How does McNabb trade affect Jimmy's draft position?

DoverShores

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I would love to see him as a 49er, since he now has a chance to fall out of the top 10, but we have bigger needs such as o linemen. Plus he probably won't fall pass Seattle, but if he does he will be in Buffalo. Sucks for him. If he is drafted by the Seahawks the Niners gotta face Clausen, Bradford, and Leinart 2 times each. I like SF's chances.

But still poor Jimmy, oh and Colt McCoy had an interview with the redskins the day after McNabb was traded to Washington.

Me too bro, I'ma Niner fan also. I think we'd have to trade up to do so though, which wouldn't bother me if it's for Jimmy. I was hoping that the Rams would pick Suh and pass on a QB but that's not gonna happen.
 

NDinL.A.

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Sorry LA...but I can see him falling to the second round as well....particularly with the signing of McNabb to Wash. Buffalo may be his last hope. St. Louis will take Bradford, Cleveland isn't interested (thank god...Go Broncos) and beyond that, maybe the Steelers or Minnesota take a flyer, but that's a lot of cash to throw around on a position of strength.....Minnesota not so much as Favre will be gone in the next 11-12 years hopefully ;).

That could happen (I doubt it personally), and I can see why one would say that. The point is the finality of what the guy was saying. The numbers, the facts, and the eyeball test don't bear out what he's saying about Clausen at all. Call him a bad leader or a prick and you have an argument, but to say that the speed of the game is too fast for him and that all he can throw is the fade pass to Tate is insane. He gets with the right team in a good system and he'll be very good...
 

BearGB

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Honestly, I think he will for sure be off the board in the first half of the first round. Jacksonville seems to be a very good possibility for him. Also, as much as I try to rationally convince myself that it won't happen, there is still a small but resistant part of me that says he may go to KC. I know it seems crazy with Cassel's long-term contract. However, go back and watch some of Charlie's post-game press conferences last year. I don't think he believes that Jimmy could have realistically done any better last year. If he has any input, he may be trying to force Scott Pioli's hand. We shall see..
 

chadder20

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Horrible. Do you even watch NFL football? ND football?

1. He might not have Tate to go and get the ball, but he'll have other guys that can. In case you didn't know...the fade pass is very prevalent in the NFL. Too much so IMO, but it's definitely there.

2. So let's say they take away the fade. Clausen also throws the out pattern on the money. The deep-out...the hardest throw in football, he throws on the money. Here's what one scout who charted him said:



3. He is incredibly accurate, much more so than Brady Quinn, who had his troubles in those areas (see: USC game, 2006). 4 INTs in a pro-style offense against 28 TDs??? That's unreal!

4. Pro-style offense, so he's more pro-ready than any of the other top QBs coming out. He knows how to come from under center, read a defense, and make the throw. None of the other top guys can say that.

5. No 5 yard cushion? Are you serious? Have you seen the (seemingly) prevent defenses in the NFL? Some NFL teams will play bump and run (like teams did early in the season - in which Clausen killed those defenses), and some will play off (like teams did later in the season - and Clausen shredded those defenses too). Clausen had no problems with either of those defenses.

6.

Where do you come up with this stuff? How are you so certain? Watch the film. You're talking about 2008 Clausen. 2009 Clausen progressed through his reads a lot of the time. That is unless you think Weis drew up plays specifically for Parris, Kamara, and Allen even though he had Tate and Floyd the last few games of the year. Allen, Ragone, and Parris combined for 13 catches vs UCONN. Allen and Kamara combined for 10 vs Pitt. Guys not named Tate and Floyd combined for 18 catches vs Navy. Do you really think Weis designed 18 pass plays for those guys, or do you think Clausen had to go through his progressions?

7. Clausen wouldn't be a 1st round pick if GMs thought he 'were never going to amount to anything.' To deal in such absolutes is short-sighted IMO. I can see why outsiders think he won't be good, but for a ND fan who saw him play all year to deal in such absolutes smacks of someone who actually didn't watch the games or is just trolling. I know you're not a troll, but damn, I can't believe you said all those things with a straight face.

I'm not saying he is a bad QB, I am just saying, in my thoughts, he is not going to be a good QB in the NFL. He made some great strides last year and I think thats great. I do watch ND football and I am an avid fan. Im just not in on all the hype ND fans are giving JC...Just an opinion
 

Allocco 121975

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LA You make an interesting case , however the Connecticuts. Pitts and Navy teams are not exactly NFL caliber.
 

NDinL.A.

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LA You make an interesting case , however the Connecticuts. Pitts and Navy teams are not exactly NFL caliber.

Absolutely. However, you can say that for almost all college players. Go look at the teams Joe Flacco played in college. Or Ben Roethlisberger. Or Drew Brees. Or Philip Rivers. Or Matt Ryan. I could go on and on. All of those guys transitioned to the pros very well, despite playing less than stellar comp in college. Either you have it or you don't.

And chadder20, your opinion about Jimmy not being a good pro is fine...you could very well be right. I'm no NFL scout, and even those guys screw up half the time (see: Russell, Damarcus and George, Jeff and Leaf, Ryan). My only beef was the finality of it, as if he was pre-ordained to be a back-up QB, and the reasoning behind your opinion, which I think was extremely flawed. Your opinion is one shared by many fans, even some ND fans. It's all good...
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

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Absolutely. However, you can say that for almost all college players. Go look at the teams Joe Flacco played in college. Or Ben Roethlisberger. Or Drew Brees. Or Philip Rivers. Or Matt Ryan. I could go on and on. All of those guys transitioned to the pros very well, despite playing less than stellar comp in college. Either you have it or you don't.

And chadder20, your opinion about Jimmy not being a good pro is fine...you could very well be right. I'm no NFL scout, and even those guys screw up half the time (see: Russell, Damarcus and George, Jeff and Leaf, Ryan). My only beef was the finality of it, as if he was pre-ordained to be a back-up QB, and the reasoning behind your opinion, which I think was extremely flawed. Your opinion is one shared by many fans, even some ND fans. It's all good...

LA....I don't think his "possible slide" has anything to do with ability once you get past Jax. It's going to come down to need versus investing a pantload into a qb when set there by the drafting team. There I'll agree with you and Chadder is off his rocker. He's going to make a fine qb in the pros, be it a eventual starter or backup. I'm just not sure people are willing to dole out the big kielbasa for a guy who may not fill an immediate need. Let's face it....when you draft a guy #1, you pretty much expect him to come in and fill a roll immediately. Outside of the top ten, it's not likely to happen.
 

kmoose

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LA You make an interesting case , however the Connecticuts. Pitts and Navy teams are not exactly NFL caliber.

True. It's not like his 24/43, 260 yard, 2TD, 0INT day against USC means anything, huh?
 

TDHeysus

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LA You make an interesting case , however the Connecticuts. Pitts and Navy teams are not exactly NFL caliber.

its division 1 talent is it not? then its all good. Even against inferior talent you can still fine tune your skills. footwork, wr progression, decision making, accuracy, reading defenses...all of those skills can be worked on no matter what talent your playing against.

If I had to boil it all down, and say what really makes me think that JC is going to succeed in the NFL, I would say his footwork and decision making are skills that cant be masked, or cheated. most college QB's dont even really work on true footwork, or decision making because they dont run the type of offense that requires those skills. most college QB's dont get that type of training till they hit the NFL. Clausen not only has that training already, but he already developed his technique/talent. Now he needs to continue to refine his current skillset. most dudes coming out of college still have to delvelop that skillset to begin with. in that respect he is ahead of the game.

28TD's to 4INTs is an exceptional ratio....whatever talent that is against, you have to agree that it denotes good decision making (throwing it away when needed, taking the sack when needed, making the proper reads, making the proper throw, not taking chances, etc)
 
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dshans

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An interesting angle on talk of Clausen's position in the draft. This is an article by Richard H. Thaler in the business section of the April 4th edition of The New York Times:

"As March Madness winds down, it’s time to turn our attention to the next major sports event on the calendar. That’s right, the National Football League draft, now a three-day extravaganza with the first round broadcast in prime time on April 22.

Spring is a fitting time for the draft, because hope springs eternal for fans of downtrodden teams. The rules of the draft specify that teams can choose according to their won-lost records from the previous year, with the worst teams choosing first. The idea is to give the bad teams the early picks to help them become winners.

As it turns out, however, the draft does not play the Robin Hood role particularly well. Indeed, I have written a paper, recently revised, on this subject with Cade Massey, a professor at the Yale School of Management. We found that the teams choosing early in the draft generally don’t, in fact, get the players that provide the most value per dollar. Our paper is titled “The Loser’s Curse” because we discovered that the first pick in the draft is, on average, the least valuable in the entire first round.

That surprising result has implications not only for football, but also for any domain where organizations try to select talent, whether C.E.O.’s or their own “rookies” — newly minted graduates.

Our analysis pivots around the idea that while there is an active trading market for N.F.L. draft picks, the market places too high a value on picking early. A team that wants to select a player before its turn can offer another team a deal in order to “trade up.” Over time, teams have come to agree on the price of such trades by resorting to a table now universally known as the Chart, which assigns a value to each pick in the draft. Alas, the Chart has the “wrong” prices.

If the market for draft picks were “efficient,” meaning that the prices reflected intrinsic value, the resulting value for a team that trades up for a higher pick should be equal to the value of the picks it gives up. The price of moving up is steep: to move from the 11th pick to the 5th pick, for example, a team would have to forfeit its second-round pick as well. To be worth it, the player taken just six picks earlier would have to be a whole lot better — because both of the players given up could have become stars, too.

How confident should a team be that this early pick is better? Suppose we rank all the players at a given position — running back, linebacker, etc. — in the order they were picked in the draft, then compare any two in consecutive order on the list. What do you think is the chance that the player picked higher will turn out to be better — as judged, say, by number of games started in his first five years in the league?

If teams knew nothing, the answer would be 50 percent, as it would be for flipping a coin. If they had perfect knowledge, the answer would be 100 percent. Go ahead, make your guess.

The answer is 52 percent — an outcome that is barely better than that of a coin flip. This means that although the value of players declines throughout the draft, quality declines more slowly than compensation — players picked early are very highly paid. As a result, the first pick in the draft has often provided less value to his team, in performance per dollar, than the last pick in the first round (the one awarded to the Super Bowl winner). In other words, in the world of the N.F.L. draft, the rich get richer.

The league has helped to create this problem in the way it pays rookies. A special salary cap applies to rookies and, unlike the overall salary cap the league uses, it varies across teams. The teams with the first picks get more money to spend on signing their draftees. Since agents know how much a team has been allocated to sign the first-round pick, they demand that amount for their player. As a result, compensation for draft picks declines almost in lock step; the first player gets the most, then the second pick, and so on, with the last player taken in the first round getting only 25 percent of the amount awarded to the first pick.

It turns out that the N.F.L. and the players’ union are trying to renegotiate their collective bargaining agreement. One topic reported to be on the bargaining table is shifting some of the pay away from early draft picks.

The owners and players should find common ground on this issue, because it makes absolutely no sense to be giving so much money to unproven rookies, many of whom turn out to be busts. By reducing the premium paid to the highest draft choices, the league could restore the redistributive goal that the draft was created to achieve. And veteran players would probably agree with the principle that eight-figure salaries should be reserved for players who have already proved themselves on the field.

So if teams’ ability to select players is only slightly better than flipping coins, should we expect that corporations can do any better in picking their chief executives?

After all, it’s probably easier to predict the performance of football players than of C.E.O.’s. Athletes perform the same job in a very public forum for years, and all aspects of their job are subject to wide critical evaluation. They are also given extensive physical and mental tests. (Yes, it is important for a football player to be smart — and several years of college don’t assure that.)

On the other hand, chief executives hired from outside a particular company have been performing mostly in private. And I’ve never heard of a prospective C.E.O. being given an I.Q. test — or having to run the business version of the 40-yard dash (perhaps a press conference?).

So maybe companies shouldn’t pay big bucks in the desperate hope of getting the equivalent of a Peyton Manning, who was the first overall pick in 1998 and, of course, has proved his superstar value. Instead, maybe they should dig around for a replica of Tom Brady, who was the 199th pick in the 2000 draft and has gone on to play in four Super Bowls, winning three."

I have high hopes for Mr. Jimmy (it's a reference to The Rolling Stones' "You Can't Always Get What You Want") as I do for all ND "puppies."* Not being a football wonk or on the staff of any NFL team, I'll sit, spectate and await.

*I tip my tam to The Kneutered One with thanks.
 
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irishandy

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I would like to see Clausen go to Seattle at the #6 pick, they also have the 13th pick and if he is still around they could also draft C.J. Spiller. Clausen and Spiller would be a nice addition. I also think it would be interesting to see what Carroll could do w/ Clausen. To be honest, I want Clausen under center at ND in 2010.
 
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I don't think there is anyway the Seahawks take Jimmy. I am 100000% against that. I have been a Seahawk fan for 24 years, and live 50 miles away from Seattle and we just threw away draft picks on the horrible Charlie Whitehurst. We dropped 20 spots in the 2nd round, gave a 3rd round draft pick and gave charlie 8-10 million over 2 years for him to come to Seattle. I 10000% disagree with getting a guy who can't throw TDs and too many Ints. He did at Clemson and then did in the nfl preseason and then was 3rd string for every year in the NFL. He wasn't good at Clemson and wasn't in the NFL. Pete C make a bad choice. I'd rather have a guy like Jimmy who is pinpoint accurate, in a prostyle offense, throws TDs, throws yards, and yes is cocky. Good stuff.

I have been a ND fan longer than a Seahawk fan, but I can't see them picking Jimmy. It sucks to be a fan of both on this one.
 

kmoose

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Yeah Thats interesting , but who won the game ? You can have all the stats festivals you want, I want wins instead !

Weren't you the same one who said:

LA You make an interesting case , however the Connecticuts. Pitts and Navy teams are not exactly NFL caliber.

NDinLA's "case" had to do with Jimmy's completion percentage (a stat), what the "experts" have said about him, and how many different receivers he completed passes to (another stat). You played the "well, against lousy teams" card. When I point out that Clausen had a very good game, statistically, against USC.......you switch to the "who won the game?" card. Weak stuff, McFly.
 

NDinL.A.

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Weren't you the same one who said:



NDinLA's "case" had to do with Jimmy's completion percentage (a stat), what the "experts" have said about him, and how many different receivers he completed passes to (another stat). You played the "well, against lousy teams" card. When I point out that Clausen had a very good game, statistically, against USC.......you switch to the "who won the game?" card. Weak stuff, McFly.

Yeah, he's still playing that weak card. We got into it about that very same thing on another Jimmy thread, and my whole point was that I guess we should all be pissed that Jimmy couldn't throw for 28 TDs against only 4 picks AND tackle AND stop the other team's offense on 3rd down AND make field goals AND coach the team. What a loser!

Allarco is right about the USC game. Remember when USC's TE was dragging Harrsion Smith 30 yards down the field on that huge 3rd down play? All Jimmy's fault. Remember when USC's wide receivers embarrassed our DBs by making them turn the wrong way time after time? I couldn't believe Jimmy couldn't stop them!!!

What Allarco doesn't get is that football is a team game. Yes, the QB is a huge part of winning, but when you put up 38 points against Stanford and you still lose, how is that on the QB??? When your team is consistently unprepared and/or unmotivated, that's on the coach, not the QB. Allarco doesn't get that. For him to put this past season on the shoulders of Jimmy is ludicrous. Dan Fouts and Dan Marino never won a super bowl, but Trent Dilfer did. In Allarco's mind, Trent Dilfer was a much better QB than the other 2. Ridiculous...
 

bigedefense

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I'm not gonna lie, I'm still upset at Clausen and Tate for bolting. Say what you want about stock being high etc etc...they could have really done something this year. Jimmy came to ND to return them do glory, win a nat'l title. Finish the job man-at least give it a shot. I ain't over it...what does it have to do with Jimmy getting drafted, I dunno? I guess deep down if he slips I can think, ha-there so much for stock...

Sorry I've been holding that in for awhile :) I feel better, if I get blasted for not being 'supportive' so be it.

I hate to say it, but I agree with you. Not wanting to sound sour here, but I believe in finishing what you started. I want and hope JC succeeds and does at the next level what he did last year. He is a great Qb. Not my first choice for Sunday School teacher, but hey, he isn't getting drafted for that. He will, IMO, be a Hall of Famer when his pro days are over. I just wish he would have finished his commitment to ND.
 
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Allocco 121975

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Yeah, he's still playing that weak card. We got into it about that very same thing on another Jimmy thread, and my whole point was that I guess we should all be pissed that Jimmy couldn't throw for 28 TDs against only 4 picks AND tackle AND stop the other team's offense on 3rd down AND make field goals AND coach the team. What a loser!

Allarco is right about the USC game. Remember when USC's TE was dragging Harrsion Smith 30 yards down the field on that huge 3rd down play? All Jimmy's fault. Remember when USC's wide receivers embarrassed our DBs by making them turn the wrong way time after time? I couldn't believe Jimmy couldn't stop them!!!

What Allarco doesn't get is that football is a team game. Yes, the QB is a huge part of winning, but when you put up 38 points against Stanford and you still lose, how is that on the QB??? When your team is consistently unprepared and/or unmotivated, that's on the coach, not the QB. Allarco doesn't get that. For him to put this past season on the shoulders of Jimmy is ludicrous. Dan Fouts and Dan Marino never won a super bowl, but Trent Dilfer did. In Allarco's mind, Trent Dilfer was a much better QB than the other 2. Ridiculous...


You bring up Trent Dilfer and say he is in my mind ? Nice try.

I never brought up those guys and it is a poor deflection on your part.

Jimmy has had 3 potential 1st round draft choices to throw to. he in games against ranked teams was only fair, no matter what stats you want to throw out or blame the defense mode.

He is prepared to run a PRO STYLE OFFENSE ?

That is Kool Aid drinking of the finest kind .. ALL TEAMS RUN A PRO STLYE OFFENSE!

CW was 2 years away from the PRO STYLE and I am sure with all the work he did at Notre Dame ..he wasn't checking all Pro Teams for their changes and modifications in STYLE and or personel.

College QBS have to physically ready to lstart learning no matter what style of SYSTEM they play in college. Did you ever see JC come back against a team like Matt Ryan did against # 4 VA TECH ? Ryan did not have the luxury of recievers like Clausen did , but he lifted that team on his back and won against a far more talented and higher ranked team.

So next time you criticize a Coach Gruden , remember he has won a Super Bowl as a HEAD Coach and Not an OFFENSIVE Co-Ordinator like CW.

By the way the Eagles traded Donovan McNabb so that they wouldn't have to face the fact that the Redskins were trying to work up in the draft and get Bradford. Better to face McNabb for 3 or 4 years tha to have Bradford and Shannahan for 10 years.

Just go look at the numbers Jimmy posted against the 4 ranked teams he played and tell me how overwhelming he was !

By the way did you play at ND and what year did you graduate from the University?



.
 
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TDHeysus

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That is Kool Aid drinking of the finest kind .. ALL TEAMS RUN A PRO STLYE OFFENSE!

ever hear of the west coast offense? are you saying that west coast and pro style is the same? do you know the difference?

you know, just because NFL players are professional athletes, that doesnt mean they run a pro-style offense, haha. but you knew that already...

...By the way the Eagles traded Donovan McNabb so that they wouldn't have to face the fact that the Redskins were trying to work up in the draft and get Bradford. Better to face McNabb for 3 or 4 years tha to have Bradford and Shannahan for 10 years....

the eagles traded mcnabb to the redskins, because the raiders had the best offer on the table, and McNabb did not want to go to the Raiders (certainly, no one blames him). The Eagles (Reid) did McNabb a favor by not banishing him to OAK, so much so that they traded him to a division rival. its called respect. Andy Reid gave McNabb to WSH out of respect for McNabb.

Do you think the Rat(shanahan) sees McNabb as a long-term solution?
 
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Allocco 121975

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ever hear of the west coast offense? are you saying that west coast and pro style is the same? do you know the difference?

yes I do. So whats your point? Pro Offenses are fluid works in progress each season. Ever heard of the Wildcat? And I don't mean Kentucky !

you know, just because NFL players are professional athletes, that doesnt mean they run a pro-style offense, haha. but you knew that already...

OK then Guarantee that Clausen will be drafted by a PRO STYLE TEAM !



the eagles traded mcnabb to the redskins, because the raiders had the best offer on the table, and McNabb did not want to go to the Raiders (certainly, no one blames him). The Eagles (Reid) did McNabb a favor by not banishing him to OAK, so much so that they traded him to a division rival. its called respect. Andy Reid gave McNabb to WSH out of respect for McNabb.

Oh so it was all about respect then? The Eagles wern't interested in their best interests?

I guess they don't worry about money either...Its a business and any attempt to mask it as a some kind of fraternity is wrong. They got rid of him for reason other than Loyalty!

Do you think the Rat(shanahan) sees McNabb as a long-term solution?

No! They need offensive line help more than they need a rookie QB . They will address that first and get someone down the line.

Now back to the Kool Aid drinking. No one can stand any kind of criticism here .Whats wrong afraid of the truth?
 

TDHeysus

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...the Wildcat, rofl. what a joke. no NFL team that has a stud QB will run the Wildcat. it makes no sense, why take your best player off the field?

No team that runs the Wildcat has ever won a dang thing...any wildcat playoff teams out there? any wildcat super bowl winners? your not gonna see it, no matter how you think it wins regular season games. The fact of the matter is, MIA is the only NFL team that has had any consistant success with it; coincidently they havent had a healthy QB worth a crap in awhile.

The Wildcat is an offensive package, not an offense. Mentioning the wildcat in a conversation about West Coast or Pro style, tells me that you dont know the difference.

remember the Run and Shoot? (that was an offense, much like West Coast, and Pro Style is an 'offense') It morphed into whats now called the Spread offense and is all but completely wiped out of the NFL, it only exists in college. You can argue that a 5 receiver set in the NFL is a 'Spread package' or 'Run and Shoot package' but by no means is it the offensive scheme run by NFL teams. The Run and Shoot was really only successful on the Houston Oilers when Warren Moon was QB; like the wildcat, other teams tried to mimick its success, only to abandon it later. The Wildcat will end up the same way, all but completely gone from the NFL, only to exist in college. its a fad.

You think the Rat would have pulled John Elway out of a playoff/super bowl game to run the wildcat? (Rat/Broncos ran Pro Style offense)
Would Bill Walsh have pulled Montana out to let Roger Craig run the Wildcat? (Walsh/49ers ran West Coast offense)
 
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Allocco 121975

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...the Wildcat, rofl. what a joke. no NFL team that has a stud QB will run the Wildcat. it makes no sense, why take your best player off the field?

No team that runs the Wildcat has ever won a dang thing...any wildcat playoff teams out there? any wildcat super bowl winners? your not gonna see it, no matter how you think it wins regular season games. The fact of the matter is, MIA is the only NFL team that has had any consistant success with it; coincidently they havent had a healthy QB worth a crap in awhile.

The Wildcat is an offensive package, not an offense. Mentioning the wildcat in a conversation about West Coast or Pro style, tells me that you dont know the difference.

remember the Run and Shoot? (that was an offense, much like West Coast, and Pro Style is an 'offense') It morphed into whats now called the Spread offense and is all but completely wiped out of the NFL, it only exists in college. You can argue that a 5 receiver set in the NFL is a 'Spread package' or 'Run and Shoot package' but by no means is it the offensive scheme run by NFL teams. The Run and Shoot was really only successful on the Houston Oilers when Warren Moon was QB; like the wildcat, other teams tried to mimick its success, only to abandon it later. The Wildcat will end up the same way, all but completely gone from the NFL, only to exist in college. its a fad.

You think the Rat would have pulled John Elway out of a playoff/super bowl game to run the wildcat? (Rat/Broncos ran Pro Style offense)
Would Bill Walsh have pulled Montana out to let Roger Craig run the Wildcat? (Walsh/49ers ran West Coast offense)

NO KIdding . You miss the point and don't answer the questions , you only deflect by posing other questions.

The PRO STYLE CHANGES WITH EVERY TEAM ! Situations demand it. Does the EAGLES present west coast offense mimic the 49ers of the 90s West Coast O?

So Charlie was busy studying PRO STYLE OFFENSES and the Changes for the 2 years Before JC so he would be able to prep him for the NFL.

So you know so much , how is the PRO STYLE OFFENSE the same with all the teams that use it? How is the WEST COAST the same with all the teams that use it !

The point is JC is not the sack of diamonds you guys want him to be and maybe he will succeed , but it doesn't look like it now.

By the way taking notes with Gruden asking him questions was cute. Like he really wanted to listen to Gruden.
 

NDinL.A.

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You bring up Trent Dilfer and say he is in my mind ? Nice try.

I never brought up those guys and it is a poor deflection on your part.

Jimmy has had 3 potential 1st round draft choices to throw to. he in games against ranked teams was only fair, no matter what stats you want to throw out or blame the defense mode.

He is prepared to run a PRO STYLE OFFENSE ?

That is Kool Aid drinking of the finest kind .. ALL TEAMS RUN A PRO STLYE OFFENSE!

CW was 2 years away from the PRO STYLE and I am sure with all the work he did at Notre Dame ..he wasn't checking all Pro Teams for their changes and modifications in STYLE and or personel.

College QBS have to physically ready to lstart learning no matter what style of SYSTEM they play in college. Did you ever see JC come back against a team like Matt Ryan did against # 4 VA TECH ? Ryan did not have the luxury of recievers like Clausen did , but he lifted that team on his back and won against a far more talented and higher ranked team.

So next time you criticize a Coach Gruden , remember he has won a Super Bowl as a HEAD Coach and Not an OFFENSIVE Co-Ordinator like CW.

By the way the Eagles traded Donovan McNabb so that they wouldn't have to face the fact that the Redskins were trying to work up in the draft and get Bradford. Better to face McNabb for 3 or 4 years tha to have Bradford and Shannahan for 10 years.

Just go look at the numbers Jimmy posted against the 4 ranked teams he played and tell me how overwhelming he was !

By the way did you play at ND and what year did you graduate from the University?



.

First thought is...wow.

It's obvious you have no clue when it comes to this stuff, so let me go Denzel on you and talk to you like you are a 5 year-old.

1. You bring up all the time that it's on the QB to win games by himself. So yes, Trent Dilfer won a SB, and Dan Marino and Dan Fouts didn't. By your reasoning, Dilfer was a better QB than Marino. Only guys like you and Skip Bayless think that way. Sad.

2. Yes, he is a prepared to run a pro-style offense. I don't even get what your argument is here. Bradford, McCoy and Tebow all ran the spread...JC ran a pro-style offense and knows how to take a snap under center, read a defense in a split second, and make a throw ON THE MONEY. And unlike the other 3, he has proven he can do it in a game. So yes, that is a huge advantage, and frankly it's troll-like for you to downplay that advantage and talk shit about him for something that is absolutely true.

3. You don't even realize what a hypocrite you're being. First, you bad on Jimmy for not being able to win games all by himself like Matt Ryan who had a real college coach, and in the very next sentence you rip CW and praise Gruden. Dude, make up your friggin' mind.

4. Oh, and 3 ranked teams JC faced (Stanford, Pitt, USC) - 8 TDs, one INT, and averaged almost 300 yds and over 65% completion percentage. You were saying?

5. I didn't play for ND. What position did you play for ND?

6. Face it, your argument is flawed. You want to rip on one of the few bright spots on ND, which, I'm sorry, is troll-like. It's fine to be critical...JC is not prefect and Lord knows ND wasn't good last year, but just make sense while being critical. Otherwise, you come off like a jack-ass and a troll...
 

kmoose

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Now back to the Kool Aid drinking. No one can stand any kind of criticism here .Whats wrong afraid of the truth?

And what is the truth? The truth is that Clausen has as much potential as any other QB in this draft.

Does this mean that he is a lock, to have a great NFL career? Of course not. I'm not drinking any Kool-Aid, here. But you seem to be drinking alot of Haterade. That was my only point, in my post............. you said that Clausen didn't play well against ranked teams. Well, he did. And with a toe injury that probably should have been operated on. So putting up solid numbers, against solid defenses, while injured, is a bad thing how, again? You have a point, that Clausen didn't put the team on his shoulders and lead them to a win over a top opponent. I believe that the same thing was said about a guy from Tennessee named Manning. He's not bad, so why is it that you seem to think it is a lock, that Clausen will be bad?
 

Allocco 121975

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First thought is...wow.

It's obvious you have no clue when it comes to this stuff, so let me go Denzel on you and talk to you like you are a 5 year-old.

1. You bring up all the time that it's on the QB to win games by himself. So yes, Trent Dilfer won a SB, and Dan Marino and Dan Fouts didn't. By your reasoning, Dilfer was a better QB than Marino. Only guys like you and Skip Bayless think that way. Sad.

2. Yes, he is a prepared to run a pro-style offense. I don't even get what your argument is here. Bradford, McCoy and Tebow all ran the spread...JC ran a pro-style offense and knows how to take a snap under center, read a defense in a split second, and make a throw ON THE MONEY. And unlike the other 3, he has proven he can do it in a game. So yes, that is a huge advantage, and frankly it's troll-like for you to downplay that advantage and talk shit about him for something that is absolutely true.

3. You don't even realize what a hypocrite you're being. First, you bad on Jimmy for not being able to win games all by himself like Matt Ryan who had a real college coach, and in the very next sentence you rip CW and praise Gruden. Dude, make up your friggin' mind.

4. Oh, and 3 ranked teams JC faced (Stanford, Pitt, USC) - 8 TDs, one INT, and averaged almost 300 yds and over 65% completion percentage. You were saying?

5. I didn't play for ND. What position did you play for ND?

6. Face it, your argument is flawed. You want to rip on one of the few bright spots on ND, which, I'm sorry, is troll-like. It's fine to be critical...JC is not prefect and Lord knows ND wasn't good last year, but just make sense while being critical. Otherwise, you come off like a jack-ass and a troll...

So lets see, Ad Hominem attacks in your first sentence. You missed the manners course in O'Shaughnessy Hall using that tactic. I guess that your degree is incomplete.

Can you tell me what a pro style offense is? NONE of you have ever explained it here, but you sure chant it as your mantra.

So no college QBs can Take a snap from under center? Do you see what a moronic statement that is? None of them can read a defense? What do they do, check Madden before they break the huddle?

I am hypocritical and you haven't answered the questions I asked. The fact that VA Tech was #4 and shut down BC all game wasn't a factor..the coach was the difference in that game???? What happen to the genius of Frank Beamer? The fact is that Ryan lifted a fair BC team on his back.

So Charlie wasn't a REAL COLLEGE COACH ? Thas beautiful ! need I repeat all the advantges he had having developed Tom Brady...Blah blah blah.. By the way Stanford, Pitt and USC weren't top 10 ten teams like VA Tech was.

Yeah maybe he was a bight spot , but he wasn't anything near what he could have been at another school.

Well then you don't know squat about being a ND football player if you haven't been on Cartier field or the Stadium.

My flaw is not agreeing with every blind spot in any of your ad hominem attacks.

I am sure that was explained to you in Freshman seminar !

Now take a word of advice from a troll, as you feel so good about saying, Jimmy Clausen leaves a lot to be desired in a QB.

Now if he is such a dead lock to be a top 10 choice then why wasn't he invited to New York for the draft? Could teams needs and his weaknesses be the reason ?

Respectfully yours !
 

NDinL.A.

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Can you tell me what a pro style offense is? NONE of you have ever explained it here, but you sure chant it as your mantra.

That's easy. A pro-style offense is a general term, just as the 'spread offense' is a general term. You'll generally see a more balanced attack in which the play0action is used a lot more. The set will usually include 2 Wrs, 2 RBs and a TE, but of course several sets are used. A pro-style offense requires linemen that can both pass block and run block, as the RBs will run through the tackles a lot more than in other offenses. You don't see the same type of play-action in a spread that you see in a pro-style set. So yes, coming under center in college, dropping back in a 3 step, 5 step or 7 step drop and making split second reads is a HUGE advantage. Everyone with talent looks great in shorts...it's much different when you have to do it under game conditions. This is not to say the others can't or won't pick it up, but there's no question JC is more NFL ready than the others.

So no college QBs can Take a snap from under center? Do you see what a moronic statement that is? None of them can read a defense? What do they do, check Madden before they break the huddle?

Where did I say that? Why do you just make sh*t up? I said the other 3 QBs that are vying to be the top QB in this draft along with JC came from the spread. Please follow along. Thanks. And again, read above about reading defenses.

I am hypocritical and you haven't answered the questions I asked. The fact that VA Tech was #4 and shut down BC all game wasn't a factor..the coach was the difference in that game???? What happen to the genius of Frank Beamer? The fact is that Ryan lifted a fair BC team on his back.

I've answered all your questions...you ignore all of my points. But whatever. Let's talk about your BC Eagles. 'Fair' BC team? Are you serious? Are you talking about the team that started 8-0 and was ranked in the top 10 after that VT win? That was a 'fair' team? The team that finished with 11 teams? That BC team? Hmmmm, sounds a lot more than a 'fair' team. And let's look a little closer at Matt Ryan's performance. You say he 'put his team on his back'. Maybe, but why didn't post the score of that game? It was 14-10. JC would have probably died of shock had his defense held a good team to 10 pts. NEVER happened. You put JC with that defense and yeah, he wins some games. Unfortunately, as I keep trying to tell you, it's a TEAM game, something you just have no clue about.

And let's look at the next time BC played VT, THAT VERY SAME YEAR. Matt Ryan gave led his team a whopping 3 fgs (his defense gave him a TD), threw 2 INTs with zero TDs, and they lost 30-16. I guess he sucks too huh? See, again, it goes back to the TEAM. It's a TEAM game. Yes, the QB plays a huge part, but as your boy Trent Dilfer proved, the QB needs help. He needs a defense, which Jimmy never had. Yes, he had weapons, and guess what, he used them! He put up huge numbers! He led the team to FOUR 4th comebacks, and brought them back against every single team they played, despite not having a defense whatsoever. Only trolls like you expect him to tackle, pass defend, and kick field goals.

I ask you this...imagine if JC had Matt Ryan's defense? Then he could throw for under 50%, with 2 INTs, just like Ryan did when he made that comeback against VT.


So Charlie wasn't a REAL COLLEGE COACH ? Thas beautiful ! need I repeat all the advantges he had having developed Tom Brady...Blah blah blah.. By the way Stanford, Pitt and USC weren't top 10 ten teams like VA Tech was.
Are you drunk? First, you rip CW, then you defned him for being a real college coach, which clearly he wasn't wired for. And again, look at the numbers Matt Ryan had against VT. 4 INTs, 2 TD's. Under 50% passing. But he had something JC never had...a defense! Unfortunately, it's like talking to a brick wall with you.

(Oh, and one more thing...USC was ranked in the top 10 when they played ND, but they didn't finish there. And neither did your VT Hokies that year. Sorry to burst your bubble.)


Yeah maybe he was a bight spot , but he wasn't anything near what he could have been at another school.

Huh? MAYBE he was a bright spot? And what the hell does him playing at another school have to do with anything? But thanks for proving my point Einstein. You're right, had he played for SC, with a defense, he'd have a bunch more wins. But he wouldn't have learned half of what he learned by being a ND student, both about life and football and becoming a man.

Well then you don't know squat about being a ND football player if you haven't been on Cartier field or the Stadium.
Great point. I'll write that down.

Now take a word of advice from a troll, as you feel so good about saying, Jimmy Clausen leaves a lot to be desired in a QB.

QB scouts and coaches around the nation disagree with you, but OK, we'll listen to you and Todd McShay. Got it.

Now if he is such a dead lock to be a top 10 choice then why wasn't he invited to New York for the draft? Could teams needs and his weaknesses be the reason ?

Ummm, hey genius, he was invited, HE DECLINED. A lot of potential 1st round picks declined the invitation. But thanks for playing.

That was fun, tearing up a troll on a Saturday morning while the wife is asleep. Yeah, I read your old posts, and you've been ripping JC since you signed up. What a waste of time, coming on another team's forum and making yourself look like a fool. Enjoy your Saturday...


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