Indianapolis Colts Football

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

[/B]

You are a funny guy!

Why? Lol. I'd say Luck is a surefire 10, JB about a 6-7, and Hoyer in the 3-4 range. That's fair, imo.

 

[Irish2155]

Why? Lol. I'd say Luck is a surefire 10, JB about a 6-7, and Hoyer in the 3-4 range. That's fair, imo.

Sure fire ten...Andrew Luck?!?! He might be better than Jacoby but not by that much imo. I think it was Sims who had him ranked not too far behind Luck about a year ago.

Luck, dating back to college, has always struck me as a super talented guy but doesn’t have the killer instinct “it” factor. It’s almost like he’s ok with settling for 2nd best. I think in Spanish they call that - “no huevos”.

 

[Irish#1]

Why? Lol. I'd say Luck is a surefire 10, JB about a 6-7, and Hoyer in the 3-4 range. That's fair, imo.

Luck 9 - Luck had a penchant for a couple of WTF was he thinking plays a game.
Brissett 7.5 and rising
Hoyer 3 - Noodle arm and still doesn't read the field like he should after being in the league for as long as he has been.

 

[Irish#1]

In reference to drafting Tua. Listening to Clay Travis, he had a doctor that used to be the team doc for the Chargers. In his opinion, the surgery itself wasn't the real concern. It will be whether blood flow returns to that bone and possible arthritis setting in. This was the same injury that ended Bo Jackson's career. Blood flow never returned.

 

[Irish YJ]

Luck 9 - Luck had a penchant for a couple of WTF was he thinking plays a game.
Brissett 7.5 and rising
Hoyer 3 - Noodle arm and still doesn't read the field like he should after being in the league for as long as he has been.

IMHO
Manning 10 (elite)
Luck 8 (good/great)
Brissett currently a 5 (average) with a 7 ceiling
Hoyer - 4 (below average - INT machine his entire career)

In reference to drafting Tua. Listening to Clay Travis, he had a doctor that used to be the team doc for the Chargers. In his opinion, the surgery itself wasn't the real concern. It will be whether blood flow returns to that bone and possible arthritis setting in. This was the same injury that ended Bo Jackson's career. Blood flow never returned.

I thought they said Tua's situation was different, and would not end up like Bo's.

 

[Irish#1]

I thought they said Tua's situation was different, and would not end up like Bo's.

I'm not sure what the difference between the two is, but he did say getting blood back to that bone area is critical and while the surgery (procedure) itself was successful, it will take a little while to know if the bone is getting proper blood flow.

 

[Legacy]

I'm not sure what the difference between the two is, but he did say getting blood back to that bone area is critical and while the surgery (procedure) itself was successful, it will take a little while to know if the bone is getting proper blood flow.

I posted some info on AVN in the Alabama thread.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'm not sure what the difference between the two is, but he did say getting blood back to that bone area is critical and while the surgery (procedure) itself was successful, it will take a little while to know if the bone is getting proper blood flow.

I think a big difference was Bo never had surgery on it, at least not right away... which is why blood flow stopped. Being aware of the injury, and tending to it should be enough for this to not be a concern for Tua. This all comes from what I have read over the years on Bo and it makes this whole dialogue kind of stink of 'make a story' from some in the media.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Sure fire ten...Andrew Luck?!?! He might be better than Jacoby but not by that much imo. I think it was Sims who had him ranked not too far behind Luck about a year ago.

Luck, dating back to college, has always struck me as a super talented guy but doesn’t have the killer instinct “it” factor. It’s almost like he’s ok with settling for 2nd best. I think in Spanish they call that - “no huevos”.

That's funny. You put Jacoby Brissett on those teams that Luck had to completely carry in the Grigson era, he's not getting that team above .500, more less taking them to the AFCCG. Luck was Top 5 in the NFL, JB isn't Top 15. Hoyer is closer to JB than JB is to Luck imo.

The key difference is Ballard vs Grigson. Luck never had a team behind him, Grigson was trash and is really the key reason Luck retired, he refused to draft a line to protect him and he got battered and broke down before he turned 30. The team that Ballard has built (really for Luck) for JB is worlds better, the oline is elite, the defense is deep, they can run the ball. This team is winning with Brissett, not because of him. Luck's teams won because of him, and had NO chance without him. The team that Brissett made look like a clown show in 17...Luck would have had in contention, there's no comparing those 2 guys.

Jacoby Brissett is a 2 year stop-gap til Ballard can get a guy in here that can win the Colts a SB. Ballard isn't gonna settle for that mediocrity, here's here for SB rings. We can revisit this after the draft, after they've taken their franchise guy. If not, I'll smash a plate of crow, wouldn't be the first time lol.

 

[NDdomer2]

Sure fire ten...Andrew Luck?!?! He might be better than Jacoby but not by that much imo. I think it was Sims who had him ranked not too far behind Luck about a year ago.

Luck, dating back to college, has always struck me as a super talented guy but doesn’t have the killer instinct “it” factor. It’s almost like he’s ok with settling for 2nd best. I think in Spanish they call that - “no huevos”.

no eggs?

i think the term you are looking for is cojones

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Jacoby Brissett per game averages (First 4 games):
228 YPG, 2.5 TD/0.5 INT

Jacoby Brissett per game averages (Last 5 games):
176 YPG. 1 TD/0.4 INT

Nothing about that is elite. That's pedestrian, at best. They need a guy that's gonna win games, not manage them. Ballard is fully aware of this having been a part of the KC Chiefs move from a pretty good QB in Alex Smith, to an elite one in Patrick Mahomes. Can't let good be the enemy of great.

 

[Legacy]

I think a big difference was Bo never had surgery on it, at least not right away... which is why blood flow stopped. Being aware of the injury, and tending to it should be enough for this to not be a concern for Tua. This all comes from what I have read over the years on Bo and it makes this whole dialogue kind of stink of 'make a story' from some in the media.

I'll repost, A Camp.

Could Modern Medicine Have Saved Bo Jackson's Career?

 

[Irish2155]

Well shit. GF is now heading to Cincy in the morning, and the Bday festivities are this evening. Saturday night worked out so well too with ND playing at 2:30.

Have fun watching the game fellas. I should be able to catch some of the second half.

 

[Irish#1]

Well shit. GF is now heading to Cincy in the morning, and the Bday festivities are this evening. Saturday night worked out so well too with ND playing at 2:30.

Have fun watching the game fellas. I should be able to catch some of the second half.

Poor planning. Should have taken the day off, took her to a spa session, gave her a shiny trinket, wrapped it up with an early dinner and your back in time for the game. You'd even have time for a little dessert if you know what I mean.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'll repost, A Camp.

Could Modern Medicine Have Saved Bo Jackson's Career?

Seems to back up what I'm saying, yes?? He didn't get immediate attention and by time the severity was discovered it was too late. The only thing that really touches on it directly is the last paragraph, "His treatment was almost certainly thorough and prompt..." which flies directly in the face of Bo's own words. I've seen him interviewed and read numerous reports over the years where he states he didn't get any real treatment for some time after the injury and the extent of everything wasn't revealed for at least a few weeks after, by then it was too late.

 

[Irish#1]

I'll repost, A Camp.

Could Modern Medicine Have Saved Bo Jackson's Career?

Thanks for posting.

I remember years ago Steve Stepanovich of the Pacers had to give up bball because he was suffering from lack of blood getting to one of his legs.

 

[Irish2155]

Poor planning. Should have taken the day off, took her to a spa session, gave her a shiny trinket, wrapped it up with an early dinner and your back in time for the game. You'd even have time for a little dessert if you know what I mean.

Poor planning on her end, which is now fucking with my watch party plans. I would have planned better if I knew she was going to change her damn travel schedule.

It is her bday however, so I won't be too hard on her. And you are correct, the desert menu will see plenty of action this evening.

 

[Irish2155]

no eggs?

i think the term you are looking for is cojones

LOL...yeah, "no cojones"...you got it.

No eggs...geesh. I'm overdue a Caribbean vaca.

 

[Irish2155]

That's funny. You put Jacoby Brissett on those teams that Luck had to completely carry in the Grigson era, he's not getting that team above .500, more less taking them to the AFCCG. Luck was Top 5 in the NFL, JB isn't Top 15. Hoyer is closer to JB than JB is to Luck imo.

The key difference is Ballard vs Grigson. Luck never had a team behind him, Grigson was trash and is really the key reason Luck retired, he refused to draft a line to protect him and he got battered and broke down before he turned 30. The team that Ballard has built (really for Luck) for JB is worlds better, the oline is elite, the defense is deep, they can run the ball. This team is winning with Brissett, not because of him. Luck's teams won because of him, and had NO chance without him. The team that Brissett made look like a clown show in 17...Luck would have had in contention, there's no comparing those 2 guys.

Jacoby Brissett is a 2 year stop-gap til Ballard can get a guy in here that can win the Colts a SB. Ballard isn't gonna settle for that mediocrity, here's here for SB rings. We can revisit this after the draft, after they've taken their franchise guy. If not, I'll smash a plate of crow, wouldn't be the first time lol.

Grigson was absolutely pathetic...no question about that. Being a key reason Luck retired, you hear that a lot especially around my way but I'm not necessarily buying it...that's the Captain Obvious answer. Maybe a contributing factor but personally I don't even think Luck ever liked playing football in the first place. Add in the pressure to live up to everyone's lofty expectations along with having no passion for the game is what ultimately did him in IMO. It's more between the ears than anything I think.

Regarding Brissett, I think we can all agree he isn't as talented as Luck. Leadership however was never Luck's strong suit...no eggs, right? Brissett from my perception seems to have the team's respect as a leader much more than Luck ever did. This is where I believe Brissett closes the gap in your 1 to 10 scale and I don't think your considering this very important factor. Regardless, at the end of the day it's about Super Bowl(s), right??...at least to everyone except maybe Andrew Luck as I think he could care less, is that who you want leading your team?

Drafting a QB...sure, if we think he's the one who will lead us to the next SB. But that will be hard to come by from where the Colts are selecting. You are correct though, if Ballard sees that opportunity, he will jump on it. In the meantime, Jacoby is winning football games.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Grigson was absolutely pathetic...no question about that. Being a key reason Luck retired, you hear that a lot especially around my way but I'm not necessarily buying it...that's the Captain Obvious answer. Maybe a contributing factor but personally I don't even think Luck ever liked playing football in the first place. Add in the pressure to live up to everyone's lofty expectations along with having no passion for the game is what ultimately did him in IMO. It's more between the ears than anything I think.

Regarding Brissett, I think we can all agree he isn't as talented as Luck. Leadership however was never Luck's strong suit...no eggs, right? Brissett from my perception seems to have the team's respect as a leader much more than Luck ever did. This is where I believe Brissett closes the gap in your 1 to 10 scale and I don't think your considering this very important factor. Regardless, at the end of the day it's about Super Bowl(s), right??...at least to everyone except maybe Andrew Luck as I think he could care less, is that who you want leading your team?

Drafting a QB...sure, if we think he's the one who will lead us to the next SB. But that will be hard to come by from where the Colts are selecting. You are correct though, if Ballard sees that opportunity, he will jump on it. In the meantime, Jacoby is winning football games.

Just saw a bunch of advanced analytics on another All-Colts forum I'm on, and man he really hasn't been good this year, he just hasn't been bad. I think next year, when they get a better player behind center, it will become more apparent to people how average JB was.

I keep hoping that he takes the next step forward, but idk that Reich has fully "taken the training wheels off", and it's also really hard to assess with all of the WR injuries, although this is basically the same supporting cast that Luck won "Comeback Player of the Year" with last season. He didn't have Funchess, Campbell, or Jack Doyle, also the oline wasn't even healthy til like Week 8 if I remember correctly. The full array of WRs should be back for the Titans game, so Ballard/Reich will have a fairly large sample size to grade whether they need to go get a guy, or draft pieces to help Jacoby win. I'm indifferent man, much like ND football, it isn't personal, I just wanna win.

 

[Legacy]

Seems to back up what I'm saying, yes?? He didn't get immediate attention and by time the severity was discovered it was too late. The only thing that really touches on it directly is the last paragraph, "His treatment was almost certainly thorough and prompt..." which flies directly in the face of Bo's own words. I've seen him interviewed and read numerous reports over the years where he states he didn't get any real treatment for some time after the injury and the extent of everything wasn't revealed for at least a few weeks after, by then it was too late.

The only treatment for a full hip dislocation to prevent AVN is swift reduction, which Tua had in the stadium. That lowers his chances of decreased blood supply to the bone and necrosis.

From the article we read:

Avascular necrosis is rare, but it's one of the most severe complications in hip injuries. It shows up in 3-15 percent of hip dislocations, and is less common in subluxations.4 Decreased blood supply—as minor as a 20 percent temporary decrease—can cause the death of cells within the femur.3 These dead regions can be surgically repaired, but the healing process disrupts the stability of the bone, predisposing the femur to fracture. With a new break, disruption of blood flow occurs again, causing more cell death. It's a vicious cycle. This process of cell death, resorption, revascularizing, weakening, fracture, and cell death repeats and progressively weakens the bone until collapse of the joint occurs, requiring full hip replacement.4

Once this process gets rolling, prognosis is poor and it's generally a matter of when the hip will be replaced, not if. AVN is difficult to diagnose early. When Bo's injury occurred in 1991, the possible complications were known, and methods of diagnosing established, but the process was still unrefined.

Tua's risk is probably low because of the immediate hip reduction done in the stadium.

From the Al.com article in the Alabama thread:

"What can happen with the dislocation is that blood vessels will either tear or they'll be placed on stretch for so long that the bone itself will lose its blood supply and that will cause death of the bone," Banffy said. "If you get it reduced right away, the idea is that will minimize the risk. But this is still something that you have to watch and it might not even present itself for a couple of months, similar to the way it did with Bo Jackson.

Six months out with no necrosis, Tua is clear of that complication. He may develop arthritis down the road. He could slide down the draft if teams are reluctant to take a chance on him or invest the $30 mill or so that a high draft pick gets, and he can sit for a year learning their system and refine his technique.

 

[Irish#1]

Regarding Brissett, I think we can all agree he isn't as talented as Luck. Leadership however was never Luck's strong suit...no eggs, right? Brissett from my perception seems to have the team's respect as a leader much more than Luck ever did. This is where I believe Brissett closes the gap in your 1 to 10 scale and I don't think your considering this very important factor. Regardless, at the end of the day it's about Super Bowl(s), right??...at least to everyone except maybe Andrew Luck as I think he could care less, is that who you want leading your team?

Drafting a QB...sure, if we think he's the one who will lead us to the next SB. But that will be hard to come by from where the Colts are selecting. You are correct though, if Ballard sees that opportunity, he will jump on it. In the meantime, Jacoby is winning football games.

Heard Stayzniak on the radio a couple of weeks ago. He said there were quite a few players who were indifferent to Luck leaving and a number of them that were happy to see him go. They obviously saw he wasn't fully invested. You are correct about Brissett. Stayzniak said he has the buy in of the entire team and is respected by everyone.

Just saw a bunch of advanced analytics on another All-Colts forum I'm on, and man he really hasn't been good this year, he just hasn't been bad. I think next year, when they get a better player behind center, it will become more apparent to people how average JB was.

I keep hoping that he takes the next step forward, but idk that Reich has fully "taken the training wheels off", and it's also really hard to assess with all of the WR injuries, although this is basically the same supporting cast that Luck won "Comeback Player of the Year" with last season. He didn't have Funchess, Campbell, or Jack Doyle, also the oline wasn't even healthy til like Week 8 if I remember correctly. The full array of WRs should be back for the Titans game, so Ballard/Reich will have a fairly large sample size to grade whether they need to go get a guy, or draft pieces to help Jacoby win. I'm indifferent man, much like ND football, it isn't personal, I just wanna win.

TBH, JB hasn't had Funchess and Campbell has pretty much been a no show except for one game. With a banged up secondary, I look for the Colts to go deep against the Texans, but going deep isn't the measure of a great QB.

 

[Irish#1]

The only treatment for a full hip dislocation to prevent AVN is swift reduction, which Tua had in the stadium. That lowers his chances of decreased blood supply to the bone and necrosis.

From the article we read:


Tua's risk is probably low because of the immediate hip reduction done in the stadium.

From the Al.com article in the Alabama thread:



Six months out with no necrosis, Tua is clear of that complication. He may develop arthritis down the road. He could slide down the draft if teams are reluctant to take a chance on him or invest the $30 mill or so that a high draft pick gets, and he can sit for a year learning their system and refine his technique.

He won't be ready by the time the combine comes around and probably won't have healed enough to participate in Bama's pro day. It will very much be like Jaylon when it comes to the draft.

 

[Irish2155]

He won't be ready by the time the combine comes around and probably won't have healed enough to participate in Bama's pro day. It will very much be like Jaylon when it comes to the draft.

Big IF but if Tua slides that far in the draft I'd be all for the Colts rolling those dice.

 

[Irish#1]

Big IF but if Tua slides that far in the draft I'd be all for the Colts rolling those dice.

I would as well. I think Ballard has some extra picks and he’s shown he can spot talent.

 

[Legacy]

Tua could stay at Alabama another year if it looks like his stock has fallen or he needs the time to rehab and show he is back.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I would as well. I think Ballard has some extra picks and he’s shown he can spot talent.

We hold the Redskins 2nd from moving back last year out of the 26th pick to the 34th. So, they have their 1st, the Skins 2nd, then their 2nd, so most likely 3 picks in the first 50. I'd be all for them grabbing Tua with any of those picks, he can sit behind JB next year, it's the perfect setup for him.

 

[Irish#1]

Well, I will say Brissett stunk up the place last night. No deep passes until we have 4th and 4 with the game on the line? That call was on Reich, but Brissett had some bad passes on a lot of short throws. How do you let Hopkins go wide open?

Overall the game plan was pretty good and the game was winnable, but there were about 3 or 4 plays that were big WTF's?

 

[BeauBenken]

Still not on Brissett. Our best WR couldn't catch two critical balls. Our other wideouts are nonexistent.

Give us Will Fuller and DeAndre Hopkins and that game is a bloodbath.

Our best receiving threat are our tight ends. And personally I think it's Jack Doyle who a couple years ago would have like ten reception games and now spends half our possessions on the sideline.

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

 

[Irish2155]

I caught a good majority of the second half, Jacoby didn't look very good. He has been on the shelf a couple of weeks, so there is that benefit of the doubt if someone is digging deep for excuses and TY certainly didn't help with drops.

Will Fuller is a beast. I've said it before, perennial Pro Bowler if he could just stay on the field.

Good news for those interested in moral victories - Vinny was perfect on kicks. Although the one PAT I saw was a very ugly knuckler.