I was PISSED huh? I wish I had a cool meme. Prolly mad cause I knew I couldn't spend all day kicking your ass on this...hehehe...I kid.
Here ya go, my stream of concious thoughts on the matter...
Yes I've read all of that shit.....most before I shot bolts out of my neck.
There are currently`8 million working illegals. They are arranged in ~3M households caring for 4.5M kids under 18. They average 35K/year in income/household. Multiple sources claim Illegal households pay 10K into various and assundry "taxes" etc . Leaves 25 K to live on. For a single adult to simply maintain themselves, the average minimum cost of living is ~28 K. For two parents and a child it is ~56K. For single parent one kid families lets shoot for the middle ~ 42K, since an estimate wasn't published that I recall...Not hard to see the going in position is net negative. Especially since approx. half the households have at least one kid and a single adult (47%), thus requiring significant aid.
So using these numbers
~1.25M illegal Households were short 56K-25K = 26K to meet average cost of living. They didn't get that much.
~1.25M illegal Households were short 40K-25K = 15K to meet average cost of living. They didn't get that much.
The point I'm making is, we have people who out of the gate are not ok financially, and lack education to get "ok"....the money they make is probably great money wherever they came from...HINT.
SO based on things I've read, consensus says those households got assistance largely due to their children, who are indeed mostly citizens but whose welfare cost is directly caused by one or more of their parents being here illegally. Estimates range that welfare type payments total 10B in 2004 dollars, which is likely more like 17B in 2016 dollars after credit is given for taxes paid.
Speaking of taxes... much of the tax revenues are not federal or payroll taxes, just cash paid through sales taxes, property taxes and city and state fees. The only way they can pay federal taxes is to STEAL, or FAKE an SSN or get an ITIN, only about 700K out of the 1.6M Illegal filers used ITIN...Hmmm, how'd the rest submit....we'll hit that later.
Next, many arguments presume you can't get the supposed economic benefit of illegals' labor without them staying here...many are concentrated in jobs that have a seasonal component...for instance many (not all) grounds keeping gigs are seasonal, most Fishing, farming, forestry, construction gigs are seasonal. A conservative estimate would be 20-30 could be living elsewhere and coming here to work seasonally. You could avoid some significant cost, and get the "benefits" in a pretty good chunk of these.
Other Numbers:
Consider the ~100K illegals incarcerated that have an annual cost of 3B. Thats not considering costs related to initial prosecution and defense, courts, special services for interpreters etc. If we assume these are mostly drug related cases, it was estimated at 70K per case in 1991, which in today's value is 120K per case. So Illegals currently incarcerated have cost us 12B 2016 dollars on the way in the door so to speak, and as we turn them over or add to the numbers held, there is ongoing cost there. I'll ignore it here, but it is there, and it is significant.
There is ~20B in Social security identity fraud perpetrated on the IRS alone...who holds most of the fraudulent SSNs, and are in fact ENCOURAGED by the IRS to make and Steal SSNs? Even if you simply cap illegals participation in this activity at their % of the workforce...ie they are no more or less likely to engage in fraud (beyond making a SSN) than any other workers, they get 5% of the fraud number.)...there is another 1B. I'd add on the costs of investigation and prosecution, but The IRS doesn't really do much...neither does Ice. Although because this issue indeed exists, we have a special government agency within ICE for this very problem...50M.
Further, the cost to private citizens is hard to calculate but it is there. Based upon the policies of the IRS and LAWS which restrict telling you when your SSN is being used to deliver money to the IRS from someone other than you. Yup, your SSN is compromised, but uncle sugar is getting paid, so screw you selfish natavist. You'd have to admit, this is a pretty good indication your SSN is compromised, and folks can't tell you, and so you can't do anything until someone uses it to access your credit...so if you aren't paying a credit monitoring service with an insurance component, thats all on you. Whats that cost? Well Credit monitoring is a 5 Billion dollar industry...how much you want to attribute to Illegals? How much of the private losses (50B) experienced by people do you want to attribute to illegals. If we just use their population 3%, thats 150M and 1.5B respectively.
What about actual medicare, medicaid, and SS payment fraud...not just tax returns...But instances where our government does not have the resources to run down benefit payment fraud? Well Improper payments in 2015 totaled 137B. Again, what percentage do you want to hang on illegals...they are no more or less likely to commit fraud or simply allow payments to come to them not owed. I think its fair to use 3%...so, there is another 4B....I already got a part of this in IRS discussion, so 4-1 =3. So 3B more.
12B in prosecution costs (one time)
Welfare Cost (17B)
Prison Cost (3B)
Special ICE division for SSN fraud (50M)
Cost of ID fraud insurance (150M)
Cost of Private loss due to ID theft (1.5B)
Cost of IRS Fraud and other Improper payments (4B)
So far thats about 25.7B.
Education...
The 8 Million Illegals currently working make ~36K per household, in ~3M families...and that pay rarely increases due to their low education level. There are ~4.5M kids < 18 y/o have at least one undocumented parent . So, Illegals make up 3% of the population BUT their kids make up 6% of the K-12 population. Lets say each family does indeed contribute 10K taxes etc....thats break even for the education costs of one kid. However you slice it, that leaves 1.5M heads, and 10K/head to educate. So, in reality we are ~15B light in education funds.
This kid discussion should cause re-iteration of an important point...Yea anchor babies are citizens in the benefits sense, but they are a direct result, in a cost sense, of Illegal immigration, and benefits paid them, and the services they consume go on the ledger as a cost of illegal immigration in this discussion.
Estimates regarding unpaid services in the medical community jump around, we know it is likely a function of what percentage of the poor population illegals comprise. Estimate 2B.
We are at ~42.7B in costs, most of which are taxpayer costs. I'm sure there are things I didn't think of...just pitching off of memory mostly.
And BTW, I didn't even attribute any cost associated with displacement of American workers, whom, for every one who would take a job currently performed by an illegal...if said illegal went home, we'd save because we'd only have to prop one of them up. I think matching folks to jobs is a worthwhile endeavor where investment would show some benefit to the tax payer. I want the guy I have to pay for to be working.
Now I'm to believe that 40B in costs is just fine because the money these folks spend in the marketplace is worth the taxpayer "investment". Really...because it sounds alot like subsidies for business, like farms...don't I already subsidize farms directly...now through keeping them in cheap labor? Seems like this is kinda like ... you tax payers (ya know people who pay more than they take) keep the cheap labor afloat here, while the cheap laborers spend what little they have in the market place...sound about right?
Its some part QEx fueled stock market investment and some part farm subsidy. If chambers of commerce or companies who employ and depend on illegals want to cover the cost of their presence...I'm good with it...otherwise...not so good with it.
As I've said before, you can't punt 11 Million people. Most have kids...since the kids can stay, who'd pay for them if mom and dad got ejected. But we can stop illegal immigration from continuing. Yes it has slowed, but lets get it under control, be able to quantify it better before the next economic boom. And this concept of some greater economic benefit... Meh. Too much unknown and unseen... I'm against more of the same. I'm for knowing absolutely who and how many illegals are here. I'm for selecting folks for immigration whom we want as citizens... who bring skills we need...can be menial labor, should be short term if we need to ramp.
