Independence

[Fbolt]

Seems to be the mantra of the day; adapt to the new world order. There is something to be said for forging your own path. Does it come with challenges? Sure-but also rewards.

 

[NDpendent]

Thats 2021. We're not top 10 and won't be anytime soon without change.

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football-rankings/college-football-sports-rankings-by-revenue-2022-ohio-state-texas

College athletics' 25 powerhouses who produced the most revenue for 2022

Two of the nation's top football programs are notable revenue-producers.

247sports.com

Even using the revenue in your link we'd be ~$40 million behind the 10th most revenue generating program last year. We're getting dusted, relative to the top programs.

Come on Ding, this is total athletic revenue from all sports.

And you have to be shitting me if you don't think ND football is making more then they were in 2021

 

[thekid33]

Seems to be the mantra of the day; adapt to the new world order. There is something to be said for forging your own path.

​

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.​

 

[Fbolt]

Keep chasing the easy cash. Easy path. Say it loud and bold. Be a follower.

This discussion does not even resonate a bit with me. Frustrates me this topic gathers any momentum.

 

[stlnd01]

Seems to be the mantra of the day; adapt to the new world order. There is something to be said for forging your own path. Does it come with challenges? Sure-but also rewards.

What are the rewards?

 

[KPENN]

Come on Ding, this is total athletic revenue from all sports.

And you have to be shitting me if you don't think ND football is making more then they were in 2021

What sport do you think is responsible for a very large portion of the athletic revenue?

 

[DillonHall]

Tickets on the resale market for non-premier games are like ~$60-80 for an event that happens 6 times a year is pretty good, especially for a product that's been 6th in overall wins the past 10 years (2013-2022).

Not many premier sporting events you can go to for that price. Unless you're advocating for ND to restrict the resale market, reducing the ticket price just transfers the profit to resalers rather than to the university. I'd rather ND get the money than Joe TicketGuy.

I agree those prices aren't bad. I didn't know they were that cheap, I've only been to night games since 2013

But there are some sources out there which suggest ND is on the high end (#3 on this list):

College football tickets: 10 most expensive gameday experiences

 

[DillonHall]

Seems to be the mantra of the day; adapt to the new world order. There is something to be said for forging your own path. Does it come with challenges? Sure-but also rewards.

There's a difference between forging your own path and refusing to adapt

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Don’t forget football and basketball cover the other sports as well, which operate at a deficit. I assume that brings the athletic department closer to breaking even, hence the need to raise funds.

I forget the exact details, but remember seeing a list and think it was LSU baseball being the only non-football/men’s basketball program that turned a profit the year it was published.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[irishff1014]

Imo it would cost us fans games watched. They are not playing ND over Michigan vs Ohio state, penn state vs Michigan or Ohio state, or Michigan, Ohio state, penn state against USC.

And all that money at Texas A&M is working real well isn’t it?

 

[BilboBaggins]

100% in favor of joining the Big Ten.

Unfortunately if they go to 20, the pods don't work so well.

USC/UCLA/Nebraska/*Notre Dame*/*Stanford*

Oregon/Washington/Minnesota/Wisconsin/Iowa

Michigan/Michigan State/Ohio State/Indiana/Purdue

Illinois/Northwestern/Penn State/Rutgers/Maryland

Pretty lopsided pods. Adding Rutgers was so dumb in retrospect.

But just join the Big Ten and get it over with.

 

[Giddyup]

Lol. Get it over with! What are we

 

[GATTACA!]

Maybe I’m just the one confused. So clearly in this part of the discussion we’re (for the moment) considering the situation where a loss in a conference championship doesn’t eliminate ND from the playoffs. And it seems we’ve found common ground that with conference schedules being easier, the situation ND would find themselves in, often enough, would be a shot at a conference championship where a loss wouldn’t necessarily wipe them from playoffs.

Scenario A: ND wins the conference championship. Maybe gets the bye, maybe doesn’t
Scenario B: ND doesn’t win the conference championship -> now ND has to go 3-0 in the playoffs.
Scenario C: ND remained independent -> no conference championship, ND has to go 3-0 in the playoffs.

You’d rather just sign up for scenario C, than try for Scenario A and, at worst again, end up in Scenario B (which is the same as Scenario C)

Conference schedules being easier is only relative to what ND feels like scheduling for themselves. There's nothing stopping us from softening our schedule. With the playoffs expanding to 12 teams the emphasis on SoS will be reduced further that it already was.

Yes I would sign up for C because A also carries the possibility of losing and being eliminated anyways. A really needs to be split into:

Win the CCG and get a bye
Win the CCG and don't get a bye
Lose the CCG and play round 1
Lose the CCG and be eliminated

I just don't see the possibility of a bye being worth more than a winnable playoff game. Even with the bye you've played the same amount of games you would have otherwise. First round playoff games will be easier than a conference championship game. And they can be at home. Give me a playoff game in ND stadium vs Tulane over a CCG vs OSU in Indy.

 

[T-Boone]

I reckon ND could join the big 10 for a while then pull out the whole thing being in order to insult them.

 

[NDRock]

Maybe I’m just the one confused. So clearly in this part of the discussion we’re (for the moment) considering the situation where a loss in a conference championship doesn’t eliminate ND from the playoffs. And it seems we’ve found common ground that with conference schedules being easier, the situation ND would find themselves in, often enough, would be a shot at a conference championship where a loss wouldn’t necessarily wipe them from playoffs.

Scenario A: ND wins the conference championship. Maybe gets the bye, maybe doesn’t
Scenario B: ND doesn’t win the conference championship -> now ND has to go 3-0 in the playoffs.
Scenario C: ND remained independent -> no conference championship, ND has to go 3-0 in the playoffs.

You’d rather just sign up for scenario C, than try for Scenario A and, at worst again, end up in Scenario B (which is the same as Scenario C)

The one factor that is not considered, is a 16th game. In your scenarios where we play a conference championship game and don’t get a bye, we will play an extra game. As an Independent, we will only play 15 games max.

Essentially, if you look at CCGs as the 1st round of the playoffs, then ND will always get a bye (and never play a 16th game)

Overall, I don’t think it’s a huge deal as there are as many scenarios where playing a CCG is an advantage as there are scenarios where it’s a disadvantage.

 

[Lberry]

So in quickly catching up - the strongest objective reason to stay independent is "it's tradition"?

 

[Armyirish47]

So in quickly catching up - the strongest objective reason to stay independent is "it's tradition"?

Shocking that the person who deputized themselves on this topic comes to this conclusion. Keep grinding Barney Fife.

 

[Lberry]

Shocking that the person who deputized themselves on this topic comes to this conclusion. Keep grinding Barney Fife.

Can you add a single, objective reason?

 

[Giddyup]

We already have dude. U need to read more post less

 

[Lberry]

We already have dude. U need to read more post less

"It's tradition" is not a reason. Shitting outside was tradition until indoor plumbing.

The revenue, the scheduling, the BYEs, the reffing, the playoff structure are all real reasons why it's a disadvantage.

Name a single reason independence favors Notre Dame football. There hasn't been a reason listed yet.

 

[thekid33]

What legitimate ND traditions/experiences would be altered by no longer being an Independent? From my POV, none that actually matter. Maybe I am not thinking of something, so I'll hang up and listen if someone has a good answer.

 

[Lberry]

What legitimate ND traditions/experiences would be altered by no longer being an Independent? From my POV, none that actually matter. Maybe I am not thinking of something, so I'll hang up and listen if someone has a good answer.

The silence is the answer.

 

[BilboBaggins]

What legitimate ND traditions/experiences would be altered by no longer being an Independent? From my POV, none that actually matter. Maybe I am not thinking of something, so I'll hang up and listen if someone has a good answer.

You don't understand, it's the brand. /s

Until the 1990s, there were plenty of independent teams. The Big East really ended that era. But really it's only been about 30 years with Notre Dame being the only elite independent program, and I'd argue for the last 5-10 it has served no purpose at all. So it had a 20 year run of being both unique and worth it.

Personally I wish Congress would get involved and separate football from Title IX and make it its own separate league and the Olympic sports can go back to regional conferences. But Congress doesn't do a whole lot, so that is a pipedream.

 

[Lberry]

You don't understand, it's the brand. /s

Until the 1990s, there were plenty of independent teams. The Big East really ended that era. But really it's only been about 30 years with Notre Dame being the only elite independent program, and I'd argue for the last 5-10 it has served no purpose at all. So it had a 20 year run of being both unique and worth it.

Personally I wish Congress would get involved and separate football from Title IX and make it its own separate league and the Olympic sports can go back to regional conferences. But Congress doesn't do a whole lot, so that is a pipedream.

With all due respect, this doesn't identify a single benefit of Independence for ND football in 2023 and beyond. It's another "it's tradition".

Edit, didn't realize /S meant "sarcasm". My bad.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I think it's almost entirely revolved around scheduling. Being able to hang on to those rivalries AND have the flexibility to schedule a variety of "news worthy" opponents such as pOSU or Texas or Georgia or Texas A&M throughout the years was deemed to have significant value to Notre Dame. Join a conference and it seems like one of those will have to be sacrificed.

I have no doubt that we will eventually move to a conference at some point. That some point could be very soon. The advantages of being independent seem to have less strength as time passes and the value of joining a conference seems to be increasing. Hopefully it's the Big Ten when it does happen.

 

[NDpendent]

Do you know what is funny to be is all my non ND friends ( mostly OSU and UM) bitch and complain about how messed up all these super conferences are and how it's all just a big money grab are the same friends who ask me when is ND going to get off their high horse and join a conference.

 

[Lberry]

I think it's almost entirely revolved around scheduling. Being able to hang on to those rivalries AND have the flexibility to schedule a variety of "news worthy" opponents such as pOSU or Texas or Georgia or Texas A&M throughout the years was deemed to have significant value to Notre Dame. Join a conference and it seems like one of those will have to be sacrificed.

I have no doubt that we will eventually move to a conference at some point. That some point could be very soon. The advantages of being independent seem to have less strength as time passes and the value of joining a conference seems to be increasing. Hopefully it's the Big Ten when it does happen.

Doesn't USC joining Big 10 where we would play them annually make that a moot point? We can always play Navy as a OOC game. It already is for Navy and they show up willingly for their punishment every year..

Even if we have to sacrifice a game, as long as it's not USC, it's not close to balancing the rest of the disadvantages.

Stanford specifically - We are keeping Stanford relevant by playing them in a game that does nothing for us. We need to nail it with thr academic athletes, and letting Stanford die in the abyss helps us.

 

[thekid33]

Doesn't USC joining Big 10 where we would play them annually make that a moot point? We can always play Navy as a OOC game. It already is for Navy and they show up willingly for their punishment every year..

Even if we have to sacrifice a game, as long as it's not USC, it's not close to balancing the rest of the disadvantages.

Stanford specifically - We are keeping Stanford relevant by playing them in a game that does nothing for us. We need to nail it with thr academic athletes, and letting Stanford die in the abyss helps us.

The only thing that can be said that is positive about playing Stanford is the current arrangement where we have at least one game on the west coast season because we play them away the years we play Southern Cal at home.

But, with the west coast additions to the Big 10, we'd almost certainly have one west coast game a season.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Well it would certainly be easier to send assistants to steal play calls if we were in a more regional conference.

 

[GATTACA!]

Stanford specifically - We are keeping Stanford relevant by playing them in a game that does nothing for us. We need to nail it with thr academic athletes, and letting Stanford die in the abyss helps us.

West coast exposure. Lets the staff get in front of Cali kids every year in combination with USC. The school likes being associated with another highly regarded academic institution. And they suck, so it's a rivalry game where we SHOULD be guaranteed a win almost every year.

Why would we want out of that game?