How Urban Broke Florida Football

ACamp1900

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The funniest part of all his is how many reps i received in this thread all while having no one openly stand with me...

I'll point out one last time... no one hates on Lou Holtz or disavows his reign as head coach... so it's not like I'm talking hypotheticals in total here.
 
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Redbar

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The funniest part of all his is how many reps i received in this thread all while having no one openly stand with me...

I'll point out one last time... no one hates on Lou Holtz or disavows his reign as head coach... so it's not like I'm talking hypotheticals in total here.

Reps=right, and ends justify means- I get it. And did Lou leave the dome tarnished? What did he do that led to a couple of scandals? Although I will agree that he was somewhat pushed out because some didn't like the trajectory of the program and saw problems ahead. Which if you think about it contradicts your point as to what we would allow for BCS titles.
 

ACamp1900

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Reps=right, I get it. And did Lou leave the dome tarnished? What did he do that led to a couple of scandals? Although I will agree that he was somewhat pushed out because some didn't like the trajectory of the program and saw problems ahead. Which if you think about it contradicts your point as to what we would allow for BCS titles.

The reps point... NOT AT ALL.... not even close... just stating how funny it was that I got repped quite a bit while most disagreed with me... it's an odd mix. Second, I never oncce said I feel the ends justify the means... just that the current culture in college football basically abides by that... Please stop with the twisting attempts.


My point was the Holtz era saw lowered admission standards for some players and ended in one of the biggest scandals in ND football history... do we not honor his accomplishments???

in fairness the 88 team was also the only in cfb history to win both the academic national title and the football one...
 
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Whiskeyjack

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You know what, let me clarify everything as easily as possible...

I guess my point is this... while ND is special, the fan base is not... it's just a fan base...

I agree with this. Most of our non-alumni fans, excepting a non-trivial minority who rep ND partly because of its values, are like any other fan-base-- they just want to win. They have very little invested in the other aspects of the University, and they don't have the time or the inclination to dig into the meta-issues facing CFB.

Thus, whenever someone argues that "we [the fans] are better than that," part of me thinks that no, we're largely not.

I think this applies to many of the older alumni as well. Having lived through the glory days, they don't understand why ND can't dominate like it used to. Take NDNation, for instance; that board is probably a decent representation of the older superfan alumnus crowd.

But for younger alumni, I don't think that's the case. The last 2-3 incoming freshman classes weren't even alive during ND's last title, and those who graduated during the last decade (myself included) weren't old enough for it to make a difference. We've known nothing else, so the "win at all costs" mentality is far less prevalent. Then factor in their investment in the school's reputation, and it's pretty obvious that ACamp's generalization doesn't apply to this group.
 

ACamp1900

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I agree with this. Most of our non-alumni fans, excepting a non-trivial minority who rep ND partly because of its values, are like any other fan-base-- they just want to win. They have very little invested in the other aspects of the University, and they don't have the time or the inclination to dig into the meta-issues facing CFB.

Thus, whenever someone argues that "we [the fans] are better than that," part of me thinks that no, we're largely not.

I think this applies to many of the older alumni as well. Having lived through the glory days, they don't understand why ND can't dominate like it used to. Take NDNation, for instance; that board is probably a decent representation of the older superfan alumnus crowd.

But for younger alumni, I don't think that's the case. The last 2-3 incoming freshman classes weren't even alive during ND's last title, and those who graduated during the last decade (myself included) weren't old enough for it to make a difference. We've known nothing else, so the "win at all costs" mentality is far less prevalent. Then factor in their investment in the school's reputation, and it's pretty obvious that ACamp's generalization doesn't apply to this group.

agreed... I do think part of me may also see the So CAL sports culture thing too much... born and raised here shows you one thing...

fans and alums (ND's are no exception from what I have seen) just don't care about anything but being about to talk trash about final scores... and the only time ND fans tend to really care about grad rates is when they use it as a talking point in the same fashion.

but that has been my expereince...

the bolded... well that plays into EXACTLY what made me start this whole debacle to begin with. TOTALLY AGREE
 
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Redbar

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agreed... I do think part of me may also see the So CAL sports culture thing too much... born and raised here shows you one thing...

fans and alums (ND's are no exception from what I have seen) just don't care about anything but being about to talk trash about final scores... and the only time ND fans tend to really care about grad rates is when they use it as a talking point in the same fashion.

but that has been my expereince...

the bolded... well that plays into EXACTLY what made me start this whole debacle to begin with. TOTALLY AGREE

"debacle", good word.
 
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