Is it time for a change?

[ickythump1225]

ASU didn't have anything to do with that? lol

I'm not advocating replacing Golson, but everyone should look at the issues as an entire package. Why are INT's acceptable but fumbles aren't? Neither should be and the number of batted balls are starting to come at an alarming rate. I see a regression or plateau instead of continued progress.

ASU hardly had anything to do with it honestly. EG's fumble was 100% on him. The two batted balls are on the offensive line. In order to combat batted balls the lineman has to be engaged with the defender. Do something, cut block...something. That last interception was completely stupid luck. The interception at the beginning of the second half was a nice play all around by ASU's defense.

I've seriously never seen a team get so lucky in one game. Every single bounce, tipped pass, batted ball, etc. went their way. Every team makes a few mistakes a game but most of the time they don't all get taken back for 6. Yesterday every single mistake we made was punished by 6.

 

[D-BOE34]

This has got to be a fucking joke...

 

[Grahambo]

I disagree, because he is a short QB he needs to do a better job of throwing those passes, if the lane isn't there don't throw it. That is on him. That last INT wasn't on him (Robinson has to catch the ball). Short QB's get passes batted, it is what happens with short QBs but that doesn't mean it isn't his fault. The o-line can only do so much to keep a rushers hands down (especially since ASU seemed to be looking for the quick outside passes and was purposefully sending rushers from there to get in his throwing lanes).

Also there was many plays where a short route came open early and he didn't throw it, as he seemed to be waiting to see if a deeper rout would be open.

But it is a throwing lane...until the DL gets his hands up. Knowing all of this, the OL have to do a better job with their man. Cut blocking, moving their man, etc.

I see your side, I really do. I just happen to respectfully disagree.

 

[pkt77242]

He was the starting QB wasn't he? History shows that we are capable of getting to the NCG with EG as the starting QB despite what you said to the contrary. I'm not going to get into Tommy Rees debate because that's just stupid. The past is the past on that one. Tommy Rees and Everett Golson are completely different QBs.

Just because he was the Starting QB, doesn't mean that he lead us. Did Brad Johnson lead the Buccaneers to their Super Bowl victory? Nope, he was sinking or swimming with the how the defense played. Same thing for Golson in 2012. Now Golson might grow into a QB then can lead a team to the NCG but he wasn't anywhere close to that in 2012, even if he was the starting QB.

 

[pkt77242]

But it is a throwing lane...until the DL gets his hands up. Knowing all of this, the OL have to do a better job with their man. Cut blocking, moving their man, etc.

I see your side, I really do. I just happen to respectfully disagree.

I also get where you are coming from but cut blocking, moving their man, etc doesn't always work and especially when they are blitzing more players then we had blockers. I am not saying that the O-line couldn't have done a better job but to not blame Golson for their throws at all is something that I respectfully disagree with.

 

[Grahambo]

I also get where you are coming from but cut blocking, moving their man, etc doesn't always work and especially when they are blitzing more players then we had blockers. I am not saying that the O-line couldn't have done a better job but to not blame Golson for their throws at all is something that I respectfully disagree with.

We just respectfully disagreed! It can be done! hahaha

 

[IrishinSyria]

But it is a throwing lane...until the DL gets his hands up. Knowing all of this, the OL have to do a better job with their man. Cut blocking, moving their man, etc.

I see your side, I really do. I just happen to respectfully disagree.

I think it's possible to split the difference. The first one was clearly on Lombard, who got absolutely punked by Cherry (ASU 6'5" DE) when he tried to cut him using the world's wimpiest cut-block. The second one was more on Golson, as the DE had already started to disengage when Golson threw it.

ESPN's highlight real is more or less useless but gives detailed looks at both of those plays...Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. Arizona State Sun Devils - Recap - November 08, 2014 - ESPN


ETA: it's pretty clear that on both plays ASU showed outside pressure to bait us into throwing hot routes and had their DE's looking primarily to get their hands up. Great coaching on their part? Bad coaching on our part? Poor recognition by Golson? Great play by their giant DE's? Poor play by our tackles? All of the above?

 

[pkt77242]

This has got to be a fucking joke...

I don't think we should bench him tomorrow but don't you think there comes a time where you have to say enough is enough when it comes to turnovers? Everyone has a different threshold for them but most would agree that there comes a time that you have to bench the QB if they keep turning it over.

If next week he has 3-4 turnovers I may even join the club calling for Zaire. Everyone on here wants to bench Lombard, or Elmer or numerous other players when they struggle, why isn't Golson held to the same standard? Why is 17 turnovers in 5 games acceptable?


Also way to actually add to the conversation. Good job.

 

[kmoose]

Everyone on here wants to bench Lombard, or Elmer or numerous other players when they struggle...

No, everyone doesn't. I get hyperbole for the purposes of making a statement, but let's not get carried away.

why isn't Golson held to the same standard?

I agree. When Tommy was turning the ball over like a hotel maid turns over sheets, Kelly was in his face every time. Why isn't Golson getting the purple-faced treatment on the sidelines?

Why is 17 turnovers in 5 games acceptable?

It's not that it is acceptable. It's that, despite the turnovers, Golson is still our best chance to win ball games.

 

[PJWhitfield]

Golson has experience, and gains nothing significant in the remaining games. Zaire could benefit from the experience, making him a good insurance policy even if he remains No. 2.

 

[TDHeysus]

its simple...you cannot win the TO's, just cant do it(insert Singletary rant here). maybe some of the TO's can be explained away, but I can no longer give golson the benefit of the doubt(game after game, TO after TO). when he is in, the offense turns the ballover; when the offense tried to go up tempo, they turn the ball over; slightest bit of pressure, they turn the ball over. whethers its a pick, a pick6, or fumbling the ball when trying to keep your balance, YOU CANT WIN WITH THE TO's.

 

[Irish#1]

For any QB to be great it takes the whole team. Peyton Manning with a so so O line is worthless.

Being a Colts fan, I can tell you he did some miraculous things with some piss poor offensive lines.

 

[ickythump1225]

Golson has experience, and gains nothing significant in the remaining games. Zaire could benefit from the experience, making him a good insurance policy even if he remains No. 2.

Wrong. Golson is still learning. No QB in college has the game down so cold that they gain nothing from playing. Golson still has a lot to learn and will benefit immensely from starting a whole season and a bowl game.

 

[Irish#1]

And where did you want him to throw it to? Most of the time he was under duress, the WR's weren't ready or were covered.

3 INTs weren't his. If Robinson catches the ball and the DL knock the ball down instead of tipping it up sky high, the game is significantly different.

He's a short QB, that's an issue with short QBs which is why, on short drops, the OL have to do a much better job at keeping the DL arms down.

What game are you talking about? lol

 

[irishandy]

Is it just me or did it look like Cam was calling out the blitz pick-ups sometimes during the second half instead of Golson?

That should be Golson's job, not Cam's.

 

[Booslum31]

To answer the question in the OP, no. We're just going to have to live with Golson I mean he is 17-3 as a starter after all. I know he had some bad moments all of picks were weird. Two batted balls, one pick where he got hit from behind and then that last one where C-Rob bobbled the ball. That was a string of horrid luck. I mean horrible, terrible luck.

Those two batted balls seemed to be when he had successfully located the hot receiver with the blitz. The one to Robinson obviously wasn't his fault. I'm OK with doubling down with Golson. My only concern is that he's not being decisive enough about when to use his legs. Getting sacked way too often.

 

[Redbar]

I don't know how you bench Golson, but his turnovers (some of which were just absurdly bad luck) are 100% of the reason why ND lost this game. And they've been a problem for awhile.

So something has to be done. I don't know what though.

I agree. I don't think there is any way in the world Golson gets benched, nor do I think he should be. BUT, I think it is not a good idea for the starter, the back-up, or for the team in general to KNOW that there is no way someone can lose their job.

 

[ickythump1225]

Those two batted balls seemed to be when he had successfully located the hot receiver with the blitz. The one to Robinson obviously wasn't his fault. I'm OK with doubling down with Golson. My only concern is that he's not being decisive enough about when to use his legs. Getting sacked way too often.

I noticed that too. It is most likely because Golson is not a true runner. That is also why he struggles running the read option. He's more gunslinger Favre than running phenom Vick. I noticed a couple of times where he seemed to float around when he could have just put his head down and at the very least been stopped for no gain but danced his way into a sack. He keeps his eyes down the field looking to make a big play. I think he tries to do too much at times and it leads at times to you saying "wow" and other times where you have other choice words.

 

[Grahambo]

I noticed that too. It is most likely because Golson is not a true runner. That is also why he struggles running the read option. He's more gunslinger Favre than running phenom Vick. I noticed a couple of times where he seemed to float around when he could have just put his head down and at the very least been stopped for no gain but danced his way into a sack. He keeps his eyes down the field looking to make a big play. I think he tries to do too much at times and it leads at times to you saying "wow" and other times where you have other choice words.

You hear analysts talk about an internal clock that a QB must have. EG does have to do a much better job at keeping the clock in mind.

 

[NDhoosier]

Being a Colts fan, I can tell you he did some miraculous things with some piss poor offensive lines.

Exactly. Manning is the best QB for a reason. He makes everyone around him better than they really are. Colts had terrible Olines during most of his tenure there.

As for Golson, he is starting to get to that point where turnovers are costing him and his team... potentially his starting spot. Ill be the first to say that not all of those turnovers are on him. Especially the last one, if anyone holds that one against them, then they need to rethink things, but he really needs to protect the better, especially when he is running.