islam, BUT:

Islam has a problem within and they aren't addressing it. There are only two reasons why people do or don't do things. 1) They're unwilling.- Or - 2) They're unable. We need to determine if it's 1 or 2 and get this under control any way we can.

This reads like the situation is spiraling out of control. The 2014 progress ISIS made, saturating a politically unstable desert between an oppressive Assad regime and a Shia-led Iraqi government, has been stopped. They are not conquering Damascus or Baghdad. Please get a grip of the situation before you advocate sending Americans to their deaths for nothing.

1) I don't think ISIS calls for another full blown war.

2) I do think it calls for A TON of special forces teams and drones ready to roll every day.

No one, not even the US, can use overwhelming air support and small troop numbers to occupy. You simply cannot occupy an area without tens of thousands of troops, at a minimum. There is no such thing as defeating ISIS with special forces. You'd be whacking a mole over and over and over and over.

I completely agree that we should use our air power to blast them away, but the simple fact is Sunni troops will be needed to occupy the space. No one wants to step up, for a host of reasons. Mainly: hope the US will take care of it, and putting Iraq and Syria back together aids their largest enemy, Iran.

3) They've killed Americans, and they're going to kill more. They've announced future attacks inside the US, I believe at a big mall or something like that.

So if an attack takes place in the US and hundreds or thousands are killed in that kind of attack, we just shrug our shoulders and say, "Aw shucks, this is what we get because we caused ISIS"???

That, my friends, is weak and insane.

A war with ISIS is different. Again, 9/11, 1998 embassies, 1993 WTC bombings, 2000 USS Cole, etc did not need a caliphate to plan and launch attacks.

There will be more attacks. I hope the next time it happens we don't overreact and spend upwards of six trillion dollars accomplishing jack shit.
 
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Grahambo

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ISIS is clearly fighting a religious war. But the reason they are where they are is largely political. This must be where the pro-war and the anti-war groups part ways. I get that ISIS is a religious terrorist group, but they have taken root because of political instability. You can't end ISIS without stable governments.



This reads like the situation is spiraling out of control. The 2014 progress ISIS made, saturating a politically unstable desert between an oppressive Assad regime and a Shia-led Iraqi government, has been stopped. They are not conquering Damascus or Baghdad. Please get a grip of the situation before you advocate sending Americans to their deaths for nothing.



No one, not even the US, can use overwhelming air support and small troop numbers to occupy. You simply cannot occupy an area without tens of thousands of troops, at a minimum. There is no such thing as defeating ISIS with special forces. You'd be whacking a mole over and over and over and over.

I completely agree that we should use our air power to blast them away, but the simple fact is Sunni troops will be needed to occupy the space. No one wants to step up, for a host of reasons. Mainly: hope the US will take care of it, and putting Iraq and Syria back together aids their largest enemy, Iran.



A war with ISIS is different. Again, 9/11, 1998 embassies, 1993 WTC bombings, 2000 USS Cole, etc did not need a caliphate to plan and launch attacks.

There will be more attacks. I hope the next time it happens we don't overreact and spend upwards of six trillion dollars accomplishing jack shit.

You're in the wrong career field my man. haha
 

irishtrain

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Not sure but I do know that I've heard the same thing (prophesy stuff) my entire life, during every uptick in Middle East violence. As far as what to do? Who knows. Seems like our actions caused the instability that allowed ISIS to take over. Maybe we should stop getting involved as we don't seem to be able to "fix" anything. Maybe time to get back to our Conservative roots and become a little more "isolationist". I know it won't happen though.

I've never been one to be defeatist in any way but my beliefs lean toward when the end times come the great 'eagle' from the west will have its feathers plucked. Meaning we will not be a big participant because we will be a bit player not the mega power of today as it was told to me. It could happen fast but I believe its a few years off. One thing I certainly do believe is that the world is on the clock. They still don't want to mess with us but we are certainly getting less significant. My prayers are thankful for what I have and Christ on the Cross. Once again I'm not a defeatist but much of this is pre ordained if you believe the word.
 
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NorthDakota

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As a finance and a Catholic person its tough to deal with.

On one hand, I want the full fury of the US military to show these SOB's no mercy.

On the other, there is a cost to doing business when it comes to our military.

My opinion on most things in life, if you are going to do something, do it right. We didn't handle Iraq right. If you are going to destabilize something as messed up as Iraq, you need to be willing to be there for a VERY long time.
 
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