I suppose it's entirely impossible.......

[kmoose]

I suppose it's entirely impossible to believe that these high school rating services are not really accurate predictors, and that there is not as much actual talent as we would like to believe, on the field in South Bend?

I mean, there are only what, a couple hundred thousand kids playing high school football? I'm sure that the 40-50 (a guess) guys that Rivals.com has evaluating these kids have seen film on every one of them, and have watched the film of their opponents, to get an accurate picture of their talent level? These guys have probably gone to 70 or 80 games a weekend, to actually see these players in action? Surely we should can our entire coaching staff, because there is no doubt as to the reliability of these high school ranking systems. That's obviously the only logical conclusion.

People need to STFU about canning Weis. The guy has two Super Bowl rings, but we are supposed to fire him because you are tired of taking abuse from the guys at work, or maybe your friends and neighbors, about how bad ND is? Grow up!

 

[midwestguy]

Surely we should can our entire coaching staff, because there is no doubt as to the reliability of these high school ranking systems. That's obviously the only logical conclusion.

People need to STFU about canning Weis. The guy has two Super Bowl rings, but we are supposed to fire him because you are tired of taking abuse from the guys at work, or maybe your friends and neighbors, about how bad ND is? Grow up!

Seriously? Who recruited these kids? Because I thought it was the coaching staff. And if they rely solely on Rivals & Scouts, then shame on them.

As to canning Charlie, you are free to disagree with that approach, but telling people to grow up is weak sauce. He has coached badly enough these last 2 years to merit being fired.

Also, I don't need my neighbor to tell me what I have been watching on Saturdays. My eyes tell me all I need to know.

 

[BeatSC]

Floyd, Tate, Rudolph, Allen, Gray, Smith, even Clausen. These kids are already pretty good and still young. It's the coaches job to get them to the next level. Not sure how many stars are O-line rated. My guess is they are not the reason we have had top 10 classes the last couple of years. Let's hope Cierre Woods is very special.

 

[NDOM]

I suppose it's entirely impossible to believe that these high school rating services are not really accurate predictors, and that there is not as much actual talent as we would like to believe, on the field in South Bend?

I mean, there are only what, a couple hundred thousand kids playing high school football? I'm sure that the 40-50 (a guess) guys that Rivals.com has evaluating these kids have seen film on every one of them, and have watched the film of their opponents, to get an accurate picture of their talent level? These guys have probably gone to 70 or 80 games a weekend, to actually see these players in action? Surely we should can our entire coaching staff, because there is no doubt as to the reliability of these high school ranking systems. That's obviously the only logical conclusion.

People need to STFU about canning Weis. The guy has two Super Bowl rings, but we are supposed to fire him because you are tired of taking abuse from the guys at work, or maybe your friends and neighbors, about how bad ND is? Grow up!

The guy may have 2 super bowl rings but WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT DO FOR HIM AT THE COLLEGE LEVEL???? NOT A FUCKIN THING! So if your all excited about 2 goddamn stupid rings then I suggest to go work at jared. "IT COULD ONLY BE JARED"!!!! Come on man seriously. Charlie Weis is a has been and never will be again.

And I could give a shit what people say to me about Notre Dame. I can see for myself that I dont like what I see at all. It's not hard to see, all you have to do is open your eyes.

 

[Timugen]

I suppose it's entirely impossible to believe that these high school rating services are not really accurate predictors, and that there is not as much actual talent as we would like to believe, on the field in South Bend?

I mean, there are only what, a couple hundred thousand kids playing high school football? I'm sure that the 40-50 (a guess) guys that Rivals.com has evaluating these kids have seen film on every one of them, and have watched the film of their opponents, to get an accurate picture of their talent level? These guys have probably gone to 70 or 80 games a weekend, to actually see these players in action? Surely we should can our entire coaching staff, because there is no doubt as to the reliability of these high school ranking systems. That's obviously the only logical conclusion.

People need to STFU about canning Weis. The guy has two Super Bowl rings, but we are supposed to fire him because you are tired of taking abuse from the guys at work, or maybe your friends and neighbors, about how bad ND is? Grow up!

Sure.

But I wonder why it is that the other top football schools bring in the top recruits (as evaluated by the same recruiting services) and that talent level shows up on the field and in the W column, yet for some mysterious reason it doesn't work like that for us under [NAME REDACTED]?

This is a coaching issue, and anyone who tries to deny that at this point or to rationalize our suckage is extremely delusional.

As for the super bowl rings, what exactly have they gotten him at ND.....other than helping him bring in some of the best talent and wasting it?

Put the friggin' Kool-Aid down - it's spiked with mind-altering drugs.


[NAME REDACTED] has yet to show (in either the NFL or college) that he can put a solid football team on the field without somebody named Brady under center. Sometimes people are the victim of circumstance, but it's starting to look like [NAME REDACTED] has been the beneficiary of circumstance for some time now.

 

[phork]

Whats with the name redacted BS.

 

[SteveM]

What's What

What's What

Whats with the name redacted BS.

A clever irony that you do not get because you are "green".

Nothing that a little maturation in Manhattan won't cure.

SteveM

 

[kmoose]

If they fired Weis today, I would not agree with it. But neither would I jump up and down and holler and scream about it. You guys seem to think that my mention of the Super Bowl rings means that I am blindly backing Weis. I'm not. But the fact remains........the guy has two Super Bowl rings, whereas I highly doubt any of you have even one, let alone have played in the NFL, or even played football at a major D-IA University. And I feel pretty confident that none of you have been a head coach at a major D-IA University. The point being this: Weis almost undoubtedly knows more about coaching COLLEGE football (or football at any level, for that matter) than any one of you. You want us to take your coaching "wisdom" seriously? Get off of your ass and go prove what a great football coaching mind you have, by landing a major DI-A Head Coaching job. Oh, and average 10 wins a year, too.

 

[Junkhead]

If they fired Weis today, I would not agree with it. But neither would I jump up and down and holler and scream about it. You guys seem to think that my mention of the Super Bowl rings means that I am blindly backing Weis. I'm not. But the fact remains........the guy has two Super Bowl rings, whereas I highly doubt any of you have even one, let alone have played in the NFL, or even played football at a major D-IA University. And I feel pretty confident that none of you have been a head coach at a major D-IA University. The point being this: Weis almost undoubtedly knows more about coaching COLLEGE football (or football at any level, for that matter) than any one of you. You want us to take your coaching "wisdom" seriously? Get off of your ass and go prove what a great football coaching mind you have, by landing a major DI-A Head Coaching job. Oh, and average 10 wins a year, too.

Super Bowl rings don't mean you can motivate and coach a college football team. I want CW to succeed, but it's becoming difficult to keep drinking the kool-aid.

 

[kmoose]

Super Bowl rings don't mean you can motivate and coach a college football team. I want CW to succeed, but it's becoming difficult to keep drinking the kool-aid.

I'm not drinking any kool-aid. I'm just as pissed off about the BC loss as everyone else. But I'm tired of reading about what a tool, and piss poor coach, Weis is. If you compare this year to last year, you have to see some improvement. NC and Pitt would have blown out last year's squad. Purdue and Stanford might have even beat them. That's four games where we have shown some real improvement. For Christ's sake, people, have some patience. And, if you can't have patience, then simply STFU.

 

[ACamp1900]

Sure.

But I wonder why it is that the other top football schools bring in the top recruits (as evaluated by the same recruiting services) and that talent level shows up on the field and in the W column, yet for some mysterious reason it doesn't work like that for us under [NAME REDACTED]?

not going there witht he rest of your post quite yet but you beat me to it here... the NUMBER ONE barometer of a schools success over the last ten years has been rivals.com rankings... the teams that have had a spot in the top ten year after year during that time are Texas, USC, LSU, Florida...

all have titles during this time... tOSU can't hang with them because they have NOT had top ten classes with each and every year... but guess who has three years running now??? Notre Dame... yet we can't beat Pitt or BC!?!?!?!?!

Something is VERY wrong with this picture... Bama has less talent than we do and they are tearing up the SEC... if it ain't coaching than wtf is it???

 

[NDinL.A.]

not going there witht he rest of your post quite yet but you beat me to it here... the NUMBER ONE barometer of a schools success over the last ten years has been rivals.com rankings... the teams that have had a spot in the top ten year after year during that time are Texas, USC, LSU, Florida...

all have titles during this time... tOSU can't hang with them because they have NOT had top ten classes with each and every year... but guess who has three years running now??? Notre Dame... yet we can't beat Pitt or BC!?!?!?!?!

Something is VERY wrong with this picture... Bama has less talent than we do and they are tearing up the SEC... if it ain't coaching than wtf is it???

I was with you until the last statement. You make a lot of great points, and yes, coaching does need to be looked at, as much as I believe in CW.

But Bama does NOT have less talent than we do. No way. They have guys who can outrun cop cars on defense, and guys who can probably overturn cop cars on defense as well. They are NASTY on defense. We might have better receivers and a more talented, yet younger, QB, but their RB's are better and I'll take their O-line over ours, who open up some nice holes for Coffee (he's a stud). Bama is number one for a reason, and talent is a big reason. Definitely coaching too, but don't dismiss their talent...

 

[ACamp1900]

I was with you until the last statement. You make a lot of great points, and yes, coaching does need to be looked at, as much as I believe in CW.

But Bama does NOT have less talent than we do. No way. They have guys who can outrun cop cars on defense, and guys who can probably overturn cop cars on defense as well. They are NASTY on defense. We might have better receivers and a more talented, yet younger, QB, but their RB's are better and I'll take their O-line over ours, who open up some nice holes for Coffee (he's a stud). Bama is number one for a reason, and talent is a big reason. Definitely coaching too, but don't dismiss their talent...

I'm not dismissing thier talent... did it come off like I was knocking them??? there talent is top level, but according to all recruiting sites we currently have more... they may have a better line, possibly more balance and such but OUR talent should show as well, that's the point... not a knock on Bama, it's a wtf as us...

and yes, we have more talent

 

[SoCalDomer]

I'm not dismissing thier talent... did it come off like I was knocking them??? there talent is top level, but according to all recruiting sites we currently have more... they may have a better line, possibly more balance and such but OUR talent should show as well, that's the point... not a knock on Bama, it's a wtf as us...

and yes, we have more talent

whether Alabama has more talent or less, I won't get into that debate. But by the numbers (meaning numbers of recruits), the teams are not equal.

Recall when trying to compare class ranks that ND has lost members of their 2005 and 2006 classes. The reason I bring this up is that Rivals does not go back and re-rank the teams, so the ranks those years are misleading.

The 2005 class, originally 15-members, now only numbers 12, having lost Hiben, Hord and Hand to injuries or transfer.

The 26-member 2006 class lost 8-member due to career ending injuries or transfers. Two additional members are sitting out this year (Yeatman and Walls). That 2006, 26-member recruiting class is now 18, minus the two players sitting out is effectively 16-members for this year.

So the Sr and Jr recruiting classes that should have 41 members on the team have only 28 this year.

So whatever ND's classes were ranked in 05 and 06, they would not be so highly ranked if they were to take out the members no longer with the team, and some how factor in the two players not playing with the team this year.

One thing Saban's predecessor was not fired for was his inability to recruit.

Since I don't follow Alabama in depth, I don't know whether they suffered the same rate of attirition in their 2005 and 2006 classes. For purposes of this comparison, I am assuming they didn't. And that may be a safe assumption, since as you will see by the numbers, Alabama always takes far more players than they have scholarships for, they greyshirt the excess and when someone leaves the team due to injury or transfer, they can simply add a greyshirt to the roster (assuming academic issues are resolved). Alabama also accepts JC recruits. So even if they lose someone, the loss is not devastating, because they always have more members waiting in the wings to join the team.

(all numbers by Rivals)
In 2005, Alabama's 32-member class was ranked #18; ND's 15-member class ranked #40.
In 2006, Alabama's 23-member class was ranked #11; ND's 26-member class ranked #8.
In 2007 Alabama's 25-member class was ranked #10; ND's 18-member class ranked #8.
In 2008, Alabama's 32-member class was ranked #1***; ND's 23-member class ranked #2***).

(*** Due to admissions, Alabama swapped the #1 rank with ND in September)

So, as mentioned above, ND's Sr and Jr classes are no doubt not the rank they used to be, having lost 13 members combined (2-Jrs will return next year), and are no where near the numbers Alabama has. I think it's safe to say the 2007 and 2008 classes are very even.

Now I'm not arguing about whether this excuses or explains ND's results on the field. I merely bring this numbers up because I was curious, looked at them, and saw a significant difference there.

 

[ACamp1900]

the point still easily remains... given Bama's schedule in comparison to ours... there is zero excuse they we have our record and they are #1 in the country... if thier talent can go that far ours should be able to beat Pitt... period.

AND ours should be able to go play for play with a team like thiers... yet we all know Bama would handle us 9/10 times... no excuse


.

 

[SoCalDomer]

the point still easily remains... given Bama's schedule in comparison to ours... there is zero excuse they we have our record and they are #1 in the country... if thier talent can go that far ours should be able to beat Pitt... period.

AND ours should be able to go play for play with a team like thiers... yet we all know Bama would handle us 9/10 times... no excuse
.

I agree.

(But, before anyone thinks Alabama is playing all NFL caliber teams this year, do look at their schedule. They struggled against some teams early on, but have come on strong against a couple very tough opponents. No doubt the toughest opponents individually are better than any teams ND has played.)

 

[ACamp1900]

I agree.

(But, before anyone thinks Alabama is playing all NFL caliber teams this year, do look at their schedule. They struggled against some teams early on, but have come on strong against a couple very tough opponents. No doubt the toughest opponents individually are better than any teams ND has played.)

yeah it's certainly not the SEC of three years ago but it's far and away better than SDSU, Pitt, and Navy

 

[NDinL.A.]

I'm not dismissing thier talent... did it come off like I was knocking them??? there talent is top level, but according to all recruiting sites we currently have more... they may have a better line, possibly more balance and such but OUR talent should show as well, that's the point... not a knock on Bama, it's a wtf as us...

and yes, we have more talent

I don't think you came off like you were knocking them, I think you come off as frustrated as hell as to why our record is what it is. Like I said, I agree with pretty much everything you said, except for the last thing.

I've seen Alabama play several times, and their defensive athletes are night and day with ours. Night and day. It's not even close. And their o-line os way better than ours, as is their RB's. We beat them at certain positions, but overall they are more talented. And unless we relax our academic standards (don't shoot me, I'm just saying), it's going to be that way with those SEC schools who'll recruit anybody who can run a 4.4 40.

I know coaching has a big part of it, but Alabama is simply more talented, plain and simple. And I know you feel otherwise (not ripping you at all, but I honestly don't see it), so I guess we'll agree to disagree. Peace...

 

[SoCalDomer]

yeah it's certainly not the SEC of three years ago but it's far and away better than SDSU, Pitt, and Navy

right. regardless of schedule, a team has one job; to win the games they play.

 

[WaveDomer]

Emotion

Emotion

So much of the college game is emotion. ND has been in a losing rut for so long that it's going to be tough to get out of it. Maybe if we had won the USC "Bush Push" game it would be a different story at ND right now. These guys need to become the team that knows they will win every single Saturday. They are still not doing the little things that get wins. That Pitt loss happened because of the dumbest ass penalty I have ever seen, totally away from the play and allowed Pitt to keep a drive going and score. The OL is not dominating and opening holes like they should and I think it may be attitude. That is coaching, plain and simple. Coaches like Saban are masters of getting the most from their players week in and week out. That's why they have immediate success everywhere they go (except in professional ranks). ND is in a real pickle right now. If they do get rid of Weis, what happens with recruits and who do they get to coach there now? The coaching carousel is not a good ride to be on. I think the real option is to hold tight right now and hope that Weis can getting the players connected emotionally to the game. College game is more heart than head.

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't think you came off like you were knocking them, I think you come off as frustrated as hell as to why our record is what it is. Like I said, I agree with pretty much everything you said, except for the last thing.

I've seen Alabama play several times, and their defensive athletes are night and day with ours. Night and day. It's not even close. And their o-line os way better than ours, as is their RB's. We beat them at certain positions, but overall they are more talented. And unless we relax our academic standards (don't shoot me, I'm just saying), it's going to be that way with those SEC schools who'll recruit anybody who can run a 4.4 40.

I know coaching has a big part of it, but Alabama is simply more talented, plain and simple. And I know you feel otherwise (not ripping you at all, but I honestly don't see it), so I guess we'll agree to disagree. Peace...

I agree with your overall all point and really it plays into mine... I'm not saying we are a better team or more solid... my whole point is that is that it is obvious that we are not and that should not happen considering all factors. I'm simply pointing out a very good case can be made that ND has as much if not more talent than they do... and that promise if you will has not shown up at all... my point IS that Bama is head and shoulders above us and there is no excuse for that... we have the players and should be at least near their level... yet we aren't even in the same galaxy... especially on defense... and let's face it, excpet for the vertical game on offense there is not ONE aspect of our team that plays to the talent level we currently have.

 

[ACamp1900]

So much of the college game is emotion. ND has been in a losing rut for so long that it's going to be tough to get out of it. Maybe if we had won the USC "Bush Push" game it would be a different story at ND right now. These guys need to become the team that knows they will win every single Saturday. They are still not doing the little things that get wins. That Pitt loss happened because of the dumbest ass penalty I have ever seen, totally away from the play and allowed Pitt to keep a drive going and score. The OL is not dominating and opening holes like they should and I think it may be attitude. That is coaching, plain and simple. Coaches like Saban are masters of getting the most from their players week in and week out. That's why they have immediate success everywhere they go (except in professional ranks). ND is in a real pickle right now. If they do get rid of Weis, what happens with recruits and who do they get to coach there now? The coaching carousel is not a good ride to be on. I think the real option is to hold tight right now and hope that Weis can getting the players connected emotionally to the game. College game is more heart than head.

reps... I agree totally, only problem is... if this staff can't get Brady and co. up for the big game, what do we have to suggest they will get this crop up at some point???

"real pickle" says it all...

 

[NDinL.A.]

I agree with your overall all point and really it plays into mine... I'm not saying we are a better team or more solid... my whole point is that is that it is obvious that we are not and that should not happen considering all factors. I'm simply pointing out a very good case can be made that ND has as much if not more talent than they do... and that promise if you will has not shown up at all... my point IS that Bama is head and shoulders above us and there is no excuse for that... we have the players and should be at least near their level... yet we aren't even in the same galaxy... especially on defense... and let's face it, excpet for the vertical game on offense there is not ONE aspect of our team that plays to the talent level we currently have.

Wait, so you're telling me that you DON'T like watching Allen going down after getting breathed on, or slow-developing pitch plays to our power backs, or JC doing his stare-stare-stare-stare-throw plays, or us ignoring the middle of the field??? Hmmm, you're a weird guy Ace.

I'm hoping beyond hope that the progress that we have seen this year will transform into even more progress next year so that we can be a top 10 program next year. If you had asked me after the UNC game, I would have said hell yeah. Now, I'm not so sure. But I'm still in favor of staying the course w/ CW. And I still think that JC will be a STAR by the end of next year. I think he has all the tools and he's a leader, plus he'll have the best group of receivers in the nation next year. But you're right, it's time to see that talent produce ON THE FIELD. That's on you C-Dub...

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

In my opinion, the two biggest reasons we haven't been able to pull out of this nose dive quicker is the JUCO issue and the redshirt issue. Those are too understated in my opinion. If you lose depth at a position that requires experience (like O line), and you have the luxury to go get a seasoned player out of a JUCO, you are able to fill holes with players that can contribute immediately and have been in a college workout program for one or two years. The junior college system can cure a great many ills for a D-1 program. SC has a few great pipeline junior colleges here in So Cal and I am sure other schools like Bama and Florida do too. ND does not have that luxury.

I also think ND's policy on redshirts can dissuade some recruits, although I can't say for sure. However, if a recruit knew he wasn't automatically guaranteed that fifth year and, on top of that, he knew he would have to graduate in four and be accepted and enrolled in graduate courses to get the fifth year, that might affect his decision. It also prevents the coaching staff from planning on sitting a kid for a year with the hopes of getting some experiences and size on the player before throwing him out there.

Those two factors are major, in my opinion. If ND had been able to go to the junior college ranks to fill out the junior and senior classes the last few years, especially with the linemen, we would not be where we are. I would love to see the stats of how many JUCO transfers all the top 10 teams currently have.

Now, before you all jump on me, I do not want those standards to change. I will sacrifice the ulcers and drinking problem losses can cause in order to have higher standards for our University.

I believe we will get there - maybe not as fast as I hoped, but we will get there.

GO IRISH!!! BEAT NAVY!!!

 

[WaveDomer]

reps... I agree totally, only problem is... if this staff can't get Brady and co. up for the big game, what do we have to suggest they will get this crop up at some point???

"real pickle" says it all...

Actually, I think Brady and Co. were up for that USC game and almost pulled it off. If they had pulled it off it might be a different mindset at ND right now. Maybe a different mindset with coaching too. The players aren't the only ones who need to know they can win.

 

[ACamp1900]

Wait, so you're telling me that you DON'T like watching Allen going down after getting breathed on, or slow-developing pitch plays to our power backs, or JC doing his stare-stare-stare-stare-throw plays, or us ignoring the middle of the field??? Hmmm, you're a weird guy Ace.

I'm hoping beyond hope that the progress that we have seen this year will transform into even more progress next year so that we can be a top 10 program next year. If you had asked me after the UNC game, I would have said hell yeah. Now, I'm not so sure. But I'm still in favor of staying the course w/ CW. And I still think that JC will be a STAR by the end of next year. I think he has all the tools and he's a leader, plus he'll have the best group of receivers in the nation next year. But you're right, it's time to see that talent produce ON THE FIELD. That's on you C-Dub...

lmao at the bold... although going down after getting breathed on is all Robert Hughes in this cats mind...

also on UNC and progress you took the words right out of my mouth... I felt the exact same way but the fact is this team STILL has not won a big game in at least three years... and now after the last two weeks I am starting to believe this team will not have the season we want until they build on a win that defines ND right now... the only game left like that this year is SC... like our chances???

My perspectives have changed a great deal the last month... THIS was the rebuilding year and next year was the future is now year where we start competing with every team we play regardless... not I see next year as just another rebuilding year where we hopefully will win a game or two we can hang a hat on....

 

[ACamp1900]

Actually, I think Brady and Co. were up for that USC game and almost pulled it off. If they had pulled it off it might be a different mindset at ND right now. Maybe a different mindset with coaching too. The players aren't the only ones who need to know they can win.

yeah I agree, but as you said, since then....

tOSU- nope
Michigan- nope
USC- nope
LSU- nope

all blowouts in some regard or another

just like you implied if the illiegal player doesn't perform an illiegal move to push their QB in the aura may be different today, but all that DID happen

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

just like you implied if the illiegal player doesn't perform an illiegal move to push their QB in the aura may be different today, but all that DID happen

I saw Matt Leinart at a Best Buy here near my house a couple years ago and my buddy wanted to go up and say something to him. I just thought it would be hilarious to go up behind him and start pushing him through the checkout line and then just walk off.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I saw Matt Leinart at a Best Buy here near my house a couple years ago and my buddy wanted to go up and say something to him. I just thought it would be hilarious to go up behind him and start pushing him through the checkout line and then just walk off.

And yell "TOUCHDOWN!!!" Freegin LOL

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

In my opinion, the two biggest reasons we haven't been able to pull out of this nose dive quicker is the JUCO issue and the redshirt issue. Those are too understated in my opinion....
GO IRISH!!! BEAT NAVY!!!

Bingo. Incredibly understated by the media as well. I personally know JUCOs that could start in the NFL yesterday, but can't pass a class to save their collective life, and that's why they JUCO.