How Much Has the Defense Improved Under Hudson/Kelly

[General Colon Bowel]

I got bored at work and decided to compare the defense's first 4 games under BVG to the defense's second 4 games under Hudson/Kelly. I thought it could generate some interesting discussion, so I am sharing it here.
(Statistics gathered from cfbstats.com - 2016 National)

 

[jspags10pg]

I know it would still be quite an improvement but I wonder what these numbers would look like without the NC State game included. As much as it helps our defensive numbers look better, that game shouldn't be included in any statistical comparison.

That was closer to water polo than football.

 

[gkIrish]

Yeah it's extremely difficult to make a comparison with the NC St. game and horrendous Stanford offense (WITHOUT MCCAFFREY) included in these numbers.

 

[IrishBroker]

They haven't...they played in a hurricane, and a Stanford team without one of the best offensive weapons in CFB.

Syracuse dropped almost 500 on us and their offense is shit.

 

[NorthDakota]

Defense is clearly playing better. No doubt. Not that they could have been any worse.

 

[ACamp1900]

The tackling has gotten better from a fundamentals standpoint, I think that's very clear just from the eye test... aside from that it's wait and see.

 

[kmoose]

They haven't...they played in a hurricane, and a Stanford team without one of the best offensive weapons in CFB.

Syracuse dropped almost 500 on us and their offense is shit.

Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat.......... new coat, same Pat............ Syracuse is the #5 passing offense in the country. You may think they are a second rate program, but their offense is NOT "$hit", as you asserted.

 

[IrishGlory]

We certainly still have opportunity to improve and are far from where our talent level should be, but to give credit where it is due. These young men are playing much better, especially the D-line and Jarron. Kid is becoming a beast in the middle. Definitely the best player on our team against Miami. I think it's been said that some players mentioned they are no longer "afraid to make mistakes." Was BVG a bully like that?

Sucks that this season has gone the way it has, but I love the fact that so many freshman are getting PT. Certainly bodes well for experience over the next few years.

 

[Luckylucci]

While I think its very valid to discount the numbers to some degree, based on opponents and the NC State game due to weather. I also, thinks it very obvious and glaring, that this defense is just flat out playing better. In almost all areas of the game. Lastly, we are just seeing players play better. Martini, Tranquill, J Jones, Hayes, Trumbetti, etc. All playing better since he left.

There is no way, a BVG led defense to start the year, gives up only 300 yards of offense to Miami. We gave up that many Nevada, and almost 200 more to Duke.

Clearly this is addition by subtraction.

 

[gkIrish]

While I think its very valid to discount the numbers to some degree, based on opponents and the NC State game due to weather. I also, thinks it very obvious and glaring, that this defense is just flat out playing better. In almost all areas of the game. Lastly, we are just seeing players play better. Martini, Tranquill, J Jones, Hayes, Trumbetti, etc. All playing better since he left.

There is no way, a BVG led defense to start the year, gives up only 300 yards of offense to Miami. We gave up that many Nevada, and almost 200 more to Duke.

Clearly this is addition by subtraction.

It is definitely better but I think there is also a chance the players are trying harder solely to impress whoever the DC will be next year (whether it be Hudson or whoever). I think players typically perform better after a coaching change so let's see how they do by the end of the year.

 

[IrishLax]

It is definitely better but I think there is also a chance the players are trying harder solely to impress whoever the DC will be next year (whether it be Hudson or whoever). I think players typically perform better after a coaching change so let's see how they do by the end of the year.

I think it's as simple as attitude and fundamentals. I believe all the "thinking" under BVG killed fundamentals because players were too busy focusing on other things. You can only juggle so many mental balls at a time. Look at Cole Luke in his current role versus earlier in the year blowing coverages and missing tackles left and right. Look at how much faster Tranquill is playing.

As for attitude, Jarron Jones now is completely different than the Jarron Jones we saw in the first third of the season. It's sort of chicken-and-egg but he wasn't getting many snaps, and played inconsistently when given opportunities, and his displeasure with the staff was the worst kept secret at ND. Same applies to a lot of guys... I think there are a lot of guys who still aren't happy and aren't bought in, but I think the general attitude on defense right now is completely different than what we saw earlier in the year. Texas, MSU, Duke... they looked dejected, defeated, lost, and frustrated. Have not seen that in any game since... even with a bad first half against Syracuse, the attitude was completely different and led to rebound in the second half. They actually want to be on the field making plays now.

I don't think it means the "new DC" is doing a "good job" as much as it means that they're no longer actively undermining the players. Every position group is better.

 

[IrishBroker]

I think it's as simple as attitude and fundamentals. I believe all the "thinking" under BVG killed fundamentals because players were too busy focusing on other things. You can only juggle so many mental balls at a time. Look at Cole Luke in his current role versus earlier in the year blowing coverages and missing tackles left and right. Look at how much faster Tranquill is playing.

As for attitude, Jarron Jones now is completely different than the Jarron Jones we saw in the first third of the season. It's sort of chicken-and-egg but he wasn't getting many snaps, and played inconsistently when given opportunities, and his displeasure with the staff was the worst kept secret at ND. Same applies to a lot of guys... I think there are a lot of guys who still aren't happy and aren't bought in, but I think the general attitude on defense right now is completely different than what we saw earlier in the year. Texas, MSU, Duke... they looked dejected, defeated, lost, and frustrated. Have not seen that in any game since... even with a bad first half against Syracuse, the attitude was completely different and led to rebound in the second half. They actually want to be on the field making plays now.

I don't think it means the "new DC" is doing a "good job" as much as it means that they're no longer actively undermining the players. Every position group is better.

I agree with that.

 

[IrishBroker]

Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat.......... new coat, same Pat............ Syracuse is the #5 passing offense in the country. You may think they are a second rate program, but their offense is NOT "$hit", as you asserted.

Look at their schedule.

They are garbage. #5 in passing doesn't mean you are a great passing team....especially if you are behind in a lot of games or play Colgate.


Thanks for playing.

 

[Dizzyphil]

I think it's as simple as attitude and fundamentals. I believe all the "thinking" under BVG killed fundamentals because players were too busy focusing on other things. You can only juggle so many mental balls at a time. Look at Cole Luke in his current role versus earlier in the year blowing coverages and missing tackles left and right. Look at how much faster Tranquill is playing.

As for attitude, Jarron Jones now is completely different than the Jarron Jones we saw in the first third of the season. It's sort of chicken-and-egg but he wasn't getting many snaps, and played inconsistently when given opportunities, and his displeasure with the staff was the worst kept secret at ND. Same applies to a lot of guys... I think there are a lot of guys who still aren't happy and aren't bought in, but I think the general attitude on defense right now is completely different than what we saw earlier in the year. Texas, MSU, Duke... they looked dejected, defeated, lost, and frustrated. Have not seen that in any game since... even with a bad first half against Syracuse, the attitude was completely different and led to rebound in the second half. They actually want to be on the field making plays now.

I don't think it means the "new DC" is doing a "good job" as much as it means that they're no longer actively undermining the players. Every position group is better.

This in a nutshell. I also believe it has a little to do with corner play slightly improving. IF the safety(s) can rely on the corners doing their jobs (the one and only they have to think about) they can cheat a little more helping out in either the run or passing game..... but you hit exactly what I was thinking on the 'over-thinking'....

 

[anarin]

Defense for sure looks better and most notably more confident. The one thing that is weird is that the offense looks like they took a step back.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Imagine how good Max could've been in this system. His whole life may have been different.

 

[NDRock]

Have we really not recovered a fumble?

 

[ACamp1900]

Have we really not recovered a fumble?

It takes a lot of wrong to make a team this talented earn the record they have...

 

[Senoj13]

To me, the biggest difference is no blown coverages. The only remote case was against NCST and it was a penalty for the TE not being eligible. Prior to the firing, completely blown coverages occurred at least twice a game.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Have we really not recovered a fumble?

Not from the other team.

 

[Irish#1]

You have to include the NCS and Stanford games. They were on the schedule. Team doesn't control weather or who is injured. There were, and are other teams playing in crappy weather and against teams with injuries. If you subtract the NCS and Stanford games, you have to look at every other team and remove games played in crappy weather to get a true comparison.

Bottom line.........Defense is improving every week. Things have been simplified and players aren't worried about having mistakes held against them.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

On a somewhat related note, does it make anyone else kind of uncomfortable when they marginalized Hudson during the games as basically just a cheerleader? I don't know what his exact role is, but it kind of sucks for him to be branded like that weekly on national television. That being said, I definitely see an improved speed of play. People are playing football again and playing fast. It's a work in progress clearly, but night and day from the start.

 

[anarin]

Not from the other team.

I clearly remember them recovering one against NC State and someone else (Stanford maybe, it was a run up the middle )

 

[IrishLax]

I clearly remember them recovering one against NC State and someone else (Stanford maybe, it was a run up the middle )

Yeah, they definitely recovered a fumble against NCST, right?

 

[Dizzyphil]

Yeah, they definitely recovered a fumble against NCST, right?

I thought it was two of them.... but, I'm old, losing my memory....

 

[GoIrish41]

I got bored at work and decided to compare the defense's first 4 games under BVG to the defense's second 4 games under Hudson/Kelly. I thought it could generate some interesting discussion, so I am sharing it here.
(Statistics gathered from cfbstats.com - 2016 National)

Ugh! Pretty miffed about the drop in INTs per game!

Seriously though. That chart is pretty conclusive ... BVG was a terrible DC, and our talent has been unleashed to make plays. Clearly it is paying off.

 

[IrishBroker]

On a somewhat related note, does it make anyone else kind of uncomfortable when they marginalized Hudson during the games as basically just a cheerleader? I don't know what his exact role is, but it kind of sucks for him to be branded like that weekly on national television. That being said, I definitely see an improved speed of play. People are playing football again and playing fast. It's a work in progress clearly, but night and day from the start.

At the same time, do you want to make a bigger deal about a guy who is gone at the end of the year?

He is marginal. He is a cheerleader.

Call it what it is. I'm sure he's a great guy and all, but what are they supposed to say? That the worst D in CFB, of a 3-5 team, has their new D coordinator because he's made the dumpster fire a little less flammable?

 

[General Colon Bowel]

Yeah, they definitely recovered a fumble against NCST, right?

You guys are correct. I went back and checked, cfbstats was showing we had 0 fumble recoveries - however, we recovered 2 vs NCST and 2 vs Stanford. That would put us at 1 recovery per game since Hudson/Kelly took over, which would place us 20th nationally

 

[General Colon Bowel]

Yeah it's extremely difficult to make a comparison with the NC St. game and horrendous Stanford offense (WITHOUT MCCAFFREY) included in these numbers.

I agree that the NC St. game makes our defense look a bit better than it is. However the Stanford offense, while absolutely atrocious, actually gained less yards against us than their dead last per game average. So while they're bad, we did make them play even worse than usual.

If you insist on taking out the NC St. game, we are looking at:
4.84 yards per play - 19th nationally
363.67 yards per game - 33rd nationally

So still some marked improvement

 

[koonja]

Does Hudson have a realistic chance to keep this job? I hope not, only because I want a proven/big name that will recruit and we know he'll be solid if nothing else. But does he have an actual chance of winning the job?