If there was a playoff...

elkona

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First, we'd see how overrated Ohio State is.
The Buckeyes are #1 and will play for the nat'l championship solely because they are the best team in a woeful conference and played Washington for their "big" non-conference game.
Now that that's out of my system, here is how I see the top 8 teams in an imaginary championship playoff (God willing, we'll have it some day). My seeding assumes that teams move up logically in the rankings after yesterday's events ... meaning no one gets leap-frogged if they won or didn't play and last week's top 2 teams, which lost, drop out of the top 8.
Love to see your imaginary brackets.
I think any of 4 lowest-seeded teams could win it all, but I'd predict LSU as the eventual champion.

1. OSU vs. 8. Fla.
2. Georgia vs. 7. Okla.
3. Kansas vs. 6. USC
4. Va. Tech vs. 5. LSU
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Sounds good to me. But I don't know if it's fair to the student/athletes to add 2 more games to their schedule. If they do that, then they should limit the season to 11 games.
 
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solo

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Not exactly sure how I would seed them, but my 8 best are:

LSU
GA
USC
OK
VT
Missouri
FL
Ohio State
 
M

Moostache

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I don't think we'll ever get a playoff as long as the conferences in football are allowed to do things like the BCS or bowl-game tie ins.

The NCAA should take over declaring a champion in football the same as they do in EVERY OTHER COLLEGE SPORT!

Can you imagine this nonsense in basketball???

What is IU won the Big N, Duke won the ACC, Kentucky won the SEC, UCLA won the PAC-10 and Kansas won the Big 12 and then all of them got special invites to their own "conference affiliated post-season tourneys" instead of playing in an NCAA tourney? Imagine that basketball schools like Indiana were allowed to claim national championships the same way that Alabama does...shit, Bob Knight would have probably doubled up John Wooden in such an insane system!

I am not only anti-BCS, I am totally anti-conference ties in for Bowl games as well.

No more PAC-10 / Big-10 Rose Bowls only
No more Big-12 in Fiesta and SEC in the Sugar and ACC in the Orange....

Go back to 4 main New Year's Day Bowl games ONLY (Maybe leave the Gator and Fiesta on in the AM hours, but move EVERYTHING else to either the day after Christmas or New Year's Eve)....make them the Rose, Cotton, Sugar and Orange.

Open the big 4 games to bidding and let the chaos ensue....shit, can't be any worse or more convoluted than what is happening now anyway...
 
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solo

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Hawaii just didn't show me anything this year. Sure, they can score. Can they play D? Can they beat a really good team? Could they hold up under a schedule that had multiple tough opponents in consecutive weeks?

Hawaii to me looks an awful lot like the other pretenders that made the top 5 only to drop out.
 

ACamp1900

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I don't think we'll ever get a playoff as long as the conferences in football are allowed to do things like the BCS or bowl-game tie ins.

The NCAA should take over declaring a champion in football the same as they do in EVERY OTHER COLLEGE SPORT!

Can you imagine this nonsense in basketball???

What is IU won the Big N, Duke won the ACC, Kentucky won the SEC, UCLA won the PAC-10 and Kansas won the Big 12 and then all of them got special invites to their own "conference affiliated post-season tourneys" instead of playing in an NCAA tourney? Imagine that basketball schools like Indiana were allowed to claim national championships the same way that Alabama does...shit, Bob Knight would have probably doubled up John Wooden in such an insane system!

I am not only anti-BCS, I am totally anti-conference ties in for Bowl games as well.

No more PAC-10 / Big-10 Rose Bowls only
No more Big-12 in Fiesta and SEC in the Sugar and ACC in the Orange....

Go back to 4 main New Year's Day Bowl games ONLY (Maybe leave the Gator and Fiesta on in the AM hours, but move EVERYTHING else to either the day after Christmas or New Year's Eve)....make them the Rose, Cotton, Sugar and Orange.

Open the big 4 games to bidding and let the chaos ensue....shit, can't be any worse or more convoluted than what is happening now anyway...


YOu sound like an NFL fan... I suggest you stay with what you like...
 

ACamp1900

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Playoffs formatted correctly do solve everything.

NOPE.

there is just as many "fairness" issues as a BCS like system the issues are just very different...

Playoffs usually do nothing but destroy what was established during the thing that should matter most--- (and I know this is a right field concept for you playoff lemmings) A REGULAR SEASON... It's not fair to make a team that has proved over the course of an entire season they are above certain lesser teams prove it time and time again in some crappy playoff system... You'll still have people griping about fariness on who gets in and you'll have teams that never would have EARNED a right for a title shot in the BCS getting hot and winning a title... that sits really wrong with me... a playoff would destroy the history of the bowl system... a HUGE part of what makes cfb what it is... that sits really wrong with me... and here's the big one... playoff thumpers try and pretend it's all about fairness and the BCS is all about the money... sorry to break it to the lemmings... playoffs are all about the money as well, same issue different angle. The NBA playoffs, expanded to make more dollars... MLB playoffs, expanded to make more dollars... NFL playoffs, expanded to make more dollars... NCAA basketball expanded to ridculous lengths, all to make more dollars... each of these sports has hence RARELY had the two teams that asserted themselves as the best in their sport ALL SEASON LONG play for the championship... how crappy is that?? Why do you people want to see a Super Bowl between two wild card teams?? They don't "win it on the field"... they back into a shity playoff and get hot... the idea of teams like that being crowned champion taints each of those sports to me...

Now, do you honestly thnk cfb and the powers that be will levae a playoff at an 4-8 team playoff in interest of some ridculous concept of fariness??? Nope. they'll expand the amount of teams for the dollars... how will they do this? every time it comes down to two teams for the final spot people like you will cry about fairness and polls and you'll hear this... "Okay, let's expand the field next year"... In the mean time You've destoryed the bowls/ (Sorry, you know you like having the Rose Bowl New Year's Morning and the Sug. New Year's night) You've detroyed the regular season/ and you've opened the door for teams that have earned nothing but an offseason workout regiment to be crowned "champions"...

the examples given have USC and Va Tech in the bracket... any system that lets a team that loses to Standford at home or one that gets beat by 30 on National Television in a 12 game season win their repective title is massively flawed
 
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piyachi

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Yea I mean why even have a title game, the team that finishes at the top of the poll should be the champion.
 

elkona

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LSU is IMO the best team in the country. Now the polls are out and I see that many voters agree. They wouldn't vote them #1 because of OSU's single loss, but LSU leapfrogged several teams to become #2.
Has there previously been a two-loss team that won the nat'l championship? Because LSU is going to do it this year.
(Note KU's slide down the poll once Missouri lost & Florida's still respectable ranking with three losses. Finally, the voters get something right. ... altho I'd be pissed if I was Georgia's coach.)
AP POLL:
1. Ohio State (50) 11-1 1,578
2. LSU (11) 11-2 1,519
3. Oklahoma (1) 11-2 1,423
4. Georgia (1) 10-2 1,421
5. Virginia Tech (1) 11-2 1,380
6. USC 10-2 1,346
7. Missouri 11-2 1,195
8. Kansas 11-1 1,164
9. Florida 9-3 1,071
10. Hawaii (1) 12-0 1,050
 

ACamp1900

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UGA's coach is a fine upstanding gentlemen who makes cameos in Christian films... he gets pissed about nothing...

;)
 
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solo

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NOPE.

there is just as many "fairness" issues as a BCS like system the issues are just very different...

Playoffs usually do nothing but destroy what was established during the thing that should matter most--- (and I know this is a right field concept for you playoff lemmings) A REGULAR SEASON... It's not fair to make a team that has proved over the course of an entire season they are above certain lesser teams prove it time and time again in some crappy playoff system... You'll still have people griping about fariness on who gets in and you'll have teams that never would have EARNED a right for a title shot in the BCS getting hot and winning a title... that sits really wrong with me... a playoff would destroy the history of the bowl system... a HUGE part of what makes cfb what it is... that sits really wrong with me... and here's the big one... playoff thumpers try and pretend it's all about fairness and the BCS is all about the money... sorry to break it to the lemmings... playoffs are all about the money as well, same issue different angle. The NBA playoffs, expanded to make more dollars... MLB playoffs, expanded to make more dollars... NFL playoffs, expanded to make more dollars... NCAA basketball expanded to ridculous lengths, all to make more dollars... each of these sports has hence RARELY had the two teams that asserted themselves as the best in their sport ALL SEASON LONG play for the championship... how crappy is that?? Why do you people want to see a Super Bowl between two wild card teams?? They don't "win it on the field"... they back into a shity playoff and get hot... the idea of teams like that being crowned champion taints each of those sports to me...

Now, do you honestly thnk cfb and the powers that be will levae a playoff at an 4-8 team playoff in interest of some ridculous concept of fariness??? Nope. they'll expand the amount of teams for the dollars... how will they do this? every time it comes down to two teams for the final spot people like you will cry about fairness and polls and you'll hear this... "Okay, let's expand the field next year"... In the mean time You've destoryed the bowls/ (Sorry, you know you like having the Rose Bowl New Year's Morning and the Sug. New Year's night) You've detroyed the regular season/ and you've opened the door for teams that have earned nothing but an offseason workout regiment to be crowned "champions"...

the examples given have USC and Va Tech in the bracket... any system that lets a team that loses to Standford at home or one that gets beat by 30 on National Television in a 12 game season win their repective title is massively flawed

So you think Ohio State earned it in the regular season by beating up on a bunch of pansies? Had they played LSU's schedule, they probably would have lost 4 games. But because they were able to survive with one loss in a down big 10 conference, guys like you will say that they earned it. The truth is, you can't accurately determine who had the best regular season because nobody plays the same schedule. The only fair thing to do is to throw the conference champs in a playloff...and not just the BCS conferences.

You say that the bowl system has largely defined college football? The bowl system from the start was ALWAYS set up as a merely money making venue and has already expanded to the ridiculous measures that you claim a playoff will. When the bowls first came out, the champion was already named. The bowls merely existed as revenue generating exhibition games. They didn't impact the champuionship in the least. This is the history that you wish to preserve?

First and foremost, the NCAA is the governing body. THEY need to name a champion to make it legit. We need to do away with the mythical part of the championship. You don't find it absurd that the governing body doesn't name the champion? I do.

Secondly, we need to include everyone. The BCS conferences only comprise of 65 out of 119 teams. The other 54 teams stand virtually no chance of winning the title as witnessed by Boise State and Hawaii. Why shouldn't we include everyone? Is this some select club? C'mon..be fair. Your precious BCS conferences can still make all the money they need AND we can have a legit champ.

A 16 team playoff is fair to everyone. 11 conference champs plus 5 at large. That keeps the regular season relevent and includes anyone that possibly deserves a title shot. You may like the current system and all it's inequities and controversy. But if you truly want what is best for the sport and the athletes and not just what is best for your entertainment, you would support a playoff. The current system nearly predetermines their champ with preseason polls, creates a system of haves and haves nots, excludes almost half the teams, ends in controversy almost every year, and doesn't crown a legit champ (named by the governing body). It's just a huge mone making sham is all it is.

It's really such a lopsided debate that anyone debating your side of it looks silly. Just look around to every other major sport. There is a reason why playoff ssettle every other championship.
 

ACamp1900

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Just look around to every other major sport. There is a reason why playoff ssettle every other championship.

Another lemming jumps off the cliff.....

Each of your points aside from the history of the bowls are merely opinon... and each one has a counter point... that is merely opinon... while I agree with the preseason polls and have made that point many times in the past it is still our opinon...

both systems are flawed... why change it when it's so interesting right now... again... many people love a poll based system... cfb as you correctly stated is our only sport... leave us to ours and we'll leave you to yours... playoffs often do not produce a truely great champion for THAT SEASON, they simply give you the winner of a playoff... calling that fair and unflawed is what's silly
 
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ACamp1900

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Maybe we should go with a rock, paper scissor tourney...
 

ACamp1900

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solo... I see you're taking a half hour to reply again and I'm leaving for the day... I'll end with this... my argument isn't so much FOR the BCS rather against a playoff in general and keeping the bowls intact... what's so great or fair about letting a team that finished two games above .500 upend a team that went undefeated in the regular season... that is far from fair... why even have a regular season in some of these sports... it has little to do with who gets crowned champion in the NBA, NHL, CBB and others... if that's what everyone loves so much why not just seed a playoff with every team in the country according to the pre season polls and play it out right from the get go?

as for those who love a playoff I continue my playful jabs...

Lemmings.jpg


"everyone else says, 'Go playoffs'..."
 
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NDSMC78

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Just look around to every other major sport. There is a reason why playoff ssettle every other championship.

I can remember back to the days when one team from the National League and one team from the American League went to the World Series. Other than those two teams, there were no playoffs. I even remember when the NFL eastern conference champs played the NFL western conference champs for the NFL title. Other than those two teams, there were no playoffs.
Why do you think that MLB, the NFL and every other sport have bastardized their post seasons? The idea of having the best team win the championship does not enter into it. Pure and simple, it's all about money. The more post season games that are played, the more money there is to be made. Don't kid yourself otherwise.
 
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solo

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Another lemming jumps off the cliff.....

Each of your points aside from the history of the bowls are merely opinon... and each one has a counter point... that is merely opinon... while I agree with the preseason polls and have made that point many times in the past it is still our opinon...

both systems are flawed... why change it when it's so interesting right now... again... many people love a poll based system... cfb as you correctly stated is our only sport... leave us to ours and we'll leave you to yours... playoffs often do not produce a truely great champion for THAT SEASON, they simply give you the winner of a playoff... calling that fair and unflawed is what's silly

FAIR: As in equitable and unbiased. The current system creates an inequitable relationship between the BCS conferences and the BCS bowls. It creates a conference bias. Including all conference champs is fair. Win your conference and you are in. Plain, simple, and fair.

Unflawed: Nobody said that any system is unlfawed. A playoff is less flawed. The current system excludes teams that have legit claims to the title (Auburn a few years ago, Penn St 4 times undefeated untied and uncrowned, Bpoise State last year, Hawaii this year). A playoff includes pretty much anylone that coudl make a legit claim to the title.

I like controversy just as much as the next guy. But I think the players deserve better. Maybe the next time ND gets shafted out of a NC you might change your stance.
 

ACamp1900

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I can remember back to the days when one team from the National League and one team from the American League went to the World Series. Other than those two teams, there were no playoffs. I even remember when the NFL eastern conference champs played the NFL western conference champs for the NFL title. Other than those two teams, there were no playoffs.
Why do you think that MLB, the NFL and every other sport have bastardized their post seasons? The idea of having the best team win the championship does not enter into it. Pure and simple, it's all about money. The more post season games that are played, the more money there is to be made. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

;)

Have a nice day

:)
 
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solo

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I can remember back to the days when one team from the National League and one team from the American League went to the World Series. Other than those two teams, there were no playoffs. I even remember when the NFL eastern conference champs played the NFL western conference champs for the NFL title. Other than those two teams, there were no playoffs.
Why do you think that MLB, the NFL and every other sport have bastardized their post seasons? The idea of having the best team win the championship does not enter into it. Pure and simple, it's all about money. The more post season games that are played, the more money there is to be made. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

Funny you reference Professional sports.

What about other collegiate sports? What about High school sports? Those sports are decided by playoffs too and it's not all about the money.
 
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NDSMC78

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FAIR: As in equitable and unbiased. The current system creates an inequitable relationship between the BCS conferences and the BCS bowls. It creates a conference bias. Including all conference champs is fair. Win your conference and you are in. Plain, simple, and fair.

Unflawed: Nobody said that any system is unlfawed. A playoff is less flawed. The current system excludes teams that have legit claims to the title (Auburn a few years ago, Penn St 4 times undefeated untied and uncrowned, Bpoise State last year, Hawaii this year). A playoff includes pretty much anylone that coudl make a legit claim to the title.


Point # 1--The suggestion that all conference champs belong in a playoff is nonsense. That is probably one of the main reasons so many oppose the idea of a playoff. There have been several BCS conference champs which have gone to BCS bowls with 3 and 4 losses. Three and four loss teams should not be playing for the NC.

Point # 2--Even with an 8 team playoff, neither Boise St. last year or Hawaii this year would have qualified. Neither finished the regular season in the top 8. You have got to keep in mind that the entire BCS is a creation of the 6 BCS conferences which want to keep as much money and as much prestige as they can.

Point # 3. You suggest that a playoff "includes anyone that could make a legit claim to the title." How many teams are you talking about? Six teams one year, seven another year, and three the next? CFB is fluid. Some years a number of teams have better credentials. Other years only 2 are worthy. Your statement about "anyone with a legit claim" is not practical.
 
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solo

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Point # 1--The suggestion that all conference champs belong in a playoff is nonsense. That is probably one of the main reasons so many oppose the idea of a playoff. There have been several BCS conference champs which have gone to BCS bowls with 3 and 4 losses. Three and four loss teams should not be playing for the NC.

Point # 2--Even with an 8 team playoff, neither Boise St. last year or Hawaii this year would have qualified. Neither finished the regular season in the top 8. You have got to keep in mind that the entire BCS is a creation of the 6 BCS conferences which want to keep as much money and as much prestige as they can.

Point # 3. You suggest that a playoff "includes anyone that could make a legit claim to the title." How many teams are you talking about? Six teams one year, seven another year, and three the next? CFB is fluid. Some years a number of teams have better credentials. Other years only 2 are worthy. Your statement about "anyone with a legit claim" is not practical.

Point 1...What is nonsense is determing before a snap of football is played that the champion needs to come from 1 of 6 conferences that only include 65 of ther 119 teams. You dou don't see this as a system of "haves and have nots"?

Point 2 and point 3...I don't want an 8 team playoff. There are 11 confercnes. I want every teams regular season to have meaning. Let in all 11 conference champs plus 5 at large. Nobody outside that group could have a legite claim and the undefeated teams from the non BCS conferences get teoir shot.
 
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NDSMC78

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Point 1...What is nonsense is determing before a snap of football is played that the champion needs to come from 1 of 6 conferences that only include 65 of ther 119 teams. You dou don't see this as a system of "haves and have nots"?

Point 2 and point 3...I don't want an 8 team playoff. There are 11 confercnes. I want every teams regular season to have meaning. Let in all 11 conference champs plus 5 at large. Nobody outside that group could have a legite claim and the undefeated teams from the non BCS conferences get teoir shot.

Yep, why should a 4 loss FSU (2002), a 4 loss Texas (1999), a 3 loss Purdue (2000), and a 3 loss Stanford (1999) be playing for a NC. All of these teams got BCS bids. If you are going to have 3 and 4 loss teams playing for the NC, you might as well have a 6 game season, and allow all 119 teams in the playoff.

As for all 11 conferences getting automatic bids, never going to happen, nor should it. No one is dying to see Troy play LSU or Central Michigan play Ohio St.
 
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solo

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You say that nobody is dying to see Central Michigan play OSU or Trou plauy LSU. That's what we have in the regular season because the big BCS teams keep trying to schedule a NC. We already have these games. Why not let force the big boys to play the GOOD non BCS teams instead of the bottom deeders? And I think any BCS team could seel out a home playoff game against anyone.

So why don't all 11 conference champs deserve auto bids? Boise State beat OK and Utah beat Pitt in the only BCS opportunities these conferences were afforded. In a day and age when App State can beat Michigan, it's not unreasonable to think that the mid majors coudl compete in the playoffs and that they deserve the chance.
 
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NDSMC78

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You say that nobody is dying to see Central Michigan play OSU or Trou plauy LSU. That's what we have in the regular season because the big BCS teams keep trying to schedule a NC.

So why don't all 11 conference champs deserve auto bids?


These two statements, taken together, are incongruous. If we don't want to see these games during the regular season, why do we want to see them in the playoffs?
 
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solo

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These two statements, taken together, are incongruous. If we don't want to see these games during the regular season, why do we want to see them in the playoffs?

What we DONT want to see is big BCS teams feasting on middle of the road or bottom feeder mid majors. Watching the best of the BCS conferences play the best of the mid majors can be very entertaining and competitive (as already proven).
 

ACamp1900

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FAIR: As in equitable and unbiased. The current system creates an inequitable relationship between the BCS conferences and the BCS bowls. It creates a conference bias. Including all conference champs is fair. Win your conference and you are in. Plain, simple, and fair.

Unflawed: Nobody said that any system is unlfawed. A playoff is less flawed. The current system excludes teams that have legit claims to the title (Auburn a few years ago, Penn St 4 times undefeated untied and uncrowned, Bpoise State last year, Hawaii this year). A playoff includes pretty much anylone that coudl make a legit claim to the title.

I like controversy just as much as the next guy. But I think the players deserve better. Maybe the next time ND gets shafted out of a NC you might change your stance.

Fair... exactly... niether system is that a playoff is extremely biased in regards to the soprts top teams during the regular season

less flawed is all opinon...ours obviously differ... presenting you arguement from a more structured stance doesn't change that

No, ND got screwed in 93 and I didn't change my feelings then...
 
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